roopraj

A twist to the topic.

I see where your coming from roopraj, but the level of truth and lying in a person is always there somewhere (though I may be wrong). What I interpret from you is, 'both the truth and liars will end up hurting people' so how can we prevent it?? It's a tough cookie to crack. Like others have previously said, talk as much as you need to, no need to give extra information, etc.

Another thing is you would always find Many honest people do hide the truth, they don't show it off. On the same note Liars also hide the truth to keep them safe. You said:

Results depend more on other people, you are not responsible for that. But if someone is close and you feel responsible for others' problems too then deal with it. You can help other people in their problems instead of walking away.

After I read this, would you mind giving a solution to this following situation? (everyones welcome to give solutions )

So there's another situation where one family member tends to be hating almost every single piece of success you go through, yet you still want to share them the happiness and 'Truth' because you care for them. Yet they take advantage of it, and make you feel bad in such ways, it becomes emotionally difficult to see your own success, make's you feel low. Of course the general way is to move away from them, but what if the circumstances are limited? should we still keep lying to them? knowing the fact it's going to be at your loss......

do let me know if you need more info on the situation if you start to find it confusing.....

I believe there are three stages a person go thru

First- Intentions. What you really want to do.

Second- your action, communicating by lieing or truthfully or by anyother way.

Third - Results longterm and shorterm (expected or unexpected)

I agree with this, although it can go both ways.

Many people try to teach that speaking truth is always right thing and lieing is always bad. But it doesnot make sense to me.

Similar situations I have heard of such as:

People want others to tell them the truth, but the 'wanter' still wants to lie to protect the truth. why? because by not telling the truth, they can understand that person and use manipulative lie's to convince the person that they are true. Which is 100% wrong. It's hard to trust anyone on that note.

I think your overall message is pure though, makes sence.

I forgot to tell you one thing before. I don't want to give you any solution for your problems for many reasons.

My solution won't work for other. Don't try to cling to other peoples' solution. Those solutions will mislead you.

Problem that people are jealous has nothing to do with lying or telling truth. Whatever you will say(truth or lie) your problem will be there. What I can get from this situation is that person said truth and had bad results then he lied and short-term results were not bad.

Actual problem is jealousy, your truth or lie will not eliminate jealousy. Jealousy will be there weather you will see it on front or not.

So do you want to end hate and jealousy or you just don't want to see it?

We only have your side of story. Most of the time there are two or more sides of story depending on number of people involved. People like to play blame game. Person A will blame person B and Person B will blame Person A. If instead of thinking about others' problems a person can think about his/her problem then he/she can find solution. This is general what I did many times. I don't know how true is that for the situation you gave us. There are few things that I do not understand in your situation.

I am not giving you any answer, I am just giving you company to look in these problems deeply.

Some people have fear of spiders and some fear death, crossing roads, bugs, failure. Sometimes one person is scared of crossing road and other is comfortable with that. There is no one thing in world that every person has feared of. Fear is not about things or situations, it is about elusion.

If there is a situation or something in front of person then that person can either face it or can try to escape. If that person will try to escape then that situation/object will become fearing to him. If he will decide to understand and face then he will be more energetic to deal with it.

You didn't run away from something because it feared. It feared because you ran away from it. Everything you have feared of is thing you didn't understand. Once you will take a moment to face and understand situation then there won't be any fear and you will be more energetic.

People have tendency to escape from situations and those situations will become fearing to them until they understand and face it.

So, I want to talk about the truth. Talking to people in a general conversation is one of many way to understand what people/sangat are like. I've had a question on my mind for a while now, how much truth should we expose to people/sangat? by sangat/people I mean all sorts, that includes amritdharis, sehejdharis, atheists, other backgrounds and faiths.......people you know for a long time, good friends, bad friends, etc

For me, I personally think giving out more truth to anyone pretty much get's you suffer more consequences in the future. And the more truth I talk to people the more problems I end up getting.

I'm sick and tired of lying my way through life, just to hide the truth, but then I understand by hiding the truth saves alot of people........so I'm in deep turmoil. It's like people want to take advantage of you just so they can shine....

All opinions are welcome

In society there are two kinds of people.

Bad People (Liars) - People who lie to other, spread rumors, make false statements to hurt other people

Good people (Honest) - People who speak truth to hurt others. May be you heard these common phrases, "main taan sachiyan sunaunda haan".

Common in both is that they enjoy hurting other people.

Diffrence in both is that

Liars know the truth but they lie to others

Honest people are honest to others but doesnot know the truth that they are hurting others and covering it (by saying guru told us to be honest and we are not responsible if it hurt others, we have to speak truth)

I dont think it is right to judge people depending on weather he/she is lieing or speaking truth.

I believe there are three stages a person go thru

First- Intentions. What you really want to do.

Second- your action, communicating by lieing or truthfully or by anyother way.

Third - Results longterm and shorterm (expected or unexpected)

If someone got hurt

what was your intentions?

Was you able to communicate properly?

You are fully responsible for these two parts.

Results depend more on other people, you are not responsible for that. But if someone is close and you feel responsible for others' problems too then deal with it. You can help other people in their problems instead of walking away.

Many people try to teach that speaking truth is always right thing and lieing is always bad. But it doesnot make sense to me.

Why you are speaking truth or why are you lieing is important.

I would like to ask few questions. Why you want to keep faith in God? What is your main purpose of being faithful?

"How do we find something when we don't even know what it is?"

"Why is it our purpose to find God. Why cannot God and I just both exist...why must we find each other."

Your purpose is not to find God. Your purpose is to know yourself. In other words purpose of someone's life is to live life in completeness.

To live life in completeness you should know yourself. Everyone who been on purpose of knowing himself found God in himself. You will find God in yourself but finding God is not primary goal.

"So why does God exist"

I don't know answer for this one.

Agreed - the hooligans are complete idiots there is nothing in Guru Nanak or Ravidass Ji's teachings to say riot & loot Punjab when someone is killed.

FYI - people do not want to be "low-caste" they are labelled with it, we, as low caste Sikhs have been discriminated against since Sri Guru Gobind Singh JI Maharaj left this world. If I had my way I wouldnt have a label I wouldnt be of Chamar background. The below is my answer to someone who asked me the same question as you have:

"" People from low castes who are Sikhs and have been for generations & generations are told that we are not real Sikhs because we are of Chamar or Dalit background.... But you have people saying they are Jat Sikh or Ramgarhia Sikh. Ravidassi Sikh is a beautiful reference, taking the name of Ravidass Ji Maharaj who was from a low family. Why should people like you say we are not Sikhs - why should we be Chamar Sikhs?? Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj's Hukam was for the Khalsa to be one regardless of caste - oppression is the reason why some low-caste people prefer to be Hindu, some Ravidassia & some like me who will always stay behind the Sikh banner regardless.""

...Waheguru...Waheguru...Waheguru...

Watch these two videos

This video starting after 7:10

this video complete

There are many evidences that followers were touching his feet in presence of SGGS. This was the main problem many sikh group had with dera.

lok kehnde ne ke SGGS di hazoori wich kise nu matha tekna thik nahi maniya janda. Main briefy sikh reht maryada check kiti hai. SGGS di hazoori wich kise nu matha tekan bare kuchh nahi likhiya hoeya.

jis tarah je gurudware wich gurbani (kirtan, padh ya katha) chal rahi hove ate koi apnian gallan kari jave. eh bhi bura lagda hai.

There are no justification about his death.

I believe that attack was previously planned, it has nothing to do with anything happening in Gurudwara at that day. But it is just my believe and I can be completely wrong.

There are many evidences that ramanand was allowing people to touch his feet in presence of SGGS. This is not in sikh reht marayada par keha janda hai ke kisse hor nu matha tekna changa nahi lagda.

Je koi sikh rehat marayda nahi follow karda tan sikh panth usde against action le sakda hai. par kuj lokkan ne khud hi action leya which is another violation of sikh reht marayada. Insulting sikh panth they decided to take action themselve.

baad wich dera followers ne jo punjab wich nuksaan kita oh bohut galat si. kise punjab de aam insaan da koi roll nahi si.

Ik hor video hai Sant Singh Maskeen ji di.

Start wich hi Basu Sant Singh Maskeen nu matha tekda hai.

Sant Singh Maskeen Ji had been the recipient of the highest honour "Panth Ratan".

Question is how it would be decided and who will decide ki kis nu ki punishment deni hai?