Singhballer

get out the salami and cheese mama, this ball game is over!

^^ there we have it folks

Sardari TV is a a half hour television program that airs on Vision TV here in Canada every Saturday at 5:00 PM Est.

http://www.visiontv.ca/shows/sardari/

The show is hosted by a man named Rana Sidhu. Over the last month I noticed anti-gurmat discussions during his religious segment. He has often put on tapes of a well known Kala Afghana/Missionary parcharak Sarbjit Dhunda on his show as well as intervied another Kala Afghana parcharak Gurbachan Thailand wala. In today's program he had another missionary person who was giving a response to a Sant Ranjit Singh Dhadrianwale diwan recording, pointing out what was wrong with what Baba Ranjit Singh was saying.

Information about Gurbachan Thailand Wala: http://www.sikhsanga...gurdwara-sahib/

Rana Sidhu posts the recordings of his show on the internet so here are some examples.

Dhunda

http://www.youtube.c...u/8/CyXrq4s3_4A

http://www.youtube.c.../14/sg_qGqYvdtc

Thailand wala

http://www.youtube.c...u/2/4dIwhHKP3Tc

http://www.youtube.c...u/1/KJHMzmdQID4

This program is shown across Canada on Vision TV and I'm sure thousands of people see it every week. I have not heard a single person speaking out about Sardari TV's anti-Gurmat activities, which is very alarming. This has been going on for months. Anti-Gurmat preachers, with whom Rana Ranbir probably shares views, have been given air time on his show every week. It seems to me very few people, if any, are aware of what they are watching. Unsuspecting viewers across Canada may be believing that what they hear on this show is real Sikhi, influencing a lot of people to belive in falsehood and drift away from Gurmat teachings.

I don't think this guy should be allowed to continue what he is doing. What can we do to stop him?

This has been happening, gotten stronger, and is going to continue to happen.

What do we do about it?

How do we stop this anti-Sikh movement and show the general populace the truth?

I remember posting stuff about these dudes and sending a call to people on here to get some ideas together to counter these bsers but got no replies.

Sheheed Bhai Gurdev Singh Debu

Did not say a word even when faced with a boiling tub of water..

http://www.sikhlionz.com/martyrbhaigurdevsinghdebu.htm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WGXg5EzM1o&feature=related

how kool is this? its more interesting to wtach, better than 3d. (on a side not, imagine dat was Mai Bhago Ji leading the 40 mukte to the battle near the end of the video)

My FAVOURITE movies of all time are the Lord of The Rings trilogy films.. just complete masterpieces. Watching them in high definition you really grasp how much detail filmakers can put into a film. All the skin, beards, hair.. looks so natural and real. Its really amazing.

Movies about Sikh history would be awesome but it would have to be done right.. to the pedigree of films like the Lord of The Rings Trilogy.

Having been around the pro Khalistani camp for the best part of my life, I've heard a lot of what we were, what we achieved and what we stood for. I have also heard a lot about what the nation will be like and how great life there will be. What I've NEVER heard is how it's going to happen.

Knowledge of history is paramount as it has a tendency to repeat itself, plans for a future state are essential to set out a target to be achieved but where is the plan of action to set us upon the right track to achieve this?

Whenever there is the response to whatever topic that 'Khalistan is the only way forward/answer' etc etc, I always find myself asking, 'fair enough point, but how?'

I agree. There have been a lot of great points made on this forum about what Sikh Raj, what Khalistan would be like, the ability of Khalistan to function as a nation etc, but there has not been much about what must the Sikh kaum do to make it happen.

What practical things can we do to start the process of nationhood?

The economical viablity of Khalistan was discussed in this thread. There have been great points and proofs given by posters in the thread.

http://www.sikhsanga...y-of-khalistan/

Tell me how people are possessed in India on such a large scale?

Never see this kind of garbage in Canada

it is one of the lowest points

we were low when we were being persecuted by Abdali and the likes.

but persecution from within is on a whole other level of low.

Sikhs in Canada already have problems with their image being synonymous with gangster culture

None of my friends dress like they are members of the crips. They don't scream "Thug Life" and empty clips. And none of them are Singhs.. just regular old Punjabis. So I disagree that a Punjabi's image in Canada is synonymous with gangster culture.

EL OH EL

Izhar Alam has been given a ticket to contest the Punjab elections on behalf of the Shiromani Akali Dal.

Anyone need any more proof that there is no Sikh leadership left in politics?

Pakhand. Do a forum search you'll find more info posted about them.

He first protected the streets, and afterwards celebrated? what is so wrong?

Who said he was protecting the streets?

There were only a handful of those kinds of people in Vancouver that night.

This is the problem Keshdhari/amrithdhari Sikhs been worrying about since 1947 and that fear was created by SGPC (freemasons). During the times of the Sikh misls there was keshdhari, amrithdari and sahejdhari Sikhs. Sahejdhari Sikhs were essential for the survive of the Sikh panth during the mughul era because any guy who appeared overtly like a gurSikh would be hunted down and killed there and then. Sahejdhari's were to the mughuls and afghans as underground christians were to the romans. They provided the continuation of the faith at the most difficult phases in our history.

I would refute that. How could non practicing Sikhs have saved things like Amrit Sanchaar, the importance of the 5 Kakkars and Rehit, Shastar Vidiya, Gurbani Vidiya? Those things would have been lost.

The Singhs that lived in the jungles, mountains, deserts in hiding are those that kept Sikhi alive in all its aspects. When Ahmed Shah Durrani was ransacking India the Singhs were alive and well. They attacked his caravans, freed the kidnapped women and the spoils he was tacking with him. They would then go back into hiding. Saying that it was Sikhs living in plain sight under the noses of the Mughal and Afghan powers isn't so real when Singhs alive and keeping Sikhi safe in the Jungles.

This we have to achknowledge and this is where we have to draw up another rehat maryada that takes inspirtional from SGGS ji because I cant find anywhere in the SGGS ji that states once must keep their kesh to be a Sikh to gain salvation. All Gurbani says is that you keep your kesh to because you are humble you renounce your ego.

You wont find taking Kandey Batey da Amrit, compulsory Shastar Vidiya, Miri Piri, etc. in Siri Guru Granth Sahib, but those are HUGE concepts in Sikhi. The importance of Kes in Sikhi is immense. Other Sikhs on this forum are more knowledgeable than me. Send some info Genie's way.

Guru Nanak dev ji even states in gurbani how sidhus (hindu holymen) keep dirty matted uncut hair thinking they will get spiritual powers. He was showing what a nonsense that idea was

Yes thinking that keeping long hair will give you spiritual powers is a nonsense suggestion. But the nonsense part is thinking long hair will give you powers.. keeping kes isn't the nonsense part.

You have still failed to adress the following concerns I and others raised about non Amritdharis to be allowed to vote:

Yes SOME non Amritdharis have full faith in the Guru and would look out for the Panth. But there are LOADS of others that wouldn't be looking out for the panth. There is no way to check the intentions of these people.

Its much harder to change your appearance to look like a Singh than it is to look like a "Sikh".

Giving non Amritdharis the right to vote would allow any christian, muslim, hindu, jew etc. to go and vote. All you have to do is say I am a Sikh and I believe in the Guru and you'd be allowed to vote. That is a BIG BIG problem. It is too easy for non Sikhs to compromise the voting and possibly elect people with an anti-Sikh mentality as an SGPC member. Whos to say some groups like the RSS wouldn't back some Kala Afghana Missionary School product and get him in as an SGPC member to alter and distort Sikhi from its centre?

Genie, I understand that having political power is essential for Sikhs to flourish in the future, but how do we get that power?

We obviously cannot have people who don't follow Gurmat to the fullest to lead us. That cuts out the Badals. That cuts out any non Kes keeping Sikh. People will remember that although Sant Jarnail Singh Ji was a leader for Sikhs he in no way was a political leader. He would in now way would have joined a political party, stood in an election or taken a seat in a legislature. No real Sant mahatma will ever come into politics.

Who the hell do we support? <- Would really like this answered.

How does giving non Amritdharis the right to control who gets to be a Sikh leader help better our leadership? A true Khalsa would want the best for his Panth, to put the leaders up there who he/she knows will be doing their best to improve the Panth. I know for a fact my Chacha dosen't give a rat's a$$ about the panth. He would not use his vote for the best of the Panth. How does giving him the vote help our Panth? It dosen't.. it worsens it. Yes SOME non Amritdharis have full faith in the Guru and would look out for the Panth. But there are LOADS of others that wouldn't be looking out for the panth. There is no way to check the intentions of these people.

Its much harder to change your appearance to look like a Singh than it is to look like a "Sikh".

Giving non Amritdharis the right to vote would allow any christian, muslim, hindu, jew etc. to go and vote. All you have to do is say I am a Sikh and I believe in the Guru and you'd be allowed to vote. That is a BIG BIG problem. It is too easy for non Sikhs to compromise the voting and possibly elect people with an anti-Sikh mentality as an SGPC member. Whos to say some groups like the RSS wouldn't back some Kala Afghana Missionary School product and get him in as an SGPC member to alter and distort Sikhi from its centre?

That would be insane.

Too much meddling in the affairs of Sikhs by people who aren't looking out for the best of the Panth.

Punjab just gets so freaking frustrating.. always something new setting the Panth back

Its too late Badal and Sant Samaj have a tight grip on Akal Takht

Sant Samaj have a right grip on Akal Thakt?

LOL if they did the Akal Thakt approved rehit would have been corrected long ago, the nanakshahi calender confusion would have been cleared.

You think if Sant Samaj was in control of the Akal Thakt Gursikhs like Sant Hari Singh Ji would allow the innacurate/wrong rehit and calender to continue?

Don't think so

Sure, seems likes a good idea to have non Khalsa be able to vote.. but how are we to check if they truly believe in Guru Sahib?

All someone has to do now is decalre I believe in the 10 Gurus and Siri Guru Granth Sahib and they are allowed to vote. ANYONE could come and say that and be able to vote. Any Hindu, Muslim, Christian, atheist.. anyone.

Replying to the original poster.

Here is a Sakhi of Sant Gian Singh Ji who were of Nirmal Kutia Johlan a samparda in lineage from Hoti Mardan. The Lineage of Nirmal Kutia sort of runs parallel to Harkowal.

Anyway here it is: http://nirmalkutiyaj...=article&id=306 :biggrin2:

It is normally observed that an individual following a particular religion does not have the tendency to think about other religions. Only a few truly blessed by the Almighty consider all religions on the same platform. These few reach the highest level of love for the humanity.

A follower of Hanuman ji worshipped his Lord by daily visits to the temple. His devotion increased to such an extent that Lord Hanuman, presented himself in person during his worship.

This became a routine for the worshipper. Nothing could stop this discipline not even rain or storm. A day came when Lord Hanuman did not bless him with His DARSHAN. He became sad and was a little perplexed from this absence. It was only on the third day that he had the DARSHAN of Lord Hanuman. The devotee asked his Lord, "Hanuman ji Maharaj! I have not understood about your absence. Please let me know where you were during the past two days?"

Lord Hanuman said, "I was with my Lord Rama. My Lord Rama is here in Delhi these days. I was therefore present there in his attendance."

The devotee requested, "Maharaj! Please bless me also with the DARSHAN of Lord Ram ji in whose attendance you have passed two days."

Lord Hanuman said, "Certainly! My beloved Lord Rama has appeared in the house of Sardar Piara Singh, contractor, in Gobindpuri. You can have His DARSHAN there."

The devotee went to Gobindpuri and located the house of Sardar Piara Singh ji. He saw Sant Baba Gian Singh ji Maharaj. He received a typical tranquility on seeing Sant Maharaj ji. He bowed before Sant Maharaj ji. He thought that his Lord Hanuman had seen Lord Rama in Sant Maharaj ji. This was an indication that he should continue visiting Gobindpuri. From that day onwards, he left worshipping Lord Hanuman. The Holy saint blessed him with the baptism of the ambrosial nectar of the two edged sword. This devotee is still in high spirits and follows the discipline prescribed by the Panj Piaras (Five beloved). He involves himself in SEWA during the anniversary celebrations at the Nirmal Kutiya Johalan.

If you like Daduwal then go ahead and support him but give him money out of your own pocket.

Baba Baljit Singh Ji and his Jatha are running a few Gurdwaras in the region where Sirsa wala greatly recruits. In those Gurdwaras children are given free education about Sikhi and Gurmukhi. He and his Jatha go place to place doing kirtan or katha and to date thousands of people must have taken amrit through his parchar. Wherever his jatha hears of beadbi they go there and make sure it stops. They have taken the saroops of Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji from many places where Guru Ji was being utterly disrespected.

Would it not be beneficial to give someone like that funds so the Singhs in his Jatha can take of their families, pay for fuel, continue the seva of Gurdwaras and overall be more succesful in getting people away from pakhandi deras and back into Sikhi? I think it would.

Yes there are some extra judicial murders still going on, some police brutality going on and some beadbi still going on, though not even 20% of what was happening in the 80s.

Sure its less, but it still happens and that means Punjab is not a safe, law abiding and completely civil society. Also there are still THOUSANDS of families who lost family members, were tortured, raped due to actions by the Punjab authorities and have recieved no justice. Thousands of criminal Police and Government officials are living freely in Punjab and the Government protects them and purposely fails to bring them to justice even though the Akali Dal Badal promised they would hunt down every single criminal responcible for crimes against the innocent.

These activities are purely the work of the Indian Government in order to provoke Sikhs into mass rebellion so that they have an excuse to brutally repress us and set us back another 20 years, since we have gained a bit of strength since 84 with the relative peace and had a bit of an opportunity to re-group.

As I wrote above the Punjab Governement is responcible for a lot of the crimes commited against the people during those times and today.

I fail to see the strength we gained. Our "Sikh" leaders like Badal and his Government aren't Sikhs at all. They work against Sikhi by refusing to bring criminals to justice, giving huge amounts of Government funds to Pakhandi deras and continuing to order the Police to use inhumane force and torture against the people of Punjab. All the promises our "Sikh" leadership made in the past 30 years have all been broken.

All the rights Sikhs were protesting for in the Dharam Yudh Morcha have still not be attained. Sikhs are still HIndus as per the Indian Constitution, as you may be aware just a few days ago the Indian Minister for Law rejected the plea from Sikhs to take us out of the Hindu Marriage Act and give us the Anand Marriage Act so that we are not legally Hindus when Sikhs get married in India. We have no identity in India.

Since the 80s Sikhi has dwindled in Punjab. A corrupt SGPC failed horribly to do parchar in Punjab and continues to do so. Pakhandi deras such as Radhaswamis, Sirsa Wala, Ashutosh and countless fake Babas on the village level have flourished in Punjab.

What strength are you seeing that I fail to see?

People like Daduwal and other radicals are playing right into their hands by reacting to their provocation and trying to mobilise the panth against the government and their activities.

Radical? How is he a radical? He has not started any violence with anyone. Show me any proof of where he has initiated a fight wether verbaly or physicaly with anyone.

I have listed above what he does.

If you want the Sikh movement to FAIL and for Sikhs to get set back another 20 years, then go ahead and support these people. Go out there and give your shaheedian, weigh the dushts heads in gold and take on the government with your mass rebellion.

See above.

I don't like the gold idea.

You may be surprised at exactly how unprepared you and the rest of the kaum actually are for this kind of activity.

What kind of activity?

Like I said, you dont get what I am saying and you never will. You will continue to rant and rave, raise slogans and pick fights with people who do not subscribe to your point of view.

Please explain what you're saying. I don't rant and rave, just state facts that I happen to know. I don't pick fights with anyone.

If you said to me, that the focus of your movement was:

1. Increase parchaar and increase the number of amritdharis in Punjab

2. Increase education in Sikhi and Sikh history in Schools and villages in Punjab

3. Use peaceful methods ONLY to campaign for satkaar regardless of the provocation

4. Lobby for greater state autonomy in Punjab

5. Lobby for the punjab police to review its methods of control and restraint and riot control

6. Set up a legal panel to fight Sikh cases relating to discrimnation and wearing of kakkars etc

7. Set up funds to promote schools, sports institutions and other facilities that Sikhs can benefit from

1 and 2 Sant Baljit Singh Ji do with great effort.

3. Let's say someone was holding a bottle of water above Guru Sahib and was ready to pour it on their Saroop. He is not listening to the Singh telling him to move away from Guru Sahib. How can you deal with that without physicaly stopping him? You can't.

Show me any place where Sant Baljit Singh Ji and his jatha used violence to stop beadbi.

4. In The Dharam Yudh Morcha Sikhs were trying to get the Anandpur Resolution passed back in the 70s and 80s. (Anandpur Resolution - http://en.wikipedia....dpur_Resolution) This resolution was about greater autonomy for Punjab. You can read it for yourself the different points. Control over Punjab's waters, to give Punjab control over all Punjabi speaking areas that were given over to Rajasthan, Haryana and Himachal Pardesh, uplifting poor citizens through amendemnts to labour laws, to give approval for industry factories to be built in Punjab etc. You can read it for yourself. Anyway, the Indian Government turned this down.. even the simplest of things such as giving Amritsar the title of a Holy City just as Hardiwar has and giving permission for a broadcasting station that would be funded by the Khalsa Panth so that Gurbani could be listened to all over the world. LOL they didn't accept that either. This resolition was created by the Shiromani Akali Dal and specialy endorsed by Parkash Badal.. the current leader of the government in power and he somehow forgot about this document

I think greater autonomy would be amazing and I'd be the first to support it, but the "Sikh" leadership has chosen to forget about the Anandpur Resolution and the Indian Governement refuses to give Sikhs equal right, recognition of a distint identity, and greater autonomy. I highly doubt that would change in the future unless there is enormous demand from the people of Punjab.

5. K.P.S Gill (Former Director General of Police) and Sumedh Saini (Former Superintendent of Police) have adamantly said countless times the Punjab police did not partake in any kind of illegal detention, abduction, brutality, torture, and extra judicial killings under their command. But we all know they are blatantly lying. Shaheed Bhai Jaswant Singh Khalra uncovered municipal records showing the Punjab Police had illegaly cremated thousands of "unclaimed" and "unidentified" bodies.. he befell the same fate as those he brought to light. Ram Narayan Kumar of The Committee for Coordination on Disappearances in Punjab documented hundreds of human rights violations carried out by the state. The Punjab Police still refuse to recognise they did any of the above mentioned crimes.

These human rights violations were taken all the way to the Supreme Court of India and to the National Human Right Commission but no action has been taken against anyone.

I immensly doubt that a corrupt and inhumane organisation like the Punjab Police would actualy make drastic changes.

6. The SGPC has a Legal and Human Rights wing that has emplyed lawyers that fight cases for Sikhs whos Rehit has been scrutinised in India. SGPC has a budget of around what? Like $200 million if I'm not mistaken.

7. I think we gotta go with priorities first. Yes educate young Sikhs in Sikhi, Gurmukhi, History etc. as Baba Baljit Singh Ji are doing. But should making soccer fields and community weight rooms be more important than providing money to the poverty ridden families who are victims of violence intiated by the Punjab Government. Should we not help them send their children to school, pay for food, pay for a means to earn a living?

If the above were your aims and objectives I would happily agree with you and even join you. However, I will not sit here and let people like yourself lead our kaum into doom... and neither will many others, hence you will find resistance in many sectors of the Sikh community. Many Sikhs, unlike yourself, have learnt the lessons from history and will not make the same kind of mistakes again.

I agree with some of your points and it would be great to have them be a reality. But the fact is you were slandering a person who is actually implementing your points in Punjab. Don't you think a person who is making a difference in Parchar be supported?

You have also failed to provide any proof of Baba Baljit Singh Ji and his Jatha ever initiating violence to stop beadbi or pakhand.

Common man, you can't say that I didn't learn my lessons from history when I provided you with facts in my previous post.

What mistakes will I make again?

Iv probably wasted my breath on you but it was worth a try.

Nice one, man

Naaw, you didn't

Double post.

Daduwal has done satkaar work in Punjab and I commend him for that. But I also think that he is a trouble maker and an uneducated pindu who thinks that starting fights with Sacha Sauda followers is some kind of great panthic work. And its not as if him and his chelay can even do that properly, given that the best they have ever been able to achieve is give as good as they get on a couple of occassions when both sides have waved sticks and thrown bricks at each other for a few hours. If that is your idea of great panthic work, then fair play to you.

He does satkaar work and you just comend him? This is Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.. not someones bibi. To stop the beadbi of Guru Sahib is HUGE, it is no small deed. And he and his Jatha have done it numerous times.

An uneducated pindu? A person who spent years at Dam Dami Taksal and later with Sant Hari Singh Ji Randhawe wale learning the different dialects, sikh history and the proper meaning of Gurbani is just an uneducated pindu? nice one man.

Daduwal is doing this for popularity and publicity. He wants to be the new Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale and the Indian Government want him to be too. Hence why they arrested him and then quickly released him, as he suits their purposes, as a radical Sikh, disrupting harmony in Punjab, and destabilising the Sikh Kaum further.

Where is your proof that he is going around and stopping pakhand and beadbi just for publicity and popularity? The Indian Government arrests and releases every Sikh who is working to raise awarness in the panth, its not done to the few. You can look into the last 10 years or the 20 before that. All those people arrested for protesting, what did they do wrong? Nothing, only that they were creating a movement for better rights or liberties. Yet they arrested tens of thousands of people and unlawfuly kept them in jail only to realise them a few days after. Sant Jarnail Singh Ji was only ever arrested once, not numerous arrests and releases.. so there is no comparison on that plane.

Wait.. Punjab right now is a harmonius and peaceful state?<_< Last time I checked Punjab police are still arresting innocent people, still practicing atrocious torture methods and killing people through extra judicial murders (Shaminder Singh Shera - http://www.youtube.c...h?v=DHztKW1YRpY, Police Torture -

Last time I checked police brutality is still INSANE in Punjab (Ludhiana 2009 -

Last time I checked the leaders of Punjab visit, pray to and allow addmitence into Punjab of anti-Sikh babas even know the Pujab Government knows that they are pakhandis that have talked ill about Sikhi. And on top of that give them huge amounts of funds. ( Ashutosh, Sirsa, Naamdharis)

Last time I checked the killers of Sikhs, those who were resopncible for hundreds of deaths of innocent people walk freely and have the Punjab Government support them legally in the courts. Justice still alludes thousands of Punjabi families for crimes commited by the state in Punjab.

(Sumedh Saini then Super Intendent of Punjab Police - http://blogs.law.har...r-sumedh-saini/ ,

All those things above are what makes Punjab are harmonious state right? nice one man.

It is no surprise that noone wants to support him. The jathedars dont like him, the politicans dont like him and the heads of all the main jathebandian dont like him.

Why would politicians and the pets of politicians whos corruption and immoral rule Sant Baljit Singh Ji Daduwal wale are speaking out against want to support him? Which main Jathebandian don't like him, and what proof do you have to support that claim?

He is a liability and a dangerous and harmful force for the Sikh kaum.

So fighting to stop beadbi, spreading the message of Sikhi to get people to cease going to Pakhandi deras, organising the upkeep of a handful of Gurdwaras, providing Gurmat learning for children, and speaking out against injustices make him a dangerous and harmful force for the Sikh kaum? nice one man.

And then on National television, they are suggesting that Sikh jathebandian should basically openly support militant activity,

Already refuted your militiant support claim in my earlier post.

They also demanded that UK jathebandian publically pledge to give money to the families of Singhs killed or imprisoned after they murder the perpetrators of beadbi.

They actually didn't say that. Kam Singh said to provide money for imprisoned Sikhs that were trying to get beadbi to stop, not to give assistence for those who "murder the perpetrators" as you so put it.

Daduwal and his cheley waving sticks at Sacha Sauda meetings? Who are you? LOL

Sant Baljit Singh Ji have gone to numerous pinds and taken dozens of Saroops of Guru Sahib from places where beadbi was taking place.. like people putting the Saroop on shleves or in trunks and calling it a Gurdwara.

Kam Singh didn't say "YOU GUYS HAVE TO PAY FOR THIS".. he was asking them to show wether they agreed with the motion to provide funds for the Singhs in India who are fighting beadbi as a collective sangat.

Are you a Dera panthi by any chance? You're not very up to date on the beadbi issue.

I hope he is given a proper punishment by a court of law.. would be for the best to set an example so this dosen't happen again.

ballin