besoft
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I am grateful to all of you for taking the pains for espressing their views on Dasam Dwar. It is clear that the tenth door is within the body. Whether it is physically presennt of not is a matter of significance.
The tenth gate is hidden[ang 1031] and it appears that the tenh door is hidden in the body else the above tuk @ ang 1031should not have mentioned. I am not very clear about it.
Secondly ,it has been stated by some of my friends that it is the place of soul as well. Naam abhiyaas makes one realize this door.
What is naam abhiyaas? Is the japping 'waheguru' and reading and reciting equivalent to 'Naam abhiyaas.'? Kindly quote with thelp of Bani.
thx.
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The unstruck sound current of the Shabad vibrates and resounds in the Tenth Gate; the Ambrosial Naam trickles down there. ||2||[1002-6]
The Dasm dwar appears in the Granth sahib at many places. I shall be garteful if members can throw some light on this.
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- The Primal Lord, the Architect of Destiny, formed your form; He also burdened you with egotism.
- He alone is born and dies; He alone comes and goes. ||3||[ang 999-18]
Kindly explain the meaning of the above lines.
0 - The Primal Lord, the Architect of Destiny, formed your form; He also burdened you with egotism.
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This a second question regarding the meaning of Rama.
Rama has been stated in Granth sahib as symbolic representation of Akaal. However, in the following tuk the meaning is not in alignment with sikh philosophy.
Kindly enlighten.!
ਜਸਰਥ ਰਾਇ ਨੰਦੁ ਰਾਜਾ ਮੇਰਾ ਰਾਮ ਚੰਦੁ ਪ੍ਰਣਵੈ ਨਾਮਾ ਤਤੁ ਰਸੁ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਪੀਜੈ ॥੪॥੪॥ जसरथ राइ नंदु राजा मेरा राम चंदु प्रणवै नामा ततु रसु अम्रितु पीजै ॥४॥४॥ Jasrath rā▫e nanḏ rājā merā rām cẖanḏ paraṇvai nāmā ṯaṯ ras amriṯ pījai. ||4||4||
My Sovereign Lord King is Raam Chandra, the Son of the King Dasrat'h; prays Naam Dayv, I drink in the Ambrosial Nectar. ||4||4||
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What would be the meaning of the following line.The question is poised as the translation puts Brahma as the creator and this is not as per accepted sikh philosophy.
ਸੁਅਸਤਿ ਆਥਿ ਬਾਣੀ ਬਰਮਾਉ ॥ सुअसति आथि बाणी बरमाउ ॥
Su▫asaṯ āth baṇī barmā▫o.
I bow to the Lord of the World, to His Word, to Brahma the Creator.
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Thanks Veer ji for clarifying that for us Guru is Sabad Guru only and that is equivalent to God only and one is able to experience him by constant practice of bani by implementing it in real life.
I do post my doubts in this thread and shall be very grateful if these are attended to in future as well.
I thank you again.
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There is no contextual meaning of bani. It is same in each word, each line, each page. Even if you shuffle the banis, the meaning is same. But you need gurujis mehar to know this, otherwise its only mystical words.
As for who Guru Nanak was please read Aarta of Guru Nanak by Baba Sri Chand ji. Babaji wrote it after he had a vision of who Guruji really was during deep and prolonged Samadhi.
There has to be a meaning to the bani else persons like me should stop understanding bani and concentrate on 'Waheguru' and carry on.This shall be the sum total of sikhi. However, it is not to state that the significance of the fourth state i.e above Trigunas. If one attain that state there is not much scope for bani as in that case the person stands understanding the message.
If Bani is not for an ordinary person it shall not be profitable for illeterate or literate. True Grace of God is required in almost every act of the human being. But then understanding the meaning of Tuk or a line is well within the scope of being a sikh.Frankly speaking, I shall not read another Teeka to understand what Guru ji was. He has stated that in Mool Mantra.
Instead of saying 'there is no contextual meaning of bani' ,it should have been more appropriate if you could have expanded on the meaning that you should have assigned to the above 'tuks'. I do refer to the Teeka of Dr. Sahib singh and post a question when the Teeka stop answereing the question.
Yes, I shall try to read that you have suggested.Kindly give me the source or link,if the Aarta is available on the internet.
some musings and ramblings!!
Thanks and regards.
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sqguru syiv gux inDwnu pwieAw iqs dI kIm n pweI ] (32-9, isrIrwgu, mÚ 3)
Serving the True Guru, one finds the Lord, the Treasure of Excellence. His Value cannot be estimated.
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The above 'tuk' states that by serving the 'true guru' one finds the God i.e Akaal. Who is the true guru for us.it is the 'sabad' the SGGS. What would be the contextual meaning of this. I shall be grateful for the response of the respected members.
Regards.
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A very nice effort PJS ji. Thanks for wonderful exposition. Kindly keep your efforts.I want to take the print out of this but am not sure as to how to do this. Any help.?
Regards.
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ਮਨਮੁਖਿ ਮੋਹੁ ਗੁਬਾਰੁ ਹੈ ਦੂਜੈ ਭਾਇ ਬੋਲੈ ॥
मनमुखि मोहु गुबारु है दूजै भाइ बोलै ॥
Manmukẖ moh gubār hai ḏūjai bẖā▫e bolai.
The self-willed manmukh is trapped in the darkness of emotional attachment; in the love of duality he speaks.
ਦੂਜੈ ਭਾਇ ਸਦਾ ਦੁਖੁ ਹੈ ਨਿਤ ਨੀਰੁ ਵਿਰੋਲੈ ॥
दूजै भाइ सदा दुखु है नित नीरु विरोलै ॥
Ḏūjai bẖā▫e saḏā ḏukẖ hai niṯ nīr virolai.
The love of duality brings pain forever; he churns the water endlessly.
In the above tuks we have a reference to duality, a term that has appeared at many places in the Granth Sahib. What exactly is the meaning of duality. I shall be very grateful if light is thrown by the members.
Thx.
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I came across a tik' explaining the purpse of Ongkar.I am sharing it with the sangat for a clarification.
One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:
From Ongkaar, the One Universal Creator God, Brahma was [929-17 and subsequently lines follow]
He kept Ongkaar in his consciousness.
From Ongkaar, the mountains and the ages were created.
Ongkaar created the Vedas.
Ongkaar saves the world through the Shabad.
Ongkaar saves the Gurmukhs.
WE have in Bani
'Naam de Dhaarey sagle Jant'.
and many others as well that state to the effect that everything is created from Naam. What is the equivalence of Naam and ongkaar.Kindly think it over and give your valuable opinion.
Regards
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ਨਉ ਸਰ ਸੁਭਰ ਦਸਵੈ ਪੂਰੇ ॥
no sar subhar dhasavai poorae ||
By practicing control over the nine gates, one attains perfect control over the Tenth Gate.
19 Raamkalee Guru Nanak Dev
Thanks Brother for clarification.
I have above line for some clarification.I presume that 9 gates refer to indriyan etc. How to control these.Kindly explain as to how to achive perfect control over these and as to what is the Tenth gate. Is it physically present in us or is it a metaphoric use.A detailed reply would be very helpful.
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Without meeting the True Guru, the Naam cannot be found.[946-8]
As per the above the Naam is to be given by the GOD i.e satguru. Wepeactice on the word 'waheguroo' and 'satanaam waheguru'. Are these the Naam for sikhs. If so what is the exact relevance of the Tuk.
Kindly explain.
Regards
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- That humble being who is imbued with the Immaculate Naam,[943-16]
- O Nanak, is himself the Primal Lord, the Architect of Destiny
Shall be grateful if sangat can expand on this Tuk.I am not able to place the entire sabad in Gurmukhi due to Browser problem and I using windows 98 as operating system.Inconvenience is regretted.
Kindly help.
Thx and regards
0 - That humble being who is imbued with the Immaculate Naam,[943-16]
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I came across a tik' explaining the purpse of Ongkar.I am sharing it with the sangat for a clarification.
One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:
From Ongkaar, the One Universal Creator God, Brahma was [929-17 and subsequently lines follow]
He kept Ongkaar in his consciousness.
From Ongkaar, the mountains and the ages were created.
Ongkaar created the Vedas.
Ongkaar saves the world through the Shabad.
Ongkaar saves the Gurmukhs.
WE have in Bani
'Naam de Dhaarey sagle Jant'.
and many others as well that state to the effect that everything is created from Naam. What is the equivalence of Naam and ongkaar.Kindly think it over and give your valuable opinion.
Regards
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Pakistan has already admitted the hands of ISI and some of its militants groups in the incident.May be it is under the pressure of US. Yes, but the fact of matter is that India should have some counter strategy to this as well. Without the support of 'Locals' and absence of logistics nothing much can be done.India can also make efforts to bleed Pakistan in cold war the way they are doing in India.There seems no solution to this problem.
US has its own interests in Pakistan and indirect funding of terrorists against India by US will continue.
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Awwal Allah Nur Upaya
Kudrat de sab Bande.....
Ek Nur te sab jug upjaya..
Kaun Bhalle kaun Mande...!!!!
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As per that I understand from the above sabad it is clear that He is the One who is all in all and is all powerful and should be worthy of our devotional worship that is also obtained with HIS blessings as He is the causes of all causes.Nothing can happen without HIS hukum and Grace.One is not capable of doing anything of his own.Everything flows as per HIS hukim.
The one who has devotional worship and has 'Bhao and Bhay can please the Lord by his devotion and obtain the priceless 'Naam'.
Naam ,here and in my opinion , should refer to the Love of Lord and not simply 'waheguru'.
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Bilaaval, Fifth Mehl:
Who can know the value of serving You, God?
God is imperishable, invisible and incomprehensible. ||1||
His Glorious Virtues are infinite; God is profound and unfathomable.
The Mansion of God, my Lord and Master, is lofty and high.
You are unlimited, O my Lord and Master. ||1||Pause||
There is no other than the One Lord.
You alone know Your worship and adoration. ||2||
No one can do anything by himself, O Siblings of Destiny.
He alone obtains the Naam, the Name of the Lord, unto whom God bestows it. ||3||
Says Nanak, that humble being who pleases God,
<a class="dict" href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%97%E0%A9%81%E0%A8%A3" onmouseover="ddrivetip('iguṇ /i Quality, good quality', 250)" ;="" onmouseout="hideddrivetip()">ਗੁਣ ਨਿਧਾਨ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਤਿਨ ਹੀ ਪਾਇਆ ॥੪॥੧੦॥੧੫॥
he alone finds God, the treasure of virtue. ||4||10||15||
Kindly offer your thoughts on the above sabad.
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ਪਉੜੀ ॥
Pauree:
He Himself issues His Commands, and links the people of the world to their tasks.
He Himself joins some to Himself, and through the Guru, they find peace.
The mind runs around in the ten directions; the Guru holds it still.
Everyone longs for the Name, but it is only found through the Guru's Teachings.
<a class="dict" href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A7%E0%A9%81%E0%A8%B0%E0%A8%BF" onmouseover="ddrivetip('iḏẖur /i From Dhūra', 250)" ;="" onmouseout="hideddrivetip()">ਧੁਰਿ ਲਿਖਿਆ ਮੇਟਿ ਨ ਸਕੀਐ ਜੋ ਹਰਿ ਲਿਖਿ ਪਾਇਆ ॥੧੨॥
Your pre-ordained destiny, written by the Lord in the very beginning, cannot be erased. ||12||
Kindly go through the above sabad and explain/veechar over this in regard to the Karmic theory i.e 'aape beejay aape kha'
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kaur ji has explained in her own way and things seem perfectly ok. It is the semantics and the language that is the culprit. We all understand the meaning in essence.
Wjkk Wjkf
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All that you have stated is correct.It is true that we should call it as Vedantic theory. It was stated under a different garb. We are discussing the theory of Karma as per sikhi and the questions that may need consideration would be as follows:ਧੁਰਿ - ਧੁਰ ਦਰਗਾਹ ਤੋਂ ਭਾਵ ਜਿਥੋਂ ਜੀਵ ਆਏ ਹਨ I wouldn't call karmic theory a hinduism theory because of the term hindu but it exists in many eastern religions with different versions. Indian theory (Hinduism, Jainism etc) is that you reap what you sow and karmas are static and cannot be changed no matter what. Not even Avtaars can escape the power of karma. For example, father of Duryodhan was blind because of what he had 107 lives ago and all of the good deeds of 106 lives couldn't change anything. Company of Krishna made no difference and Duropadi suffered for the same reasons. Sita suffered her entire life and company of her husband, Raam, did not make anything better. But in Sikhi karma is not all powerful. Naam is considered most powerful and karma is considered weak. This is a huge difference and sets Sikhi apart. I couldn't find the katha by Baba Hari Singh. A direct link would be nice.1.Is the Karmic Theory the same as the Vedantic theory? It is presumed to be so. It shall also not stand to logic to give importance of various 'tuks' of bani . All tuks need better appreciation as we are doing in the thread. However, it is slightly surprising as to why some other member has not given the opinion in this thread.It is their will.
It is presumed ,in wider context, that we have pre-ordained desting from the 'dhur' i.e from the very beginning and our first Karma came along woth the creation and that was HIS gift.It is self interpolation of bani and I may be off. 'Naam de Dhare sagle jant'.It is thru. naam that every form/specie came into being and came along the first karma and the consequently the second karam i.e the natural response that was also pre ordained. . If we have any element of free will we would have been in a position to change our karams and that shall not stand to logic as the one who has created us also wants that HIS order and grace and 'nadar' should always prevail for all the times to to come.Thus there is slight anamoly here between free will and the theroy of karma as per sikhism. ' Aap Beejay aape he Khah'.It is true but in a contextual sense that every thing is pre-ordained and the poor Mortal is put in the cycle of incarnation by the Lord HImself.it is only when he is pleased and we are graced upon by HIM that we may get a chance to be liberated. If we belive fully in theory Free will it shall tantamount to the absence of the theory of Karma. I lay rest to this discussion that has beeen carried in a very amicable manner.I shall post further during the progression of this thread.Kindly go through the following sabad.
ਸੂਹੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥ &lt;br /&gt;Suhi 5th Guru. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt; &lt;br /&gt;ਘਰ ਕਾ ਕਾਜੁ ਨ ਜਾਣੀ ਰੂੜਾ ॥ &lt;br /&gt;The beauteous mortal knows not the work of his household. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt; &lt;br /&gt;ਝੂਠੈ ਧੰਧੈ ਰਚਿਓ ਮੂੜਾ ॥੧॥ &lt;br /&gt;The fool is engrossed in the false affairs. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt; &lt;br /&gt;ਜਿਤੁ ਤੂੰ ਲਾਵਹਿ ਤਿਤੁ ਤਿਤੁ ਲਗਨਾ ॥ &lt;br /&gt;As Thou attachest one, so is he attached. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt; &lt;br /&gt;ਜਾ ਤੂੰ ਦੇਹਿ ਤੇਰਾ ਨਾਉ ਜਪਨਾ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ &lt;br /&gt;When Thou blessest him then utters he Thy Name. Pause. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt; &lt;br /&gt;ਹਰਿ ਕੇ ਦਾਸ ਹਰਿ ਸੇਤੀ ਰਾਤੇ ॥ &lt;br /&gt;God's slaves are imbued with God, &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt; &lt;br /&gt;ਰਾਮ ਰਸਾਇਣਿ ਅਨਦਿਨੁ ਮਾਤੇ ॥੨॥ &lt;br /&gt;and night and day remain inebriated with Lord's wine (of Name). &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt; &lt;br /&gt;ਬਾਹ ਪਕਰਿ ਪ੍ਰਭਿ ਆਪੇ ਕਾਢੇ ॥ &lt;br /&gt;Holding them by the arm the Lord Himself pulls them out, &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt; &lt;br /&gt;ਜਨਮ ਜਨਮ ਕੇ ਟੂਟੇ ਗਾਢੇ ॥੩॥ &lt;br /&gt;and unites with Himself those, who are separated from Him since many birth. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt; &lt;br /&gt;ਉਧਰੁ ਸੁਆਮੀ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਧਾਰੇ ॥ &lt;br /&gt;Shower Thine benediction and save me Thou, O my Lord Master. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt; &lt;br /&gt;ਨਾਨਕ ਦਾਸ ਹਰਿ ਸਰਣਿ ਦੁਆਰੇ ॥੪॥੨੯॥੩੫॥ &lt;br /&gt;Nanak, Thy slave O God, has sought the refuge of Thy door. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;<br /><br />and<br /><br /><br /><br /> <br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />
As ususal my regards to Bijla singh ji who has contributed a lot and made me understand the things from some other perspective. Let us see if some other members have something to add.
I may kindly be advised if the sabad posted is legible as it does not appear to be so on my browser.
Wjkk Wjkf
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Thanks once again for a nice reply and I am grateful for sharing.I get your view point that we are blessed with some element of free will so as to achieve the objective of life that is to seek HIm and ,if possible, merge with HIM.
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The question that comes to the mind of a novice is as to what is 'dhur'. Is it from the beginning as is understood by a common Punjabi understanding man or 'dhur' will stand for the beginning of a particular joonie/form/specie.
At places one feels as if dhur is being addressed to as the beginning of life.Is the meaning has universal applicability so far as bani is concerned or it has always to be looked into the context.?
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As per that we have discussed so far there seems to be a great similarity in sikhism and Hinduism .There are differences, Of course, as in Sikhism man can do Naam jap and burn away the karmas.
Kindly comment if there is some other visible difference.
By virtue of the pre-ordained destiny on my brow, I have obtained the Lord.
[Note: I am giving two lines here ,one above this and one below this ,for interpretation]
ਤਿਨ੍ਹ੍ਹੀ ਅੰਤਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਆਰਾਧਿਆ ਜਿਨ ਕਉ ਧੁਰਿ ਲਿਖਿਆ ਲਿਖਤੁ ਲਿਲਾਰਾ ॥
They alone meditate on God in their mind, on whose forehead such beginning.
WJKK WJKF
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Naam Abhiyaas - Katha By Sant Singh Ji Maskeen
in GURBANI | SAKHIAN | HISTORY
Posted
Very nicely authored and thanks for very informative post.