Karmic Theory In Sikhism

[besoft]

ਕਰਮੀ ਆਵੈ ਕਪੜਾ ਨਦਰੀ ਮੋਖੁ ਦੁਆਰੁ ॥

[/color][By the karma of past actions, the robe of this physical body is obtained. By His Grace, the Gate of Liberation is found.]

I refer to the above line of Jap ji sahib. Shall be grateful if the meaning of this line is clarified by some of the members.My specific questions a re:

1.What are past action as referred to above.?

2. How do we know as what we are doing shall lead to good Karmas ?

3.Also kindly opine as to what is the theory of Karma in 'sikhism'. [Aape Bejeay Aape He khah!]

Does it mean that the Karmas of past life will result in the present life or the past actions in this life shall determine our destiny.?

4. Is there any 'Tuk' as to when the good karmas fructify.? Please quote from bani as i am not aware of any such 'Tuk'.

Thanks in advance

and

WJkK WjkF

[besoft]

Respected Dhan ji

Thx for your response and explaining that there is another possibility in arriving at the meaning of 'Karmi', As a side note I am putting down the meaning of 'Karmi' as is given in Mohan kosh.

You are right that Karmi can be Grace of God only. However, there appears to be nothing wrong in the translation. I am not a religious scholar and hence shall like to enter into this.

SGGS Gurmukhi-Gurmukhi Dictionary ਕਰਮ ਅਨੁਸਾਰ, (ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਦੀ) ਬਖ਼ਸ਼ਸ਼/ਰਹਿਮਤ/ਮਿਹਰ/ਕਿਰਪਾ ਨਾਲ, ਅਮਲਾਂ ਦਾ ਲੇਖਾ/ਸਦਕਾ, ਚੰਗੇ ਭਾਗ ਨਾਲ, ਕਿਸਮਤ ਨਾਲ, ਸੰਸਕਾਰਾਂ ਕਾਰਨ।

You have still to answer the basic questions of post-1.

WJkk WjkF

[Bijla Singh]

1.What are past action as referred to above.?

Past actions are actions done by a person in previous lives according to which our happiness, sorrow, financial situation, type of life, physical health etc is determined but all of this can be changed by following Guru’s hukam.

2. How do we know as what we are doing shall lead to good Karmas ?

Only Gurbani tells what is good karma. Following Satguru’s hukam is the best of best karma which is to japp naam and do seva.

ਹਰਿ ਕੀਰਤਿ ਸਾਧਸੰਗਤਿ ਹੈ ਸਿਰਿ ਕਰਮਨ ਕੈ ਕਰਮਾ ॥

3.Also kindly opine as to what is the theory of Karma in 'sikhism'. [Aape Bejeay Aape He khah!]

Does it mean that the Karmas of past life will result in the present life or the past actions in this life shall determine our destiny.?

Karmas are hard to explain and only a true brahmgyani can know it fully (if that). We can try to understand what it is. In simple terms, Hukam of Waheguru is running the show (world). This Hukam is simply rules by which the world and its beings operate. Hukam says that in order to come to this world there has to be a union of a man and a woman. The same Hukam (rule) says that whatever you do is what you get. You do good things you get a reward, you do bad things you get punishment. Only human beings use karmas and make new ones which is why humans are obligated to live moral way of life. We are put in a situation based on past karmas but what we do next makes new karma. We have the choice and based on how we think and behave determines our destiny and next karma. Hukam says that one must have a naam from Satguru to get salvation. So according to hukam, what we have today is based on what we sowed in the past. What Sikhi offers is what makes it unique and superior to Hinduism, Buddhism and Jainism. It offers a solution to burn/reduce the karmas and that is by following the Satguru. Naam has the power to alter our destination, way of life, end our misery and burn the karmas.

ਗੁਰ ਕਾ ਸਬਦੁ ਕਾਟੈ ਕੋਟਿ ਕਰਮ ॥੩॥੧॥

ਸੁਖੁ ਨਾਹੀ ਰੇ ਹਰਿ ਭਗਤਿ ਬਿਨਾ ॥

So if our destiny is to live a life of poverty, we can japp naam and change everything. Just look at how many poor orphans learn gurbani kirtan and then come to USA and support their family. Look at how many blind people are living a good life by doing kirtan. It is the power of Gurshabad. Although many do it for financial reasons but still their lifestyle improves. This alone shows that if we submit to Gurbani and do kirtan out of love we will surely get much more than just money, cars and palaces.

4. Is there any 'Tuk' as to when the good karmas fructify.? Please quote from bani as i am not aware of any such 'Tuk'.

I think I have addressed this. By following the Satguru, one can start seeing the difference instantaneously. If one still suffers then that is the reduced effect otherwise a person would’ve been much more miserable.

[N30S1NGH]

Check out the post by singh132:

http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?s=&amp...st&p=203922

Above concept - karma concept in Gurmat written by singh132 is shared by various eastern religions as well , check this out:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Three_kinds_of_karma

[besoft]

Karma-analysis

1.First Karma

I am thankful for your crisp and a clear reply. I do agree with you to the extent the following line conveys. I am sorry that I have not carried out 'sabad –wise' analysis ,however, if need be the same can be done under your guidance.

ਕਰਮ ਧਰਮ ਤਤੁ ਨਾਮ ਅਰਾਧੂ ॥

ਕਰਮ ਧਰਮ ਅਨੇਕ ਕਿਰਿਆ ਸਭ ਊਪਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਅਚਾਰੁ ॥੨॥

However, in bani we come across some 'tuk's that would clearly mean that one does not have any free will to alter the karmas as God is the architect of our destiny and is the causes of all the karmas. I am quoting few 'tuk's that should reinforce the concept.

ਕਰਮ ਸੁਕਰਮ ਕਰਾਏ ਆਪੇ ਇਸੁ ਜੰਤੈ ਵਸਿ ਕਿਛੁ ਨਾਹਿ ॥

[God Himself is the Cause of causes, good and bad-no one has control over these things.]

ਆਪੇ ਕਰੇ ਕਰਾਏ ਥਾਪੇ ॥

[He Himself acts, and causes others to act. He Himself establishes.]

2.Free will and Karmas from 'Dhur'

The second important aspect is that we have some karma from 'dhur' i.e from the beginning i.e. when the God began this play and He ,in his wisdom, prescribed some initial karmas on the mortal and the same karmas continue with us in the form of actions and reactions. This also stands to logic as without the first Karma there cannot be the subsequent Karmas. From where did this First Karma come into being when we got separated from the Lord in the form of elements containing some divinity of Him i.e pure consciousness.

How can one perform the second and subsequent karmas when the first karma was absent so far as the human beings are concerned?

The first karma should be the one that was given to us as per our destiny. This line, itself, shows that we had some pre-ordained destiny since beginning and we have been going on the cycle of incarnations on account of this karama that has been pre-ordained from 'Dhur'

This line brings for the another proposition that human beings have little free will.

ਮਿਲੁ ਪੂਰਬਿ ਲਿਖਿਅੜੇ ਧੁਰਿ ਕਰਮਾ [173-4]

By one's karma and pre-ordained destiny, they are met.

ਪੂਰਬਿ ਕਰਮਿ ਲਿਖਿਆ ਧੁਰਿ ਪ੍ਰਾਨੀ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥[199-19]

Perfect karma is the mortal's pre-ordained destiny.

[the translation of the above 'tuk' is slightly off as the translator has not interpreted 'dhur' correctly.Further 'Purab' has also not been correctly translated.[Purab=ਪਹਿਲੀ ਭਾਵ ਰਜ਼ਾ ਤੋਂ, ਧੁਰੋਂ, ਮੁੱਢ ਤੋਂ]

Two questions that strike at the moment are:

• Do we have any free will?
  
• From where did this First karma come from.?
  

I tend to believe that the cycle of incarnations are also pre-ordained for us and even nam jap is also pre-ordained from 'dhur'.

Let us continue.

ਅਖਰ ਕਰਮ ਕਿਰਤਿ ਸੁਚ ਧਰਮਾ [ang261]

[From the Word, come religious rituals, karma, sacredness and Dharma.]

Thus from the 'word' came karma that I shall tend to translate as the 'First karma' [for the time being]. Again we get an allusion to 'dhur' in the following 'tuk' as well.

ਨਾਨਕ ਤਿਸੁ ਮਿਲੈ ਜਿਸੁ ਲਿਖਿਆ ਧੁਰਿ ਕਰਮਿ [ang 274]

O Nanak, he alone obtains it, whose karma is so pre-ordained. ||5|

[The translation goes off here as well as 'dhur' has not been correctly translated here]

In the end I shall close with the following line that is elf explanatory i.e the Mortal is just a helpless creature and is living at HIS grace and He shall bless us all as and when our 'First Karma' shall get translated into Good Karmas with HIS Nadar and blessings and we do not have any free will at all.

ਧੁਰਿ ਕਰਮੁ ਜਿਨਾ ਕਉ ਤੁਧੁ ਪਾਇਆ ਤਾ ਤਿਨੀ ਖਸਮੁ ਧਿਆਇਆ ॥

[Only those whose karma You have pre-ordained from the very beginning, O Lord, meditate on You.]

Yes, I do agree with you that we remain in cycle of incarnations till HE so desires. The question that give rises to is ' do we have 'free-will'. Even earning good deeds are also pre-ordained and we, of our own, are not capable of doing anything at all. Everything boils down to HIS 'mehr'.

jyhy krm krwey krqw dUjI kwr n Bwly ] (581-9, vfhMsu, mÚ 1)

[He does those deeds which the Creator Lord causes him to do; he attempts no other actions.]

ਉਪਾਇ ਕਿਤੈ ਨ ਪਾਈਐ ਹਰਿ ਕਰਮ ਬਿਧਾਤਾ

In nut-shell we do not have free will at all.

It is HIS game show and Guru ji's Mehr can guide us as stated and explained by you. The Karmas [First] were ingrained in us when we emerged as a separate 'soul' or 'consciousness'. We shall be in the incarnations till HE wants us or till we actually are blessed with devotional love, fear of God and above all faith in HIM and love for HIM.

ਆਪਿ ਮਿਲਾਇਅਨੁ ਸੇ ਮਿਲੇ ਗੁਰ ਸਬਦਿ ਵੀਚਾਰਿ ॥ [They alone are united, whom the Lord unites with Himself; they contemplate the Word of the Guru's Shabad.]

[in essence:there is no free -will hence there cannot be any scope of doing Karam as per own will.]

And,Of course, Naam jap and Simran , as already stated by you , can erase the past deeds if He blesses us with HIS grace and reconfirmed by the following 'tuk'

ਕਿਰਤ ਕਰਮ ਨ ਮਿਟੈ ਨਾਨਕ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮ ਧਨੁ ਨਹੀ ਖਟਿਆ ॥੧॥

[The karma of their past deeds cannot be erased, O Nanak, if they have not earned the wealth of the Lord's Name. ||1||]

'Bhul Chuk Mauf' as I am learning and that is a very slow process for me. Kindly correct me. I shall be grateful if you could very kindly opine on the question no.1 and 2 that has been converted into .. as above.May be some software tricks.

Wjkk WjkF

Note-I have taken the translations from Srigranth.org

[dhan_teri_sikhi]

In our past lives we were donkeys, snakes, pigs and birds etc so we have to eradicate all this bad animal Karma in one life! but i heard a Amritdhari gets 10,000 more chances WOW

When we are doing Simran and Paath all this Karma comes together in one go inside you and burns away. But when we go out somewhere the Karma is building again. So Gurbani is the way to control it.

[besoft]

1.In our past lives we were donkeys, snakes, pigs and birds etc so we have to eradicate all this bad animal Karma in one life! but i heard a Amritdhari gets 10,000 more chances WOW

2.When we are doing Simran and Paath all this Karma comes together in one go inside you and burns away.

Kindly support with the help of bani only. That would be very helpful to us. Kindly quote from some reliable and authentic source instead of hearsay.Please refer 1 and 2 marked in the post.

3.Also kindly confirm if the karmas of animals are also considered while authoring pre-ordained destiny for them.

4. You have also to answer the question raised in the above post.Kindly look into it and pl. help. It is a humble request only.

[besoft]

ਬੈਰਾੜੀ ॥

Bairaaree, Fourth Mehl:

ਜਪਿ ॥

Meditate, O mind, on the immaculate, formless Lord.

ਸਦਾ ॥

Forever and ever, meditate on the Lord, the Giver of peace; He has no end or limitation. ||1||Pause||

ਅਗਨਿ ॥

In the fiery pit of the womb, when you were hanging upside-down, the Lord absorbed You in His Love, and preserved You.

ਸੋ ॥੧॥

So serve such a Lord, O my mind; the Lord shall deliver you in the end. ||1||

ਜਾ ॥

Bow down in reverence to that humble being, within whose heart the Lord, Har, Har, abides.

<a class="dict" href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B9%E0%A8%B0%E0%A8%BF" onmouseover="ddrivetip('iHar /i   Diamond', 250)" ;="" onmouseout="hideddrivetip()">

• By the Lord's Kind Mercy, O Nanak, one obtains the Lord's meditation, and the support of the Naam. ||2||5||[ang 720]
  
  

[Bijla Singh]

What I have written may not be 100% correct but I am fully confident that karmas can be reduced through Guru’s Naam. This does not mean humans have the power to do whatever they want or change their karmas but it is the power of Naam which makes the change. What humans can do is “Uddham”. We can do Uddham to get up at Amrit vela and do Uddham to japp naam. A true Sikh never says “he is” the one who is doing it but gives credit to Waheguru and thanks him for giving him Uddham. This saves Sikhs from having ego which ultimately stops one from reaching Waheguru.

ਕਰਮ ਸੁਕਰਮ ਕਰਾਏ ਆਪੇ ਇਸੁ ਜੰਤੈ ਵਸਿ ਕਿਛੁ ਨਾਹਿ ॥

[God Himself is the Cause of causes, good and bad-no one has control over these things.]

ਆਪੇ ਕਰੇ ਕਰਾਏ ਥਾਪੇ ॥

[He Himself acts, and causes others to act. He Himself establishes.]

I think you are misunderstanding the message of these shabads. If you read the entire shabads you will understand that they do not support your assertion. I do not want to discuss them in great details but look at the first shabad. It says that Waheguru is the one who gives birth (life) to a person and then gives him limited amount of time to live, gives him mother and father and gives him karmas (based on his previous life) according to which the person lives his life etc. Waheguru alone is the creator of everything. One can easily say that it was the blood of mother and sperm of father that created the life in mother’s womb. Would that contradict the Shabad that says Waheguru has created life? No because Gurbani says that Waheguru’s Hukam is doing everything and it is the hukam that has established the rule for humans to exist. I hope you understand my point. Second shabad’s main focus is on Guru. Shabad says that through Guru one does good actions, goes to sat sangat and gets to know and reaches Waheguru but all of this is created by Waheguru himself. In other words, Waheguru has established the rule that one must go through Satguru in order to become one with Him. He has caused this (ਕਰੇ) to exist and he himself has established this rule (ਕਰਾਏ ਥਾਪੇ).

If you still insist that humans do not have a little bit of free will then that destroys any moral way of life. Thieves, robbers, rapists, murderers etc will blame God for causing this and not themselves. No one should go to hell because it is God that did all those sinful acts and not humans because they had no free will. This doesn’t fit well in Gurmat. By living according to Gurmat one understands what is right and wrong and then attains salvation by japing naam but this way has been created by Waheguru.

As far as “Mehar” or grace of Waheguru is concerned you must specify how you define it. In my opinion, grace of Waheguru is the blessings of naam. According to Gurbani:

ਅਪਨੀ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾ ਜਿਸੁ ਆਪਿ ਕਰੇਇ ॥ ਨਾਨਕ ਸੋ ਸੇਵਕੁ ਗੁਰ ਕੀ ਮਤਿ ਲੇਇ ॥੨॥

and

ਪਾਇਆ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਗੁਰਿ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾ ਕੀਨੀ ਸਚਾ ਮਨਿ ਵਸਾਇਆ ॥

So receiving naam is receiving mehar. There is no other type of mehar. One may thank Waheguru for His mehar after winning a lottery or a successful heist but according to Gurbani receiving Naam is the true mehar which happens through Satguru. Waheguru has written karmas and He himself can change them by giving Naam through Panj Pyare. It is utterly foolish to believe that receiving Amrit and following rehat of Guru Sahib is of no importance because whatever is written will happen. Satguru has the power to change that. It was handful of Sikhs who overthrew the mighty mughals so who is to say that humans have no free will otherwise India would’ve stayed under Mughal rule till eternity. Nothing in this world is static. This is a dynamic world and so are our karmas.

This reminds me of a sakhi of a woman who had no child and went to Guru Hargobind Ji to receive the blessings of a child. Guru Sahib was riding on a horse when the woman approached Guru Sahib and requested to bless her with a son. Guru Sahib stated that it was not written in her karmas. She humbly replied “Satguru Ji, if you didn’t write me a son in the karmas, then you can write them now.” Guru Sahib was so pleased that He blessed her with 7 sons. Another sakhi is of two friends, one was a thief and one a gursikh. Thief finds a gold coin in a pot full of coals while the gursikh gets a thorn in his foot. They go to Guru Ji to find out why a thief was rewarded but a gursikh suffered a pain. Guru Sahib revealed that the thief had good karmas and he was destined to find pot full of gold coins but since he became a thief he burnt up his good karmas and all the gold became coal and only one coin remained which would’ve become coal had he carried his actions further. The gursikh had too much bad karma from the past and he was destined to be hanged but since he started going to sat sangat his bad karmas were destroyed and all of his punishment of hanging was reduced to pain of a thorn. Such is the affect of sangat. Good and bad actions alter our destination and this is the way Waheguru has created for us. Karmas cannot be avoided but can be reduced to where we don’t even feel their affect.

I can go on and on but I hope you see my point. When my father took Amrit all he had was two kacheray. He went to accompany gursikhs in Nihung Dals and then went to learn Gurbani from Sant Kartar Singh Ji. It was the power of naam and sangat of true gursikhs that we have everything a human can wish for. Our bad karmas quickly vanished when my family came to house of Satguru.

Where did the karma start? I believe no one can clearly answer that. It started when the creation began and no one knows when that is. You can say the earth is 4 billion years old and that is when the life began but according to Gurbani, this is only one out of billion of times the earth has been created and destroyed. So karma is as old as creation. If we go back all the way to the beginning when Nirgun became Sargun, that is when karma started and as humans took birth and lived their lives their created their karmas. Amount of karmas a human creates in one life cannot be lived or exhausted in a lifetime. I have heard from gursikhs that when everything gets destroyed and then recreated, karmas do not start from the beginning again but start from where they stopped when everything was destroyed by Waheguru. If you can tell when the creation was created and when the first human was created you can tell when first karma was created but Gurbani says:

ਪਿਤਾ ਕਾ ਜਨਮੁ ਕਿ ਜਾਨੈ ਪੂਤੁ ॥

From Gurbani we know karmas exist and it can be changed through Naam. I don’t have to know when it started but I know it exists. One must have to be one with Waheguru to understand it better than ordinary humans but even then he won’t be able to understand it 100%. There is no limit to creation and the creator. You are free to believe whatever you want (which is free will). Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

[kam1825]

Please listen to the Karam Katha by Baba Hari SIngh Ji on www.gurmatveechar.com it is 14 hours long, it is difficult to understand as it goes into depth with vedant but it will explain all