sikhlionz
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why not?! just need cross-panth support :lol:
with the unity us sikhs got anythings possible
either way we can't let sgpc veto who we decide jathedar to be... that's wrong- sgpc are government chosen chumchae.
otherwise panth may as well give jathaedari to badal or congress-elect
at least then there'd be transparency
either we're sovereign or gulaam: it's our choice
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5. The ideal Jathedar will only be choosen when the individual is chosen by a criteria.
He/She needs to have:-
- a full rehaitvan Gursikhi jeevan,
- knowledge of Sikh rehat maryada, sikh history, and Gurbani.
- be an intellectual
- courage and spirit to speak against oppression and corruption
- knowledge of world affairs, media, and consider Sikhi a world religion, not a punjab religion.
At this moment there is no one than stands to mind that fits this context in Panjab. I firmly believe the ideal jathedar will now come from abroad as Punjab has a slave idealogue aswell as a corrupt one, inheret in it.
Jathedars needs to nurtured and created. The prominent jathabandies need to look at this. The Panth is weak, but jathebandies are strong. This is a bad situation for the Panth. The strong jathabandies need to unite to create a strong Panth. Often this means sacrificing thier self-interest.
very interesting thoughts jagjit paji
i think i've already made it clear that i believe some changes are needed! :lol:
whoever is jathedar needs to be able to stand up to anybody be they sgpc, chief minister of punjab, pm of india, ANYONE
i can't see
this happening
Sikh sovereignty is being sold off to the highest bidder from the top down
we need to correct this issue from the bottom upwards meaning the Panth needs to get together in numbers and overthrow the corrupt leaders that are betraying us
Surprisingly it looks like the only solution to the problem is a marxist/veblenist one
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ahunkaar is the worst
all the rest are not as subtle. Who can deny self-love? When time comes for any type of qurbani no matter how small how many just say i don't want to be hurt or face a cost for this sikhi
ahunkaar is a baba-basher. Some of the greatest bhagats have lost their way due to ahunkaar such as Ravan in Hinduism, the excommunicated Ram Rai in sikhi, countless modern day examples, etc. There was a lot of shabads available for the Gurus to add to SGGS but constantly were rejected due to this.
Even if you beat all the other ahunkaar is so slippery and easy to fall into it's amazing
examples of my limitless ahunkaar:
1) when i joined this forum i asked to be given a better rating
2) a good friend of my dads said to me the other day "so you want to become an accountant do you?" i responded "i'm looking for a career a cut above that" (then i remembered he was an accountant)
i could continue for the rest of my life
even saying "my" is feeding ego
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you'd reeeeeeeeeally prefer a proper Singh over these brahmin boot-licking sikh leaders? :lol:
only joking these boot-lickers should become stand up comedians
i'd prefer any pm; hindu, sikh, muslim, christian, whatever so long as they'd change the constitution and stop oppressing sikhs...
fat chance
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my personal view which like all my views i dont push on nobody is that the real jathedar would have to be ranjit singh. However, whoever would be jathedar would have to be 100% accountable to khalsa panth who should have the final say on choosing
even if you did not respect him for nothing he did as jathedar- sorting out narakhdari bachana means he's worth his weight in gold :lol:
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gursikhs don't "hate hindus"; they don't "hate" anyone. There are many similarities between the 2 religions and it would be interesting if we invite some RSS people, who claim to be experts on this topic, over to the site to explain these similarities in greater depth. Not just Hinduism i'd like to know similarities between Sikhi and other faiths also. Have a few books at home- will try to scan some up soon.
A Sikh will continue to learn until the day he dies, i'm sure Hinduism will provide him with countless lessons to learn.
Guru Gobind Singh Ji was right when he spoke along the lines of Recognise all Ye Humankind as one. I warmly welcome my hindu brothers and sisters on the forum. For equilibrium let's consider a balanced comparison of sikhi and hinduism by including both sides of the coin:-
Guru Nanaks first sermon was na ko Hindu, na Mussalman, "there is no Hindu, no Muslim." Guru Nanaks own Word denies any distinctions among humankind. Thus, to consider him as a Hindu saint or reformer is thus erroneous. Furthermore, the Sikh scriptures deny deriving any authority or inspiration from any scriptures of any religion, and repeatedly refute the authority of the Vedas and other Hindu texts.
Gauri Ki Vaar, Mahla 4, Aang 308, SGGS:
O Sikhs of the Guru, know that the Bani, the Word of the True Guru, is true, absolutely true. The Creator Lord Himself causes the Guru to say it.
Raag Bhairo, M. 5, Aang. 1136, SGGS:
I do not keep fasts, nor do I observe the month of Ramadaan. I serve only the One, who will protect me in the end. || 1 ||
The One Lord, the Lord of the World, is my God Allah. He
administers justice to both Hindus and Muslims. || 1 || Pause ||
I do not make pilgrimages to Mecca, nor do I worship at Hindu sacred shrines. I serve the One Lord, and not any other. || 2 ||
I do not perform Hindu worship services, nor do I offer the Muslim prayers. I have taken the One Formless Lord into my heart; I humbly worship Him there.||3||
I am not a Hindu, nor am I a Muslim. My body and breath of life belong to Allah to Raam the God of both. || 4 ||
O Kabeer, this is what I say: meeting with the Guru, my Spiritual Teacher, I realize God, my Lord and Master. || 5 || 3 ||
Raag Ramkali, M.3, Anand, Aang. 920, SGGS:
Bani, the Word, other than that of the True Guru, is false.
Raag Maru, M.3, Aang. 1066, SGGS:
The Bani (Word) of the Guru prevails throughout this world. Through this Bani, Gods Name is obtained.
Raag Maru, M.1, Aang. 1028, SGGS:
Accept as True, Perfectly True, the Word of the True Guru's Bani.
In this way, you shall merge in the Lord, the Supreme Soul. || 14 ||
As we believe in One Akaal Purakh Sikhism is more akin to the Semitic religions, than Hinduism
Raag Tilang, Kabir, Aang. 727, SGGS:
There is but one God, the creator, obtained by the grace of the True Guru.
The Vedas and the Scriptures are only make-believe, O Siblings of Destiny; they do not relieve the anxiety of the heart. If you will only center yourself on the Lord, even for just a breath, then you shall see the Lord face-to-face, present before you. || 1 ||
O human being, search your own heart every day, and do not wander around in confusion. This world is just a magic-show; no one will be holding your hand. || 1 || Pause ||
Reading and studying falsehood, people are happy; in their ignorance, they speak nonsense. The True Creator Lord is diffused into His creation; He is not
in the image the dark-skinned Krishna of legends. || 2 ||
Raag Asa, M.5, Aang. 397, SGGS:
He (God) is beyond the world of the Vedas and the Semitic texts.
The Supreme King of Nanak is immanent and manifest. || 4 || 3 || 105 ||
The Tenth Nanak, Guru Gobind Singh, rejected the authority of Hindu texts, saying, "All the Smritis, Shastras, Vedas etc. claim to reveal many divine secrets, but I do not recognize even one of these." The Gurus message recognizes these texts as well as holy books of other faiths as possible useful sources of knowledge and that may benefit humankind. However, the source of liberation, the channel for mankinds union with God is the True Guru. Moreover, for a Sikh, the Word of the True Guru, as enshrined in the SGGS, remains the ultimate spiritual guide:
Raag Malaar, M.3, Aang. 1276, SGGS:
The world is involved with the words of the Vedas, thinking about the three gunas - the three dispositions. Without the Name, it suffers punishment by the Messenger of Death; it comes and goes, in cycles of births and deaths, over and over again. Meeting with the True Guru, the world is liberated, and finds the Door to Salvation. || 1 ||
Raag Ramkali, M.3, Anand, Aang. 920, SGGS:
The [Hindu] Smritis and the Shaastras discriminate between good and evil, but they do not know the true essence of reality. They do not know the true essence of reality without the Guru; they do not know the true essence of reality. The world is asleep in the three modes and doubt; it passes the night of its life sleeping. Those humble beings remain awake and aware, within whose minds, by Guru's Grace, the Lord abides; they chant the Ambrosial Word of the Guru's Bani. Says Nanak, they alone obtain the essence of reality, who both night and day remain lovingly absorbed in the Lord; they pass the night of their life awake and aware. || 27 ||
Raag Asa, M. 1, A
ang. 471-72, SGGS
They wear their loin cloths, apply ritual frontal marks to their foreheads, and carry their rosaries, but they eat food with the Muslims. O Siblings of Destiny, you perform devotional worship indoors, but read the Islamic sacred texts, and adopt the Muslim way of life. Renounce your hypocrisy. Embrace the true Lord, and attain salvation. || 1 ||
The man-eaters say their prayers. Those who wield the knife wear the sacred thread around their necks. In their homes, the Brahmins sound the conch. They too have the same taste. False is their capital, and false is their trade. Speaking falsehood, they take their food. The home of modesty and Religion is far from them. O Nanak, they are totally permeated with falsehood. The sacred marks are on their foreheads, and the saffron loin-cloths are around their waists; in their hands they hold the knives - they are the butchers of the world! Wearing blue robes, they seek the approval of the Muslim rulers. Accepting bread from the Muslim rulers, they still worship the [Hindu] Puraanas. They eat the meat of the goats, killed after the Muslim prayers are read over them, but they do not allow anyone else to enter their kitchen areas. They draw lines around them, plastering the ground with cow-dung. The false come and sit within them. They cry out, "Do not touch our food, or it will be polluted!" But with their polluted bodies, they commit evil deeds. With filthy minds, they try to cleanse their mouths. Says Nanak, meditate on the True Lord. If you are pure, you will obtain the True Lord. || 2 ||
Raag Gujri, Bhagat Ravidas, Aang. 525, SGGS
"The calf hath spoiled milk in the cows udder by tasting it; The bumblebee hath spoiled the flowers, and the fish the water. || 1 ||
My mother, where shall I find anything to offer in Gods worship? I cannot perform Gods adoration and worship according to Hindu rites || 1 || Pause ||
Rag B
hairo, M. 5, Aang. 1136, SGGS:
ONE UNIVERSAL CREATOR GOD. OBTAINED BY THE GRACE OF THE TRUE GURU:
Setting aside all other days, it is said that the Lord was born on the eighth lunar day. || 1 ||
Deluded and confused by doubt, the mortal practices falsehood. The Lord is beyond birth and death. || 1 || Pause ||
You prepare sweet treats and feed them to your stone god. God is not born, and He does not die, you foolish, faithless cynic! || 2 ||
You sing lullabies to your stone god - this is the source of all your mistakes. Let that mouth be burnt, which says that our Lord and Master is subject to birth. || 3 ||
He is not born, and He does not die; He does not come and go in reincarnation. The God of Nanak is pervading and permeating everywhere. || 4 || 1 ||
Savaiya, M. 10, Aang.254, Dasam Granth:
Since I have clung to thy feet, never have I reckoned any other deity.
(Incarnations like) Ram and Rahim, (and scriptures like) Puranas and the Quran, preach various creeeds, but I do not believe in any one.
All the Smritis, Shastras, and Vedas preach various ways (to meet the Lord), but I have acknowledged none.
O Timeless One, with Sword in Thy Hand! Its by Thy Grace, and not my endeavor, that I have described Thy Glory.
Raag Kalyan, Shabad Hazare,M. 10, Aang. 710, Dasam Granth:
Do not worship any one other than the Creator. Regard God, who was from the beginning unborn, invincible and indestructible, as the supreme being. ||1|| Pause ||
What does it matter if Vishnu came into the world and killed the demons? By showing his wiles to people, he exhorted them to call him God. How can he (Vishnu) be called God, the Destroyer, the Creator, the Omnipotent, the Eternal? He (Vishnu) could not save himself from the blow of the sword of death. || 2 ||
O fool, listen, how can he, who himself
is sunk in the ocean of the world, save you? You can escape from the noose of Death only if you seek the refuge of the One who existed before the world came into being. || 3 || 1 ||
Raag Bilaaval, Shabad Hazare, M. 10, Dasam Granth, Aang. 711.
Why should God appear in human form? The Sidds have failed to see him anywhere, in spite of their meditations. . || 1 || Pause ||
(Ancient Indian sages) Narad, Bias, Prasur and Dhru have sincerely meditated on God without avail. The Vedas and Puranas have failed and given up their effort for realizing him. || 1 ||
Raag Gauri. Bhagat Kabir, Aang. 324-25, SGGS
While dwelling in the womb man hath not family or caste; All men have sprung from the same seed of Brahm. || 1 ||
Say, O Pandit, since when hast thou been a Brahman? Waste not thy life in calling thyself a Brahman. || 1 || Pause ||
If thou art a Brahman born of Brahmani mother, why hast thou not come some other way? || 2 ||
How art thou a Brahman and I a low caste? How am I of blood and you of milk? || 3 ||
Says Kabeer, one who contemplates God, is the true Brahmin among us. || 4 || 7 ||
Last quote is my own favourite. There is nothing wrong with Brahmins... REAL Brahmins. If 'Pundit ji' is one of the REAL ones then much respect to him :lol:
Many many hindus are so very kind-hearted and good-spirited.
More of these tend to be from castes other than Brahmins who unfortunately vehemently opposed the sikhia of Bhagati movement in North India. This movement was embraced by Guru Nanak Dev ji and exists in SGGS ji. As stated in Guruji for centuries Brahmins did not allow people of other castes to attend their man
dirs or pray- this continues today with only a few opening up their mandirs due to lack of funding from sangat.
Sikhs should NOT hate hindus as do not forget the bhagats of the bhagati movement like Kabir ji, Dhanna Ji, Pipa Ji, Bhaini Ji, etc. did not follow a practice of what centuries later would be called Gurmat yet they merged with Akal Purakh perfectly.
Peace
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http://www.SikhLionz.com/saynotounesco.htm
i agree Dr Rai is doing a great job,
the heck will indian government gain control otherwise what right will any of us have to call ourselves sikhs while watching Sri Darbar Sahib fall into the hands of the brahmins that have tried for hundreds of years to silence the voice of the Gurus?
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you want to make a company listen- hit them where it hurts- in the pocket...
jam up their bookings lines with calls about this
Menzies Hotels PLC, Bakum House, Etwall Road, Mickleover, Derbyshire, DE3 0DL
Central Booking Office - 0870 600 3013
Menzies Hotels Administration - 0870 242 3100
http://www.bookmenzies.com/book-east-londo...nceregent.shtml
since you're sitting at your computer pop an email to:
info@menzies-hotels.co.uk
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too true
socialist parties often know they are guarenteed the sikh vote and so do nothing for the sikhs. However in closely contested areas with swing voters all the major parties offer the area's people more and more to fight for each vote. In the uk; all the areas where sikhs centralise to are socialist heartlands and thus are ignored by all parties. However if sikhs acted more like swing voters they would be in a position to bargain for better rights and better treatment.
Sikhs have put so much into the thriving success of the west economically and yet are completely ignored politically
THIS HAS TO STOP
i beg all sikhs to swing vote in their areas to scare the hell out of the major parties to make them sit up and take notice that sikhs are No lapdogs of any 1 party. Whichever party offers the sikhs better- go that way and hold them to their promises by stating in punjabi newspapers how they broke their election promises.
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deep singha respect !
finished my economics degree with flying ahunkaari colours and am doing msc business now
fave subject was always physics as i am a logical person however i was always interested in finding out how selfishness makes the world go round and trying to find a cure for this
oh yeah... Guruji
well that's me done
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my nana has always told me to ask for naam & tandrosthi as you need both. Naam for your soul to develop & tandrosthi as Bhagat Dhanna ji explains in Aarti that if we don't have the bare minimums to live such as food, water, shelter, etc. then doing simran will be adversely affected as we must give our physical form priority over our soul in that case
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could always wear a sikh badge or those chands some people have on their dastaars or go all out with teers and shastars in dastaar
so long as it isn't a mundi dastaar then all styles are equally good and so it's really about what you're going to do whilst wearing them.
i know one singh who always wears a cyan coloured dastaar with stripes- i respect him because believe me people can ALWAYS see him arrive- even through walls :lol:
If you run about and do physically things then wear the round dastaar you wear and the pointy dastaar when wearing formal clothes like a suit
am i sounding some sort of fashion guy
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there will be a khalistan as there is no future for sikhi in a country that still today does not even recognise that it as a religion exists; despite the millions of people as evidence.
just like before sant bhindranwale came along we had the government doing all it could to make life unliveable for the sikh masses. this was just like pouring gasoline over punjab so all it would take was a spark... similarly today they continue to deny basic human rights to sikhs and make life difficult for any sikh who considers themself as following Gurus distinct from Brahminvaad.
Look back at history... when any government continues to do this they will face continued revivals of seperatists who demand either their rights be granted or they want off the ride
As Guruji taught us numbers don't matter in the fight between good and evil i'm not worried in the slightest.
Some jokers say to others why don't you go to punjab and fight for your khalistan then? i get a lot of emails of support from punjab saying we should keep up the good work in demanding human rights. as sikhs demanding human rights the case outside punjab is helping them IN punjab. Any sikh human rights activist doing their bit outside punjab is better than a dead one in punjab.
The indian go'ernment leaches are always going to be out for amritdhari blood- that'll NEVER change
has brahminvaad changed in all these thousands of years into an accepting culture?
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we gotta get them back no matter what...
to think some CBI SUDHAYEE has is sitting their with arguably some of the most important texts for our religion, culture, community, ethnic group and nation.
We need to get groups like Amnesty back into Punjab NOW
We need to pressurise manmohan 2 return those texts
:lol:
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Peace.
This baba just like all the others will not want a slap on the face as he leaves Gurughar so just like darshan dasi and all the others will be respectful in the Gurughar (also due to the fact that he is vulnerable there too)
i was merely pointing out that they only go to Gurdwarae to advertise their cult.
Pheena you are correct; one should not blame the "baba" for trying but the committee for accepting them.
i know members of committees in these Gurdwarae and all of them say the same thing... these type of "babae" only tend to get given stage time in small Gurughar with small sangat. Thus less sangat will protest and basic economics means they will gain from the extra people such as chelae and supporters coming into Gurughar... almost like renting the place out for the day. These babae only get allowed into small Gurughar as i spoke to some of the bigger Gurdwarae committees who said no way would their sangat let them get away with it. Also, smaller Gurughar have fewer sewadaars. It is true to say that quite often there are few committee members to make decisions quicker and often the trustees are not even sikhs- not going to name and shame but lets just say it is very common.
TO EVERYONE: I'd reccommend you all find out who are the committee members of your local Gurdwarae and who are the trustees; you might be in for a surprise. Make sure the youth have a voice
Peace.
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None of you have actually used AMD that much thats why you don't like it that much. I am a proud owner of AMD for the past 3 years.... Started off with 900mhz and went up to AMD 1800+ XP processor... Did everything from editing audios, videos, from making dvds and everything. Never had any problem. I duno why you people are crazy about intel so much. Its same performance for most of the programs. Intel is just over priced and you can get the same job done with amd.
amd :lol:
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baba sangh gurdwara has already played host to him
Pheena penji as i said already "the inherent openness and innocence of gursikhs is always going to be seen as an exploitable weakness by anti-panthic forces"- that said there is a difference between being innocent which a sikh should be to being ignorant which one shouldn't.
I have had more dealings with anti-panthic "babae" than most due to the fact that i mix in wider circles. Personally from what i've learnt and experienced these people who come to Gurdwarae claiming to be yogpursh, etc. all over their posters which they distribute to the local sikh sangat are there for 1 reason only. Are you telling me Darshan Dasia and other babae did not gain sangat throught their many appearances at Gurdwarae and sikh events. Darshan dasi did not even have to badmouth Guruji at these events because he knew his very presence was an advertisement for their cult. Now, this Archarya Maha Mandleshwar Yugpursh Swami Parma Nand has a cult just like many other "babae": Are you telling me that in doing his gig on stage at Gurughar that gaining cultists or chelae is no part of his intention?
if so i hang my hands up and bow to the ignorance of the effects of such "babae" on the panth. Point is if sangat wanted to visit him they'd go visit him but they have chosen to visit Gurughar. Even Gurughar cannot be a place where gurmat is being promoted?
Have all the kirtanis in the world run out that we need to give bookings to these 'maha yugpursh swamis'?
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Yes that's him
Gurughar is open to all but i believe stage time should only be given to those openly promoting Gurmat. It's clear the only reason this swami is going to be there is to gain chelae.
This is the same way that fake babae get chelae- even if they speak nice and only spend stage time promoting praying to God; their very presence there is an advertisement for their own group or sect. You know once they leave the stage with extra chelae they will then lead them off Guru's path and onto their own. The same tactics have been used by darshandasi - continually turning up at Gurughars and sikh events in the past.
I believe committees should be more careful in choosing who to give stage time as it sends out false signals to the sangat.
I know i should not but sometimes i believe the inherent openness and innocence of gursikhs is always going to be seen as an exploitable weakness by anti-panthic forces.
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i know some of his chelae will be reading this-
stopsingh2 if any of his chelae even attempt to stop awaze qaum doing anything they know what a monstrous-sized punga they would be starting...
trust me they wouldn't dare
that would be playing with fire
beasides they'd probably bump into me on the way
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Gurdwara Nanaksar
Old Methodist Church
Waterloo Road
Smethwick
Birmingham
B66 4JS
Tel: 0121 558 9048
another info contact- daljit singh 'nirmala' 01215542269 (+441215542269) 07958614707 (+447958614707)
Gurdwara Nanaksar committee has decided in their infinite wisdom to play host to "Archarya Maha Mandleshwar Yugpursh Swami Parma Nand Ji" on monday 27th september and tuesday 28th september 7:45-8:45pm. He could do beadbi of SGGS ji just by saying his name! Only Guruji is Yogpursh. All of this "maha swami"s posters state he will be doing "Parvachan" at the Gurdwara.
A lot of sangat has contacted them asking them to reconsider but it appears to be going ahead.
I have a poster but is slightly too big to attach to the post; who should i forward it to?
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just learnt something from singhstah's signature:
"O, Kabir! Never bloat with pride nor laugh at another’s misery. Who knows what thy own life may have in store for you yet."
Bhagat Kabir Ji rules!0 -
in the uk since labour abandoned its traditional socialist roots and became 'new labour' i've seen a LOT of sikhs leave the party to support the lib dems
can't blame them
what has tony blair or the cabinet done for the sikhs apart from the odd letter on vaisakhi or around election time?
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whoopsy-daisy
i should have used the word 'weapon' not 'shastar' earlier in referring to my mum's chuppul
pardon my language
still... it does not take away from it's power-
i'm sure most of us feel they would rather face any weapon on earth than a slap from one's mother because you know you done something PROPER bad to get it
fortunately i'm a good little mummy's boy so i'm ok
:lol: ))))
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Rape everywhere, everyday
in WHAT'S HAPPENING?
Posted
They alone are saved, whom the All-powerful, Infinite Lord protects. Aang 50 SGGS ji
Praise that Lord who protects you, inside your home, and outside as well. Aang 83 SGGS ji