The Voice of the Voiceless

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa! Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!! -------------------------------------------------------------------------- "...tis hee kee ot sadeev..." -Guru Granth Sahib Ji, 896 -------------------------------------------------------------------------- "we know what we want. " I know, you want death. "voiceless i think you should leave or stay voiceless." It is the Voice of the Voiceless. Get it right the first time. You'll attack the messenger but you can't attack the message. I'll prove it to you. "Bhindrawala would have made sure someone like him was voiceless. " My Sant Jarnail Bhindrawala Ji would silence me for your cause? This is hilarious. Baba Jarnail Bhindrawala Ji said to be wary of the "death of consiousness". Many of your consious minds have perished. "Someone has to stop the hate on the internet against Sikhs. We love peace, but we hate everything about hindus. Our Gurus taught us to stand up for ourselves. " Hate against Sikhs is wrong. Hate against Hindus is right. On the princi ple that all Hindus hated Sikhs first, am I right? The Gurus would be ashamed to call you such a person as Sikh. The first hater and the second hater are one and the same. Not attached to religion at all. "We will aggressively stand up and IGNITE those that stand in our way." You definately love peace veerji. And Pukhandeebunga agrees with this statement? All of you agree with this statement? "There is only one path to Khalistan. War. It is only natural because we will take what is ours and we are not afraid of using force. Resistence is futile. Sikhism will take over the world and then the world will be perfect." Resistence is futile? How can Sikhism be Absolute truth if people out there will resist it. Sikhism isn't about flexing our religions on others. Its showing people that the core of all religions lead to the path of Sikhi. I never said this would be done in one night. I said it would take a lot of work. "There is only one path to Khalistan. War." Again you claim to love peace but you see only war and bloodshed to get to Khalistan the land of peace? A paradox. "Voiceless will be crushed. I will help you Sikhlion and I urge all of you to start quieting people like this immediately." Insecurity. "Silence those that question our ways." is what you are saying here. The Gurus, the Sants, Babas and Shaheeds sacrificed their lives to Sikhism so someone on this board has the odacity to claim that Sikhs should not question. I dare you to silence Sikhs who question their faith. "That is why we destroyed the fake Sikh journalist in Vanvouver, who doesn't even deserve to be called by his real name. We made sure he was silenced. We control British Columbia with an iron fist. We took Ujal Dasanjh off of the seats of being a Premier because he loved hindus and gave us true Sikhs a hard time. By whatever means necessary. We will carry the power of Khalsa Panth to the holy end. " ...I don't even think I have to say it but whatever it was you just sa id there contains nothing of Sikhi in it, only greed, contempt, self-interest and the abuse of Sikhism. "Anyone against this is against our Shaheeds and Shaheedis and deserves to be punished by the will of any Sikh." I mean be reasonable. You are attacking Sikhs for questioning and testing their own faith. We are following the same paths as our Guru Jis. We are searching for the truth with our minds not some weapon. "We should be allowed to judge the lives of anyone since we live the best one. " This is something no Sikh would claim. We have the power to take life away from someone and not suffer the burden of responsibility because of our religion? Where in any scripture and the words of Our Immortal Guru is this stated? Anyone? This is hateful, discriminatory language and no one will report it. I'm dumbfounded. "Lets follow Sikhlions example...", How many of you here accept and honor what (Sick)Lion' has said? "...he is passionate, and that is all you need." Give me a break. If all you needed was passion then we would all be putting people like (Sick)lion in high ranks and resorting to what our instincts tell us without educating ourselves. Action without thought is fatal. Thought without action is futile. The Shaheeds would agree to this. "Reading books that aren't written by Shaheeds, Gursikhs and Sants are books that are worth burning." Honestly, everyone is satisfied with that statement? Must I assume that you all believe this? "We are the Truth, so nothing can be left living if it is in the way of me, my AK and Khalistan." I am dissapointed in where my brethern has gone. No where in the Guru Granth Sahib ji, or any of the books and scripture by our Sants, Babas or Shaheeds has anyone said that to go to Khalistan we need specifically an AK-47 assault rifle. "Nothing can be left living if it is the way of me, my AK and Khalistan". When you put between you and Khalistan a weapon of death, how can the end re sult be a Land of the Khalsa Panth. The Land of Peace? "We must kill Hindus and Hindu children so that nothing can revolt against us. This is the best way towards peace. Else, all hindus convert to Sikhs after serving sentences for acts they and their families committed against us." A lot of you said that I was merely judging all Sikhs on what few were claiming. Is this such a case? Or is this tolerated amongst the laws of our religion? "...sabhnaa ijak sambaahidaa tayraa hukam niraalaa..." -Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, 785 What does that mean? "It is only natural we punish Hinduism and even Muslims for what they did to us as Sikhs. We will avenge our brothers and sisters. We tolerate religons as long as they tolerate us. When we are at war, we are at war. " Are you wearing your kara veerji? The Guru Granth Sahib Ji said that we respect all religions. It never gave the condition that if the religion is against us then we can be against them. Because we will then always be at war, veerji. "It's time to take Khalistan back." Khalistan has not yet been found. "Take amrit and lets kill imbeciles like voiceless here who thinks he can stop Raaj's Hukhum." Hipocricy and corruption affect only the weak. I took Amrit and I will not kill someone because of his or her beliefs. "Here, Here Sikhlion and others who support him. We can't be afraid of dealing judgement. It is in our blood." That is a criminal thing to say. Dealing Judgement? You reserve the right to harass me for my ideas. You bring no crucial arguments against my questions. You merely attack me. I never attacked any on of you for your beliefs. I merely asked you questions that I thought pertinent to the cause of Khalistan. Forgive me for interpretating Sikhism and my connection to Waheguru on my own. You have really shaken my faith today. Waheguru save me. "...be calm like a bomb, and ignite on those who trespass. women children men. One way or another they will work against us. We must end them and help them get to becoming sikhi." There is a long, unresponded to article on landmines. I suggest you change your name. You are a predator of humanity. A scavenger. Children, women? I cannot generalize and assume that you represent all that is good in my religion. On the contrary it is you not I that represent all the bad about our culture. Sikhism is perfect, and you are far from it. "It is in Hukhum. Iti s the only way. Stop making friends with Hindus and Muslims. They have their own countries and their own agendas. They really want out sisters and mothers." This isn't propaganda? Then what is? If Sikhism is absolute truth, then why spread lies like this? "Its not stereotyping. These Hindu pundit brahmins never deserved to live." That isn't stereotyping? What is? Without using the wrod Sikhi and stereotyped in the same sentence. This is bordering on racism and relgious discrimination. "They were poisoned with milk sweets and corruption. We cant be currupted. Even our anger and rage and the bloodiest death by our hands is hukhum. It is what gets us closer to our Khalistan.." You hate today, and you have no love for tommorow. "THE GURUS LOVED HINDUS FIRST THEN THEY WERE BETRAYED THE GURUS ONLY WANT THE SIKHS TO KHALISTAN THEY DON"T WANT HINDUS THERE> ARE YOU WITH VOICELESS HE KNOWS NOTHING JUST A POOR CHILD WITH NO FAMILY> I QUESTION HIS HINDU UPBRINGING> " You hate today, and you have no love for tommorow. "DEATH TO ALL HINDUS AND NONSIKHS. YOU ARE AGAINST US. THE SHAHEEDS HATED HINDUS. THE GURUS HATED HINDUS. WE ALL WILL HATE HINDUS BECAUSE OF WHAT THEY DID TO US!!!!!!" Its like I'm hearing, "We love hate, we hate love" being chanted over and over in my head. Someone please rectify that these are isolated opinions! "ALL HINDUS MUST PAY> THEY ARENT EVEN A RELIGION LIKE SOMEONE SAID IF THEY AREN"T A RELIGION IT IS NOT MY FAULT FOR HATING THEM> IT IS THEIR FAULT FOR HATING US>" This honestly brought me to tears. "it is not my fault for hating them" You have no idea of the responsibility you carry. The world does not revolve around your views. It is their fault for hating us? Ironic. "VOICELESS POSTS MESSAGE I KNOW ADMIN WILL STOP HIM> I AM TOO SMART FOR HIM> NOTHING CAN STOP SINGH LIONS!!!!!!!!" Stop my message. The only offensive thing on this post are your comments, calm like a bombs and pakhandeebunga's. they are inconsiderate, cold and not well thought out. "I WILL FIND OUT WHO YOU ARE ALONGSIDE MY FELLOW SIKHS ON THIS SANGAT AND WE WILL DESTROY YOU." Target me and you will accomplish destroying yourselves through your own actions of hate. " think you should read up on your history. As smartSing pointed out, Your logic was FLAWED regarding Canada's Independance. " Canada acheived independance in 1972 from the commonwealth. No one died when this happened. canada became a country in 1867, not through war like the United States.

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa! Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!! You did attack hinduism. Because you criticized it without ever really knowing the basis of the religion. Power is something that is put to good use with responsibility. NO Guru was against Hinduism, because they stood by the fact that Sikhism tolerates all religions. Even Guru Gobind Singh Ji used his pens to fight before he used his sword. He acted in defence, never in offence. " First you ask for answers and when someone writes 'em that becomes attack on hinduism." Well I wouldn't call them attacks on a religion if they weren't. "Why do you care about hinduism anyway. Sikhs did not start it. They started it ever since 1947. " Regardless of our Great Gurus background, it is understood that Sikhism respects all faiths. Following this, I only see it logical to see where other religions, such as Hinduism coincide and digress from Sikhism. "They killed our brothers and sisters, destroyed Darbar Sahib and distributed sweets to the army. Sikhs are being humiliated in the movies, media, radio and in everyday society, not to mention those sick Sikh jokes. they want to destroy our religion, culture and language. Now tell me who is the one with hatred." Did the Great Guru Granth Sahib state that these were precursors to hate someone for their faith? Categorizing those imbeciles that seek to defile the Sikh name as Hindus is ignorance on our part. They are people who assume they are fulfilling their own religions. People like that exist in every faith. Fanatics. Bent on armoring themselves with the word of God and going to kill in His name. Hypocrisy. "Hinduism is not even a religion. " And that my veer is something that goes against even the disclaimer for the posts on this board. When did you become the individual to make such a narrowminded summary of a faith followed by millions? You have a problem with those that use their religion for ill purposes. But by attacking the religion itself is ignorance. How ironic. You are showing hate and prejudice. You generalize under the word Hindu all things you hate about those who oppress us. " There is no definition of a hindu. " With your reasoning, there is no definition of any religion. Each religion has followers that interpret the Word of God differently. That is because the word is the most problematic creation of man. Any word that is written can be taken many ways. There are many types of Hindus, but there is only one basic scripture as is in Sikhism, Chritianity, Judaism, Islam, Buddhism etc. Sects are permitted in all religions. That doesn't mean they don't have a religion. You bring up caste as if the Sikh population is devoid of it. We are not. Its a cultural problem that affects even us. "where is word "hindu" written in vedas or puranas?. no where." Have you read the Vedas or Puranas or the Upanishads or the Bhagavad Gita? The word hindu is used consistently in all these scriptures, and even if they didn't, they all present a path of life towards some ultimate end. "when did hinduism start and who started it? no one knows. " Hinduism dates back 5000 years as evidence of vedic scripture has been reported in archeological finds in south India. It began as a pagan religion where every element of the world was organized and orchestrated by different demigods, which of course were in some way linked to a monotheistic God. Who found Hinduism? There are many poets purported to have written about the religion, most although is depicted as art as written discourse took some time to get invented. The religion got a blend of romanized thought when the Aryans invaded later in history. They are atributed alongside the south indians to be the creators of Hinduism, Bhuddism and some forms of Jainism. The religion maintained its paganism but also delved into the philosophical quest for the purpose of man. Many Sikhs know this because it interests them to learn about other faiths and not be blind to the world around them. "Hindus insult Sikhs but you dont seem to care. " I care about the fact that anyone who insults religion is not very well knowledged. Sikhs insult Hindus and you think that is justifiable? There are people who follow Hinduism for the wrong reasons and people that follow Sikhism for the wrong reasons. They are the ones that represent their religions in an inappropriate way. I am not saying that Hinduism is to blame. It doesn't promote the crimes you say Hindus commit. Just like Sikhism does not promote the crimes that s ome who claim to follow OUR religion commit. Categorization is another form of discrimination and making things easier to deal with. Let's try the opposite. I'm not promoting Hinduism above Sikhism or Sikhism above Hinduism. I merely follow Sikhism. I cannot lay claim that my religion is better than the rest because that is fundamentally wrong in my religion. Sikhism teaches us that we have such a powerful religion that we can tolerate and learn from other faiths as well. "All you care about is that no one should say nothing about hinduism. " You have no right to lay claim to knowing Hinduism by what you've already written. How can you understand your own religion that teaches you to tolerate others? "Guru Ji called hindu beliefs "blindness" and "foolishness" now why should I respect blindness and foolishness." Guru Nanak Dev Ji said that some facets of hinduism seemed mundane to him. He respected Hinduism for its fundamental beliefs. Just because he didn't follow Hinduism and brought about the beginnings of Sikhism does not mean he did not respect the religion. He did not respect those who abused Hinduism, just as He does not respect those who abuse any religion. Guru Nanak Dev Ji was not so narrowminded to dislike a group of people because of their faith. He considered everyone to be on the path of Sikhi including Hindus and Muslims. Its unfortunate you do not see the relationship between our religion and the others because they exist. Again, there are elements in Shabaads in prayers and raags that mention Hindu and Muslim poets because of their reverence of god. The Gurus were wise to note that in every religion there was a hint of Sikhism which they unravel for us in our Immortal Guru. "I respect religions not cults like hinduism. " I respect all religions. I respect all people and I treat them as my peers, veerji. "Hinduism never did anything for India" I would chance it to say that you are no theologist. Because to as sume that a religion must accomplish some goal for the betterment of the state is a crude and daring argument. All you can say about any religion is that it is needed. " All it did was put chains of slavery around the necks of Indians for centuries. " Indians that followed the Hindu faith followed it for 5000 years. Hinduism still exists today. If you mean to say that these people did not realize their slavery, then it is safe to say they did not consider it slavery. So why argue that they suffered? "It was Sikhs who broke the chains. We freed the land so it belongs to us. It is ours and we will take it. " Again veerji, you sound immature. Since when did the possession of land mean so much given the fact that no one will ever take Sikhism away from us. Guru Gobind Singh Ji enforced this by giving us the names we all carry with pride today. I am all for Khalistan. But not because the political borders of Punjab belongs to us, but because the world will one day be Khalsa Panth without borders. "You and your people can scream all day but nothing will stop us." You would run through your own to acheive an ideal. When Guru Nanak Dev Ji questioned rituals and methods in Hinduism he called those foolish and blind, not Hinduism. He lost faith in the people who followed trivial pursuits. If you can state something like "nothing will stop us" and assume that "people like me" will just scream all day then you are mistaken. A Sikh will continue to question. Even if means questioning his/her own faith. Only then will a Sikh understand the Absolution of the Great Guru Granth Sahib and all the Gurus before It. "Australia was just a prison for UK and european countries." Austrailia was a British Colony like india. It won its independance because Britain relinquished its right to Austrailia. True the society was comprised of criminals initially,but how can you assume that Austrailia is full of ciriminals today? Canada won its independance through simila r actions of the British Government. Not a single person died for the cause. " I can say that Afghanistan never had anybody killed for independence but the main reason is that this country was never ruled by a foreign power. " That is a bad example. Afghanistan also was a part of Russia, occupied by soviets the Ottoman Empire and the Muslims who purged the Persians and finally now occupied by America. There is constant struggle and strife there. And they are especially not independant because of the tribal warfare, the puppet regimes and a flaying economy. " So look for countries that got tired of ruling and gave independence to the people. There might be some. Still, I would say without sacrifices people would not understand the true value of freedom." Alright, I guess we can agree that America won its freedom by going at the British. And then of course it emerged finally after a civil war. Today America has the highest mortality rate by guns. Children kill children at schools and its televised on tv like reality shows. America remains the most ignorant country in the world. Yet they reserve the right to the most freedoms towards an individual. They understand the Vallue of Freedom? The value of freedom can only be understood by knowing the value of the responsibilities that come with that freedom, veerji. No one has answered to the fact that Sikhism teaches us to respect all religions, and to not hate any person for their religious beliefs. It is also a fundamental right we all reserve. So why do you avoid answering the question: "Is it Sikhi to hate Hinduism?" Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa! Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

"When Pakistan attacked India had the hindus sat on the border line in their dhotis and started spinning their charkha they would've all gotten killed or slaves of muslims. You are not even a Sikh because a true Sikh will never call Guru Ji a hindu." I am not aiming to insult Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji by saying that he was Hindu and that he defied those principles to find Sikhism. You are offended because you attach Hinduism to hatred of Sikhs. Sikhism accepts and respects all faiths. You don't. You easily categorize people under their religions and attack the religion. Yes Guru Nanak Dev Ji did not follow the rituals of Hinduism because he saw them unworthy of a connection to Waheguru. Yet the Guru Granth Sahib Ji incorporate prayers and songs from Muslims and Hindus that do revere Waheguru. You attack my beliefs. Is this what Sikhism taught you? Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa! Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

"Name a country that won independence with no one getting killed." Canada Sweden Austrailia The Country of Georgia

GEE, I WONDER WHY WE WOULD HAVE HATRED FOR PEOPLE WHO OPRESS SIKHS? MIGHT IT BE THE FACT THAT WE ARE SIKHS? OH SO U'VE MET OTHER PEOPLE WHO DON'T WANT KHALISTAN AND ARE DETERMINED TO UNDERMINE THE HOPES AND DREAMS OF WHAT WILL EVENTUALLY BECOME A REALITY?AND WHERE DO YOU COME OFF SAYING THE GURU NANAK DEV JI WAS A HINDU? YOU ARE NOTHING, NOTHING COMPARED TO HIM, AND HAVE NO RIGHT TO DISPARAGE HIM! Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa! Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!! Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji was not born a Sikh. He found Sikhism and was brought up as a Hindu. I mentioned I've met many Sik hs that share feelings of hate towards the religions that cause people to make horrible judgements. Since when did Sikhism teach you to hate? Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa! Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa! Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!! pakhandeebunga, I was impressed by your dedicated response. Thank you for not showing insult and approaching my post with a critical viewpoint. I am a proud Sikh. Let me delve into your response. First of all to address your problem with my main point: "I am not sure what your big point is. I mean 1) Khalistan is not needed because it already exits spiritually or 2) Khalistan cannot exist because there will be no stable government. " It is niether of these. My main point is, the development of Khalistan's infrastructure (Government, Society, Economy, Resources, Domestic and Foreign Policy) is a very critical task to accomplish. What makes things so difficult in this case (where the Gurudwara and the state of Punjab become one) is that the interpretation of the Guru Granth Sahib Ji can never be exactly the same for any one Sikhi (albiet the opinions will be similar in ideals). Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji gave us the power to make personal connections to Waheguru through jaap. So the seeds were sown so that each of us Sikhis viewed our Immortal Guru a certain way. The Guru Granth Sahib Ji is absolute in its composition. Who are we as Sikhs to fully understand the concept of absolute Truth as the Gurus did? Who can ensure that the Khalistan we build is the Khalistan we read about in the Guru Granth Sahib Ji? "The bottom line is that Khalistan is needed for survival of Sikh religion." I agree with you. I am merely against a Khalistan borne from warfare. I believe in a land of the Khalsa Panth. "Just to note that by saying Khalistan exits spiritually doesn't cut it. Gurbani clearly says that Amrit exists in our body then I can say why do we need to take Khanday Di Pahul? Harimander Sahib also exists spiritually within our body so why did Baba Deep Singh Ji and Sant Jarnail Singh Ji have to protect it from getting destroyed? I think you know what I mean. Guru Gobind Singh Ji said that sovereignty is a MUST so we must try to look for answers and figure out why Guru Ji really said it. " Your questions are excellent. But I don't know what you mean. The first place you Matha Taikh and meet the Immortal Guru Granth Sahib ji is in the Gurudwara of your mind. I agree Khalistan cannot be simply spiritual, however. Gurudwaras exist today to meet our Gurus and learn their teachings. They are a connection to that spiritual world. We are here as Sikhs to bring the Khalsa Panth to every person without aggression. Our aim should be to teach ourselves the wisdom of the Gurus to the best of our ability and work to show every Sikhi the path to Truth. (When I refer to a Sikhi, I refer to everyone on this earth as the Gurus did). Our Great Gurus viewed everyone on the path of Sikhi. Why do we look for a borderline and define our Sikhs as Punjabis and the rest of the world as Hindus, Muslims, and Christians? This is not the case in the real world. Sikhism accepts elements of every faith as a form of its own. Many of our raags and prayers were inspired by the beautiful things of many different religions including those we criticize today. Its not religion that is the problem, its people. So I agree with you on the existence of Khalistan as a principle of fulfilling our purpose as Sikhs. I don't believe in it as a political nation. The world is too beautiful to be scarred by borderlines. Why does Khalistan fall victim to a manmade creation? Did the Gurus view Khalistan as lines drawn over the area over the State of Punjab? Or did they view Khalistan as the one nation that is drawn over all barriers? "What good would a country bring to Sikhism? If we look at history, first Sikh Baba Banda Singh Bahadur established Khalsa rule in 1708 when Sikhs were in number of few hundred but within next 8-9 years Sikh population increased to 100,000. Same thing happened in Maharaja Ranjit Singh's raj. Now these Sikhs did not study the separation of church and state but many muslims and hindus wanted to live under their rule. Many people emigrated from different countries like France and America. If these Sikhs with no education could setup one of the best countries then why can't Sikhs today with so much education setup that kind of country again." Its not a matter of practical ideology. Or just a matter of the separation of Church and State. It was easier in the past to have the two elements so close to each other for many nations. It was after the fact that thiestic interpretation changed from something that was uncontested to something that was different between each and every person that Church-State nations number in the few today. Punjabis can of course make their own nation if they are ambitious for one. One not connected to the Gurudwaras, but to agreed upon democratic principles (strictly a nation of the state). But it will not be a Khalistan in this case in my view at all. Not all Punjabis are Sikhs, under todays definitions, that is understood. Not all muslims live in Pakistan either. Its easy to think Khalistan will be prosperous because all Sikhs view their religion the same. That isn't the case today. Lead everyone to the path of Sikhi and the world will become the Khalistan of our dreams. "...[the] USA constitution was written some 10 years after independence. India wrote it in 1950, three years after independence. So why do Sikhs have to setup a government now?" You are right about the historical times between the writing of both constitutions. What were these countries like in the interim after the nation was created and the constitution written? Civil war in the America and civil unrest in India. We should learn from the past, not mimic it. "Why do you think we can't? Why do you think Sikhs would fight and kill each other? This kind of thinking shows that you think Sikhs are stupid and cannot run a country. If we can make 93% of sacrifices then why can't we run a country?" We can all be a member of Khalistan. I've never said I don't believe in it. Just that I don't believe it to be something that results from war. If I said you weren't a Sikh, you would get offended. You have every right to. But what gives you the right to tell me if I'm not a Sikh? We would share the same thoughts if I said the same thing to you, pakhandeebunga. This is the root of why I believe there can be and exist today Sikhs who have killed Sikhs or Hindus or muslims. Those that commit atrocities in the name of their religion, will never be deterred from their beliefs. This thinking doesn't show that I think Sikhs are stupid. This shows that I believe Sikhism as a religion to be the words of absolution. We are human and imperfect. We can never fully understand the scope of our religion thus these things will and do occur. If you want me to give examples I will, and have in some other posts. But I am confident you understand that some individuals do rash things in the name of their religion. Its just a matter of education as you have said. "That being said, now we come to some of the challenges. 1) Majority problem---During Maharaja Ranjit Singh's raj Sikhs were minority. being a minority does not mean you cannot run a country." I agree. Let's bring Bani to all people. If Khalistan is an ideal of our religion, once people see the path of Sikhi, Khalistan will surely result. Its not so cut and dry as that. There's a lot of pyaar to show, teaching, and understanding and appreciating of our world and Waheguru that is involved. But don't you agree it is foolish to think that only certain people can be shown the path of Sikhi, its absolution! Everyone can be shown without harassment or advertisement. Sikhism can incorporate any faith that revers Waheguru and the impulse to learn and control our inhibitions. "2) Not enough population in Punjab----Isreal's population is somewhere around 6 million and yet they are surviving. Sikhs are over 20 million in Punjab." I think Israel is not a country that can be compared to Khalistan. Israel is not a Church-State as many believe it to be. The allied powers gave the estranged Zionists a land, which they incidently also promised to the estranged Palestinians (Balfour Agreement). The land was a political endeavour not a religious one. In the scripture of the Torah, the Jewish Holy Book, Israel is a Promised Land reclaimed by the Jewish on their own accord, not by the help of outside parties. In any case, Israel was won through war. On the day of its birth, May 28th 1947, Israel was at war with five countries in that region. To this day, Israelis fight each Palestinians and struggle for survival because of the promises of the Allied Powers. "3) Sea Port---Many landlock countries like Switzerland, Nepal, and Afghanistan are surviving. Also, other countries sea ports can be used for trade because this is how business works. Also having a land lock country does not mean limiting Sikhism. Having a country would help Sikhism spread. I gave two examples above. have two more. In 1947 hindus were 30 million and muslims were 8.8 million in pakistan. Now there are over one billion hindus and 150 million muslims in pakistan. So country helps the religion to not only survive but also spread. A country can provide funding for preachers and we can do parchaar in lot better ways. Christianity spread because those missionaries had the power of Christian countries. USA and UK are funding the missionaries in india and they are opening up the best schools. So having a country would help Sikhism and would not make it limited within the borders." I have to disagree. All the religio ns you have mentioned are not exclusive to the countries you've listed. There are muslims in America, Christians in India and Hindus in Switzerland. None of these countries equate the State with the Church. They are diverse, as I hope Khalistan will be. But khalistan can not escape being a state governed by the Gurudwaras. There is a difference I think, and I see Khalistan as more of an end result. Instead of building a country, why not spread the Word of Khalsa and educate others about the path towards Sikhism. More people will look forward to Khalistan. If we worked hard enough under Waheguru's eyes, the world could possibly be seen without borders anymore. On the otherhand, having a State run country, The country of Punjab where Sikhism would be the predominant religion, would have huge possibilities for the spread of our religion like you have said. But in my view it could not be referred to as Khalistan. "4) Moving to Khalistan-----why does anyone have to move? hindus have india but hindus live in almost every country. moving to Khalistan is a personal choice not a requirement. " I think you will agree with me when I say Waheguru would like to see the world as Waheguru created it, as the Land of the Khalsa Panth. Through peace and diplomacy, we can achieve this I am confident. Because I believe in the persistence of Sikhs. "Sikhism teaches peace and love not killing of someone. A murderer cannot be a Sikh. Killing someone in name of religion is never justifiable and of course i mean innocent human being not someone like hitler. In 500 years of our history can you point out one incident where Sikhs killed innocent people in the name of religion? Muslims have but not Sikhs. " Your first sentence is absolutely correct. That is because the Word of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is absolute. But we as Sikhi will never be able to fully understand this divinity, as much as we revere it, which is why we revere it so. We are all cursed as human beings to resort to primitive act s, those who practice Sikhism included. We cannot judge so quickly who is Sikh and who is not. That is reserved by the practicer in this day and age of religious freedom. Therefore, there are those who consider themselves Sikhs who have killed others in the name of their religion. Some confuse their religious ideals with cultural ones and this is where incidents of these sort occur. By no means does Sikhism advocate murder. It advocates self-defence and standing up for your rights. The kirpan we wear is the symbol of our pursuit of this justice. The kara we wear reminds us that even Sikhi can sometimes be tempted by crime and it makes us consider our actions. Ultimately it is between you and Waheguru what you do with the breath that was given to you. "Sikhism gives freedom of religion, speech, press and everything. Show me in Gurbani if it is not so. I think you are not familiar with Sikh politics. Emperor Jahangir was so much impressed by Guru Hargobind Ji's concepts of politics. You saying that miri piri would not make a good country so are you questioning Guru Sahib Ji that He was wrong? When Guru Ji setup this system do you think He did not think about this? Guru Ji is perfect and right. let me tell you little bit about religion and politics. " Sikhism gives freedom to all you have mentioned. But our culture still acts against these freedoms. Sikhism isn't the problem it is our cultural traditions that conflict our religion that need to be resolved. Caste being a very big obstacle. We can embrace Guru Hargobind Ji's concepts of politics and His system when we can see past our cultural contradictions. "Laws are created as issues arise and government faces with problems. Laws can be changed. gurbani cannot be changed because truth stays the same no matter what. truth 500 years ago is still the truth. if truth needs to be changed over time then it is not the truth. It is easy to ask questions but hard to look for answers and Sikhs are hard working people. Sikhs will look fo r answers. if you say gurbani will conflict with laws then give me a specific situation and tell me what needs to be changed in Gurbani according to you when it comes to politics? " I agree Gurbani is absolute truth. But you cannot comprehend the meaning of absolution. Because in our world things can occur in different subject realities. Laws are not absolute truth. At the same time the answers to todays problems are all in Gurbani and is something we have to search for before we use Gurbani as the laws that govern Khalistan. Laws are not the same as the laws and truths in the Guru Granth Sahib. "Gurdwaras will carry out religious activities and courts will be setup for political problems." This is a country where church and state is separate. "Religion and politics go together but separate." This doesn't make sense. "For a country religion is one side of the vehicle and politics the other side." Does this include Khalistan, just another country? "In Gurdwaras, Granthis will do religious activities and only those who have Phds in Sikhism will be appointed and people with phds in law will be appointed judges." This is ridiculously not a Church-State country. Who awards Doctor of Philosophy Degrees for Sikhism? What school of thought? And Phds in law will be appointed judges. This isn't Khalistan because there is separation between Church and State. You're outlining a 'infrastructure' to the country of Punjab. "In my personal opinion, eating meat, drinking alcohol and smoking will be prohibited in Khalistan because no religion teaches in favor of these things. " Because this is your personal opinion, you already state there are varying opinions among Sikhi about these restrictions. Which means that Khalistans view on the opinion could vary as well. Who decides? Those against are not Sikh? Is that justifiable? "In Afghanistan drinking is prohibited and this country has been surviving for centuries. " I have to argue that making a correlation between the prohibition of alcohol and Afghanistans status as a nation is a controvercial one. What do you define as surviving? Borderlines? Afghanistan has faced civil upheaval, occupation, illiteracy, disease, poverty and strife. Hardly survival. "Meat is wrong because killing animals is wrong. Muslims eat halaal but Islam does not say that those who dont eat meat cannot be muslims. Sufis don't eat meat. eating meat is not a requirement in Islam. So religious freedom of muslims will not be violated. " I lost you here, I apologize. Maybe you could rephrase it? "I do not think muslims and hindus have to live there. they have their own countries. " As much as you'd like to believe it, India is not explicitly a 'Hindu' country. Many faiths reside in India and the consititution, (not necessarily the people) honor that as a democratic freedom. The same for Pakistan. Two thirds of Sikhs like on either side of the borders, protected by these freedoms, (again, obviously curruption has poisoned those in power and this isn't always the case). It is in writing, so it is upholdable to the law. It doesn't have a sign on it that says 'Only Hindus' allowed. To give reason that Khalistan does not include the whole of Waheguru's creation is something we must avoid. And putting religions in countries is the first act of discrimination. Regardless of what representatives of that faith have done to us in the past in the name of their religion. All religions preach peace first. People skew ideals. "You mentioned how abortion will be dealt with in Khalistan. This is a long debate. But first we must find out what makes a woman want to have abortion? If we can get rid of those problems then it wouldnt happen. If woman has no money then the government can provide money and open health care centers. Every problem has a solution. " An abortion is a very touchy subject. You sound as if it is something that has an ultimate solution. What makes a woman want to have an abortion? What right is it of ours to tell a mother what to do with her unborn child. 'If we can get rid of those problems then it wouldnt happen." Its already illegal to rape a woman. Its already illegal to impregnate a woman without her consnt. How will you stop rape? "If woman has no money then the government can provide money and open health care centers. " You're already delving into subsidiaries to mothers contemplating abortion without a budget. You're oversimplifying the problem. It is an issue we must approach we make a nation that bans it or allows it. We can't just anticipate a solution in the long run so nonchalantly. Every problem does have a solution. But some problems are solved with solutions that cause worse problems. "Panj Pyare will be the leaders of Khalistan. Elections can be held every four or five years and people will choose Panj Pyare. Every city will have Panj Pyare as its leader. Do you think Sikhs do not know anything about elections?" To answer your question, No, I believe Sikhs understand elections. An election involving Church and State is a different story becuase it potentially has never happened. Most Church State governments were hierarchial. There were no elections. But you are proposing there will be. Panj Pyare will be leaders of Khalistan. Who decreed that? What gives this individual the right to decide that another Panj Pyare will lead Khalistan? Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji picked Panj Pyare. It is heresy to appoint us to make a decision as perfect as His. And then to say that we pick new ones every four or five years? There has always been only Panj Pyare. These titles are mixing religion and politics in dangerous ways. And how can you force non-religious members of our Khalistan to vote for religious heads. We will restrict this freedom from them? We could come up with so many reasons why this is not thoroughly planned out. "...other courts will be setup for other issues. For e xample, if someone wants to get divorced, he/she will not go to Akaal Takhat Sahib. When someone wants to open up a business he/she will not go to Akaal takhat Sahib to register the property under his name. Why do you even think Sikhs cannot setup institutions that will deal with other problems? Doing business, trading, currency etc. is not part of religion so these things will be independent of Akaal Takhat Sahib." How can this be in Khalistan where everything is ordained by the Khalsa Panth through the Gurudwaras? This isn't a Khalistan where the whole land is one Gurudwara. Its a State with predominantly Gurudwaras at different locations, and a separate government ordaining affairs of democracy. Will Khalistan be seperate Church and State in its authority over people? Our religion is all encompasing. Somehow we must learn to adapt it to everything that is a part of Khalistan whether it is business related or currency related. This is a very difficult task, but I am confident we will figure it out. "business, currency, biology, astronomy and other things have nothing to do with religion." Does Khalistan have everything to do with Sikhism then? I think the above are a part of society and so is religion. There must be a connection in how we do our business and what religion teaches us about interacting with each other. Sikhism teaches to search for truth. If biology is a science that seeks the same, is it not a follower of Sikh ideals? How we handle currency, astronomy and other things...are all just material occurences that we learn from based on what our Immortal Guru mentions about them. To be cautious. "Sikhs are not like Khomeini who burnt all the books by saying that all the knowledge a man needs is in quran. " Because that is why I love Sikhism. It advances towards Truth and does not advertise itself as absolution. It is absolution and the Immortal Guru seeks to help you achieve it. "In my personal opinion you do not sound like a Sikh not because you are ag ainst Khalistan but because you do not have clear concept of what Sikhi really is. No offence to you personally, no one has the right to say if someone is following their religion correctly or not. That is discrimination. Please refrain from attacking my beliefs. Is that Sikhi? "You asked questions which can be solved very easily..." You never answered any of my questions. You only misinterpreted what I said and then brought up some of the issues I mentioned, only to state that we will easily solve them. You didn't solve them. You can't be so confident without searching for the Truth of the Matter. "...and you sound like Sikhs are stupid who will not be able to run a country. This is the impression I got but maybe I am wrong. " Why say "maybe I am wrong?" Are you confident in what you've said. You've dedicated so much time in your response and I respect that. Sikhs can and are running countries right now. But Khalistan is not just any other country. It is the ideal combination of Church and State in my opinion, and is acheivable at the grandest scale only after years of study and teaching practicing simran and bani are apart of this. I welcome more argument. I am sorry I could not respond to all of you. I will try my best. Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa! Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

Before Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji found Sikhism, he was a hindu. He questioned the rituals of Hinduism and determined that to find Waheguru was to meditate and recant his name. He asked questions and figured out that some rituals in Hinduism to Him were pointless and did not help one get a closer relationship with Waheguru. I'm not here to prove my intelligence. I am just a child behind a computer as some you have pointed out. Its not about me. Its about you. You are not used to argument. Because you use your words so disparingly. Its a depraved new world after all. On this website there is a general hatred for those who opress Sikhs. The general idea is to win Khalistan by fighting for it. Smily faces with guns shooting? Is that a peaceful statement to you? I've read not one or two posts. I've read through hundreds. I've met many in my own community that share these feelings. And there is never any serious debate about the consequences about Khalistan, just constant propaganda. Where is the discussion in this forum? Where is your debate. I DO apologize for my previous posts. I resent the fact that we hold those who wish to pursue things through to the end back. I understand I was angry that admin revoked my rights to post just beause of my questioning without ever feeling I was answered. I was even more dissapointed when admin rewrote some of my posts. Alright, I'll take your suggestions. I will post one question at a time. I'll try to be less akin to talking about how I feel and more towards finding the truth. Thank you for your comments.

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa! Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!! Children behind computers? It's interesting. We treat children today with such little credibility. How ironic then that some of our Gurus were children when they made decisions that we revere today. I am not likening myself to the wisdom of our Gurus, I'm just trying to convey a point about what power we saw in children then and now. The ideals of Khalistan are lost in the fact that the majority sees victory only through war. And when we receive this Khalistan we will be so caught up in the fact that we've received it, that we will realize we never planned on how it should be run. IfKhalistan will be won in bloody war, then its infrastructure, government and justice system will be won through civil war. Dig the trenches. You believe you've exhausted peaceful means? You will see what exhaustion is actually like when you reap what you have sown. Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa! Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa! Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!! How would the Guru Granth Sahib treat a murderer in Khalistan? How would the state of Punjab? The difference as I see it is that, criminals in the State of Punjab can commit a crime but still have faith that they have not offended their respective God or religion. In the country of Khalistan, the criminal must bear the burden that the act is directly an act against a religious institution. What happens when the criminal act was in the name of God? Does Khalistan have the right to convict a criminal without offending the freedom of religion? Or is this a freedom we will not provide? You see, this is but one paradox. How can you build a Khalistan governed by a political party and then still refer to the nation as a religious ideal void of any political influence ? How can you vote against the Khalistan Right or Khalistan Left? It's just another split among Sikhs. No one has gone as far as to develop some infrastructure regarding the composition of a constitution. Will it be tenets extracted from the Guru Granth Sahib? If so will it be ammendable as times change? The Guru Granth Sahib has not changed because it is the words of our Gurus. So it just means how we appropriate the Gurus wisdom to our times will change? Who decides when times have changed? Are there positions of power in Khalistan? Who decides? No Gurudwara will sacrifice its laws for the state of Punjab. Thus, Punjab must adopt the laws of the Gurudwara. Punjab must evolve into the Gurudwara state. Or do you think that the Gurudwara must evolve into the state? Either way, the Gurudwara must excomm unicate from itself all things that it considers against the steadfast morals that this religion is built on. In doing this Khalistan stumbles into many dilemnas concerning litigation, freedoms of speech, the justice process, non-sikhs, relations etc. Its not a solvable problem. Its something that must be dealt with. "If anything it is your view that doesn't seem to be well thought out. Your argument is that a church-Khalistan cannot exist or will find it difficult to exist. You are looking at this issue from a western perspective. The West has a long history of problems created by the catholic church interfaring with the governance of different states. For a Khalistan we need to look at it from a Sikhi perspective. Would you agree with me that in a theocratic state such as Khalistan the Guru Granth Sahib would form the basis of the constitution. Just as in spiritual sphere then similarly in the temporal sphere the Guru Granth Sahib would be supreme. In a semitic ( Christian, Jewish and Muslim ) form of a state based on religion having the Bible, Torah or the Koran as the highest authority is problematic. In these scriptures there are many things which are directly opposed to the accepted norms of modern politics such as human rights and equality of all. This is especially the case with a state founded on the basis of the Koran. This is why Islamic states have an undercurrent of oppression against both women and minorities. No such issue exists with the Guru Granth Sahib. There is nothing in the Guru Granth Sahib which runs counter to the most enlightened and progressive ideals of governence." In the Guru Granth Sahib Ji there is an active voice against caste. In Punjabi culture which includes those of Sikhs, caste has prevailed as a strong presence. If you decide that the authority posed by other religious texts are problematic because of the times they were written in, how does the Guru Granth Sahib Ji fair better with s.e.x.u.a.l preference, abortion, varied sects of Sikhism, secular governm ent, sustainable economies, currency, freedoms of speech? You are wrong to assume that the Word of our Gurus is taken the same way among all Sikhs. Its true, there was no St. Luther to tell us that our interpretation of Waheguru is our own. But it is in the Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Naam Jaap is personal connection to Waheguru. So how does Khalistan govern varying ideals when Khalistan is derived from those ideals? You've made too many assumptions. And our religion isn't so straightforward. The Guru Granth Sahib Ji is written in some cases in script that many cannot fully comprehend, lest I remind you. The power of the Word is beyond us Sikhs. Because the power of the Word is the immortalized Guru. We can't attempt to fully comprehend it, yet we are prepared to make it the affidavit of our constitution? You've heard the statement, "A picture is a thousand words"? I believe a word is a thousand pictures. And that is the fallacy of humanity. We lack the capacity to define ourselves. We are victims of our own self-awareness. Look at our history. I mean the worlds history. Its conflict. Its vague. You can believe one thing as much as another. We will never define ourselves. What have we got to show for what we are? Identity? Image? When we perish, we leave our words. Describing a desert with a handful of sand. You write and you are written. Every word you write, unwrites what you've written. Choose your words cautiously. Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa! Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa! Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!! There is no such thing as learning too much. There is no such thing as questioning more than one should to find the Truth. To all that have replied. No one has made an argument against mine. Bikramjit Singh pointed out: "...we are a majority in Punjab and the democratic norm is that the majority rules. The Muslims through their majority got West Punjab for themselves even though Sikhs owned the best lands and paid the most in taxes in these areas. As one Sikh leader said, the British have taken the Punjab from the owner and given it to the tenents! The Hindus through their majority took away Himachal and Haryana from Punjab. And now you ask what right have Sikhs got to the leftover area?" This is a battle of legal land rights. You are mixing theistics with politics. Have you resorted to a Khalistan imprisoned in its own borders? Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji envisioned everyone one the path of Sikhi, regardless of faith. That is one of the most powerful and beautiful aspects of our religion. Why bring Khalistan down to mound of dirt? The first Gurudwara is the one inside each of us. We need no borders. Khalistan is here when we naam jaap. We are unified in prayers and reverence to Waheguru. I do not ask what right we Sikhs have to any land. I do not fill my mind with trivial pursuits. Khalistan exists as a spiritual nation. It exists when us brothers and sisters pray for salvation. And anyone can be a part of that. My argument was simply one that puts Khalistan and Punjab as one, and pursues the fact that simply that a Church and State as a unified head of a nation i s something that deserves a lot of attention. If you are so adamant of acheiving this land in the name of Waheguru, then you must prepare for everything. Don't point me towards restated causes for Khalistan. Describe to me your rebuttal against my Church-State issue. How can you manage a nation from scripture with political ideals. It is not as simple as you are making it. Death will occur on each side when you fight for this cause you have so diligently established for yourselves. Can you do injustice to those that will die for this land by not considering infrastructure to the greatest detail. Argue. Show me otherwize. Your simple remarks and mass support for each other only shows irrespective responses that are not well thought out. If you are so dedicated you will approach this argument with the utmost respect and aim to reason why a Church-State, Khalistan can exist. Your insecurity is what I see when you tell me to read signatures of quotes that are context sensitive, and you fail to ellaborate on your claims. We do not deserve the Khalistan we dream about, if we cannot comprehend the ramifications that come with its birth. I am willing to argue. Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa! Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa! Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!! So far the_sikh, or anyone of you can only respond with propaganda as to the justification of Khalistan through war. You are not serious because you are not educated. I have done nothing but shown fault in your 'logic'. And as much as I am a thorn in your side, I won't go away. Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji asked questions to every action by the Hindus, while he was a Hindu. I shall follow His example for the Sikhs. We all should search the truth through Him. I do not fear your persecution as and ignorance. I fear only the will of Waheguru. You can't respond without using quotes that supposedly speak for themselves. No one here has had the confidence to speak intelligently against my views. I've faced attacks from members and administration. The sites disclaimer should apply to the orchestrators of this site as well. I get blocked from expressing my opinions. Yet you flex your hatred towards groups that can't possibly represent themselves here. You should be ashamed. Your insecurity is made further evident by ignoring my posts if you can't get rid of them. If you can't reply with the same dedication I bring to my arguments, then how can you possibly fathom receiving a country in the Sikh name? Yes, you have been purged. You have been stereotyped and assaulted. I can not forget. None of you were there in 1984 to fully claim exactly what happened. That is a weakness of humanity and history. Face it. You will never know the true course of events. Everyone is biased. There is no escaping it. Even if I am talking in tongues, many of you will never ac cept a Khalistan made in peace, even if it is offered to you. This is hate. This is disgusting. Smily faces shooting guns? A fight for land. Didn't we learn about illusion and its many forms? This is what Sikhism has become to you people. An excuse for power? Shame. I pity you. I pity your cause. Bloody as it will be. You show no remorse, then why should I? Block me. Ban me from this forum. I was ONESSIKHI, and I still am. Re-write my posts. Quote me without reading my posts. You can kill the messenger, but you can't kill the message. There are many Sikhs who dare to read between lines. There are many Sikhs who try to be realist and practical about obtaining Khalistan. They find it is possible through peaceful means. They plan infrastructure. They consider the failures of other church states. They discuss and try to comprehend every aspect of the Khalistan. They truly love their cause, because they seek to find justice behind every action. A heavenly nation such as Khalistan can only be found through heavenly means. Guru Gobind Singh Ji fought with His pen before He fought with his sword. The least we can do is learn how to write. I dare you to argue against my statements without quoting our great sants so abrasively. I dare administration to leave this message posted for replies. I offend you? I make you mad and frustrated? I bring to you my views. Nothing more. I'm not here to convert you. You restricted me from even replying to my earlier posts. This is shameful. Is this the democracy you hope to enforce in your Khalistan? I gave up on you and your cause a long time ago. I am here to warn you. Your actions represent all Sikhs, those for and against a Khalistan that is one won through war. I've dealt with stereotyping all my life. I accept it as a test of my faith. But I will not stand idly while millions jump the gun and use it to shoot innocent people and take what they cannot have by force. I am here to question. I am not here to make enemies. You r violent reactions are just evidence to me that you are not ready and insecure. If you were so prepared and confident in your cause, you would be comfortable calm collected. You would be wise not to let your pride blind your judgement. Stop speaking for Sants. Stop arguing over small contradictions in their history. Triviality has led your minds astray. None of you should have the privelage to make such context sensitive quotes without thinking about it thoroughly. You command nothing with historical quotes out of context. You disrespect the Sants and Shaheeds by taking their words and converting them to a simplified truth, or objective. They said what they said so that the mistakes of the past are not endured again. If Khalistan is won through war, you and your decendants will face a lifetime of opposition. Exploitation. Revenge. Death. Destruction. Blood. War. Politics. These are the foundations of your Khalistan. These are not the foundations of Sikhism. No clickable smiles, or post icons can make this issue a lightened topic. This IS serious. This is controversial, even between us Sikhs, for a reason. For the sake of those who want to see the credibility behind the views, start by asking questions and answering them in as much detail as you can. Research. Love every aspect of your cause. How far after the reception of Khalistan have you planned or thought out? You spend so much time glorifying your warriorship. You have not even looked passed the edge of your swords. Take my earlier posts (OneSikhi). I was kind. I was courteous. I treated you all with the utmost respect. And I still await valid responses. You can cut off the head, but it always grows back hard. I am here as long as you are. Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa! Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

Are you naive or are you just stupid? Despite what you have written, you are anything but serious about Khalistan. You are merely anger without any real direction. Who are you to make such idiotic things such as, "drinking, eating meat, and all that" illegal? What are the ramifications for breaking these, 'laws'? "The government would be strong - unlike indias current one." ...Wha t kind of Government did you have in mind for our holy land Khalistan? Communist, Progressive Conservative, Khalistani Right? Any way you slice it, you're looking at a political party, with a political agenda leading a country dreamed up in spirituality. Can you really stick a political party on top of this Khalistan you've fought a bloody battle for? 'Anyone who misbehaves or demands power would be tooken off within seconds regardless what others think." ...So now I am completely lost. Anyone who misbehaves or demands power would be taken off? Off of what exactly? A launch pad? A list of some sort? What are you talking about? Seriously, how does one become a part of the Government, (an institution of people given legal POWER to decide the state and affairs of the nation)? I'm sorry if I'm the only one that doesn't understand. " We would not try to make friends or enemies. We would not choose enemies, but let the others chose us as enemies if they wish." Honestly, you'd make a lousy diplomat of peace. Which reminds me, will there be diplomats of peace, in the land of peace and tranquility of Khalistan? Are you considering a position? Its nice to see how much the rest of the world means to you after the realization of this new nations borders. After that, the world is Khalistan right? The rest can die for all we care! Or did I mistake your meaning in this 'post'? "For president? We would have fair votes." Bravo.... Tell me, why pick a President? Why not a Prime Minister, or a Patriarch? What about a Commandante? Did you really think Khalistan would have a political head of state? Wait a minute, what about the Gurudwaras? Wait another minute, how can we pick a President when, as you so eloquently put it "Anyone who... demands power would be tooken off within seconds," I ask you? Do we all just decide? You are rounding up millions right, are you demanding power my veer? "If a candidate tries to bribe or blackmail or any oth er of the sort, they would atomatically lose." In case you haven't noticed. I'm playing your game now. Your rules. And you will lose because you've already said, "always do whats right - no matter what the costs." which can't be said in confidence without considering blackmail or bribery. You are nothing but a hypocrite. Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa! Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!! Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa! Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!! So far the_sikh, or anyone of you can only respond with propaganda as to the justification of Khalistan through war. You are not serious because you are not educated. I have done nothing but shown fault in your 'logic'. And as much as I am a thorn in your side, I won't go away. Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji asked questions to everything, while he was a Hindu. I shall follow in his footsteps. I do not fear your persecution as and ignorance. I fear only the will of Waheguru. You can't respond without using quotes that supposedly speak for themselves. No one here has had the confidence to speak intelligently against my views. I've faced attacks from members and administration. The sites disclaimer should apply to the orchestrators of this site as well. I get blocked from expressing my opinions. Yet you flex your hatred towards groups that can't possibly represent themselves here. You should be ashamed. Your insecurity is made further evident by ignoring my posts if you can't get rid of them. If you can't reply with the same dedication I bring to my arguments, then how can you possibly fathom receiving a country in the Sikh name? Yes, you have been purged. You have been stereotyped and assaulted. I can not forget. None of you were there in 1984 to fully claim exactly what happened. That is a weakness of humanity and history. Face it. You will never know the true course of events. Eve ryone is biased. There is no escaping it. Even if I am talking in tongues, many of you will never accept a Khalistan made in peace, even if it is offered to you. This is hate. This is disgusting. Smily faces shooting guns? A fight for land. Didn't we learn about illusion and its many forms? This is what Sikhism has become to you people. An excuse for power? Shame. I pity you. I pity your cause. Bloody as it will be. You show no remorse, then why should I? Block me. Ban me from this forum. Re-write my posts. Quote me without reading my post. You can kill the messenger, but you can't kill the message. There are many Sikhs who dare to read between lines. There are many Sikhs who try to be realist and practical about obtaining Khalistan. They find it is possible through peaceful means. They plan infrastructure. They consider the failures of other church states. They discuss and try to comprehend every aspect of the Khalistan. They truly love their cause, because they seek to find justice behind every action. A heavenly nation such as Khalistan can only be found through heavenly means. Guru Gobind Singh Ji fought with His pen before He fought with his sword. The least we can do is learn how to write. I dare you to argue against my statements without quoting our great sants so abrasively. I dare administration to leave this message posted for replies. I offend you? I make you mad and frustrated? I bring to you my views. Nothing more. I'm not here to convert you. I gave up on you and your cause a long time ago. I am here to warn you. Your actions represent all Sikhs, those for and against a Khalistan that is one won through war. I've dealt with stereotyping all my life. I accept it as a test of my faith. But I will not stand idly while millions jump the gun and use it to shoot innocent people and take what they cannot have by force. I am here to question. I am not here to make enemies. Your violent reactions are just evidence to me that you are not ready and insecu re. If you were so prepared and confident in your cause, you would be comfortable calm collected. You would be wise not to let your pride blind your judgement. Stop speaking for Sants. Stop arguing over small contradictions in their history. Triviality has led your minds astray. None of you should have the privelage to make such context sensitive quotes without thinking about it thoroughly. You command nothing with historical quotes out of context. You disrespect the Sants and Shaheeds by taking their words and converting them to a simplified truth, or objective. They said what they said so that the mistakes of the past are not endured again. If Khalistan is won through war, you and your decendants will face a lifetime of opposition. Exploitation. Revenge. Death. Destruction. Blood. War. Politics. These are the foundations of your Khalistan. These are not the foundations of Sikhism. No clickable smiles, or post icons can make this issue a lightened topic. This IS serious. This is controversial, even between us Sikhs, for a reason. For the sake of those who want to see the credibility behind the views, start by asking questions and answering them in as much detail as you can. Research. Love every aspect of your cause. How far after the reception of Khalistan have you planned or thought out? You spend so much time glorifying your warriorship. You have not even looked passed the edge of your swords. You can cut off the head, but it always grows back hard. I am here as long as you are. Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa! Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

Are you naive or are you just stupid? Despite what you have written, you are anything but serious about Khalistan. You are merely anger without any real direction. Who are you to make such idiotic things such as, "drinking, eating meat, and all that" illegal? What are the ramifications for breaking these, 'laws'? "The government would be strong - unlike indias current one." ...What kind of Government did you have in mind for our holy land Khalistan? Communist, Progressive Conservative, Khalistani Right? Any way you slice it, you're looking at a political party, with a political agenda leading a country dreamed up in spirituality. Can you really stick a politic al party on top of this Khalistan you've fought a bloody battle for? 'Anyone who misbehaves or demands power would be tooken off within seconds regardless what others think." ...So now I am completely lost. Anyone who misbehaves or demands power would be taken off? Off of what exactly? A launch pad? A list of some sort? What are you talking about? Seriously, how does one become a part of the Government, (an institution of people given legal POWER to decide the state and affairs of the nation)? I'm sorry if I'm the only one that doesn't understand. " We would not try to make friends or enemies. We would not choose enemies, but let the others chose us as enemies if they wish." Honestly, you'd make a lousy diplomat of peace. Which reminds me, will there be diplomats of peace, in the land of peace and tranquility of Khalistan? Are you considering a position? Its nice to see how much the rest of the world means to you after the realization of this new nations borders. After that, the world is Khalistan right? The rest can die for all we care! Or did I mistake your meaning in this 'post'? "For president? We would have fair votes." Bravo.... Tell me, why pick a President? Why not a Prime Minister, or a Patriarch? What about a Commandante? Did you really think Khalistan would have a political head of state? Wait a minute, what about the Gurudwaras? Wait another minute, how can we pick a President when, as you so eloquently put it "Anyone who... demands power would be tooken off within seconds," I ask you? Do we all just decide? You are rounding up millions right, are you demanding power my veer? "If a candidate tries to bribe or blackmail or any other of the sort, they would atomatically lose." In case you haven't noticed. I'm playing your game now. Your rules. And you will lose because you've already said, "always do whats right - no matter what the costs." which can't be said in confidence without considering blackmail or bribery. You are nothing but a hypocrite. Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa! Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!