singh1606

Yes he has always existed, but in what form then? To exist means to be also present in some form in the world as well. What form was it? Because it's not guru nanak dev, that only occurred in kal yug. He is jugaad Sach, present in all yugs. What about sat yug, treta yug, dwapr yug??

And also referring to your comment about Chandi Di Vaar above, guru gobind Singh ji explicitly states that is in honor of Durga specifically, not just this generalized concept if Shakti you were staging, without a specific name or form. 

At the end of Chandi Di Vaar: "Durga path banaya sabe pauriya pher na joonie aya Jin eh Gaya." 

Translation: this Durga prayer I have made, whoever sings it will not be affected by birth or death. 

No brahm gyani will ever say I fully understood Akal. They will always say he is completely limitless and it is imperceptible to completely understand the singular formless being. 

You are the one trying to restrict that being in your incomplete understanding of Dharma, which has existed in all yugs not just guru nanak's Kal yug. If dharma existed so did brhm gyanis and gurus to maintain that dharm. 

The 3 dev were the first entities to be created, before any human or rishi or avtar. So they were the first to be exposed to the affects of Maya. So they were at some point, does that mean they still are. That in 4 yugs of time they were unable to overcome it and realize Akal? But in 500 year span of time all of a sudden truth was suddenly apparent? 

But then according to that logic, then the mool is inaccurate, then you have clearly stated that truth arrived only in Kal yug in the form of guru nanak, because he is the only possible brahm gyani while everyone else is basically number 2 level and not full truth. But mool mantar says that full truth has existed in previous yugs as well and not just guru nanak's Kal yug. And guru nanak avtar was technically unavailable in sat treta or dwapr yug as it came only in Kal yug. So you need to clarify then the aad Sach jugaad Sach part of mool mantar since truth in full form existed in previous yugs as well and not just Kal yug. 

Because Bhai randhir Singh refers to Nirankar through guru grant sahib as a physical representation. No one is above the formless Lord, not even guru granth sahib. 

Only the form less Akali Nirankar is above all, even guru grant sahib ji's physical saroop will eventually become birad, or old and withered, and a sanskar cremation will have to be done. Because only Nirankar lasts forever, he is Akal which means outside and unaffected by time, which means no youth or old age, this is why Nirankar is above all sargun forms of Akal whether guru grant sahib, Shiva, guru gobind Singh, guru teg Bahadur, other rishis etc. 

Just now, Kira said:

By that Logic so are you. You're Akaal in Sargun form, so let's all bow to you too.

Yes that us true everything is Akal. "Sabh gobind hai sabh gobind hai gobind bin avar na koi" 

But I don't have that knowledge through experience and reality, that's what Brahma gyani means, one who has the knowledge and experience that he is himself Akal. 

*Man tu joot saroop hai, apna mool paichaan." 

If I had that Gyan knowledge I would be Brahma gyanis, and then you could bow to me and it would be acceptable. Because "Brahma gyani ap Nirankar." 

The three dev are the tin chayle parvaan they are pooran brahm gyani. 

Yeah Vishnu is Nirankar in sargun form, so is bani. Akal can take multiple forms. You are the one limiting guru granth sahib to the physical form of a book, when the guru is Nirankar and thus can take any form. 

Limiting Nirankar like that is actually nindya. 

It seems Sikhism and sikhs have become less about nirankar and his various forms and experiences and more about simply devta bashing. It is the Kal yug after all there is bound to be confusion with inexperienced minds who believe they know and have experienced everything as though they were Brahma gyanis themselves. Be a sikh first and learn with an unbiased and open mind rather than reverting to nindya by nature and automatically, without having even tried to understand what you are denouncing. It's simply repetition of secondary and tertiary interpretations of certain parchariks, not accurate to what Bani says. 

That's why I said you are lost because you are just soooo busy devta bashing. you do not understand and you do not personally know Shiva or other Brahma gyanis and their opinions, yet you already have such predetermined and strong opinions about them, without understanding their struggles or level of spirituality and their Akali Shakti, relation to Akal, and role in our universe. 

Guru Gobind Singh uses Shivas name interchangeably with akal, in "De Shiva bar mohe" because what guru gobind Singh did as rishi Dust Daman in Hemkunt sahib, Shiva had done long ago as well at Mt. Kailash in the Himalayas near Mansarovar. So the guru pays his respect toward Shiva as Akal's form because Shiva is a more senior Brahma gyani, Vishnu Brahma and Shiva are our universes oldest Brahma gyanis that is why they are able to carry out Akals hukum of creation, destruction, and sustenance of the universe. When you do nindya of these Devs you are not getting anyone's belssings at all. Additionally, guru gobind Singh was not the only one to become Akali at hemkunt sahib, Pandu, the 5 Pandav brothers with Draupadi, and Laksman Sri ram chander's brother aka Shesh Naga also did bhagti at that same spot guru gobind Singh did as well, in the form of rishi Dust Daman. 

Yeah but there's still no one more lost than you LoL

Maya can also means Laxmi, ie treasure riches and luxury. She is a manifestation of Durga, like Kali and Parvati. And Saraswati as well. Laxmi is married to Akal Purakh's Vishnu sustainer Form, and is often depicted massaging Vishnu's legs and feet serving him as wife and Shakti in the form of riches, power, and luxury. Even today Maya ue laxmi always prefers to stay at the feet of Vishnu, as you can see the many dollars, pounds, or rupees that always seem to gather spontaneously wherever Guru Granth Sahib is prakash. Money is also a sargun form of Laxmi, of power and Shakti. There things that rich people can do which poor people can nit. That is Laxmi's Shakti control in the universe as per Akal Purakh. Saraswati and Parvati are also different forms of Shakti and represent other things, they are also the physical projection and manifestation of Akal Purakh in physical form, going from nirgun (formless) to sargun (physical manifestation of Shakti). 

The Dev became ego ridden, so asuras were created to be stronger than them on purpose, in order to tarnish their ego and pride. Akal doesn't like ego, Nam and ego can't coexist, so to keep the devas close to his Nam Akal had no choice but to create powerful asuras which would conquer the Dev lok. 

Yeah the Dev had to correct their mistakes. That is why the asuras were created, they dethroned Indra from Amaravati in heaven and ruled the three main lokas. That's when Durga ma had to rescue Indra. She had the help of Brahma gyani rishis Samaund and Dust Daman. Durga foretold that in Kal yug these rishis and herself will again fight the asuras in our dimension. The moghals which tried to convert and conquer Hindustan were avtar of those same rakshsas that were fought as described in Chandi Di Vaar. Rishi Samaund and Rishi Dust Daman then also had to take avtar as Tyag Mal later Guru Teg Bahadur and Gobind Rai aka Guru Gobind Singh fulfilling their duty and destiny in this dimension as well. 

These beings are Akal puraks sargun physical form. They are his physical arms, otherwise Akal has no actual form or color. That is why they are also stated as guru, because only through the physical guru can you find the formless guru. That is the function of guru nanak Shiva et al. Gur isar gur Gorakh Brahma gur Parvati mai, Akal has taken the form of a guru in many ways, that is stretching from sat yug all the way to Kal yug. There have been so many gurus. In Kal yug alone just in the span of 500 years there have 10 enlightened beings, imagine the many throughout the eons and millions of years of all four yugs. This is why it's said that sikhs today have cut Sikhism short, to begin only at 1469, the correction is that the concept of Sikhism had started with Brahma Vishnu and Mahesh as the tin chayle parvaan, the correct answer is that avtar of guru nanak dev occurred in 1469 where Sikhism was again reintroduced to Hind. After being lost in the darkness and ignorance of Kal yug. 

Of course everyone is temporary, all sargun forms of Akal ie guru nanak, Vishnu, Shiva, et al will all disappear once Akal decides to destroy everything and be by his own self. Akal is Nirankar he has no foem, when everything is destroyed there will only be formlessness. In the beginning Akal was by himself with no one else, therefore not just Shiva brhma and Vishnu are subject to the end of this game that Akal has started, guru nanak himself will also be included when the formless one decides to end everything. The guru uses the example of Brahma Shiva and Vishnu because they were the first 3 beings created by Akal, they are his first 3 sikhs in the universe. Eka Mai jugat vai tin chele parvaan (Brahma Vishnu Mahesh/Shiva) ik sansari(brhma Akal creates through brhma) ik bhandari (the sustainer vushnu) ik lai diban (Shiva the desteoyer) these are Akal purakhs tin chayle parvaan his accepted 3 students or first 3 sikhs of the universe. The guru uses them as an example because even they will not remain when Akal decides to end this game, therefore nothing at all will remain as it was before creation ensues. And when the formless one feels like it again he will recreate the tin chayle and recreate sustain and accordingly destroy the universe. "Kai bar pasrayo pasar sada ik ik onkar"If even the creating force of Akal the sustaining force and even the destroying force will not survive what will happen to the rest of the universe? That is why they are used as prime examples because they are primal and the oldest creations of Akal. 

Today's sikhs are useless. They aren't even real sikhs. They like to divide dharam in to sikh and then everyone else. And then they degrade that everyone else as inferior while at the same time saying Good is in them as well and our Guru is like isar Brahma or Vishnu for us. Which is contradictory and hypocritical. Today's sikhs can't see the same guru in the form of Brahma or Shiva or Parvatti, the guru has to be a bearded man for them. Preferably with a white beard holding out a hand. They don't realize that the guru is the same as this aforementioned. I suggest you read what Jap ji sahib is saying and it is saying exactly as the original poster read it, everything else you read in this thread is a secondary or tertiary interpretation and can skew the original message. Just read the primary source and what it says. Don't let others' egotistical interpretations of Sikhism get in the way. The guru is beyond their ego, the same guru you bow down to in Gurdwara had also taken the form of Shiva, gorakh and Parvati mai. Sikhs today are confining guru grant sahib to his physical form as a book, when he has had taken these forms as well in the past. It's the same guru aad Sach jugaad Sach hai bhi Sach nanak hosi bhi Sach. Guru granth sahib did not start existing 500 years ago, he was always around since the beginning but in different forms, like Shiva, like Parvati, like Gorakh Nath. Sikhs today say Sikhism is so deep it is limitless, guru grant sahib is so deep and limitless, yet they limit them at the same time and can't see the fact that that same guru did and could have had numerous forms and that because he is limitless he could take the form of Shiva et al as well. They say he is limitless but tend to suppress him in whatever form they think is correct according to their own knowledge. This is what is meant by mahadev kou kahat sada siv nirankar ka cheenat nai bhiv they think the one is only the form of Shiva, when he was also the form of Vishnu and Brahma the rishis and Parvati as well , when he also has no form at all to. Same with sikhs today, they think nirankar is only in the form of guru granth sahib when that is not spiritually accurate since nirnkar is aad Sach jugaad Sach hai bhi Sach nanak hosi bhi Sach, he was around in various forms before Guru Nanak even took avtar before even yet inventing the oora shabd,, that's where Shiva Brahma and Vishnu come in when Gorakh Nath come in, they are him too just reinvented in another form. This is what modern day "sikhs" refuse to understand, they rather hang on to their ego that we are special and above everyone else, like the misled brahmins of the past, that is what they have become today. No understanding just trying to portray they want to see him not what he actually is. Not by What he is actually saying. 

Fin

29 minutes ago, Kira said:

I pasted lines that refuted all claims about Durga pooja so now its about Vishnu pooja. alright lets play your game. Read Akal Ustat and then come and talk to me about these banis. I think you really need to read the mool mantar again, the words Karta Purkh (the doer of everything). All victory belongs to God so indirectly yes it was God working through Vishnu, just like it was God working through every battle or encounter of good vs evil. God was working through the British and allied to destroy the axis powers, God was working through the americans to give them independence, God was working through the demons to destroy the ego of the Devtas etc etc. I could literally keep going on but I have a strong hunch this will all fly over your head. 

Dear God. I think we have an avatar of stupidity here. Please go back and learn the concepts of Sargun and Nirgun before coming here. The whole universe is a form of Akaal Purkh, a roop of Akaal Purkh. They are no different. Read Chaubis Avatar, the first portion literally says all these avatars are deluded. Guru Gobind Singh Ji wrote an entire portion of a bani criticising them (read Shabad Hazare Patashe 10). Go read Batichar Natek. You talk about "vichar" but haven't even bothered reading the verses you're quoting. Read the Gurmukhi you quoted you numbskull. God is said to be ਸ੍ਰੀ ਰਾਮਚੰਦ ਜਿਸੁ ਰੂਪੁ ਨ ਰੇਖਿਆ ॥ God is that Raam who has no form. So please go off and read them and then let's have a discussion.
 

Guru Gobind Singh Ji already said they were deluded in Dasam Granth, So please. Continue barking all you want, you're cutting and pasting faulty translations and I'm willing to bet you can't sit down and do the proper arth of any of these verses. Good Luck on your quest to shove Devta Pooja down the throats of the people here, I doubt anyone will fall for it. No one here respects SGPC, heck just read the old Granths and none of them tell Sikhs to worship anyone but Akaal Purkh. Read Bhai Sahib Bhai Randhir Singh Ji's works all written BEFORE the time of SGPC and all of them said not to worship any of these Devtas. 

 

This link pretty much refutes all your points. Stick to smashing your head on the stone floors of Durga's madirs, I'm sure it'll help you out big time.

http://www.searchsikhism.com/sri-guru-gobind-singh-ji/alleged-worship-of-goddess-durga

 

 

that's just one of about a thousand lines all saying the same thing. If you want to argue with anyone go and argue with Guru Gobind Singh Ji. I'd love to see how that goes.

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ਜੌ ਕਹੋ ਰਾਮ ਅਜੋਨਿ ਅਜੈ ਅਤਿ ਕਾਹੇ ਕੌ ਕੌਸਲਿ ਕੁਖ ਜਯੋ ਜੂ ॥

Jou Kaho Raam Ajoni Ajai Ati Kaahe Kou Kousli Kukh Jayo Joo ॥

If we consider Ram, the Lord as Unborn, then how did he take brith from the womb of Kaushalya ?

੩੩ ਸਵੈਯੇ - ੧੩/੧ - ਸ੍ਰੀ ਦਸਮ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ

ਭੂਤ ਭਵਿਖ ਭਵਾਨ ਤੁਹੀ ਸਬਹੂੰ ਸਬ ਠੌਰਨ ਮੋ ਮਨ ਮਾਨਾ ॥

Bhoota Bhavikh Bhavaan Tuhee Sabahooaan Saba Tthourn Mo Man Maanaa ॥

Thou art considered Pervasive in the present, past and future

੩੩ ਸਵੈਯੇ - ੭/੨ - ਸ੍ਰੀ ਦਸਮ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ

ਕਾਲ ਹੂੰ ਕਾਲ ਕਹੋ ਜਿਹ ਕੌ ਕਿਹਿ ਕਾਰਣ ਕਾਲ ਤੇ ਦੀਨ ਭਯੋ ਜੂ ॥

Kaal Hooaan Kaal Kaho Jih Kou Kihi Kaaran Kaal Te Deena Bhayo Joo ॥

He, who is said to be the KAL (destroyer) of KAL (death), then why did none become subjugated himself before KAL?

੩੩ ਸਵੈਯੇ - ੧੩/੨ - ਸ੍ਰੀ ਦਸਮ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ

ਸਦੇਵ ਅਦੇਵ ਮਣੀਧਰ ਨਾਰਦ ਸਾਰਦ ਸਤਿ ਸਦੈਵ ਪਛਾਨਾ ॥

Sadev Adev Maneedhar Naarada Saarada Sati Sadaiva Pachhaanaa ॥

The gods, demons, Nagas, Narada and Sharda have been ever thinking of Thee as Truth-incarnate

੩੩ ਸਵੈਯੇ - ੭/੩ - ਸ੍ਰੀ ਦਸਮ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ

ਸਤਿ ਸਰੂਪ ਬਿਬੈਰ ਕਹਾਇ ਸੁ ਕਯੋਂ ਪਥ ਕੋ ਰਥ ਹਾਕਿ ਧਯੋ ਜੂ ॥

Sati Saroop Bibari Kahaaei Su Kayona Patha Ko Ratha Haaki Dhayo Joo ॥

If he is called the Truth-incarnate, beyond enmity and opposition, then why did he become the charioteer of Arjuna ?

ਤਾਹੀ ਕੋ ਮਾਨਿ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਕਰਿ ਕੈ ਜਿਹ ਕੋ ਕੋਊ ਭੇਦੁ ਨ ਲੈਨ ਲਯੋ ਜੂ ॥੧੩॥

Taahee Ko Maani Parbhoo Kari Kai Jih Ko Koaoo Bhedu Na Lain Layo Joo ॥13॥

O mind ! you only consider him the Lord God, whose Mysetry could not be known to anyone.13.

੩੩ ਸਵੈਯੇ - ੧੩/(੪) - ਸ੍ਰੀ ਦਸਮ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ

ਕ੍ਯੋ ਕਹੋ ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾਨਿਧਿ ਹੈ ਕਿਹ ਕਾਜ ਤੇ ਬਧਕ ਬਾਣੁ ਲਗਾਯੋ ॥

Kaio Kaho Krisan Kripaanidhi Hai Kih Kaaja Te Badhaka Baanu Lagaayo ॥

Krishna himself is considered the treasure of Grace, then why did the hunter shot his arrow at him ?

੩੩ ਸਵੈਯੇ - ੧੪/੧ - ਸ੍ਰੀ ਦਸਮ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ

ਅਉਰ ਕੁਲੀਨ ਉਧਾਰਤ ਜੋ ਕਿਹ ਤੇ ਅਪਨੋ ਕੁਲਿ ਨਾਸੁ ਕਰਾਯੋ ॥

Aaur Kuleena Audhaarata Jo Kih Te Apano Kuli Naasu Karaayo ॥

He has been described as redeeming the clans of others then he caused the destruction of his own clan

੩੩ ਸਵੈਯੇ - ੧੪/੨ - ਸ੍ਰੀ ਦਸਮ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ

ਆਦਿ ਅਜੋਨਿ ਕਹਾਇ ਕਹੋ ਕਿਮ ਦੇਵਕਿ ਕੇ ਜਠਰੰਤਰ ਆਯੋ ॥

Aadi Ajoni Kahaaei Kaho Kima Devaki Ke Jattharaantar Aayo ॥

He is said to be unborn and beginningless, then how did he come into the womb of Devaki ?

੩੩ ਸਵੈਯੇ - ੧੪/੩ - ਸ੍ਰੀ ਦਸਮ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ

ਤਾਤ ਨ ਮਾਤ ਕਹੈ ਜਿਹ ਕੋ ਤਿਹ ਕਯੋ ਬਸੁਦੇਵਹਿ ਬਾਪੁ ਕਹਾਯੋ ॥੧੪॥

Taata Na Maata Kahai Jih Ko Tih Kayo Basudevahi Baapu Kahaayo ॥14॥

He , who is considered without any father or mother, then why did he cause Vasudev to be called his father?14.

੩੩ ਸਵੈਯੇ - ੧੪/(੪) - ਸ੍ਰੀ ਦਸਮ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ

ਕਾਹੇ ਕੌ ਏਸ ਮਹੇਸਹਿ ਭਾਖਤ ਕਾਹਿ ਦਿਜੇਸ ਕੋ ਏਸ ਬਖਾਨਯੋ ॥

Kaahe Kou Eesa Mahesahi Bhaakhta Kaahi Dijesa Ko Eesa Bakhaanyo ॥

Why do you consider Shiva or Brahma as the Lord ?

੩੩ ਸਵੈਯੇ - ੧੫/੧ - ਸ੍ਰੀ ਦਸਮ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ

ਹੈ ਨ ਰਘ੍ਵੇਸ ਜਦ੍ਵੇਸ ਰਮਾਪਤਿ ਤੈ ਜਿਨ ਕੋ ਬਿਸੁਨਾਥ ਪਛਾਨਯੋ ॥

Hai Na Raghavesa Jadavesa Ramaapati Tai Jin Ko Bisunaatha Pachhaanyo ॥

There is none amongst Ram, Krishna and Vishnu, who may be considered as the Lord of the Universe by you

੩੩ ਸਵੈਯੇ - ੧੫/੨ - ਸ੍ਰੀ ਦਸਮ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ

ਏਕ ਕੋ ਛਾਡਿ ਅਨੇਕ ਭਜੇ ਸੁਕਦੇਵ ਪਰਾਸਰ ਬਯਾਸ ਝੁਠਾਨਯੋ ॥

Eeka Ko Chhaadi Aneka Bhaje Sukadev Paraasar Bayaasa Jhutthaanyo ॥

Relinquishing the One Lord, you remember many gods and goddesses

੩੩ ਸਵੈਯੇ - ੧੫/੩ - ਸ੍ਰੀ ਦਸਮ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ

ਫੋਕਟ ਧਰਮ ਸਜੇ ਸਬ ਹੀ ਹਮ ਏਕ ਹੀ ਕੌ ਬਿਧਿ ਨੇਕ ਪ੍ਰਮਾਨਯੋ ॥੧੫॥

Phokatta Dharma Saje Saba Hee Hama Eeka Hee Kou Bidhi Neka Parmaanyo ॥15॥

In this way you prove Shukdev, Prashar etc. as liars all the so-called religions are hollow I only accept the One Lord as the Providence.15.

੩੩ ਸਵੈਯੇ - ੧੫/(੪) - ਸ੍ਰੀ ਦਸਮ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ

ਕੋਊ ਦਿਜੇਸ ਕੁ ਮਾਨਤ ਹੈ ਅਰੁ ਕੋਊ ਮਹੇਸ ਕੋ ਏਸ ਬਤੈ ਹੈ ॥

Koaoo Dijesa Ku Maanta Hai Aru Koaoo Mahesa Ko Eesa Batai Hai ॥

Someone tells Brahma as the Lord-God and someone tells the same thing about Shiva

੩੩ ਸਵੈਯੇ - ੧੬/੧ - ਸ੍ਰੀ ਦਸਮ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ

ਕੋਊ ਕਹੈ ਬਿਸਨੋ ਬਿਸੁਨਾਇਕ ਜਾਹਿ ਭਜੇ ਅਘ ਓਘ ਕਟੈ ਹੈ ॥

Koaoo Kahai Bisano Bisunaaeika Jaahi Bhaje Agha Aogha Kattai Hai ॥

Someone considers Vishnu as the hero of the universe and says that only on remembering him, all the sins will be destroyed

੩੩ ਸਵੈਯੇ - ੧੬/੨ - ਸ੍ਰੀ ਦਸਮ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ

ਬਾਰ ਹਜਾਰ ਬਿਚਾਰ ਅਰੇ ਜੜ ਅੰਤ ਸਮੇ ਸਬ ਹੀ ਤਜਿ ਜੈ ਹੈ ॥

Baara Hajaara Bichaara Are Jarha Aanta Same Saba Hee Taji Jai Hai ॥

O fool ! think about it a thousand times, all of them will leave you at the time of death,

੩੩ ਸਵੈਯੇ - ੧੬/੩ - ਸ੍ਰੀ ਦਸਮ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ

ਤਾ ਹੀ ਕੋ ਧਯਾਨ ਪ੍ਰਮਾਨਿ ਹੀਏ ਜੋਊ ਕੇ ਅਬ ਹੈ ਅਰ ਆਗੈ ਊ ਹ੍ਵੈ ਹੈ ॥੧੬॥

Taa Hee Ko Dhayaan Parmaani Heeee Joaoo Ke Aba Hai Ar Aagai Aoo Havai Hai ॥16॥

Therefore, you should only meditate on Him, who is there in the present and who will also be there in future.16.

੩੩ ਸਵੈਯੇ - ੧੬/(੪) - ਸ੍ਰੀ ਦਸਮ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ

ਕੋਟਕ ਇੰਦ੍ਰ ਕਰੇ ਜਿਹ ਕੇ ਕਈ ਕੋਟਿ ਉਪਿੰਦ੍ਰ ਬਨਾਇ ਖਪਾਯੋ ॥

Kottaka Eiaandar Kare Jih Ke Kaeee Kotti Aupiaandar Banaaei Khpaayo ॥

He, who created crores of Indras and Upendras and then destroyed them

੩੩ ਸਵੈਯੇ - ੧੭/੧ - ਸ੍ਰੀ ਦਸਮ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ

ਦਾਨਵ ਦੇਵ ਫਨਿੰਦ੍ਰ ਧਰਾਧਰ ਪਛ ਪਸੂ ਨਹਿ ਜਾਤਿ ਗਨਾਯੋ ॥

Daanva Dev Phaniaandar Dharaadhar Pachha Pasoo Nahi Jaati Ganaayo ॥

He, who created innumerable gods, demons, Sheshnaga, tortoises, birds, animals etc.,

੩੩ ਸਵੈਯੇ - ੧੭/੨ - ਸ੍ਰੀ ਦਸਮ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ

ਆਜ ਲਗੇ ਤਪੁ ਸਾਧਤ ਹੈ ਸਿਵ ਊ ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਕਛੁ ਪਾਰ ਨ ਪਾਯੋ ॥

Aaja Lage Tapu Saadhata Hai Siva Aoo Barhamaa Kachhu Paara Na Paayo ॥

And for knowing whose Mystery, Shiva and Brahma are performing austerities even till today, but could not know His end

੩੩ ਸਵੈਯੇ - ੧੭/੩ - ਸ੍ਰੀ ਦਸਮ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ

ਬੇਦ ਕਤੇਬ ਨ ਭੇਦ ਲਖਯੋ ਜਿਹ ਸੋਊ ਗੁਰੂ ਗੁਰ ਮੋਹਿ ਬਤਾਯੋ ॥੧੭॥

Beda Kateba Na Bheda Lakhyo Jih Soaoo Guroo Gur Mohi Bataayo ॥17॥

He is such a Guru, whose Mystery could not be comprehended also by Vedas and Katebs and my Guru has told me the same thing.17.

੩੩ ਸਵੈਯੇ - ੧੭/(੪) - ਸ੍ਰੀ ਦਸਮ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ  

 

Fine then, i will go where my opinion is respected. Yes I will continue smashing my head on the stone floors of Durga, and it's none of your business either.

Fin

29 minutes ago, Kira said:

I pasted lines that refuted all claims about Durga pooja so now its about Vishnu pooja. alright lets play your game. Read Akal Ustat and then come and talk to me about these banis. I think you really need to read the mool mantar again, the words Karta Purkh (the doer of everything). All victory belongs to God so indirectly yes it was God working through Vishnu, just like it was God working through every battle or encounter of good vs evil. God was working through the British and allied to destroy the axis powers, God was working through the americans to give them independence, God was working through the demons to destroy the ego of the Devtas etc etc. I could literally keep going on but I have a strong hunch this will all fly over your head. 

Dear God. I think we have an avatar of stupidity here. Please go back and learn the concepts of Sargun and Nirgun before coming here. The whole universe is a form of Akaal Purkh, a roop of Akaal Purkh. They are no different. Read Chaubis Avatar, the first portion literally says all these avatars are deluded. Guru Gobind Singh Ji wrote an entire portion of a bani criticising them (read Shabad Hazare Patashe 10). Go read Batichar Natek. You talk about "vichar" but haven't even bothered reading the verses you're quoting. Read the Gurmukhi you quoted you numbskull. God is said to be ਸ੍ਰੀ ਰਾਮਚੰਦ ਜਿਸੁ ਰੂਪੁ ਨ ਰੇਖਿਆ ॥ God is that Raam who has no form. So please go off and read them and then let's have a discussion.
 

Guru Gobind Singh Ji already said they were deluded in Dasam Granth, So please. Continue barking all you want, you're cutting and pasting faulty translations and I'm willing to bet you can't sit down and do the proper arth of any of these verses. Good Luck on your quest to shove Devta Pooja down the throats of the people here, I doubt anyone will fall for it. No one here respects SGPC, heck just read the old Granths and none of them tell Sikhs to worship anyone but Akaal Purkh. Read Bhai Sahib Bhai Randhir Singh Ji's works all written BEFORE the time of SGPC and all of them said not to worship any of these Devtas. 

 

This link pretty much refutes all your points. Stick to smashing your head on the stone floors of Durga's madirs, I'm sure it'll help you out big time.

http://www.searchsikhism.com/sri-guru-gobind-singh-ji/alleged-worship-of-goddess-durga

 

 

that's just one of about a thousand lines all saying the same thing. If you want to argue with anyone go and argue with Guru Gobind Singh Ji. I'd love to see how that goes.

  Reveal hidden contents

ਜੌ ਕਹੋ ਰਾਮ ਅਜੋਨਿ ਅਜੈ ਅਤਿ ਕਾਹੇ ਕੌ ਕੌਸਲਿ ਕੁਖ ਜਯੋ ਜੂ ॥

Jou Kaho Raam Ajoni Ajai Ati Kaahe Kou Kousli Kukh Jayo Joo ॥

If we consider Ram, the Lord as Unborn, then how did he take brith from the womb of Kaushalya ?

੩੩ ਸਵੈਯੇ - ੧੩/੧ - ਸ੍ਰੀ ਦਸਮ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ

ਭੂਤ ਭਵਿਖ ਭਵਾਨ ਤੁਹੀ ਸਬਹੂੰ ਸਬ ਠੌਰਨ ਮੋ ਮਨ ਮਾਨਾ ॥

Bhoota Bhavikh Bhavaan Tuhee Sabahooaan Saba Tthourn Mo Man Maanaa ॥

Thou art considered Pervasive in the present, past and future

੩੩ ਸਵੈਯੇ - ੭/੨ - ਸ੍ਰੀ ਦਸਮ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ

ਕਾਲ ਹੂੰ ਕਾਲ ਕਹੋ ਜਿਹ ਕੌ ਕਿਹਿ ਕਾਰਣ ਕਾਲ ਤੇ ਦੀਨ ਭਯੋ ਜੂ ॥

Kaal Hooaan Kaal Kaho Jih Kou Kihi Kaaran Kaal Te Deena Bhayo Joo ॥

He, who is said to be the KAL (destroyer) of KAL (death), then why did none become subjugated himself before KAL?

੩੩ ਸਵੈਯੇ - ੧੩/੨ - ਸ੍ਰੀ ਦਸਮ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ

ਸਦੇਵ ਅਦੇਵ ਮਣੀਧਰ ਨਾਰਦ ਸਾਰਦ ਸਤਿ ਸਦੈਵ ਪਛਾਨਾ ॥

Sadev Adev Maneedhar Naarada Saarada Sati Sadaiva Pachhaanaa ॥

The gods, demons, Nagas, Narada and Sharda have been ever thinking of Thee as Truth-incarnate

੩੩ ਸਵੈਯੇ - ੭/੩ - ਸ੍ਰੀ ਦਸਮ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ

ਸਤਿ ਸਰੂਪ ਬਿਬੈਰ ਕਹਾਇ ਸੁ ਕਯੋਂ ਪਥ ਕੋ ਰਥ ਹਾਕਿ ਧਯੋ ਜੂ ॥

Sati Saroop Bibari Kahaaei Su Kayona Patha Ko Ratha Haaki Dhayo Joo ॥

If he is called the Truth-incarnate, beyond enmity and opposition, then why did he become the charioteer of Arjuna ?

ਤਾਹੀ ਕੋ ਮਾਨਿ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਕਰਿ ਕੈ ਜਿਹ ਕੋ ਕੋਊ ਭੇਦੁ ਨ ਲੈਨ ਲਯੋ ਜੂ ॥੧੩॥

Taahee Ko Maani Parbhoo Kari Kai Jih Ko Koaoo Bhedu Na Lain Layo Joo ॥13॥

O mind ! you only consider him the Lord God, whose Mysetry could not be known to anyone.13.

੩੩ ਸਵੈਯੇ - ੧੩/(੪) - ਸ੍ਰੀ ਦਸਮ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ

ਕ੍ਯੋ ਕਹੋ ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾਨਿਧਿ ਹੈ ਕਿਹ ਕਾਜ ਤੇ ਬਧਕ ਬਾਣੁ ਲਗਾਯੋ ॥

Kaio Kaho Krisan Kripaanidhi Hai Kih Kaaja Te Badhaka Baanu Lagaayo ॥

Krishna himself is considered the treasure of Grace, then why did the hunter shot his arrow at him ?

੩੩ ਸਵੈਯੇ - ੧੪/੧ - ਸ੍ਰੀ ਦਸਮ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ

ਅਉਰ ਕੁਲੀਨ ਉਧਾਰਤ ਜੋ ਕਿਹ ਤੇ ਅਪਨੋ ਕੁਲਿ ਨਾਸੁ ਕਰਾਯੋ ॥

Aaur Kuleena Audhaarata Jo Kih Te Apano Kuli Naasu Karaayo ॥

He has been described as redeeming the clans of others then he caused the destruction of his own clan

੩੩ ਸਵੈਯੇ - ੧੪/੨ - ਸ੍ਰੀ ਦਸਮ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ

ਆਦਿ ਅਜੋਨਿ ਕਹਾਇ ਕਹੋ ਕਿਮ ਦੇਵਕਿ ਕੇ ਜਠਰੰਤਰ ਆਯੋ ॥

Aadi Ajoni Kahaaei Kaho Kima Devaki Ke Jattharaantar Aayo ॥

He is said to be unborn and beginningless, then how did he come into the womb of Devaki ?

੩੩ ਸਵੈਯੇ - ੧੪/੩ - ਸ੍ਰੀ ਦਸਮ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ

ਤਾਤ ਨ ਮਾਤ ਕਹੈ ਜਿਹ ਕੋ ਤਿਹ ਕਯੋ ਬਸੁਦੇਵਹਿ ਬਾਪੁ ਕਹਾਯੋ ॥੧੪॥

Taata Na Maata Kahai Jih Ko Tih Kayo Basudevahi Baapu Kahaayo ॥14॥

He , who is considered without any father or mother, then why did he cause Vasudev to be called his father?14.

੩੩ ਸਵੈਯੇ - ੧੪/(੪) - ਸ੍ਰੀ ਦਸਮ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ

ਕਾਹੇ ਕੌ ਏਸ ਮਹੇਸਹਿ ਭਾਖਤ ਕਾਹਿ ਦਿਜੇਸ ਕੋ ਏਸ ਬਖਾਨਯੋ ॥

Kaahe Kou Eesa Mahesahi Bhaakhta Kaahi Dijesa Ko Eesa Bakhaanyo ॥

Why do you consider Shiva or Brahma as the Lord ?

੩੩ ਸਵੈਯੇ - ੧੫/੧ - ਸ੍ਰੀ ਦਸਮ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ

ਹੈ ਨ ਰਘ੍ਵੇਸ ਜਦ੍ਵੇਸ ਰਮਾਪਤਿ ਤੈ ਜਿਨ ਕੋ ਬਿਸੁਨਾਥ ਪਛਾਨਯੋ ॥

Hai Na Raghavesa Jadavesa Ramaapati Tai Jin Ko Bisunaatha Pachhaanyo ॥

There is none amongst Ram, Krishna and Vishnu, who may be considered as the Lord of the Universe by you

੩੩ ਸਵੈਯੇ - ੧੫/੨ - ਸ੍ਰੀ ਦਸਮ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ

ਏਕ ਕੋ ਛਾਡਿ ਅਨੇਕ ਭਜੇ ਸੁਕਦੇਵ ਪਰਾਸਰ ਬਯਾਸ ਝੁਠਾਨਯੋ ॥

Eeka Ko Chhaadi Aneka Bhaje Sukadev Paraasar Bayaasa Jhutthaanyo ॥

Relinquishing the One Lord, you remember many gods and goddesses

੩੩ ਸਵੈਯੇ - ੧੫/੩ - ਸ੍ਰੀ ਦਸਮ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ

ਫੋਕਟ ਧਰਮ ਸਜੇ ਸਬ ਹੀ ਹਮ ਏਕ ਹੀ ਕੌ ਬਿਧਿ ਨੇਕ ਪ੍ਰਮਾਨਯੋ ॥੧੫॥

Phokatta Dharma Saje Saba Hee Hama Eeka Hee Kou Bidhi Neka Parmaanyo ॥15॥

In this way you prove Shukdev, Prashar etc. as liars all the so-called religions are hollow I only accept the One Lord as the Providence.15.

੩੩ ਸਵੈਯੇ - ੧੫/(੪) - ਸ੍ਰੀ ਦਸਮ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ

ਕੋਊ ਦਿਜੇਸ ਕੁ ਮਾਨਤ ਹੈ ਅਰੁ ਕੋਊ ਮਹੇਸ ਕੋ ਏਸ ਬਤੈ ਹੈ ॥

Koaoo Dijesa Ku Maanta Hai Aru Koaoo Mahesa Ko Eesa Batai Hai ॥

Someone tells Brahma as the Lord-God and someone tells the same thing about Shiva

੩੩ ਸਵੈਯੇ - ੧੬/੧ - ਸ੍ਰੀ ਦਸਮ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ

ਕੋਊ ਕਹੈ ਬਿਸਨੋ ਬਿਸੁਨਾਇਕ ਜਾਹਿ ਭਜੇ ਅਘ ਓਘ ਕਟੈ ਹੈ ॥

Koaoo Kahai Bisano Bisunaaeika Jaahi Bhaje Agha Aogha Kattai Hai ॥

Someone considers Vishnu as the hero of the universe and says that only on remembering him, all the sins will be destroyed

੩੩ ਸਵੈਯੇ - ੧੬/੨ - ਸ੍ਰੀ ਦਸਮ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ

ਬਾਰ ਹਜਾਰ ਬਿਚਾਰ ਅਰੇ ਜੜ ਅੰਤ ਸਮੇ ਸਬ ਹੀ ਤਜਿ ਜੈ ਹੈ ॥

Baara Hajaara Bichaara Are Jarha Aanta Same Saba Hee Taji Jai Hai ॥

O fool ! think about it a thousand times, all of them will leave you at the time of death,

੩੩ ਸਵੈਯੇ - ੧੬/੩ - ਸ੍ਰੀ ਦਸਮ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ

ਤਾ ਹੀ ਕੋ ਧਯਾਨ ਪ੍ਰਮਾਨਿ ਹੀਏ ਜੋਊ ਕੇ ਅਬ ਹੈ ਅਰ ਆਗੈ ਊ ਹ੍ਵੈ ਹੈ ॥੧੬॥

Taa Hee Ko Dhayaan Parmaani Heeee Joaoo Ke Aba Hai Ar Aagai Aoo Havai Hai ॥16॥

Therefore, you should only meditate on Him, who is there in the present and who will also be there in future.16.

੩੩ ਸਵੈਯੇ - ੧੬/(੪) - ਸ੍ਰੀ ਦਸਮ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ

ਕੋਟਕ ਇੰਦ੍ਰ ਕਰੇ ਜਿਹ ਕੇ ਕਈ ਕੋਟਿ ਉਪਿੰਦ੍ਰ ਬਨਾਇ ਖਪਾਯੋ ॥

Kottaka Eiaandar Kare Jih Ke Kaeee Kotti Aupiaandar Banaaei Khpaayo ॥

He, who created crores of Indras and Upendras and then destroyed them

੩੩ ਸਵੈਯੇ - ੧੭/੧ - ਸ੍ਰੀ ਦਸਮ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ

ਦਾਨਵ ਦੇਵ ਫਨਿੰਦ੍ਰ ਧਰਾਧਰ ਪਛ ਪਸੂ ਨਹਿ ਜਾਤਿ ਗਨਾਯੋ ॥

Daanva Dev Phaniaandar Dharaadhar Pachha Pasoo Nahi Jaati Ganaayo ॥

He, who created innumerable gods, demons, Sheshnaga, tortoises, birds, animals etc.,

੩੩ ਸਵੈਯੇ - ੧੭/੨ - ਸ੍ਰੀ ਦਸਮ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ

ਆਜ ਲਗੇ ਤਪੁ ਸਾਧਤ ਹੈ ਸਿਵ ਊ ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਕਛੁ ਪਾਰ ਨ ਪਾਯੋ ॥

Aaja Lage Tapu Saadhata Hai Siva Aoo Barhamaa Kachhu Paara Na Paayo ॥

And for knowing whose Mystery, Shiva and Brahma are performing austerities even till today, but could not know His end

੩੩ ਸਵੈਯੇ - ੧੭/੩ - ਸ੍ਰੀ ਦਸਮ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ

ਬੇਦ ਕਤੇਬ ਨ ਭੇਦ ਲਖਯੋ ਜਿਹ ਸੋਊ ਗੁਰੂ ਗੁਰ ਮੋਹਿ ਬਤਾਯੋ ॥੧੭॥

Beda Kateba Na Bheda Lakhyo Jih Soaoo Guroo Gur Mohi Bataayo ॥17॥

He is such a Guru, whose Mystery could not be comprehended also by Vedas and Katebs and my Guru has told me the same thing.17.

੩੩ ਸਵੈਯੇ - ੧੭/(੪) - ਸ੍ਰੀ ਦਸਮ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ  

 

Fine then, i will go where my opinion is respected. Yes I will continue smashing my head on the stone floors of Durga, and it's none of your business either.

I guess Guru Arjun Dev Ji was also influenced by the RSS when he wrote the following, let's just blame the RSS unanimously without doing vichar of bani and trying to understand it, seems like a good idea. Guru Arjun Dev is calling Sri Ram Chander and Sri Krishna as roop of Akal Purakh and both were avtar of Maha Vishnu as well. Better remove that Dev from Guru Ji's name too, it seems too RSS inspired.

Ang 1082

Awpy sUrw Amru clwieAw ] (1082-1, mwrU, mÚ 5)
aapay sooraa amar chalaa-i-aa.
You Yourself are the hero, exerting Your regal power.

Awpy isv vrqweIAnu AMqir Awpy sIqlu Twru gVw ]13] (1082-1, mwrU, mÚ 5)
aapay siv //taa-ee-an antar aapay seetal thaar garhaa. ||13||
You Yourself spread peace within; You are cool and icy calm. ||13||

ijsih invwjy gurmuiK swjy ] (1082-2, mwrU, mÚ 5)
jisahi nivaajay gurmukh saajay.
One whom You bless and make Gurmukh

nwmu vsY iqsu Anhd vwjy ] (1082-2, mwrU, mÚ 5)
naam vasai tis anhad vaajay.
- the Naam abides within him, and the unstruck sound current vibrates for him.

iqs hI suKu iqs hI TkurweI iqsih n AwvY jmu nyVw ]14] (1082-2, mwrU, mÚ 5)
tis hee sukh tis hee thakuraa-ee tiseh na aavai jam nayrhaa. ||14||
He is peaceful, and he is the master of all; the Messenger of Death does not even approach him. ||14||

kImiq kwgd khI n jweI ] (1082-3, mwrU, mÚ 5)
keemat kaagad kahee na jaa-ee.
His value cannot be described on paper.

khu nwnk byAMq gusweI ] (1082-3, mwrU, mÚ 5)
kaho naanak bay-ant gusaa-ee.
Says Nanak, the Lord of the world is infinite.

Awid miD AMiq pRBu soeI hwiQ iqsY kY nybyVw ]15] (1082-3, mwrU, mÚ 5)
aad maDh ant parabh so-ee haath tisai kai naybayrhaa. ||15||
In the beginning, in the middle and in the end, God exists. Judgement is in His Hands alone. ||15||

iqsih srIku nwhI ry koeI ] (1082-4, mwrU, mÚ 5)
tiseh sareek naahee ray ko-ee.
No one is equal to Him.

iks hI buqY jbwbu n hoeI ] (1082-4, mwrU, mÚ 5)
kis hee butai jabaab na ho-ee.
No one can stand up against Him by any means.

nwnk kw pRBu Awpy Awpy kir kir vyKY coj KVw ]16]1]10] (1082-5, mwrU, mÚ 5)
naanak kaa parabh aapay aapay kar kar vaykhai choj kharhaa. ||16||1||10||
Nanak's God is Himself all-in-all. He creates and stages and watches His wondrous plays. ||16||1||10||

mwrU mhlw 5 ] (1082-5)
maaroo mehlaa 5.
Maaroo, Fifth Mehl:

Acuq pwrbRhm prmysur AMqrjwmI ] (1082-6, mwrU, mÚ 5)
achut paarbarahm parmaysur antarjaamee.
The Supreme Lord God is imperishable, the Transcendent Lord, the Inner-knower, the Searcher of hearts.

mDusUdn dwmodr suAwmI ] (1082-6, mwrU, mÚ 5)
maDhusoodan daamodar su-aamee.
He is the Slayer of demons, our Supreme Lord and Master.

irKIkys govrDn DwrI murlI mnohr hir rMgw ]1] (1082-6, mwrU, mÚ 5)
rikheekays govarDhan Dhaaree murlee manohar har rangaa. ||1||
The Supreme Rishi, the Master of the sensory organs, the uplifter of mountains, the joyful Lord playing His enticing flute. ||1||

mohn mwDv ik®s˜ murwry ] (1082-7, mwrU, mÚ 5)
mohan maaDhav krisan muraaray.
The Enticer of Hearts, the Lord of wealth, Krishna, the Enemy of ego.

jgdIsur hir jIau Asur sMGwry ] (1082-7, mwrU, mÚ 5)
jagdeesur har jee-o asur sanghaaray.
The Lord of the Universe, the Dear Lord, the Destroyer of demons.

jgjIvn AibnwsI Twkur Gt Gt vwsI hY sMgw ]2] (1082-7, mwrU, mÚ 5)
jagjeevan abhinaasee thaakur ghat ghat vaasee hai sangaa. ||2||
The Life of the World, our eternal and ever-stable Lord and Master dwells within each and every heart, and is always with us. ||2||

DrxIDr eIs nrisMG nwrwiex ] (1082-8, mwrU, mÚ 5)
DharneeDhar ees narsingh naaraa-in.
The Support of the Earth, the man-lion, the Supreme Lord God.

dwVw AgRy ipRQim Drwiex ] (1082-8, mwrU, mÚ 5)
daarhaa agray paritham Dharaa-in.
The Protector who tears apart demons with His teeth, the Upholder of the earth.

bwvn rUpu kIAw quDu krqy sB hI syqI hY cMgw ]3] (1082-9, mwrU, mÚ 5)
baavan roop kee-aa tuDh kartay sabh hee saytee hai changa. ||3||
O Creator, You assumed the form of the pygmy to humble the demons; You are the Lord God of all. ||3||

sRI rwmcMd ijsu rUpu n ryiKAw ] (1082-9, mwrU, mÚ 5)
saree raamchand jis roop na raykh-i-aa.
You are the Great Raam Chand, who has no form or feature.

bnvwlI ck®pwix dris AnUipAw ] (1082-10, mwrU, mÚ 5)
banvaalee chakarpaan daras anoopi-aa.
Adorned with flowers, holding the chakra in Your hand, Your form is incomparably beautiful.

shs nyqR mUriq hY shsw ieku dwqw sB hY mMgw ]4] (1082-10, mwrU, mÚ 5)
sahas naytar moorat hai sahsaa ik daataa sabh hai mangaa. ||4||
You have thousands of eyes, and thousands of forms. You alone are the Giver, and all are beggars of You. ||4||

Bgiq vClu AnwQh nwQy ] (1082-11, mwrU, mÚ 5)
bhagat vachhal anaathah naathay.
You are the Lover of Your devotees, the Master of the masterless.

gopI nwQu sgl hY swQy ] (1082-11, mwrU, mÚ 5)
gopee naath sagal hai saathay.
The Lord and Master of the milk-maids, You are the companion of all.

bwsudyv inrMjn dwqy brin n swkau gux AMgw ]5] (1082-11, mwrU, mÚ 5)
baasudayv niranjan daatay baran na saaka-o gun angaa. ||5||
O Lord, Immacuate Great Giver, I cannot describe even an iota of Your Glorious Virtues. ||5||

mukMd mnohr lKmI nwrwiex ] (1082-12, mwrU, mÚ 5)
mukand manohar lakhmee naaraa-in.
Liberator, Enticing Lord, Lord of Lakshmi, Supreme Lord God.

dRopqI ljw invwir auDwrx ] (1082-12, mwrU, mÚ 5)
daropatee lajaa nivaar uDhaaran.
Savior of Dropadi's honor.

kmlwkMq krih kMqUhl And ibnodI inhsMgw ]6] (1082-12, mwrU, mÚ 5)
kamlaakant karahi kantoohal anad binodee nihsangaa. ||6||
Lord of Maya, miracle-worker, absorbed in delightful play, unattached. ||6||

AmoG drsn AwjUnI sMBau ] (1082-13, mwrU, mÚ 5)
amogh darsan aajoonee sambha-o.
The Blessed Vision of His Darshan is fruitful and rewarding; He is not born, He is self-existent.

Akwl mUriq ijsu kdy nwhI Kau ] (1082-13, mwrU, mÚ 5)
akaal moorat jis kaday naahee kha-o.
His form is undying; it is never destroyed.

AibnwsI Aibgq Agocr sBu ikCu quJ hI hY lgw ]7] (1082-14, mwrU, mÚ 5)
abhinaasee abigat agochar sabh kichh tujh hee hai lagaa. ||7||
O imperishable, eternal, unfathomable Lord, everything is attached to You. ||7||

sRIrMg bYkuMT ky vwsI ] (1082-14, mwrU, mÚ 5)
sareerang baikunth kay vaasee.
The Lover of greatness, who dwells in heaven.

mCu kCu kUrmu AwigAw AauqrwsI ] (1082-15, mwrU, mÚ 5)
machh kachh kooram aagi-aa a-utraasee.
By the Pleasure of His Will, He took incarnation as the great fish and the tortoise.

kysv clq krih inrwly kIqw loVih so hoiegw ]8] (1082-15, mwrU, mÚ 5)
kaysav chalat karahi niraalay keetaa lorheh so ho-igaa. ||8||
The Lord of beauteous hair, the Worker of miraculous deeds, whatever He wishes, comes to pass. ||8||

inrwhwrI inrvYru smwieAw ] (1082-16, mwrU, mÚ 5)
niraahaaree nirvair samaa-i-aa.
He is beyond need of any sustenance, free of hate and all-pervading.

Dwir Kylu cqurBuju khwieAw ] (1082-16, mwrU, mÚ 5)
Dhaar khayl chaturbhuj kahaa-i-aa.
He has staged His play; He is called the four-armed Lord.

swvl suMdr rUp bxwvih byxu sunq sB mohYgw ]9] (1082-16, mwrU, mÚ 5)
saaval sundar roop banaaveh bayn sunat sabh mohaigaa. ||9||
He assumed the beautiful form of the blue-skinned Krishna; hearing His flute, all are fascinated and enticed. ||9||

bnmwlw ibBUKn kml nYn ] (1082-17, mwrU, mÚ 5)
banmaalaa bibhookhan kamal nain.
He is adorned with garlands of flowers, with lotus eyes.

suMdr kuMfl mukt bYn ] (1082-17, mwrU, mÚ 5)
sundar kundal mukat bain.
His ear-rings, crown and flute are so beautiful.

sMK ck® gdw hY DwrI mhw swrQI sqsMgw ]10] (1082-17, mwrU, mÚ 5)
sankh chakar gadaa hai Dhaaree mahaa saarthee satsangaa. ||10||
He carries the conch, the chakra and the war club; He is the Great Charioteer, who stays with His Saints. ||10||

pIq pIqMbr iqRBvx DxI ] (1082-18, mwrU, mÚ 5)
peet peetambar taribhavan Dhanee.
The Lord of yellow robes, the Master of the three worlds.

jgMnwQu gopwlu muiK BxI ] (1082-18, mwrU, mÚ 5)
jagannaath gopaal mukh bhanee.
The Lord of the Universe, the Lord of the world; with my mouth, I chant His Name.

swirMgDr Bgvwn bITulw mY gxq n AwvY srbMgw ]11] (1082-18, mwrU, mÚ 5)
saaringDhar bhagvaan beethulaa mai ganat na aavai sarbangaa. ||11||
The Archer who draws the bow, the Beloved Lord God; I cannot count all His limbs. ||11||

inhkMtku inhkyvlu khIAY ] (1082-19, mwrU, mÚ 5)
nihkantak nihkayval kahee-ai.
He is said to be free of anguish, and absolutely immaculate.

DnµjY jil Qil hY mhIAY ] (1082-19, mwrU, mÚ 5)
Dhananjai jal thal hai mahee-ai.
The Lord of prosperity, pervading the water, the land and the sky.

Oh my God now I'm an "RSS agent." Wow what a great way to completely defuse someone's argument when they have been providing proof straight from the Gurbani as well. You guys are pathetic. 

I guess Bhat Kal Ji must have been "paid" by the RSS when he wrote these lines in Guru Granth Sahib: 

"Nanak enjoyed the Rajyog as in -his heart dwelt the Peerless Lord.

He saved the whole world, dwelling upon His Name alone.

Sanak and Janak sung his praises, coyntless did alike, throughout ages,

Blessed is Guru Nanak, who took Avtar in human form, and came to earth.

Says Kal the poet, "His victory was hailed all over the earth"

And it echoed in the underworld as well.

O, Guru Nanak! You are blessed by the Lord, as He lovingly, dwells in you.(6)

During Satyug, you enjoyed the state of Rajyog,

When you overpowered Bali by becoming a dwarf,

During Treta Yug you were named Rama the king of Raghu clan

During Duapar Yug you were known as Krishna who liberated Kansa

You granted the kingdom to Ugrasena and blest your lovers with fearlessness.

During Kalyug you were called Nanak, Angad and Amardas,

Everlasting and static is your rule,

As this is the will of the Eternal Lord.

Adi Granth p.1390"

That is incorrect, When Akal first created anything, it was Ad Shakti Durga, and the 3 chale that are 'parvaan' aka Brahma, Vishnu, and Shiva. Akal himself is Nirankar, meaning no form at all, or Formless, when he projected Shakti forward Durga and the 3 Dev emerged, Durga took avtar in 3 forms as Shakti to become Saraswati, Laxmi, and Parvati. Akal Purakh himself has no Form, which is also discussed in Jaap Sahib, at best this formlessness is described as "prakash" or a Light.

Brahma, Vishnu, Shiva, along with Durga are Akal Purakhs arms in sargun form that manages Akal's Creation: Brahma creates as per hukum, Shiva destroys as per hukum, and Vishnu sustains and cares for as per Akali hukum. They were born with haumai but were also the first in existence to transcend Haumai and become Brahm Gyani, that is why they are the "tin chalay parvaan" or approved 3 Sikhs of Akal. Shiva was the first one to transcend EGO, which is why he is also called MahaDev, like when a human aka purash becomes Brahm Gyan, that purash is called a Maha-Purash, when the Dev became as such they eventually became Maha-Devs. Vishnu, Brahma, and Shiva through their own bhagti on Akal became Akali and act in Akal's Hukum.

Maya is defined as that which distracts one from inner spirituality, Maya is defined as Kam, Krodh, Moh, Lobh, and Hankar; not Brahma Vishnu and Shiva who are creating, sustaining, and destroying the Universe as per hukum, they are not involved in increasing anyone's Kam krodh, that is your own Karma, your own self created Maya. The Dev have always done their best to help humanity realize what they themselves realized long ago, which is Akal Purakh. The opposite to Devta is Daint, or Demon, or those with demon like mindsets, minds who rather spend time in Kam, Krodh rather than spiritual enlightenment and who encourage others in to controversy and the same.

This is one of the reasons why we call Guru Nanak as Guru Nanak DEV, and not Guru Nanak DAINT. Guru Nanak's true identity is also written in Guru Granth Sahib by Bhat Kalsar (Bhat Kal), Guru Nanak has been taking avtar in various forms throughout the Yugs to help humanity, you just did not recognize who he was behind the disguise or avtar.

That is why we say that the Guru is "Yugo Yugo Atal," ie present in all Yugs: Sat, Treta, Dwapr, and Kal.

No, you are very closed minded. You have this interpretation of Sikhism which you think is the only right one and are unwilling to accept anything different although the proof is presented right in the Granth Sahib to which you bow to. 

Today's Sikh is no Sikh, they are self-proclaimed Gurus who already know everything. 

3 hours ago, dallysingh101 said:

These people are such a bunch of tossers that theoretically if aliens from Jupiter invaded earth and subjugated it, they'd run around telling everyone they were descendents of the new rulers pointing out (in earnest....) how the 'Jup' in Jupiter sounds a lot like Jut as irrefutable evidence. lol

The Skandinavian Book of Edda states that the Jutes/Geats/Gots were Jatts of North India, as stated and translated by James Todd, not me. 

I am having an honest debate here, I have  provided a rebuttal to their points at the end of page 2, it would be nice if they can try and refute it with some sort of concrete logic or proof. 

I have done my best to provide a logical reason as to why Jeona Maur was a devotee of Naina Devi.