EKONAM

Thanks to the admin for the recent addition on keertan.net!

The video of Bhai Mohinder Singh SDO is just NUTS!

please add more!

:wub:

the best video , kirtan, and every thing else....great man ,,,,,and his kirtan is out of this world never heard this ...i have not heard anybody do great sensible kirtan

www.sabadvartara.org check it out.

great check them all out and listen very carefully

i will NOT discuss bhai gurdass . why- because as much as you beleave in him, our GURU DO-NOT.they did not include any of his vaars or his so called bani in the guru granth, for a reason, because it is fake....i will not discuss his so called bani ..it is very low leveled.

1) the first line is on page 1087 line 14 by guru nanak

2) is in the <banned word filter activated> di vaar ( that should not be to hard to find)

3)this one is on page 967 on the last line.

4) <banned word filter activated> di vaar

5)this one is on page 305 on line 16.

if you care to discuss gurbani ONLY i will too.........other wise stop leading the poor sangth the wrong way. with you bhamun vaad.

the person who wrote this pWc isMG AMimRq jo dyvYN qW ko isr Dr Ck pun lyvY ] pun iml pWco rihq jo BwKY qW ko mn myN idRV kr rwKY

this is exactly what i mean..THIS IS NOT IN THE GURU GRANTH JI. it is NOT GURU MAATH it is a persons mun maath.

amrit is collected inside a persons body with naam abbass(nam japna)

pevoo phool kanda dar is guru maat....because only the five through a ceramony baptise you.....they give you phool NOT amrit.

one line to explane this is in the shabad poota maata ki asees nimk na vissro tum ko har har sada pajo jagdiss ....after you do this then in this shabad you will get AMRIT, and then and only then you will be deathless.,(your body will die but your sole will live ).

i have only one thing to say but i can give you thousands of examples from the gurbani , BUT it seems that you give me your own bamun (hindu) vaad ..

1) guru nanak says in his shabad....boly boly firy(female) maa firee....he does not say boly boly maa fraa(male)...

2) so koo mun tha akeea jith jumaa rajaan (<banned word filter activated> di //)

3)maata kee-ve naak jaan( noticed the jaan should as a common word for males and females)

4) if it says guru sikha munya vady a ( does this mean female can't receive these vadya)

5) guru sat gur ka sikh jo akavay so pal-ke uttaa ( does this mean it does not apply to a female...wrong she too has to rise early to do nam jap)

i hope these are enough example of how the gurus treated male and females equal...in respect.

i agree the dffrecence in the two are only pysicial ..but the actucal think MUN is the thing that goes up to heven or hell

bhai gurdass or any other so called bani is not in the guru granth so please don't quote from there.

Present the whole shabads and tell us on which ang sung it is on. Presenting tuks is not the correct way. Bahi Gurdas ji's vaar are much important here. But stick to presenting Gurbani in the correct form first and then we can discuss.

i have only one thing to say but i can give you thousands of examples from the gurbani , BUT it seems that you give me your own bamun (hindu) vaad ..

1) guru nanak says in his shabad....boly boly firy(female) maa firee....he does not say boly boly maa fraa(male)...

2) so koo mun tha akeea jith jumaa rajaan (<banned word filter activated> di //)

3)maata kee-ve naak jaan( noticed the jaan should as a common word for males and females)

4) if it says guru sikha munya vady a ( does this mean female can't receive these vadya)

5) guru sat gur ka sikh jo akavay so pal-ke uttaa ( does this mean it does not apply to a female...wrong she too has to rise early to do nam jap)

i hope these are enough example of how the gurus treated male and females equal...in respect.

i agree the dffrecence in the two are only pysicial ..but the actucal think MUN is the thing that goes up to heven or hell

bhai gurdass or any other so called bani is not in the guru granth so please don't quote from there.

pWc isMG AMimRq jo dyvYN qW ko isr Dr Ck pun lyvY ] pun iml pWco rihq jo BwKY qW ko mn myN idRV kr rwKY ]

paa(n)ch si(n)gh a(n)mrith jo dhaevai(n) thaa(n) ko sir dhhar shhak pun laevai ||apun mil paa(n)cho rehith

jo bhaakhai thaa(n) ko man mae(n) dhrirr kar raakhai ||

Offer you head and take the Amrit prepared by five Singhs. The code of conduct (Rehat), which they bless you with, should be enshrined in one's heart.

Krith Bilaas Paathshahee Dasvee

Its not an issue of equlity, Akaal Purakh hasnt made us equal, men and women are physically,emotionaly, physologicaly different. Man cant give birth, so how is he equal to a women. Theres a difference between eqauailty and respect.

Annual Akhand Keertan Smaagam

0:00 AM to 0:00 AM

Varius Gurooduaaraa Saahebs across Delhi

Sep. 21 (Monday)

Arambh Sree Akhand Paath Sahib: 7:30am (Khalsa School, Dev Nagar)

Sep. 23 (Wednesday):

Bhog Sree Akhand Paath Sahib: 7am (Khalsa School, Dev Nagar)

Aasaa dee Vaar Keertan: 7am - Noon (Khalsa School, Dev Nagar)

Akhand Keertan: 7pm - 9:30pm (G. Singh Sabha, Karol Bagh)

Sep. 24 (Thursday):

Aasaa dee Vaar Keertan: 5am - Noon (G. Sees Ganj Sahib Jee)

Akhand Keertan: 7pm - 9:30pm (G. Mata Sundar Kaur Jee)

Sep. 25 (Friday):

Aasaa dee Vaar Keertan: 5am - Noon (G. Nanak Piaaou Sahib Jee)

Akhand Keertan: 7pm - 9:30pm (G. Moti Bagh Sahib Jee)

Sep. 26 (Saturday):

Aasaa dee Vaar Keertan: 5am - Noon (G. Bangla Sahib Jee)

Akhand Keertan: 7pm - 9:30pm (G. Bangla Sahib Jee)

Sep. 27 (Sunday):

Aasaa dee Vaar Keertan: 5am - Noon (G. Bangla Sahib Jee)

Sep. 27-28:

Raensabaayee Keertan: 7pm - 5am (G. Rakaab Ganj Sahib Jee)

Ammrit Sanchaar: 8pm and onwards (G. Rakaab Ganj Sahib Jee)

Broadcast link : http://akj.org/multi...dcast/live2.asx

very nice ...the most important part nam japna..liked it very much.

the so called "stuff" is all bamun vad....... read the asa di // ......what bamun used to do is these "agar vas ba " they used these incents to make there meals, there mundars , and where they sat to eat by swinging them around them selfs...

nonthing but bamun vad....guru gobind say" jab e ga biprun ki reet ma na karo inn ki preet"

iv heard that about 30 or 40 ingredients go into the stuff that you put onto the coal in gurdwaras that make the smoke/ dhoof.

what are they?? thanks

usually when somebody has no answers by the way of the guru bani NOT what people have been thought to have been believed they will cut you off like the last person.....did to me instead of understanding,

and NO i do not belong to any group just a sikh that tries to go with the gurbani, your beleaves are what sikh have been doing , but mine are from the gurbani, you give no quotes from the gurbani , only your mun-mat mind , you go on history when the only true history is the gurbanis history....any way it is said "gur ki karni ka-haa dhao gur keha sa kar kamavo" so that is why it is not improtant of what gurus DID but only DO what they have said in the gurbani..

bhol chok maff

this reply is to people who say women should not be in pang pyara ...." guru nanks shabad says boli boli ma FERI" he is been a female in this shabad.. not as a male so please understand the gurbani first.

we are all "jev-is-teera" females looking for the "akal pruk" pruk means male ....and in the gurbani there is no "janny" but only "jan" eg. jo jan guru ki kara sava....means male or female.

sikh is also a common word used in the gurbani for male and female...eg.. guru sate guru a jo sikh akaae " ...can mean a women or a man...

let me rewrite this ....guru ji DID NOT DO ANYTHING to be head a person in a tent ...this is the impossible thing ...and he him self writes "rith sith avra sath" and rith sith thrig kara matt" meaning anybody who shows rithya sithya is in disgrace, so if he writes this and then he does the same thing it will be lies of what he writes.....even nam dev when the "maca" was turned , in his bani he writes "hum ra kia kasho na kara ram so hoo ha" because all the gurus new the bani, all the bagth bani is the chips of the same block feathers of the same bird,....so reading the bani and understanding it the way the guru sames are two different things ...many preach what has been said by others does that mean it is correct....many read the gurbani the way guru say....first "ram ram bhol kogh ta vad bagi" first do the simran for many years , then he will send you the actual "gaan" which is going to be different from others .

this happened with all he gurus and bagths, people told guru nanak he was "btala" kohe akaa baatala kohi, akaa buthna, kohi athame"

so dont just say what other have ....stop and think about it... read the guru bani.....but first nam jap waheguruuuuuuuuuuu waheguruuuuu waheguruuuuuuuu.

i found this site very interesting and not many have said what this man has ....not many can digest it BUT IT IS THE TRUTH......STOP AND THING OF WHAT IS REALITY

http://www.sabadvartara.org/ check it out .

GuruMat is something we cannot fully understand because its guru's knowledge. We can only try to follow to the best of our abilities.

So if you can't understand Gurmat then how do you know women are allowed or not allowed in the Punj Pyare. Just below you base your conclusion on knowing Gurmat. You can't say with one tongue we don't know Gurmat and then with the same tongue say I do know Gurmat because it suits your mindset.

If it's about religious equality then you should have no problem accepting the Punj Pyare are all men. The religious equality was given to men and women when Guru Sahib said I need one head. I wish one women would have stood up and given her head, but it's not the case and we are changing Gurmat by adding a women in the Punj Pyare.

yes i also have no problem with two , three, four or all five panj being women.

See here your claiming to know Gurmat. So which is it you don't know or know?

In your second line you say, Guru ji gave religious equality to men and women under the condition that they should answer Guruji's call. How can one decide that, it was a one time offer. How can we say that by not standing up that day women sealed their fate and can not be part of panj. Sikhi is not about eternal damnation, its about forgiveness.

Exactly it was one time. But the call was repeated five times and not one women stood up. We don't say anything just following Gurmat, which some have a tough time accepting. That was the moment given to both genders and we can't change the facts. Also you ignore the facts that Singh is given to man and Kaur is given to the women. By changing it you are standing up as and claiming to be Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji.

If it's about religious eqality then don't forget the fact Guru Sahib took the form as man not once but TEN times. I could just hear the excuses coming now. BUT BUT, then society wouldn't accept Women as leader. If that's the best you got then Guru Nanak Dev ji would never have challenged and detroyed the caste system. Guru Nanak Dev ji would never have slepted with his feet toward the Kaaba. Look at history on how it took place not on fairy tales.

If it's about religious equality then also don't forget only women can give birth. Where is the equality here. You might say it's not religious, but Sikhi is a way of life. Everything is considered and nothing is left out.

I only know for a fact that you are confusing god with Guru. None of the Guru ji's considered themselves permashar (God). To say Guru ji took 10 forms is to say Gurus were Waheguru. Guru Nanak dev ji and Guru Gobind singh jee were sent where as the rest of the Guru ji's achieved Brahm gyan which is possible by following Guru ji's teachings.

Give me the attributes that separate the two. Go back to the Mool Mantar. Does this not come in Gurbani, the Lord himself to the fifth form. Have fun trying to separate the True Guru and The Lord.

If all Guru ji's took form as man then Guru Amardas jee would not have been given Guru Gaddi at the age of 95 years old.

Being clever here, are we!!!!!LOL Does it matter what age a male is, he's still male.

When i am talking about religious equality i am not talking about Guru Nanak dev ji putting his feet toward mecca kabba. I am talking about giving men and women same rights in sikhi to practise sikhi. Women give birth because its a wonderful thing , from your usage and others who have been using this argument , it sounds like giving birth is a defect.

The same rights is given. And you can't ignore the fact of 1699. What are women not given by the True Guru. I know giving birth is a wonderful thing that's why I am complaining why male wasn't given the same right. Giving birth is very much apart of Sikhi and yet males cannot perform this wonderful act. Where is the eqaulity here. Now do you get it.

Quote

Is anyone here prepared to say that Guru ji did not give women same religious rights as men?

Is anyone here prepared to say that Guru Sahib would go against Gurmat to satisfiy somes minds. And the above answers the so called religous rights.

Well i am prepared to say it because Gurmat is Guru's mat and who else would have gone for or against it but the Guru. So yes, Guru ji gave equal religious rights to men and women.

Guru Sahib wouldn't have gone against his mat!!! Tell me one time Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji has gone against his mat. Look all you like, you won't find it and it shows in the above you are claiming to know Gurmat now, but when it suits you then you say I don't know. And nice on playing Guru Sahib here. Can I add you did a terrible job and called Guru Sahib an hypocrite.

Here I already answered this so just going to copy and paste. Guru Nanak Dev ji came and said the caste system is no longer. Sikh were well aware of this already. Hence Langar was started where every man and women sat at an equal level regardless of caste. Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji completed the message. So when the Punj Pyare stood up they didn't have a caste. They surely had a gender and even Guru Sahib distingished between gender because he gave Singh to the man and Kaur to the woman.

Ok let me agree with you for a second but then why dont we have a woman mixing patases in amrit? Does this mean, Amrit Ceromany has not been carried out the correct way for centuries?

I have already answered this so again. I am going to copy and paste. This is at the heart of the debate and you are trying everything to ignore it. Then this should be addressed by the Panth, but not used against the Khalsa to get your thinking approved. If this is a wrong doing then as an admin you have more authority than me and use this authority to speak with the appropriate authority. I addressed all your comments, but your unable to address the point of Singh given to man and Kaur given to woman. Why is that? If your not able to address this one simple point then maybe someone else can.

Is it apart of the Amrit Sanskar to kill a Muslim and Brhmans. You are speak about to isolated events and then trying to compare them. You took and apple and said look guys it's an orange and then took an orange said look guys it's a apple.

No i am saying that if you were given an apple and an orange and you ate the orange and covered the apple with orange skin. The apple would still be the apple. Same way you cannot deny women their right to practise in such an important and uplifting Sikh ceromany because you think that by including women it would some how turn the apple into an orange.

Again, avoiding the point that abolishes your above statement. Singh given to the man and Kaur given to the woman. Guru Sahib distinguished from man and woman here then why are you scared to admit and accept Guru Sahib decision.

Members who are for and against kaurs in panj piyares keep arguing about gender equality. I dont think gender equality should be an issue here. For me this topic is about religious equality.

by religious equality do you mean the equality to carry out every religious aspect of sikhi out in physical form? cos you know how many women there was in Dal Panth dont you?

Guru Ji gave amrit in 1699. he did joti jot in 1708. during this 9 years did Guru Ji do any more sanchars? yes. how many of them involved women?

If Guru ji wanted to have bibian in 5 pyare he had 9 years to establish this, but the fact is that even during Guru ji times, only men did amrit sewa. This was the way Guru Ji must have wanted it, or otherwise Guru Ji would have said so, dontcha think?

Or did Guru Ji leave Sikhi incomplete? For Sikhs who think they know it all to chat drivel 300 years later? like how some people say for 2 laavs, the man must follow the woman.

Make your minds up people. Either follow Guru's way or your own.

I forgot about that point Sant ji made aswell. When the Anand Karaj take place why is the male in front for the full four laava. Guru ji would have put women infront for the first two or last two or alternate. But NO Guru Sahib put the male infront. ISn't this religious ineqaulity. Where the male gets to lead and not the female.

And why is the lar handed to female and not the other way around. Again by the admins thinking, Balait da Sher ji, this is religious inequality and the Guru did it.

So let's stick to Gurmat or the Gurmat we love so much will be dissolved by the Manmukhs.

Thanks for bring that to my attention Singh.

Hey we agree on one thing here.

OOO and a concept that bites the people that say it's alright for women to be in Punj Pyare back. Say that the soul has no gender, which is true, but then you guys should be all for women being infront for Anand Karaj and females marrying females and males marrying males. But yet some of these are against Male marrying a Male.

Again if you want to fight against Gurmat then put everything on the table and we can discuss. You want one than the others are handed to you whether you like it or not.

Sat Sri Akaal jeo!

Does anybody hacve the Nihang Ardaas, in gurmukhi please? I know Freed has scanned an ardaas in from a gutka, but there are some pages missing. It would be most appreciated!

Light

Ong!

the only true ardas is the "ho siifth kari ardas " the gurbani way , the other ardas is created and made up from the "mun"

look in the gurbani and do a search the ardas is nam japna , the all mighty is inside you ,

bein molana sum koch jantha,

i am sorry to say that the ONLY rehit maryada is the gurbani, why? which one do we follow , every person or "jatha" has CREATED there own , some say kaaski is one of the five sybols , but the gurbani does not mentions these,man made five k's. the fact is in those days to protect from the enemy was a sword or small more conveintant a knife, these days they are a joke, wear a riffle or aup to dat e stane gun not some knif that will not evem come out during a fight.

last of all the guru did not ask for five heads, guru gobinds singh ji planed this very carefully the very men that WHERE baptisted by HIS father GURU tegbahader ji where the same men that came up .

after that thosands and thousands of people too the amrit "phol"

NOBODY knew that this was going to happen, i ask you DID they all bring with them the so called five k's ......come on when you go to a maala do we ever even thing to bring an umbrella,

after guru gobind singh ji Navab kapoor singh ji had kand bata over his horse neck which he carried all the time , he knew the value of phol , when ever there was anew born he got five others men or women and started the russum and gave the new born phol.

we say amrit tari , the word is used for every person who is baptized , in fact we are wrong, amrit tari applies to a very few , who have reached the spritial level and amrit varun in there body's.

First off:

b. At the place where ambrosial baptism is to be administered, the holy Guru Granth Sahib should be installed and ceremonially opened. Also present should be six committed baptised Sikhs, one of whom should sit in attendance of the Guru Granth Sahib and the other five should be there to administer the ambrosial baptism. These six may even include Sikh women. All of them must have taken bath and washed their hair

- Rehit Maryada

And secondly, although i respect baba jarnail singh ji for the amount of seva he did for the panth, he is not the guru, the guru is the guru-panth and guru-granth, and above is what the guru-panth says regarding bibiyan as panj pyare.

Fateh.

Great! so which rehat maryada is this? Please let me know.

What I want to know, for all those out there who think that only men should be Punj Pyarey, if it really is a male/female thing.. Mata Sahib Kaur put the patasey into the Amrit, so how come in every Amrit Sanchar you don't have a woman putting the patasey into the Amrit???

I think the most beautiful thing to see is a graceful powerful Sikh woman being one of the Punj Pyarey. If you say that it should be only men because you have to 'replicate' what happened in 1699, then why not get guys of the same caste as those of the original Punj Pyarey?

Guru Gobind Singh Ji did not say I want the heads of 5 Sikh men.. he said he wanted the heads of 5 Sikhs.

In Sri Guru Granth Shib Ji, we are portrayed as 'brides'. So who is male or female? In our past reincarnations, God knows what we have been... both male and female. So who is to say who is compatible or not. I don't think you are/not elgible to be in the Punj Pyarey just because you have half a chromosome more or less than the opposite sex. Please, my Guru is more open minded than this... Don't insult them.

Satnam

Harsimrren Kaur

There's only one Rehit Maryada, and thats the Panthic Rehit Maryada from Sri Akal Takht Sahib.

Fateh.

you are RIGHT women SHOULD be allowed in the ceremony to be one of the five , in the gurbani male and female are equal, the sikh that are katar "strict" or as i call them "Taliban" will not understand this and give you reasons that "when guru gobind asked for five heads (which he never did) why did'nt women get up" the guru Never did any thing to show mircles or any of the bhagts in the bani, they all say that god did it,

all baamun vaad....the real persad is for god not man made