ghoman01

Sonia of course we are jealous, look.. so he lied? big deal

he lied in court? big deal

he lied in court after swearing on Sikh Scriptures? big deal

it's not like you wouldnt do the same eh Sonia?

we are jealous, we wish we were with him right now..

if you're gonna sell out, get used to the consequences :-)

tell ya what, how about we do a raffle in aid of Mr Sidhu?

funny how anyone who defends sonia or her family must be either them , or related to them!

sorry to disappoint! am neither.

but then again I am on the forum where if anyone if critical of bhindranwala they must be RSS or Congress in disguise!!

the logic here is blinding!

and making references to 'good head of hair'

thank you Mr.B, you quite clearly prove my point about it being personal.

and you did it with very little help!!

Have fun guys. There's a reason why there are so few on here.

but at least you have a playground so it's all good.

:-)

"the words... "it is claimed" and "is accused" .. obviously missed you!!!!

he faked nothing!! it was accused.. or claimed... but he was NOT found guilty of any of that!!!

wow! you really don't have much upstairs hey"

I have not missed anything, just merely providing a link to what has been reported as with the original post. May be it is you who needs your eyes checking as this is clearly a concept that has gone way over your head gho man01 (the idea is you read the story, possibly click on the link, then discuss if you wish too).

Nobody is saying he has been found guilty of anything but perjury. This is a criminal offence even though you have stated this doesn't concern you as people lie everyday. As mentioned earlier, the information that you are privy to doesn't appear to have been made available to his defence team so as it stands he is a convicted criminal. You may not think this is serious, but many upstanding citizens will agree with the Judge and do think it is serious. These are just parts of the case that have been reported (and that too not by us). This is what happens in the media. Kind of like when you have a documentary called 1984 Sikh Story which is also ill researched but still put out for broadcast.

Interesting, but not suprising, you pose questions but never respond to those posed to you. Maybe a clever remark like you do not wish to bring yourself down to our level will follow, or you are respecting privacy or maybe it is the fact that your dear well respected friend has been convicted of lying (quite possibly following an oath on religious scriptures) and this is something you are finding difficult to deal with.

... or maybe ... just maybe... it could be that you just don't have anything better to talk about in your own sad little life.

You know very well what you are doing by re posting the same links. God, you must be really bored!

Seems to me your obsession is rather personal.

Jealousy. Not an attractive trait.

You have my sympathy.

;-)

December 16, 2009

SIDHU:INTERPETER ACCUSED OF HELPING TORY CHEAT JUSTICE MADE STUPID MISTAKE

ILFORD, ESSEX; BIRMINGHAM.

A court interpreter accused of helping a corrupt councillor dodge justice told police he had made a 'stupid mistake' by sending his notes to the politician, a court heard today (Weds). Punjabi-speaking translator Baldev Sidhu, 61, agreed to alter his transcripts of secretly taped conversations for Tory official Suresh Kumar, 44, it is claimed.

January 05, 2010

SIDHU: 'WEAK' TRANSLATOR DENIES MISLEADING JURY

REDBRIDGE, EAST LONDON; ILFORD, ESSEX; BIRMINGHAM;

An interpreter accused of faking translations for a Tory councillor who allegedly solicited a £10,000 bribe defended his language skills today (Tues). Punjabi translator Baldev Sidhu, 61, is said to have altered transcripts of taped conversations to get Suresh Kumar, 44, off the hook.

http://www.courtnews...rts=33&name=lop

ha ha !! you lot really do make me laugh!!

the words... "it is claimed" and "is accused" .. obviously missed you!!!!

he faked nothing!! it was accused.. or claimed... but he was NOT found guilty of any of that!!!

wow! you really don't have much upstairs hey.

;-)

oh for the love of god!!

now we're just going around in circles!

some people loved the programme. others didn't.

can't please everyone. there's been split opinion on bhindranwala for a whole generation. some gurdwaras don't even allow his pictures to be put up. do not be blinded into believing everyone thinks the same. but you are entitled to your VIEW and others are entitled to THEIRS.

programme has encouraged more debate into events and faith than I have seen for a LONG time.

that in my eyes is only a good thing.

because people have started to look into it themselves.

people who would never have been interested before.

as for sonia's father, I stand by what I said earlier. there is nothing but high praise for him and his lifelong reputation of selfless dedication to his community. you may not agree. that's your call. I have had access to many details that are not in the press, due to the nature of my work in the legal profession, but feel the family privacy needs to be respected during what is a very difficult time. Mr.Sidhu was simply doing his job and there were factors beyond his control to do with his own medical state that made him make silly errors on the day he gave evidence for which he was found guilty of perjury. The judge and the jury cleared him of the second charge of perverting the course of justice which included the charge of faking any translations. IF that had been a guilty verdict then it would have been clear that Mr.Sidhu had deliberately tried to mislead the court. But he was not found guilty of

I am not going to sit here and judge someone for being found guilty of perjury ( which is lying under oath) when I know firstly people lie everyday. Secondly when I know he is a good man with a selfless attitude who has been the victim of horrible circumstances, and I have seen details which make it quite clear that he will win his case on appeal.

Let's try and stop attacking people personally, who do not choose to be in the media spotlight. There are bigger cases in the news everyday. Yet those are not discussed. we are only talking about this because of who's dad it is. And I think that is not very fair.

It surely cannot be any easy time for the family right now. Right or wrong. It's just insensitive so let's please try and be a little more grown up and not make it worse for people like his wife who I remember hearing was recovering from cancer.

We should not be so quick to attack ... no one knows what's going to happen to you or someone close to you in the future. And there is such a thing as tempting fate.

source for figures? contact BBC Complaints and Audience. This is public information.

And before anyone says, well she was the presenter, she should have done x or y, I think people need to understand the constraints within which anyone works.

I don't think she was forced to make this documentary? I doubt if someone is going to take on a project of this sensitivity without some prior knowledge and research. I agree that jobs have constraints but professional integrity is quite important too , especially in journalism. If you don't call a spade a spade then you are not only cheating your self but your audience too.

I think what she presented was superb. Whilst there are areas I wish the programme had tackled, I appreciate the programme makers had one hour and decided on an emotive angle. I loved the fact that Sonia as a mainstream figure was 'big' enough to show us her 'sikh' side by seeing her in the temple etc. I also know that she is very highly respected amongst her peers at the temples she goes to. I have heard Mr.Mandla and others on the Soho Road committee regularly commend her, as they did after this programme. If the vast population had been upset then I'm sure there would have been more than 50 odd complaints out of 1.5 million people watching.

Big Chann I think your suggestion about changing the thread title is a good one. Lets see if anyone has the guts to do it..;-)

As for Mr.S sitting in his cell, he wouldn't be the first miscarriage of justice, so let's wait and see shall we. A man with a perfect record over a lifetime does not decide he's going to lie all of a sudden. I was pleased to hear such high praise for him amongst my colleagues today. Glad to see some people have the tenacity to know that even the law can get it wrong sometimes, and also that one little dot does not maketh the man.

"BiggChan, I am slightly confused"

Yes, I gathered that from your first post.

"You say you are from the legal profession also, and work in the same circles as Mr.Sidhu, yet you start a thread stating 'sonia's father jailed for false translations'

This worries me! Surely if you DO hang out at the Magistrates/Crown court you, like me, would have access to the CORRECT information. You would then know that Mr.Sidhu was found guilty of perjury, but NOT of perverting the course of justice"

I did not say I worked in the same circles as Mr. Sidhu. He is a translator. I am not. If you care to meet up, you may even recognise me. I do not 'hang out' at Court, I go there to work. 'Hanging out' at Court as you put it does not necessarily mean you have access to the CORRECT information. I did not go down to Southwark Crown Court to hear about this case but shall I take it that you did? Have you actually read any responses on this thread. I told you that I was going on the basis of the media reports.

"And finally regards discussing your family, I can choose to discuss whatever or whoever I like. That seems to be the general idea here"

I'm going to try and make this as simple as possible for you because you don't seem to understand. This is a public forum. It is likely that a large amount of the members are from the Punjabi community. Baldev Sidhu is a Punjabi. He has been convicted of a crime. This was publicised. The sources referred to him being the father of a public figure. A link to the articles was placed by me on to this forum as not only I but many have done in other cases.

Mr Sidhu has been convicted of a crime and is reaping what he sowed. If he is exonerated on appeal, I accept that the News of the World and others were wrong. as it stands, he is GUILTY and is now deemed by any Court and the community at large as a person of bad character.You will have to come to deal with this until his appeal has been heard and maybe in the meantime you can vent your frustration out on the outlets that published the case.

For someone who 'works' in the Courts, you do surprise me..

"I was going on the basis of the media reports. "

So you believe everything you read do you? Especially when it's in a tabloid newspaper. Ahh yes that's sensible.

'This is a public forum.'

all the more reason to get your facts CORRECT when starting a message thread.

"I'm going to try and make this as simple as possible for you because you don't seem to understand"

No, once again, please allow me. For the upteenth time, please show me WHERE it says Mr.Sidhu was jailed for falsely translating anything. Cut and paste and source it.

I'll save you the time, but a part of me is amused at you having a look for this from a reputable source.

News of the World said previous trial had stopped because of what was alleged. they do NOT say Mr.Sidhu was found guilty of falsifying any translation. That's because they can't cos it isn't true!

So discuss all you want, I just think people should discuss armed with the facts.. but then again I am on a forum where some people think Bhindranwale is still alive so the chances of me being successful in making my point are slim.

Good day.

ghoman01 ji, since you addressed your remarks at me I have responded directly to you. A few points I should clarify. You seem to be directing your frustration towards me simply as I am responsible for posting the link to this article on the forum. I have no problem with this, and if it makes you feel better about Mr. Sidhus actions, by all mean please continue to do so. Also there are various other forums on the internet who are discussing this issue therefore you may want to take it upon yourself to respond to the messengers on those sites too.

As a fellow member of the legal profession (although not as long as you), I am utterly shocked by Mr. Sidhus actions and hope that if the case is as you say, the Courts will exonerate him. If on the understand it is the truth, he should be condemned not only for his criminality but for bringing the profession and community in to disrepute. If you wish to meet me, I am frequently at Birmingham Magistrates' or Crown Court and am more than willing to discuss this in person (just PM me).I don't think this has topic has too much to do with Sikhi but I can't help making references to his daughter's programme as he did appear in it albeit very briefly. I am aware of with whom Mr. Sidhu fraternises with which may suggest his Indian political inclinations. Furthermore, it seems Sonia didn't really hesitate to consider the full range of Sikh opinion in this programme which could possibly suggest the programme had another angle.

Being as you are in the legal profession, I am sure that you read that this section of the forum is for any news articles to be posted, hence I posted it here. Finally, I suggest you don't bring my family in to the equation unless you want yours discussed too.

BiggChan, I am slightly confused. You say you are from the legal profession also, and work in the same circles as Mr.Sidhu, yet you start a thread stating 'sonia's father jailed for false translations'

This worries me! Surely if you DO hang out at the Magistrates/Crown court you, like me, would have access to the CORRECT information. You would then know that Mr.Sidhu was found guilty of perjury, but NOT of perverting the course of justice.

The second charge included the allegation of falsifying translations. But the jury CLEARED Mr.Sidhu of this charge. In other words, that would make YOUR statement false. I would love to state I am utterly shocked at YOUR actions ... but I am not.. as this is to be expected from smaller minds in our community.

Furthermore, you may disagree with parts of Sonia's Documentary, and I am in agreement with you about the fact it should have included other viewpoints.

But in my criticism I am aware that broadcasters do not have the editorial control/choice that we expect them to have. If they did, we would not see a range of names in the end credits of producers, executive producers and researchers. So while I think the doc itself should be answerable to certain questions, I do not feel it is fair that Sonia is the only person held responsible.

And before anyone says, well she was the presenter, she should have done x or y, I think people need to understand the constraints within which anyone works.

And finally regards discussing your family, I can choose to discuss whatever or whoever I like. That seems to be the general idea here.

"For those who are not clear about the facts, it is very simple. Sonia's father, Baldev Sidhu was CLEARED of perverting the course of justice. That means he was NOT GUILTY of faking any translations"

Please enlighten me as to the facts of the case ghoman01 ji. I have gone on the basis of the information available to hand. May be you can present a more balanced account than what the media have published. Will Mr Sidhu be pursuing libel proceedings? I feel ashamed if I have posted links to reports of false allegations. It would be the same as if I had presented a programme on the events of 1984 and then used that platform to present a totally unbalanced account on what took place and did nindiya of a respected sant.

"Big Chan can I no start a thread calling you a Robber, a cheat????"

ghoman01 ji, you can start a thread calling me whatever you like. In fact, when I was around 4 years old, I picked up a sweet from the supermarket pick n mix and ate it without paying. I knew this would come out one day.

"Mr.Sidhu was found guilty of perjury. That means that during the earlier trial of Mr.Kumar, Mr.Sidhu when asked said he was on the National Register Of Interpreters when in actual fact his membership had expired three months before, but he didn't realise because he has not seen the reminder letter. When you are on court, this is not seen as an error it is seen as perjury."

If this is in fact the case and it is an 'oversight' as you are claiming, it is still a criminal offence for which he was found guilty by a jury. Are there any other cases in which he has translated whilst his membership expired? This may be grounds of appeal if the translations were conducted by an uncertified translator. Thanks for bringing this issue to light ghoman01 ji.

"It was the prosecution and the News of The World reporter Mazher Mahmood who were trying to SUGGEST that Mr.Sidhu had helped and faked the translations of these secret recordings, but the judge and jury CLEARED MR.SIDHU OF THIS CHARGE!! Now use your head, do you think the News of The World will print this?? and make themselves look daft??? THINK!"

If he hasn't already considered it, may be you should book a prison visit and advise Mr. Sidhu about the libel laws of the U.K. He could make a nice little earner if what your saying is true.

"Mr.Sidhu during the earlier trial when he was there as a witness said he knew kumar cos his family had bought tickets from his travel agency, all above board. Mr.Sidhu told the truth, but the prosecution stopped the case and decided they were now gonna chase Mr.Sidhu too. So in effect, him telling the truth was now being used against him."

Clearly a conflict of interest if he knew the defendant from previous dealings. An experienced professional such as Mr. Sidhu should have known better. On another note, asda travel have got good deals on tickets.

"Only judge someone if you know everything."

Fair comment. I'll take this advice if I ever get the chance to make a documentary on 1984 too.

"We wish you luck in your appeal and believe justice will be done."

On the basis of what you have said, an appeal on conviction will most definately not be successful because like it or not he has broken the law. An appeal on sentence may be....I'm sure his legal team are on it.

No, not a member of any family involved, but def a member of the legal profession who has known the family for a long time and know many details the newspapers did not wish to print. I do not wish to invade their family privacy by elaborating all the details here, as much as that would entertain your little mind.

Virtually the whole legal profession from the Midlands who have worked with him and have known him for over 30 years are with him 100%, and that's all I wished to make public in this forum. His record is impeccable and speaks louder than a minor perjury conviction which was pushed on a technicality. We know he will win his appeal, and can only pray Big Chan that the likes of you and your family do not ever have to suffer what he and his family have had to endure.

O Nanak,

why do we argue with fools when they do not understand

grant me the strength to know yours is the only true court

and let those who speak ill of others

fear their own destiny

as you are the almighty and hold the fate of every tongue

Perjury is a very serious act. An officer of court, particularly lawyers but translators too, MUST not help in Misleading the court in any way or wilfully become a tool at hands of unscruplous elements and supress truth. And ignorance of any law is NOT excusable in any way esp if you represent the judiciary which is a watchdog of democracy. If i was the judge Mr Sidhu would be in jail for ATLEAST two years. Plus his having a relations with the accused brought him in Conflict of interest, which could hamper trial. He should have withdrawn. Another breach of rules, he may very well end up facing disciplinary action.

And while you are looking up at heavens...

1. Mr. Sidhus case was tried in a court of law not of justice.

Oh give it a rest. There are more serious crimes going on out there than this case. Also I notice how when you are 'judging' in this case your emphasis is more on the translator, and very little comment on the councillor Suresh Kumar who seems to be the REAL CULPRIT and quite clearly the person this newspaper was trying to frame. Why have you said nothing of the ethics of a councillor?? Is it because you have an agenda and a personal grudge against someone??

It's clear that this is nothing more than a witch hunt against Sonia and her family. It's people like you who will disappear and make no comment when he wins his appeal. You clearly have not heard of miscarriages of justice and believe everything you read.

Shame.

In the documentary (sorry I mean personal journey), she did refer to her father as her 'rock' so it would only be natural to assume she wanted to protect herself and her father from obvious references people would make about his bad character possibly having influenced her upbringing. Therefore it is quite possible that she deleted the page to tactically deflect attention off herself and her father.

Shame on people who call themselves Sikh and are gossiping about this story here on this site. Firstly I am sure there are more important things to discuss in our culture and religion than this case. Secondly, if you believe everything you read you, especially from a tabloid newspaper, you must need your brain checking.

Sonia's father is an incredibly well respected man in our community. He has been both selfless and tireless in helping others which is why so many of us are shocked at what has happened. For those who are not clear about the facts, it is very simple. Sonia's father, Baldev Sidhu was CLEARED of perverting the course of justice. That means he was NOT GUILTY of faking any translations.

So Big Chan your headline to this thread is WRONG! Big Chan can I no start a thread calling you a Robber, a cheat????

Mr.Sidhu was found guilty of perjury. That means that during the earlier trial of Mr.Kumar, Mr.Sidhu when asked said he was on the National Register Of Interpreters when in actual fact his membership had expired three months before, but he didn't realise because he has not seen the reminder letter. When you are on court, this is not seen as an error it is seen as perjury.

It was the prosecution and the News of The World reporter Mazher Mahmood who were trying to SUGGEST that Mr.Sidhu had helped and faked the translations of these secret recordings, but the judge and jury CLEARED MR.SIDHU OF THIS CHARGE!! Now use your head, do you think the News of The World will print this?? and make themselves look daft??? THINK!

Mr.Sidhu during the earlier trial when he was there as a witness said he knew kumar cos his family had bought tickets from his travel agency, all above board. Mr.Sidhu told the truth, but the prosecution stopped the case and decided they were now gonna chase Mr.Sidhu too. So in effect, him telling the truth was now being used against him.

Only judge someone if you know everything.

I cannot believe some of the things I have read on this thread. It breaks my heart and shames me to know that it's people from our own community that can be so cruel and insensitive. For what it is worth, I want to say here that if Mr.Sidhu's family is reading this, we are with you and our prayers are with you during this difficult time. We wish you luck in your appeal and believe justice will be done. You are a rock for our parents and so many in the community. And we do not care what has happened here. For us your REPUTATION FOR BEING AN HONEST HARD WORKING MAN FOR OVER 40 YEARS IS WHAT WE ARE JUDGING YOU BY AND FOR US YOU HAVE ALL THE INTEGRITY, DIGNITY AND GRACE ANYONE COULD WISH FOR. STAND TALL AND BE PROUD AND LET GOD BE THE BIGGEST JUDGE OF ALL, AFTER ALL THIS LIFE IS VERY SHORT AND IT IS HIS COURT WHICH WILL REALLY COUNT AT THE END OF THE DAY. AND ALL THE PEOPLE ON THIS THREAD WHO HAVE SAID THINGS TO HURT YOU AND YOUR FAMILY, WELL LET GOD JUDGE HOW THEY SHOULD BE DEALT WITH TOO. AND HE WILL. I HAVE NO DOUBT ABOUT THAT.

WE ARE TAUGHT AS GOOD SIKHS NOT TO GOSSIP.. NINDA... AND THIS IS WHAT WE CHOOSE TO DO ON A FORUM NAMES 'VOICE OF THE SIKH SANGAT'.... RAB THO DARO.