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Indian Labor Migrants in Lebanon: A Comparative Study of Migrants from Punjab and Tamil Nadu. Seema Gaur, Prem Saxena


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1 minute ago, dallysingh101 said:

Actually, try thinking about it. The brits did this to a certain group amongst us to devastating effect for a protracted period. They are on record saying they thought these people were docile and slow to learn. Maybe becoming engrossed/lost in perpetual self-adulation (via folksongs, modern songs, movies, and even back handed 'compliments' in written works), makes certain people blind to reality, and thus easy to manipulate? It's like keeping them permanently suspended in a false reality whilst you make moves to finally finish them off. So it would be in every enemy of the panths interest to encourage and facilitate the 'culture' (in a very loose sense of the word) that helps conjure this scenario/mindset. 

This would explain A LOT of what we are seeing.

And just to juxtaposition the current projection of a certain people with an older one, from within Sikh sources - have a look at a certain number of chariters that explicitly cover this community, and just see for yourself just how starkly different the Sikh representations are to the modern stuff. One is rooted in ground level reality and constructive criticism, the other is plain 'giving the pump' as Panjabis say.      

They still boast about how the Brits thought of them as a martial race(to fool them into fighting their wars) and to this day they continue to die in wars for others instead of doing something for their own people. India does the same when they want Sikhs to die on the border for them but unfortunately this group wants to so badly prove their worth to others that they will die for others instead of being loyal to their community.

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Just now, proudkaur21 said:

They still boast about how the Brits thought of them as a martial race(to fool them into fighting their wars) and to this day they continue to die in wars for others instead of doing something for their own people. India does the same when they want Sikhs to die on the border for them but unfortunately this group wants to so badly prove their worth to others that they will die for others instead of being loyal to their community.

The same group then boasts about being part of a diminishing 1.6% community and making way more contributions than their population. Literally destroying themselves to please others. Ravi singh also belongs to such groups. No Muslim will care if Hindus hate them or not because they know they have power. Powerless Sikhs are always begging left and right for the approval of others.

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23 minutes ago, proudkaur21 said:

Have you observed this kind of materialism among pakistani punjabis? Since growing up I have noticed it among sikhs around me even the well off ones , this never ending greed for more and more and judging others based on how much expensive things they have. I observed it among my relatives all the times. This extreme jealousy at the thought of another family member buying something expensive. I dont understand this. I noticed this when my mom used to gather around with the family ladies and they would constantly stare at each other's clothes and purses and what not. Even growing up all I saw in the music videos was talks about cars, alcohol and expensive things. Just too much greed in the punjabi community. I see people going into debt to buy expensive cars just to show off. Such childish behaviour.

Their micro-managing religion is a stop-valve that curbs much of the excess that we succumb to. BUT there's aspects to their belief system which leads them down other rabbit holes that thankfully we mostly seem to have avoided (i.e. widespread sexual immorality sanctioned by a supposed divine figure).

I'm not saying Pakistanis don't get enticed by shiny baubles like ostentatious houses, cars, gadgets, etc., but it's obviously not at the level that we're motivated to obtain these things.

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56 minutes ago, proudkaur21 said:

They still boast about how the Brits thought of them as a martial race(to fool them into fighting their wars) and to this day they continue to die in wars for others instead of doing something for their own people.

 India does the same when they want Sikhs to die on the border for them but unfortunately this group wants to so badly prove their worth to others that they will die for others instead of being loyal to their community

They completely ignore the complete martial race theory, where they are also deemed to be docile and naturally subordinate to authority, and incapable of higher level organisation. 

But maybe this gross characterisation has some basis in reality, hence the constant need to be validated by outsiders?

Plus it should be patently obvious to even the dimmest amongst us now: they clearly don't see other Panjabi people outside of their biraderi as 'their own people'. Once we all get this, things will fall in place. That's why most aren't 'loyal to their community' as you mention above, because what you consider 'the community' is not what they consider as their own community.     

Jagjit Singh went into detail about these characteristics in his book. I have to revisit that soon.  

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1 hour ago, proudkaur21 said:

The same group then boasts about being part of a diminishing 1.6% community and making way more contributions than their population. Literally destroying themselves to please others. Ravi singh also belongs to such groups. No Muslim will care if Hindus hate them or not because they know they have power. Powerless Sikhs are always begging left and right for the approval of others.

How much of the 1.6 percent is destroying themselves to please others?

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1 hour ago, MisterrSingh said:

Their micro-managing religion is a stop-valve that curbs much of the excess that we succumb to. BUT there's aspects to their belief system which leads them down other rabbit holes that thankfully we mostly seem to have avoided (i.e. widespread sexual immorality sanctioned by a supposed divine figure).

I'm not saying Pakistanis don't get enticed by shiny baubles like ostentatious houses, cars, gadgets, etc., but it's obviously not at the level that we're motivated to obtain these things.

The Pakistanis do enjoy themselves and are not averse to materialism.

There have been any conversations amongst our Sikh women how Pakistani women wearing lots of gold. 

Pakistanis also now drive better cars. You do tend see brand new Land Rovers parked ouside some chicken shop.

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49 minutes ago, Ranjeet01 said:

The Pakistanis do enjoy themselves and are not averse to materialism.

There have been any conversations amongst our Sikh women how Pakistani women wearing lots of gold. 

Pakistanis also now drive better cars. You do tend see brand new Land Rovers parked ouside some chicken shop.

Do we flaunt it more with the "balle, balle" mentality while they're content to just own those things?

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13 minutes ago, MisterrSingh said:

Do we flaunt it more with the "balle, balle" mentality while they're content to just own those things?

Depends which branch of us who does this more.

People who tend to be more recently arrived are more materialistic or people who have never seen or had consumer goods in their lives are far more materialistic. 

Those amongst our people who have lived with materialism for decades tend to be less balleh balleh. 

Like the bhangra music videos. In the old days of the 80's and 90's, twhen it was the UK that dominated the scene you would not hear about the flaunting of this wealth.

Now bhangra music scene is dominated by Punjab and recent Punjabi migrants to Keneda  and it is the particular demographic that flaunts the wealth and does the balleh balleh.

It is this particular section that dominates the narrative particularly in the diaspora. 

But I find that we should be careful not to necessarily extrapolate this section of our community on the rest of us.

There is a lot of jealousy within the Pakistani community, it's just that we don't hear about it.

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1 hour ago, Ranjeet01 said:

Depends which branch of us who does this more.

People who tend to be more recently arrived are more materialistic or people who have never seen or had consumer goods in their lives are far more materialistic. 

Those amongst our people who have lived with materialism for decades tend to be less balleh balleh. 

Like the bhangra music videos. In the old days of the 80's and 90's, twhen it was the UK that dominated the scene you would not hear about the flaunting of this wealth.

Now bhangra music scene is dominated by Punjab and recent Punjabi migrants to Keneda  and it is the particular demographic that flaunts the wealth and does the balleh balleh.

It is this particular section that dominates the narrative particularly in the diaspora. 

But I find that we should be careful not to necessarily extrapolate this section of our community on the rest of us.

There is a lot of jealousy within the Pakistani community, it's just that we don't hear about it.

I think the trend of British-born Sikh guys marrying Punjabi brides has died down now. It needed to happen. Those brides of the 90s (later, mothers) passed on that greedy mentality (having come from literal huts and villages) to their offspring, which is probably why much of that generation (now in their late teens / early 20s) are still expounding caste-related nonsense, and seem to be completely unhinged when it comes to accumulating objects and flashing their wealth. The fathers (Gen X-ers) are clueless British fudhoos as one would expect, so most of this behaviour is inherited from the overly bhukki mother.

The post-2005 Indian arrivals who came via Italy, Portugal, Spain, Bulgaria, etc., are something else, lol. They have a commendable work ethic (to a degree), but they have zero desire to pay their dues. Very impatient. They see what our elders worked 30,40,50 years to build, and these clowns want it all in 3 years. They have no idea how our elders put in the graft and sacrificed so much. In some ways their greed is greater than anything we've ever seen over here. Their entitlement is off the scale. But, strangely, they're also a little more aware of the Indian state's shenanigans, and therefore slightly more politically aware. But it's all very superficial and ultimately it's still that old Punjabi thing of waiting for Superman to descend from the clouds and provide a solution to the bigger problems. Their religiosity is also a load of posturing. It's very insincere.

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    • Please don't look for medical advice on forums like this. Go and see a doctor, and I mean a proper doctor, not some desi quack. 
    • Don't worry about the children. As a respected and fun uncle you will have more influence on them than their mother and her superstitious beliefs. Also the kids will be growing up in the west, attending gurudware which will make then more like us westerners. Also when hanging out with the future kids you can build tolerance in them by inocukating them against the pandit stuff. Like pandits think they can predict human behavior from planets that is the fake study of astrology. Don't disparage the mom though when discussing these things. Just say our Gurus have taken us out of this mess of fear and connected us directly with the source. And say we are lucky to be born in the age of science. We can look for explanations etc Keep the peace in the family. Your brother does need to speak up. But the rest of the family should not. So just let it be. We don't need broken homes or high divorce rates in the community. Sabar is a good quality. Let the mother do the hard work of nurturing the kids. Then you take over the kids mental, spiritual education.  Also don't teach the kids to go against the mother.  Teach the kids to humor her.  Like she wants you to wear a red thread on Tuesdays, how funny.  Try it kids what's the harm its useless.   Panjabis are our biggest asset.  They are good at making money and having kids.  Most of us in the west ain't getting married or have depression or 1 kids max before we done because we have lame jobs or are not willing to work hard.   Let the panjabis multiply, we can recruit kids from that during camps etc
    • Go to a doctor and have tests done. Seems like a hormonal issue.  You are not producing Testosterone is my guess . Hopefully due to a reversal cause like tumor in your pituitary gland. Or your body making to much of another hormone like prolactin.    
    • Look, the same points you made about Gujarati Kenyans, I can say the same thing about Sikh/Punjabi Kenyans. They were more educated on average than immigrants direct from India.  I worked with a Gujarati from India and he told me that Gujaratis are not known for being educated.  Compare Gujaratis from Kenya to Punjabis from Kenya and also Gujaratis from India to Punjabis from India. 
    • Stop marrying these Punjabans and shipping them over to the West. There's no excuse for it in this day and age. You're not getting an obedient, dutiful, demure female from over there. They don't respect Western born guys unless they're complete gundeh, in which case they bring a who!e new set of problems to the table. The common religion between the two parties is a misleading trait. It's irrelevant. Cultural values and upbringing is where it's at. Baba and dera culture has spiralled out of control in Punjab. It's a miracle to find a family that isn't into this stuff. Your brother needs to make her see sense. He needs to lead and be worth following. He needs to stop hiding behind mummy and daddy, and grow a pair so that the wife's previous beliefs, whatever they are, she willingly discards in favour of her husband's values. A woman automatically does this when she perceives her man is worth deferring to. If she's playing up, she's detected a weakness, and she's exploiting it. So the problem of her running around after pandits is irrelevant. The issue is that your brother has been unable to put an end to this bukwaas for the sake of stabilising his married life and home. That's his fault.
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