sikhphilosophy

Gurfateh Inder Singh and Respected SS Members ji,

My apologies for a long write up actually taken from my conversation with Inder ji today (here: http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/leaders/2558...brother-2.html), I usually do not indulge in this but i have to make SPN's point of view clear on his accusations.

Inder Singh ji, i fail to understand what do you mean by supporting someone. Let us enlist, what kind of accusations you have made against SPN members:

1 You accuse SPN members for Supporting Kala Afgana; then

2 You accuse SPN members for Supporting Sumra; then

3 You accuse SPN members for Supporting Gyani Jarnail Singh;

4 You accuse SPN members for Supporting Vaheguruseeker;

5 You accuse SPN members for Supporting Prof. Darshan Singh;

6 You accuse SPN members for Supporting Vijaydeep singh; (my apologies you are a supporter of vijaydeep Singh!);

7 You accuse SPN members for Supporting Flana & Timkana ;

So, basically, you accuse everybody who does not adhere to your own way of thinking. It seems that the whole world has stopped evolving ever since you established a view point on a particular topic. This is very lame Inder Singh ji, very hypocritical of you.

This diversity of views and acceptance of various view points is what makes SPN unique. You have written 400+ posts in this forum and out of these there is not even a single post, or i may put if quite mildly, you have miserably failed to to share what are your views on that given topic. All you have managed to done is cut and paste from internet and then;

7 You even accused SPN members for infringing copyrights. If we make a case of copyright infringements then you would be culprit number one.

8 And then, You accuse SPN administration for deleting most of rubbish you copy and paste from internet;

i can go on adding to the list of accusations Inder Singh ji and his supporters have made at SPN forum.

Are you not tired of accusing all and everybody day in day out. You need to get a chill pill i think.

Inder Singh ji and i must add, your undercover supporters like Singh ji from Canada, you have to learn that there can be multiple perspectives on the same topic and there are bound to some people's personal views going to adhere with someone's else point of view. It is quite naive to go on accusing all and sundry, especially. when you and your so called supporters have failed miserably to indulge in any kind of constructive discussions. We disparately need to look beneath our own dirty collars sometimes.

There are more 8500 members at SPN and so you would accuse all of them to be anti-panthic! Right? I am least bothered about who are your supporters etc.

Its an irony that lack of agenda at SPN to few people like you looks like an agenda in itself... the only things that has been deleted from your cut and paste job is baseless personal attacks on fellow members, which are your only addition to the these posts and which have nothing to do with topic. As a matter of policy Any personal attacks, insults are removed without notice. And proclaimed offenders will be encouraged to leave the network.

You keep on bragging about Panthic views:

Whose views are these?

Where are these views written?

Are they documented Sikh Dharma Views?

Who and when wrote these views?

If you could have managed to post even a single panthic views duly supported by any so called Panthic authorities then we would have surely like to keep them posted.

And, one thing more you have to understand is that if a members express his views that does not mean it is engraved on wall and supported by SPN. This is very important to understand that these so called anti-Panthic views do exist and we need to create a kind of intelligence to tackle such views... SPN provides you this ground to nullify so called panthic views but all people like you can do is accuse baseless, you are only exposing your own lack of competency nothing more. This has been the fate of Sikh philosophy lately. We have failed miserably to counter these so-called anti-panthic views.

Rest later...

Enjoy this platform that SPN has given you to enrich your and others lives and evolve. Stop wasting your precious time accusing others when there so much dirt to be cleaned in house.

Best Regards

Aman Singh

I am not sure if this is already posted, I would request the sikhsangat administrator to make this thread sticky as well as show it prominenetly on main sikhsangat page if not already done. Thank You,

Best Regards

Guru Pyare Khalsa Jio,

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa

Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh,

On January 1st 2006, the World will have voted for the new Seven Wonders of the World following the seven ancient wonders of the world, namely

• The Mausoleum at Halicarnassus

• The Colossus of Rhodes

• The Hanging Gardens of Babylon

• The Lighthouse at Alexandria

• The Statue of Zeus

• The Temple of Artemis

• The Pyramids of Egypt

One of the nominated sites to be chosen as the New Wonder of The World is the Golden Temple in Amrtisar. In order for Sri Harimander Sahib Ji to be chosen as one of the new Seven Wonders of the World, WE ALL NEED TO VOTE.

Recently I was selected as the UK Ambassador for the Wonder of World Project, which means I'm promoting the New Seven Wonders of The World Project in the UK.

If you want Sri Harimander Sahib Ji to be chosen, then please click on the link below, which will take you to the Global Voting Platform.

http://www.n7w.com/vote/ambassador/4393

You all have until the end of Februray 2005 to register your votes for the new Seven Wonders of the World. In March 2005, the 21 shortlisted nominated sites will go forward to the ne

xt stage of voting. From the 21 shortlisted sites, 7 will be chosen as the New Wonders of the World at midnight, January 1st 2006.

Remember you can vote as many times as you want, but make sure it's before 28th February 2005.

How to get your vote counted…………………

Click on the link above – This will take you to the Global Nomination Platform

Click on the tick box at the bottom of the page that you agree to terms & Conditions and follow instructions on page

Scroll down towards the bottom of the page and look for the nominee table. Scroll down with the arrow to Golden Temple, Amritsar, India. Highlight and click on the site.

Underneath nominee, is nominees by country, scroll down with the arrow to Golden Temple, Amritsar, India. Highlight and click on the site, then follow instructions.

Select the country your from and follow the instructions.

In order to have your vote counted, you will need a personal code.

All you need to do is SMS the following numbers to receive your 6 digit code. The code is valid for one use only, and for one hour only from the time of your call.

SMS Line for UK

Send message ‘N7W’ to 63333 you will then receive a code by SMS

If you don’t have a mobile phone the telephone number is Telephone line for the UK is

09050530490 – Charge (0.5p)

Once you have received you 6 digit code, enter it into the entry box at the bottom of the website page and register your vote.

Please inform all your friends and family, so that they can also vote for Sri Harimander Sahib Ji as one of the New Wonders of the World. Forward this email to as many people as possible.

If the Golden Temple is chosen as one of the new Seven Wonders of the World, it will put Sikhs and the Golden Temple on the global map, with the combination of World-Wide television exposure, lasting tourism and image benefits. All new Seven Wonders of the World will be announced live on television across the world.

During the unique and

historic event – The Official declaration of the New 7 Wonders of the World – humanity will come together to announce the chosen seven. For the first time in over 2000 years, and maybe never again for another 2000 years, history will be made.

N7W will appoint one venue, one city, as the Official Host venue for the Declaration.

Bhull Chuk Di Khema Karni,

Guru Ji Da, Sikh Panth Da Nimana Nitana Sevadar

Phaldip Singh

For further information email

phaldip@yahoo.co.uk

Fateh Ji

For those who may be looking for a break from philosophizing some times !!! :wub: )))) !!!

On behalf of Sikh Philosophy Network, i take this opportunity to introduce you all, for the first time on a Sikh Network, an Online Gaming Zone... its Free and it's already a big hit with my network members which include people from all age groups and so i thought you might also be interested !!

You can join The SPN Gaming Arena simply by clicking here --> Invitiation to Join The SPN Gaming Zone !!

So, if you think you're the best !?! Prove it! Earn your trophies ! Showcase your exploits ;-)

Enjoy Life and have a galla time !!

Best Regards

Fateh Ji

Please add the following weblink as well under sikh resource links...

Sikh Philosophy Network

www.sikhphilosophy.net

Chardi Kalaa

Fateh Ji

Here is the response to Muslim Propaganda from Sikh Scholar Gurmukh Singh.

This is a most regrettable, irresponsible, provocative

and bigoted nonsense from Al-Muhajiroun, UK.

Ludicrous statements like the following do much damage

to Islam.

> The Seal of Messengers, Prophet Mohammad (saw)

> said that at the lowest level of Paradise each

> person will have up to 10,000 servants!

The author's challenge is:

> So, the message to any Sikh and Hindu is do your

> research and ask yourself "are you Sikh or Hindu

> because you really want to be or is it because

> your parents are". Remember, on the Day of

> Judgment, no religion will be accepted from

> Allah except Islam. Come to Trafalgar Square on

> the 25th July 2004 and give up your false beliefs

> and accept the perfect and embrace Deen of

> Al-Islam.

Let us do some research into this "Deen of Al-Islam"

The research says:

PLEASE DO GIVE YOUR REAL SCHOLARS AT LEAST A FIGHTING

CHANCE TO SAVE YOUR FAITH IN THE 21ST CENTURY! WE ARE

EVEN PREPARED TO ACCEPT THE MOST LIBERAL

INTERPRETATION OF YOUR RELIGIOUS METAPHOR AND

ALLEGORY! NOW READ ON:

Let us start "In the Name of the Allah, the Merciful,

the Compassionate" :

Is this the religion being compared with Sikhism?

(GGS= Guru Granth Sahib HQ = Holy Quran SM=Sahih

Muslim by Abdul Hamid Sadiqi Lahore SB= Sahih Bukhari

Sharif Ishait-al-Islam Delhi)

Is

this "Allah, the Merciful, the Compassionate"??

Slavery is permitted in Islam (HQ 4:3). Bilal was

Prophet Muhammad's slave and the Prophet's cousin

Zubair (son of Abu Bakar) had 1000 slaves. A Muslim,

who emancipates a Muslim slave, Allah saves every limb

of his from fire for every limb of the slave, even his

private parts for him" (SM 3604 SB 693V.3 B.46)).

Islam does not condemn slavery.

Slavery is not condoned in Sikhism in any form

whatsoever. Indeed the Guru proclaimed in no uncertain

terms:

"The Gracious Lord has now decreed, "None shall

oppress or inflict pain on another. All shall abide in

peace as the regime shall be compassionate."

(GGS p.74)

Islamic treatment of women and view about sex etc: A

woman's testimony (Shahadah) has half the weight of a

man's (HQ 2: 282, 4:177). When inheritance is to be

shared "A male is equal to the portion of two

females."(SM 3933 HQ4: 177) A man can divorce his wife

by simply saying "Talaaq, talaaq, talaaq" three times

(HQ 2:229-230,SM 3491-93).

Adultery and pornication are punishable in Islam but

not if committed with women captured in war (SM 3234).

A Muslim can also beat his wife (SM, Trimidhi and HQ

4:34). If a slave girl commits adultery she should be

lashed. If she does it thrice then she should be sold

even for a hair rope.(SB 362,435,731 V.3 B.46) Talaaq

literally means, "undoing the knot". A man cannot

marry the same woman twice until she has married

another man and divorced him (Ihya 2:230). "The

proportion of rights and powers between male and

female, as laid down by Islam, naturally demand that

out of the two parties only the former should be

entitled to pronounce divorce" (Maulana Moududi quoted

in CIS page 110)

"Islam allows the conversion of female slaves into

concubines with whom relations

are legitimate

without the necessity of marriage. Once they have been

allotted to

their masters they become their property"

(Maulana Moududi quoted in CIS page 112 Also see HQ

4-3) (SM 3432-34)". The Prophet's wife Safia (wife of

Kinana) was a captive at the battle of Khaibar. So

were Rihana and Juwariya (SM 4292 Also see Sirat Rasul

Allah pages 493 and 517)

"And all married women (are forbidden unto you) save

those (captives) whom your right hand possesses. It is

a decree of Allah for you" (HQ 4:24)

"Force not your slave girls to whoredom that ye may

seek enjoyment of the life of the world, if they would

preserve their chastity. And if one forces them, then

Allah, after their compulsion, is All-forgiving,

All-compassionate " HQ 24:33.

"Islam allows the conversion of female slaves into

concubines with whom relations

are legitimate

without the necessity of marriage. Once they have been

allotted to their masters they become their property"

(Maulana Moududi quoted in CIS page 112 Also see HQ

4-3) (SM 3432-34)"

"And all married women (are forbidden unto you) save

those (captives) whom your right hand possesses. It is

a decree of Allah for you" (HQ 4:24)

Islam defines different rights and responsibilities of

men and women.

"Men are in charge of women because Allah hath made

the one to excel the other and because they spend

their property (for the support of women)"(HQ4: 34).

Polygamy is permissible and allows up to four women

(HQ 4:3). The Quran instructs "you will not be able to

deal equally between (your) wives however much ye wish

to do so but turn not altogether away (from one)

leaving her as in suspense." (HQ 4: 129). A woman is

entitled to a dowry (mehar) and a lawful maintenance

(nafqah) but the domination of a husband is paramount,

"Your women are like a tilth for you (to cultivate),

go unto your tilth as ye will"(HQ 2:223 SM 3363). "Had

it not been for Eve, women would never have acted

unfaithfully towards

their husbands."(SM 3471)

However, "Thy women have rights similar to those (of

men) over them in kindness, and men are a degree above

them"(HQ 2: 228). "As for those from whom ye fear

rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds

apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek

not a way against them."(HQ 4:34-35). "Serving a

husband is obligatory since her husband is named her

master in Allah's Book and she is a captive with him

as is shown in the Sunnah of Allah's

Messenger"(Adaab-uz-Zufaaf by Muhammad Nasir-ud-din

page 47). " As for those of your women who are guilty

of lewdness, call to witness four of you against them.

And if they testify (to the truth of the allegation),

then confine them to the houses until death take them

or (until) Allah appoint for them a way (through the

new legislation)"(HQ 4:15) Accoring to Islam " Never

will succeed such a nation as makes a woman their

ruler" (SB 219 V.9 B.88). "No lady should travel on a

journey of two days except with her husband or a

Dhi-Mahram"(SB 215 V3 B31)

Islamic dress for women

There are no restrictions on what men wear. Burqa or

Hijab is a contraption used by the Muslim women to

keep their bodies covered except for the eyes (HQ

33:59, 24:31). Sharia requires women to dress up with

clothes meeting the following criteria

(Adaab-uz-Zufaaf page30).

1. The whole body must be covered except for the oval

of the face and the two hands.

2. The material of the cloth must not be decorative.

3. The material must be thick enough to be opaque.

4. The dress must be loose enough as not to make clear

the shape of the

body.

5. A woman must never wear perfume in public.

6. The dress must not resemble the dress worn by men.

7. The dress must not resemble that worn by

disbelieving women.

8. The dress must not be ostentatious.

Sikhism treats women as equal to men and forbids

adultery or beating of women in any situation. "Lik

e

the companionship of a poisonous snake is the desire

of another's woman"(GGS P.403). Ill treatment of women

captured in war is strictly forbidden. This is what we

read about Sardar Sham Singh Attariwala, "It was

disorder, anarchy and confusion in Punjab, they moved

from Malwa to Majha. Just before settling at Attari

and the process of establishing their control they

came across a helpless Muhammadan bride of the nearby

Amir of Sarai Salamat Khan. The manner in which they

returned her to the Amir became a legend and people

still give example of their noble and moral character"

(Ranjit Singh's Khalsa Raj and Attariwala Sardars,'

National Book Depot Delhi 1944 Edition page 14.)

Sikhism preaches complementary roles of men and women

in all social spheres. However, women are not debarred

from any activities carried out by men; nor are they

restricted to any special dress. Indeed, although

there is a traditional Panjabi dress for women

(salwar, kameez and a light material head cloth), they

may dress exactly like men and go to battle if need

be. Some famous Sikh women have in fact led armies to

battle.

Islamic intolerance: "One who chooses to follow the

code revealed by God becomes a Muslim and one who

refuses to follow it becomes a Kafir."(The Religion of

Islam by Khurshid Ahmed page 4). "Believers are God's

party but un-believers are Devil's party"(HQ4: 76).

"Allah (Himself) is an enemy to the disbelievers" (HQ

2:15, 90,98). "Accursed, they will be seized wherever

found and slain with a (fierce) slaughter (HQ 33:61).

The tribes of Uraina and Ukl had their hands and legs

cut off, their eyes gouged out and no water was given

to them. They died a slow and painful death. (SB 577)

Sikhism: The nearest word to kafir in Sikhism is

sakat. In Gurbani it is used for those who do not

believe in the existence of God. Unlike Islam, Sikhism

does not order killing of such persons but does ad

vise

to avoid their company. "Shun the company of sakat,

keep him at an arm's length"(GGS p. 1371). Whatever

the extent of enmity, Sikhism does not sanction cruel

treatment. Guru Gobind Singh blessed Bhai Kanhaya when

the latter offered water and assistance to the fallen

enemy in the battlefield. The Guru also instructed him

to treat the wounds of the enemies.

"The True Guru has no anger or vengeance and preaches

the same. He looks upon son and enemy alike. He helps

in removing faults and mistakes and thus purifies the

human body"(GGS 960)

Superstition:

Prophet Muhammad preferred always to travel only on a

Thursday, which is considered auspicious. (SB 199

V.4.B.52) "The year is of twelve months out of which

four months (Dhul Qa'da, Dhul Hijja, Muharrum and

Rajab) are sacred."(SB 419 V4 B54)

In Sikhism no day or month is considered more

auspicious than the others are.

"The same moon rises, the same stars, the same sun

shines in the sky, the earth remains the same and the

same wind blows. How can it be then that some times

are sacred and the others not?" (GGS P.902)

Sacrifice or cruelty to animals? :

All adult Muslims are supposed to sacrifice an animal

on Id-al-Adha (SM 4818-4835) because "There is a

reward annexed to every hair of the animal sacrifice"

(Trimidhi V.1-1392). "On the day of judgement the

horns, hair and hoofs of the sacrificed animal fall in

the pan of pious deeds and thus cancel out the

misdeeds of the devotees"(Mishkwat –al- Masabih Book 4

.Chapter 49-2)

According to Sikhism animal sacrifice has no spiritual

merit and is strictly forbidden.

"The use of force is tyranny even if you call it

halal. When your account is called for in the court of

the Lord, what will your predicament be then?"

(GGS Page 1374)

Sikhism believes in sacrifice for a noble cause or for

the good of humanity when necessary. Guru Gobind

Singh, at Chamkau

r, dressed and sent his own two sons

to the battle in a spirit of sacrifice for the right

cause.

Service with humility (sewa), sharing one's food and

earnings with the needy, treading the righteous path

regardless of cost, and inner detachment while living

a full life, is the Guru's way of sacrifice. Sikhism

preaches that a real sacrifice is to lay down one's

own life for a noble cause.

Religious war: Islamic view:

Jihad is defined by H.G. Koenigsberger as "Spreading

Islam by war."

"The various means employed by an Islamic state to

spread Islam are called jihad, if they involve strife

and struggle. The more popular form of jihad is holy

war"(CIS p.54)

"Fight against such of those who have been given the

Scripture as believe not in Allah nor the Last Day,

and forbid not that which Allah hath forbidden by His

Messenger, and follow not the religion of truth, until

they pay the tribute readily, being brought low." (HQ

9:29)

Regarding the spoils of war the Holy Quran says, "Now

enjoy ye what you have won, as lawful and good" (HQ

8:69,48:15). "If a town disobeys Allah and the

Messenger one fifth of the booty seized therefrom is

for Allah and His Apostle and the rest is for you"

said Muhammad (SM 4346)

Sikhism is opposed to spreading religion through war.

The nearest concept to Jihad is dharam yudh (fight for

justice or the righteous cause). Use of force for

propagating religion or for changing another's

ideology or point of view runs contrary to Sikh belief

and practice. The divinely inspired compositions of

Muslim and Hindu saints have been included in Sri Guru

Granth Sahib and given the same status as the hymns of

the Sikh Gurus.

Sikhism, therefore, demonstrably preaches that no

single ideology has the monopoly of access to God or

the Ultimate Truth. The Sikh Guru went further when

Guru Tegh Bahadhur (Nanak IX) gave his life to uphold

another's right o

f worship in his own way. Sikh Gurus

were fully aware of the need for the use of arms for

defending freedom of religious ideology and the

geo-political implications which were bound to flow

from it. The concept of Khalsa Raj and the just

theo-political aspirations of the Sikhs have brought

(and continue to bring) the Sikh nation into armed

conflict with authoritarian regimes. In certain

circumstances, when all other means have failed,

resort to arms is considered legitimate. Guru Tegh

Bahadur's injunction is:

"Frighten none and accept fear from no-one." (GGS p.

1427)

Guru Nanak's followers could not shirk their

responsibility towards other fellow beings nor could

they accept fear from anyone. Guru Nanak spoke out

against social, political and administrative injustice

and he expected his followers to do the same. The Sikh

Gurus and the bhagats (saints), whose compositions are

recorded in the Holy Granth, were well aware of the

need for resorting to arms for defending human rights

and the freedom of religious ideologies.

"The true warrior is one who fights in defence of the

downtrodden."

(GGS p. 1105)

"When all attempts to obtain justice fail, it is

legitimate to move the hand to the hilt of the sword."

(Guru Gobind Singh's Zafarnama to Moghul Emperor

Aurangzeb).

the logo doesn't stay the same. The current banner is only up in remebrance of 84, which makes sense. The banner changes systematically, so u also get happy, motivating ones.

Ok guys that made sense and that option of showing the all logos from time to time is a genuine idea :wub:

Regards

Isn't Sikhism all about keeping the emotions at neutral levels... there should be happy moments too to savour for sikhi... why aren't there people like athlete fauja singh... alive and kicking sikhs...?

Has the time come to a standstill for Sikhi after 1984 ?

Fateh Ji,

This is my one of first posts in this forum, its certainly a gr8 forum... :wub: ) but i was thinking, what does the main logo of SikhSangat.com convey to a visitor --> Sikhi in utter Chaos

--> Why such a depressing logo for a Chardi Kalaa discusion forum...

Best Regards

How to Attain Yoga... A beautiful Shabad...

Yoga (A Hindu theistic philosophy; union of self and the Supreme Being is sought through a state of complete awareness and tranquillity attained by certain physical exercises)

Guru Says :: Yoga is not attained by putting on a patched coat, Yoga is not attained with a walking stick in hand. Yoga is not smearing the body with ashes and wandering about aimlessly. Yoga is not wearing the ear-rings, and not the shaven heads. Yoga is not the blowing of the horns (Yogies/Saints blow loud horns as if to awake the Almighty from sleep.). Remaining unblemished in the midst of the filth of the world - this is the way to attain Yoga. ||1||

By mere words, Yoga is not attained. One who looks upon all with a single eye, and knows them to be one and the same - he alone is known as a Yogi. ||1||Pause|| Yoga is not wandering to the tombs of the dead; Yoga is not sitting in trances. Yoga is not wandering through foreign lands; Yoga is not bathing at sacred shrines of pilgrimage. Remaining unblemished in the midst of the filth of the world - this is the way to attain Yoga. ||2||

Meeting with the True Guru, doubt is dispelled, and the wandering mind is restrained. Nectar rains down, celestial music resounds, and deep within, wisdom is obtained. Remaining unblemished in the midst of the filth of the world - this is the way to attain Yoga. ||3||

O Nanak, remain dead while yet alive (means:: live life and face the world with strength but even then do not get attached to worldly things) - practice such a Yoga. When the horn (mentioned in f

irst stanza) is blown in our heart and mind without being manually blown, then you shall attain the state of fearless dignity. Remaining unblemished in the midst of the filth of the world - this is the way to attain Yoga. ||4||1||8||

Page 730 SGGS Ji

Well the poll excludes me... i mean myself as a option...