stopsingh

The Guru Granth Sahib has been taken away once before only to be replaced again. Something needs to be done so they do not repeat this and we end up in a constant loop of visiting the ek niwas place every few months.

One of the problems has been that this saroop has been displayed at the V&A in 1999. They did this follwing advise from the Bhai Mohinder Singh of Guru Nanak Nishkam Sevak Jatha in Birmingham who advised that there were no doctrinal problems in displaying this manuscript in an exhibition. Again, I dont agree with this advise but clearly we can send very mixed messages if the debate extends.

I think that it would be much more positive and proactive if we offered better advise on how to handle and keep Sikh objects and manuscripts. Clearly these big organisations are getting some pretty shoddy guidnace from certain quarters. If you fell you can help me draft something to send to museum please do drop me a line. It may mot change anything immediately but it will inevitably help in the long run and avoid these kinds of instances.

Amandeep Veerji,

It still feels like it would be beadbi to GurBani if we let the museum display Sri Dasam Granth ji.

I don't understand why Bhai Sahib Mohinder Singh of Guru Nanak Nishkam Sevak Jatha advised that it would be OK to display Sri Dasam Granth ji in a glas

s cabinet in 1999. I am very upset by this, especially with Bhai Sahib being a major Sikh figure in the UK.

Regardless of what mistakes the Sikhs have made in the past, surely we must now fix it.

Why not contact Bhai Mohinder Singh of Guru Nanak Nishkam Sevak Jatha in Birmingham and ask why he said it was OK and ask him if they are going to rectify the damage done through the gold plating of the Darbar Sahib.

We have lost countless manuscripts due to the ignorance and pindu attitude our so called leaders in India have. The SGPC should be doing something similar to preserve the historically important Guru Granth Sahibs in India but are happy consigning our heritage to the flames. Only a few weeks ago they bought 50 Guru Granth Sahib from Pakistan. There is the possibility that some of these could be very important handwritten Guru Granth Sahibs which have more than likely been consigned to the flames as the SGPC appears to be intent on destroying Sikh heritage.

It is all good demanding this of the British Museums but at least they have bothered to preserve these rare Guru Granth Sahibs. We really need to get on to the SGPC so they pull out the stops and stop destroying our heritage.

GURU NANAK GURDWARA

GURU RAM DAS GURDWARA

GURU ARJAN DEV GURDWARA

GURU TEGH BAHADUR GURDWARA

I love these names! Why can't we have such names!

We do have such names :TH: . Its just that certain sections of the Sikh quam prefer to use names with descriptives like Ramgharia etc etc.

MOD Note : Both Jazz Singh and Stop Singh.. Don't Get carried away by mentioning "Blowing this up" dozen of times. It took us 15 mins to filter all messages of this thread. Next time it will go straight to trash can and strict moderation will be put on the certain member.

Whilst i appreciate your concerns I think you should apportion blame fairly. It was not me who was advocating silly things. I was trying to educate jazz that what he was saying was not right and could be hijacked to malign the panth.

Caste is not part of sikhi. My question is why we single out one caste when it comes to this issue? Some Jats are known to be proud of their farming heritage and lifestyle, and have taken it to the point where they write songs about it. There are also folk tales of famous jats.

But becuase of this the Jats are the primary target when it comes to the caste issue, because they are more open in the fact they are jat. If we were to split Punjab up, Jats make up 60-70 percent of the population. If there were any other caste with the majority, im pretty sure we would be talking about them being the problem of caste.

But, like i stated in another thread, Sikhi wants to stop ALL of this and not just by accusing one particular group. The fact is, every caste deals with their own be it Tarkhon, aluwalia, darji etc. This is because of lifestyle similarities and thinking. This is why castes tend to marry into the same caste, so there is no 'culture shock'. However, if we truly lived by Gurbani, we would truly have the same lifestyle. This, however, is not even near the reality of things.

All this being said, i see the real problem with the non-jat castes who, becuase of whatever insecurity it maybe, open up 'Caste Only' Gurdwaras which in my mind goes against everything having a Gurdwara represents. An example of this is Ramgarhia Gurdwaras sprouting up everywhere. As well, the Gurdwaras where people from particul

ar castes only go to. I dont see any Jat Gurughars and i dont see Jats choosing one gurdwara to go to just because other Jats go there.

The jat caste maybe wrong, but we are focusing too much on them being anti-sikh, and TOTALLY forgetting about the ENTIRE caste problem. Lets not ignore the problem with Jats, but lets not forget about everyone else too who is guilty.

Most caste issues are tagged with Jats, but has anyone ever seen a Gurdwara named with the intention of linking it with Jats ?

It is usually Ramgharia (thakaan) etc who make caste an issue by specifically using Ramgharia in the name of the Gurdwara.

now your calling pplz opinions stupid .yeah getting our holyland is stupid.we can take attack on our holiest gurdwara with indian tanks,but we musnt mention even discussion attacking never mind actually doing it as a defensive measure.if you dont want our land back so be it.but let those that want our land,get it.how do you know the future,we will get it back.

:wub: Yes if someone makes stupid childish type remarks -edited- I will attack such an opinion especially when it is known that a certain journalist is known to view these forums and use such posts to malign the Sikh quam. Then again perhaps you are not too concerned about the Sikh Panth being maligned due to your silly comments about bombing Delhi. :lol:

As for it being your Holy Land, Patna Sahib the Birthplace of Guru Gobind Singh Ji is in Bihar state, is that not also a holy land ?

I doubt that 80 million Muslims of West Pakistan are going to hand control of their Punjab to people like you. Dream on and have more imaginary visualisations.

Go on then, stop sitting

on your PC and start a revolution to get West Punjab back :D . Its easy tobe a general on a PC dreaming up all sorts of conquests. Ground reality is very different. :wub: ) .

MOD Note : Both Jazz Singh and Stop Singh.. Don't Get carried away by mentioning "Blowing this up" dozen of times. It took us 15 mins to filter all messages of this thread. Next time it will go straight to trash can and strict moderation will be put on the certain member.

its simple i want our holyland back,you dont.  if someone attacked a sikh gurdwara i would attack them,you however would not.

Hows it your holy land ? :T: It is not a question of whether I want it back or not. You should look at reality and ask yourself whether the Muslims of West Punjab would like to be ruled by people like YOU :T:

Get over it you are not going to get west Punjab back. :TH:

As for attacking a Gurdwara and launching a counter attack. I would refrain from making silly kiddie type remarks about -edited- etc. No where did you mention attacks on Gurdwara you were intent on disgusting remarks about -edited- without even thinking of the consequences.

I feel it is a waste of time even trying to educate you about how your remarks could be used to malign the Sikh panth as you appear to lack the capacity to accept and understand what you said was stupid ! :wub: )

Topic is not about "Chota" or "Vada" Ghalughara .. The report is not on that !!!

Mega ---> :lol:

Now shhsss

Anyone from this forum goes to GNFA ? is that the name of gurdwara?

:wub: ) :D ) :wub: ) :lol: ) :lol: ) :lol: ) :lol: ) :lol: )

No but original post has a link to a video file in which the report the reporter uses the term Wadha Gallughara to describe Bluestar. This may be bacause she does not know about the Wadha Gallughara or is confused. I do not want other people to view the report and get confused.

It is important that we do not forget the Wadha Gallughara of 1762 or allow people to confuse it with Bluestar. :TH:

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

Over 50 Naujawan Khalse met with the Gurdwara Committee of Sri Guru Singh Sabha Northampton (17-19 St Georges St) yesterday.

The Naujawan Khalsa was warmly received by the Gurdwara Committee and the meeting took place in the Divan Hall in the presence & guidance of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

Before commencing the meeting all joined to recite "Sri Benti Choupai Sahib da path".

The meeting was well structured and all relevant issues were discussed in a friendly & respectful manner.

The outcome is that the Committee have agreed to adhere to the Hukam of Sri Akal Takht and will not be allow Guru Maharaj's saroop to be taken to Hotels, Clubs & Pubs as of yesterday evening (7th August 2004).

Out of the 3 Anand Karaj's booked this year by the gurdwara one has been rescheduled to the gurdwara. The other two will also be re-scheduled to this Gurdwara or other Gurdwaras in the area. The Naujawan Khalsa will help the Gurdwara with this.

The Gyani Sahib of the Gurdwara did Ardas asking for forgiveness of previous actions and sumat for the future.

This has been a joint effort by Naujawans from all over the UK. The co-operation of the Committee has been appreciated by the Naujawan Khalsa.

Together we can overcome the issues facing the Khalsa Panth in the UK.

The Guru has blessed all with

his Grace!

GurFateh

Thank you very much for that excellent bit of news. :TH:

It is good to see a Gurdwara committee that is willing to change its practices.

I thank all my brothers and sisters who went to the meeting and the committee of the concerned Guru Ghar.

I think it would be good to keep this momentum going and if any other Gurdwara are allowing the beadbi of our Guru Ji to also target them in a similar way to get them to comply with the Hukumnama of the Akal Takht.

Pure Khalsa Singh doesn't have to do anything.. By his jarkara, this fake khalsa would piss in his pant  :wub:

It will take a bit of a job to find such a Khalsa Sigh in todays day and age. Most the so called Khalsa Singh I have seen are grossly overweight . uh .... there I go again stereotyping.

Seriously I sometimes wonder why the Sikhs have become so different in physique from the Singh from the misal period who were mostly tall and had very good physiques (descriptions of great leaders like Jassa Singh Ahluwalia). Some of our Guru promoted exercise, Guru Angad Dev Ji is said to have been a very good wrestler who encouraged people to keep fit.

Trust me Khal

sa (Daljeet Singh) woudl take ANy Wrestler whether it's the undertaker or hulk

:wub: :lol: :lol:

Why is Daljeet Singh a trained wrestler ?

I have never seen how Gatka people train so will not comment on their training, but I have seen lots of overweight Nihang Singh in India and doubt they could take one anybody in hand to hand combat with success unless they managed to sit on a person :D ) .

I have tried many martial arts but never found them physically demanding. However I tried wrestling and it was the only sport that required serious effort, stamina and dedication during training.

I urge all of you who want to keep in good physical condition to take up wrestling even if it is just to do the very hard exercises that wrestlers do. I am referring to amateur (greco roman and amateur freestyle wrestling) and not WWF, WWE etc.

so Hindu government can attack our holiest gurdwara,but sikh cant even mention something disgusting as you put it which the hindu gov has already carried out in 84.Pakland is Sikhland and always will be.No1 gives up their HOLYLAND. why should we not attack delhi if amritsar is attacked as in indra ghandi. we are not provoking,be we are being provoked.next if india gives us another attack,should we not mention any harm to delhi,again and again?at the end of the day our holyland was robbed from us by thiefs.

No we cannot because we are Sikhs and do not go round committing acts of terrorism and killing innocent people by -edited-, grow up and start to think before you post such irresponsible messages. Just because one side is stupid it does not mean we all follow in their steps! We are not lemmings.

From your posts you appear to be very confused with your "Pakland" -edited-. Sikhi teaches us about equality between mankind so we do not differentiate between human beings. Your messages of hate are the exact opposite. I suggest you read more about the true message of Sikhi before spouting the hate that appears to have built up inside you.

If it makes you happy do what you want and continue to post your disgusting messages, as you are intent on making people believe that Sikhs are a bunch of hothead extremists with your silly remarks about -edited-. Grow up, and read a few books so you understand more about the message of Sikhi before posting messages which malign Sikhs !

When you -edited- in your imagination do you put magic barriers around the Sikh Gurdwara in Delhi ?

Pure Khalsa Singh doesn't have to do anything.. By his jarkara, this fake khalsa would piss in his pant :wub:

It will take a bit of a job to find such a Khalsa Sigh in todays day and age. Most the so called Khalsa Singh I have seen are grossly overweight . uh .... there I go again stereotyping.

Seriously I sometimes wonder why the Sikhs have become so different in physique from the Singh from the misal period who were mostly tall and had very good physiques (descriptions of great leaders like Jassa Singh Ahluwalia). Some of our Guru promoted exercise, Guru Angad Dev Ji is said to have been a very good wrestler who encouraged people to keep fit.

it was on both sides,but we were been attacked and had to defend our holyland/gurdwara. my cuz got refused a visa.reason? some small gurdwara in pak are closed/ruins. isnt pak north of india/punjab?

Yes we were attacked and so were they (muslims) it was killings on both side and both sides were at fault. I have been told stories of a so called holy Baba who rode around on a horse torching villages and killing innocent women and children etc (is that what Guru Ji taught us). Just beacuse they were doing the same it does not make it right that Sikhs also followed up with similar actions. :wub: @

As for your cousins visa refusal, go over with a jatha and give all your documents in time and you should have no problems. For a Yatra visa you are officially advised to apply for a visa several months before travelling. I went in April and got my visa within a few days (went for a tourist visa rather than Yatra visa as it allows access to more of the country and less restrictions).

Na veerji the portion of Punjab in Pakistan is referred to as West Punjab and the Indian portion East Punjab.

(Look S1ngh I have not mentioned that statement )

If you acknowledge we are all "brovs and sis" then why make silly remarks about -edited-

u ain't let it go easily.. i know u gonna type that one in every single debate with jazz.. it's like a baby who got the lolypop ! jk mate

Na your right I will not let go especially if the person has not done any research and is talking gibberish which could be used to malign the Sikh quam like -edited-(there you go I have mentioned it again :wub: ). It is pathetic that someone makes such remarks especially when some journalist whose sole aim in life is to take such statements out of context in Canada is known to view this web site. Then in the next statement he dismisses it as mere chit chat.

The big fat overweight bufoon phoola killed scores of Sikhs. He was basically a police appointed killer.

Looking at him the man appears to be a total fat <banned word filter activated> who has eaten too many pies. He walks round in his nihang clothing and those white action trainers everyone used to wear in india.

Good report.

However the reporter refers to the genocide of june 84 as the wadha gallughara.

In Sikh history wadha gallughara is used to refer to the February 1762 massacre of Sikhs by Zain Khan and Ahmad Shah. This was a day when a large proportion of the then small Sikh population was wiped out in one day.

Its good remembering those killed in 84 but we should also remember those killed during the wadha gallughara in 1762.

I doubt very much that any other quam could have recovered from an event like 1762. It took a quam like the Sikhs to rise from this event and became the masters of Punjab.

I heard a few years back that Punjab University, Chandigarh (or was it Punjab Engineering College in Chandigarh) is second best in India and 5th best in Asia. Plus I also heard that literacy rate in Chandigarh was 100% some years back (not sure).

That maybe so but the situatio in the rest of Punjab is very different. Also as the article states one of the reasons for being top of the survey is that Punjab had a head start.

This needs to be maintained. With dwindling real farm incomes it is important that our youth get the right education and skill sets to market their skills in both india and abroad.

Good on Punjab :TH:

But please remember the following :T:

The signs of affluence (in Punjab) are all over -- luxury cars, glitzy malls, express flyovers, upmarket motels, five-star marriage palaces and resorts," said the India Today report.

"Punjab's relative prosperity has much to do with the head start it gained with the much-trumpeted green revolution," it added.

According to the survey, Kerala is the best performing state among all big Indian states in terms of law and order, health and education.

Education is very important and from my personal observations I find it sad that Punjab is not doing very well on that score. Although our youth are amongst the most hard working in the world (once they go overseas) they are not getting as far as the youths of southern states when it comes to jobs that require intellect. Lots of doctors have arrived in the UK from India. Most of these are from southern states. The nearest I have come to finding anyone of Punjabi stock was a nurse from Gurgaon in Haryana working at a UK hospital.

Also Bihar is bottom of the pile and guess what, lots of Biharis are now settled in Punjab I hope they do not start to drag the standards down.

NEWSFLASH: WRESTLING IS FAKE AND COREOGRAPHED! basically he is an overgrown actor...and i bet a million bucks that a real khalsa singh would make this guy cry for his naani in a real fight. :wub:

Whilst I dont doubt professional wrestling is fake I do doubt very much that a real Khalsa Singh would make this guy cry for his nani.

I have seen how hard wrestlers train. I have seen so called hardmen cry when it comes to training with wrestlers as their trianing regimes are so strict. Although this guy is a pro wrestler like most other apne he has probably wrestled at an amateur level. I doubt very much that a proper Khalsa Singh could outdo him on the wrestling mat. Of course it would be different story if it ws Gatka.

If anyone doubts the fitness levels, dedication etc required for wrestling I urge them to try it for a few weeks. All that karate, kung fu, shin kin ty

pe training is nothing when compared to the training of wrestlers. :TH:

1 down 2 to go.

Well done Amarjit Singh. :TH:

Also as Mkhalsa has stated do not let the situation escalate at the meeting. It is best that everyone keeps their cool and remember that the meeting will be in Guru Ghar. The Gurdwara appear to be sincere with their actions (as per Amarjit Singhs last post) and trying to stop these hotel weddings.

There is a clear edict from the Akal Takht banning the use of Guru Sahib in hotels etc. You must obey this rather than meeting other people to try and work a solution. There is only one solution : DO NOT TAKE GURU SAHIB TO THE HOTEL !

That's how it supposed to be !! There's no compromise in this case.. Guru jee can't be forced to be taken out of his own house (Gurdwara) .. we are servant of that house and if we do this, it is act of crime !

Amarjit veer heard our Views, Let keep little trust on him and wait for the outcome from this weekend meeting. Singhs should be there during the wedding day just to make sure that guroojee is not taken out and i can assure you if wedding still go on plan there will be HUGE campaign of gathering sikhs outside and won't let this happen !!

I pray that all those at this weekends meeting keep in mind that there can be no compromise as the edict from the Akal Takht must be obeyed. I have full faith in my brothers and sisters who will be attending the meeting this weekend. There is no work around for this if it means the Guru Sahib is t

aken to a hotel.

One thing to bear in mind for those attending is that If such a compromise is reached then all those party to it will be as guilty as the committee of flouting a Akal Takht edict.

n-e-way..

some people have habit of every taking topic to another world... so sticking with the topic which is "sikhs in Malaysia".. Im pretty much sure the employer must be one of the punjabi too.. There are thousands of sikhs in malaysia who will take care of this subject.. I am acually happy that this story came out as a news headline.. why? cauz other sikhs will guide those victims and will prevent this happening in future..

oops I am going off topic now. :D )

Yes some people do have a habbit of going off topic and that why it is only right to correct any missunderstanding their posts may contain. :wub:

Sometimes it is necessary to dig deeper as veer rsing did with good intentions trying to get behind the cause of the problem as to why these people want to leave Punjab. This is not going off topic but trying to understand the reasons behind the problem, it is all part of debating. If veer ji had gone on to talk about the price of bananas at Ludhiana bus station that would be off topic.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa

Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh.

There is no intention to deceive anyone.

As per the first posting we have arranged to meet a delegation of Sikh naujawaan and elders this weekend, to discuss the issue and reach a quick solution.

As I said we are in talks with the families concern, We are working with them to re-arrange the booked events so they can be held at the Gurdwara Sahib.

Those of you who have experience of organising events will know to make change this late stage does require further planning and time.

We hope to have completed the process over the weekend and will report back to the outcome.

In the meantime please be assured that we are doing everything possible to resolve this issue, and ask that you bear with us and keep checking for updates.

Amarjit Singh

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa

Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh.

Please tell me what is the point of meeting the Sikh naujawan and elders at the weekend ? Do the people you plan to meet have authority form the Akal Takht to negotiate on edicts that are in force (so you can come up with a solution)?

There is a clear edict from the Akal Takht banning the use of Guru Sahib in hotels etc. You must obey this rather than meeting other people to try and work a solution. There is only one solution : DO NOT TAKE GURU SAHIB TO THE HOTEL ! <

br>

Yes I know you intend meeting with the families but if they do not want a Gurdwara wedding then your statement implies that a hotel wedding will have to be done.

Where this is not possible or viable, we will personally do Ardas and ensure that our existing strict procedures for external Anand Karaj's are met with utmost respect.

I have experience of organising such event but I would have made sure the edict of the Akal Takht stopping beadbi of Guru Sahib was not ignored in the first place. It is down to ignorance that the Gurdwara Sahib committee ignored the hukum of the Akal Takht.

i wish you all the best and pray that the families are able understand the need for a Gurdwara wedding.

its bloody redicuolus. its well documented and said by sikhs of Panjab that if today somebody similar to shaheed Baba Jarnail Singh Khalsa came along all the rich would follow him.

Why? cause he was true and fought for there rights. every sikh in Panjab wants to move out of Panjab and go to other countries to earn money. they dont realise that the stories like these are true.

a sikh in Panjab can not find work even if hes educated/ a farmer cant sell his harvest outside of Panjab there are so may resrictions on people especially Sikhs, they cant even buy property out side Panjab. its restrictions of the Central Gov

The restrictions are not limited to just Sikhs and are not imposed by the central government but by states. Even Punjabi hindus cannot legally buy land in some other Indian states (just the same as Punjabi Sikhs) !

yeah but humans are all brovs and sis....all religions believe in the 1 same God etc. Alls im saying is pakistan was Sikh Land.It was taken,we did not give it.Millions of sikhs lost homes and died when they kicked us out.our most important Gurdwara are there but getting access is difficult.Remaining pak/sikh population lives in poverty and can,t vote.many important Gurdwara are neglected and stand in ruins etc etc. Thats alls im saying is we should get our own HOLY LAND NORTH PUNJAB BACK!wjkk wjkf.

I think you forget that there were killings on both sides during the partition it was not one sided killings. :D @

As for getting access, have you tried and been refused ? Its easy to say we dont have access until you actually make the effort to go over to Pakistan. I have heard that India has a blacklist of Sikhs who are refused visas into India etc but never heard about Pakistan having such a list.

As for neglected shrines, more and more shrines are being repaired and opened up. As for getting our "HOLY LAND NORTH PUNJAB BACK" its actually the western portion of Punjab that Pakistan has and not North punjab. :wub: )

If you acknowledge we are all "brovs and sis" then why make silly remarks about -edited- :T: