AmritSingh0

"Don't eat, don't drink"

Use some of that common sense guys. If you eat and drink, what's the difference? In one situation you're starving while the other one you're not.

If you don't have your kirpan, it just means you're less defenceless than before, that's it. You're still able to defend others and yourself, but by the means of close combat with arms and legs.

Guru Granth Sahib ji is our Guru, which must be respected at all times. Sikhs bow to the Guru and not face their backs. God is everywhere, however, the Guru's teachings are within Guru Granth Sahib ji.

I mean sure these Sikhs were not aware at their disrespect. If someone told them, I'm sure they would've move. Mistakes do happen.

*Deleted* see forum rules and guidlines

If anyone is hurt because of the remarks said by Darshan Ragi toward Satguru Sri Guru GObind SIngh Sahib ji Maharaj

Like I said before, may be you should clarify the information you're putting forth.

If you clearly see the Kirtan he did at Rochester, he was saying "My Guru cannot be like this". This story in the Dasam Granth is portraying Guru Gobind Singh ji in such a horrible way, and all he's saying is that Guru Gobind Singh ji could never do this and these stories that are being putting under Guru Gobind Singh ji's name are false.

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March 1, 2008

Dasam Granth Bani: SikhSangat.com holds a Pro Dasam Granth stand. We believe that the Dasam Granth Sahib in its current form is the work of Guru Gobind Singh Ji. No provocative, insulting or derogatory language will be tolerated against Dasam Granth Sahib. Any topic or post questioning the authority and authenticity of the Dasam Granth will not be allowed. Not following the rule will result in Under moderation and possible ban without an issuance of warning.

Then I have no place on these forums, if the truth cannot even be spoken.

Admin Note: Post deleted and warning given and you id is under moderation. As i said before, we do not allow members either directly or indirectly cast any doubt on our religious scriptures.

Who are they? Are they not sharabi and kababi gang of ragi darsho. What status they have got in panthic matters?

Absolute zero.

Each and every Sikh is a valued member of the Sikh Panth. Each and everyone has a say in the decisions that are made (well, today this isn't the case because of corruption).

They are a bunch of uneducated thugs who want attention even at the cost of sikh traditions and scriptures.

Traditions change as time passes by. It becomes the duty of the Sikh Panth to undue any changes that have been made. Such changes will be only based by the teachings of Guru Granth Sahib ji.

Recently their main

leader spokesman editor Joginder sahni has raised his finger on Sri guru Granth sahib also.

I'm not aware of who this person is, so I'm not able to answer.

They attack Bachitra Natak because it is this Granth who make us Khalsa. They want khalsa to elope from face of this earth so

their payroll masters' wish is fulfilled.

The Khalsa are the followers of Guru Granth Sahib ji. By following Guru Granth Sahib ji and applying the Guru's teachings into one's life is what defines a Sikh, this is what defines Khalsa.

Khalsa lives on the teachings of Guru Granth Sahib ji and none else. Without Guru Granth Sahib ji, the Sikh dies, Khalsa dies.

Last time I recalled, these are the things that they preached.

Sikh rehat maryada acknowledges writings of Guru Gobind singh ji as divine.

If we were to agree with this comment, then the Sikh scholars behind the creation of the Sikh Rehat Maryada would be not be hesitant in deciding to read the entire Chaupai.

These heretics do not believe in that. So they are violating rehat maryada

Last time I checked, they do accept the Sikh Rehat Maryada. However, they do not question out any room for improvement as this Sikh Rehat Maryada is made by Sikhs, who in fact do make mistakes!

You should search this site for information about these manmukhs and their slander toward Satguru Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji Maharaj.

Last time I checked, they weren't slandering Guru Gobind Singh ji. If I remember clearly, they were just saying the Bachittar Natak cannot be the teachings of Guru Gobind Singh ji.

Perhaps you should listen to their views, before you start making false claims.

Also i'll help you out on finding more info on the fundamental elements of the Khalsa Panth

Thank you for your information, but I am aware of this.

Hey Amritsingh0, please read sukhmani sahib, guru doesn't tell us lies he helps us. Time and time again our guru tells us, have the sangat of the saintly beings, have the sangat of god-knowledged people (brahmgianis), then guruji also tells us some of us are not fortunate enough to meet these beings, that means we should increase our fortunes by doing more seva,bani etc.

The Brahmgiani is God.

ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਗਿਆਨੀ ਆਪਿ ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰੁ ॥

Breham Giaanee Aap Nirankaar ||

The God-conscious being is himself the Formless Lord.

ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਗਿਆਨੀ ਕੀ ਸੋਭਾ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਗਿਆਨੀ ਬਨੀ ॥

Breham Giaanee Kee Sobhaa Breham Giaanee Banee ||

The glory of the God-conscious being belongs to the God-conscious being alone.

ਨਾਨਕ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਗਿਆਨੀ ਸਰਬ ਕਾ ਧਨੀ ॥੮॥੮॥

Naanak Breham Giaanee Sarab Kaa Dhhanee ||8||8||

O Nanak, the God-conscious being is the Lord of all. ||8||8||

(SGGS, 274)

God, is without egotistical pride.

ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਗਿਆਨੀ ਕੈ ਨਾਹੀ ਅਭਿਮਾਨ ॥

Breham Giaanee Kai Naahee Abhimaan ||

The God-conscious being has no egotistical pride. (SGGS, 272)

By adding titles such as "Mahapurakh", "Brahmgiani", that individual is not only showing egotistical pride, but also elevating himself/herself over others.

Sikhism believes in the concept of brotherhood, the concept of all of us being brothers and sisters with God being our father.

ਤੂ ਪਿਤਾ ਸਭਿ ਬਾਰਿਕ ਥਾਰੇ ॥

Thoo Pithaa Sabh Baarik Thhaarae ||

You are our father; we are all Your children.

ਜਿਉ ਖੇਲਾਵਹਿ ਤਿਉ ਖੇਲਣਹਾਰੇ ॥

Jio Khaelaavehi Thio Khaelanehaarae ||

We play as You cause us to play.

ਉਝੜ ਮਾਰਗੁ ਸਭੁ ਤੁਮ ਹੀ ਕੀਨਾ ਚਲੈ ਨਾਹੀ ਕੋ ਵੇਪਾੜਾ ॥੪॥

Oujharr Maarag Sabh Thum Hee Keenaa Chalai Naahee Ko Vaepaarraa ||4||

The wilderness and the path are all made by You. No one can take the wrong path. ||4|| (SGGS, 1081)

No where has the Guru approved that titles such as "Sant", "Mahapurakh", "Brahmgiani" are to be added in front of names.

This is the reason why we do not see any titles such as "Sant", "Mahapurakh", "Brahmgiani" added in front of the names of past great martyrs of the Sikh religion. They just have "Bhai", "Bibi" or rarely "Baba". Here's a list:

• Bhai Lalo
  
• Bhai Mardana
  
• Bhai Satta
  
• Bhai Balwand
  
• Bhai Peepaa
  
• Bhai Mati Dass
  
• Bhai Sati Dass
  
• Bhai Dyala
  
• Bhai Jaitaa / Jeevan Singh
  
• Bhai Makhan Shah
  
• Bhai Manjh
  
• 5 pyaras (Bhai Daya Singh, Bhai Dharam Singh, Bhai Mohkam Singh, Bhai Himmat Singh, Bhai Sahib Singh)
  
• 4 Sahibzadas (Ajit Singh, Jujhar Singh, Jorawar Singh, Fateh Singh)
  
• Bhai Mani Singh
  
• Baba Deep Singh
  
• Banda Singh Bahadur
  
• Bhai Bachitter Singh
  
• Bhai Kannaeya
  
• Hari Singh Nalwa
  

Just to add "Amrit Singh" it's Sikhi, not Sikhism.

Both mean the same thing.

Sarbjit Dhunda LOL!!!!!!!

the man is a Kala Afghani. He doesn't even beleive in Jaap Sahib as Bani

Gurbani is the Guru. Guru Granth Sahib ji is the Guru of the Sikhs.

This decision was made by Guru Gobind Singh ji, the only authority to decide what is Gurbani and what is not. Guru Gobind Singh ji himself has given the status of Gurbani to only Guru Granth Sahib ji and nothing else.

Had Guru Gobind Singh put his own writings within Guru Granth Sahib ji, it would it be considered to be as Gurbani (Guru). However, this is not the case. We find that Guru Gobind Singh ji put the writings of Guru Teghbahadur ji in Guru Granth Sahib ji (now Gurbani) and not his own writings. Therefore, he did not consider his writings to be given the status of Gurbani.

We have no authority to give the status of Gurbani, only the Guru has such authority.

yet you think he holds some kind of authoritative status amongst us that we should listen to what he has to say about a subject LOL Try to back up your arguement with some real scholars/academics instead of these fake professors who have never seen the gates of a real collage. Doing a study of a 2 year course and then calling yourself a professor does not make you a real professor.

Where did I say he has some kind of authoritative status? I never forced anyone to listen to him. If you don't want to, then by all means don't.

My arguments are backed up by the words said by Prof. Sarbjit Singh Dhunda, not by his academics.

So called book worm prof with not enough wisdom to understand or even the ability to accept Dasam bani.

Wisdom is something big and does not merely come out of no where. By understanding and applying the teachings of Guru Granth Sahib ji, only is wisdom obtained.

However, with your claims, those who don't accept the Bachittar Natak to be the teachings of Guru Gobind Singh ji have no wisdom at all. Rather than attacking the individual, perhaps you should answer the questions he has put forth in that video above and other questions he has put forth about the Bachittar Natak. If you have no answers to his questions, then what can I really say?

Try reading jeevans of mahapurashs who had experiences, who actually had darshans of Sargun and nirgun swaroops of waheguru.

I believe in the concept of Sikh Brotherhood as bestowed by our Guru. Sikhism believes in equality of each individual, irrespective of how much they understand Gurbani, or how "close" they are to God. There is no concept of "Mahapurakhs", "Brahmgianis", "Sants" in Sikhism.

However, there are Sikhs out there who are very connected to Guru Granth Sahib ji and attempt to follow the teachings of the Guru to the best of their abilities. Such people should be considered as people to look up to, so that people themselves have gain the courage to also follow the teachings of the Guru as those individuals.

It also should be noted, such people who are very close to their religion are not always perfect. The Guru and God are only perfect, other than that, anyone else can make mistakes.

Sikh Soldier... sums it better than i ever could. I was once in the presence of a Gur Sikh who used to be with Sant Ji (they are well known and widley respected, but as they told us not tell people what they said dont want to mention their name... BTW the reason they said this was that they didnt want people going out and saying so and so said this was that people dont believe such things are possible). Any way they mentioned that true gursikhs .. BharmGayanis can go to suchkhand and comeback ... Bharm Gayanis such as Sant Jarnail Singh Ji Khasla Bhindranwale.

I was once told that Sant ji while asleep would go to sach kahnd and when it was time to get up they would still be there as they didnt have realisation of time back here they would be busy in seva and giyan of Great Sikhs such as Baba Deep Singh Ji and Bhai Mani Singh Ji any way some singhs started saying look at him he dont even get up to do his nit nhem any way they asked this singh to touch their toe when it was time for them to come back ... any way this is all matter of belief... you ca believe the world is flat and be adimant that all those who say the world is round is mad...

any way Bhul Chuk Maf

WJKK WJKF

Don't be so nieve, sorry to say.

No one is going to "Sachkhand" and then coming back. No great martyrs of the Sikh religion will come back to do seva for the Panth. These are all false baseless stories.

What shall happen, shall happen under God's command. No one in this world knows what will happen in the future. The Guru says:

ਹਮ ਜਾਨਿਆ ਕਛੂ ਨ ਜਾਨਹ ਆਗੈ ਜਿਉ ਹਰਿ ਰਾਖੈ ਤਿਉ ਠਾਢੇ ॥

Ham Jaaniaa Kashhoo N Jaaneh Aagai Jio Har Raakhai Thio Thaadtae ||

I know nothing, and I do not know the future; as the Lord keeps me, so do I stand.

ਹਮ ਭੂਲ ਚੂਕ ਗੁਰ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਧਾਰਹੁ ਜਨ ਨਾਨਕ ਕੁਤਰੇ ਕਾਢੇ ॥੪॥੭॥੨੧॥੫੯॥

Ham Bhool Chook Gur Kirapaa Dhhaarahu Jan Naanak Kutharae Kaadtae ||4||7||21||59||

For my failings and mistakes, O Guru, grant me Your Grace; servant Nanak is Your obedient dog. ||4||7||21||59|| (SGGS, 171)

By all means, if you feel you know more than the Guru, believe such stories!

This aspect of different opinion always comes up with acepting the Khalsa Panth as a whole from those that oppose the Khalsa Panth or don't understand what different of opinion actually means, when speaking about one religion. Opinions can vary, due to peoples knowledge and ability to understand one religion. But a person moves from having opinions into commiting blasphemy when they deny the fundamental teachings, scriptures, religious instititutions, and history of a religion and in this case Sikhi.

I agree.

For instance a person that has no Sikh backround and is just learning about Sikhi, can and will make mistakes of a heretic, but will soon realize, such things are plainly wrong and will understand the view of Sikhi as taught by the founders (Guru Sahib). Same goes for a person that was born in a Sikh backround. However the mentioned groups in the OPs post are not acting in any way that shows they are learning about Sikhi. Instead they have taken the fundamental elements of the Khalsa Panth and completely denied they even existed and then moved on to further slandering the practices with the intent to hurt the Khalsa Panth.

The Guru itself is the fundamental element of the Khalsa Panth. As far as I know the people in the above list, they preach the teachings of Guru Granth Sahib ji in a logical manner and preach that nothing shall be consider on par with Guru Granth Sahib ji.

Without the Guru, the Sikh dies, Khalsa dies.

ਜਿਉ ਪ੍ਰਾਣੀ ਜਲ ਬਿਨੁ ਹੈ ਮਰਤਾ ਤਿਉ ਸਿਖੁ ਗੁਰ ਬਿਨੁ ਮਰਿ ਜਾਈ ॥15॥

Just as the mortal dies without water, so does the Sikh die without the Guru. ||15|| (SGGS, 757)

Different of opinions only arise when a person accepts the fundamental elements of the Khalsa Panth and then has a different intrepretation of what these fundamental elements say. Hence they are speaking from the best of their knowledge and its considered an opinion on one religious aspect of Sikhi. An example of this kind of difference would be the Nihang Singhs and Taksal Singhs, when it come to doing Aarti of Satguru Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji Maharaj. Both sides completely accept the fundamental elements of the Khalsa Panth without any doubt. But when it comes to intrepreting one of the fundamental elements, in this case Gurbani, then they have this one different of opinion. The Taksal Singhs say it shouldn't be done and the Nihang Singhs say its okay to do of Maharaj.

You are correct.

Also to speak on the witch hunt bit. Its actually a progressive move to know who is committing blasphemy of the Khalsa Panth. Also keeping a list of such groups or people is staying with rehat. Satguru himself kept such list as is evident in Satguru's rehat given to the Khalsa Panth. One example is when Satguru said do not associate with the Masands. There are others, but i think this is good enough to show Satguru is completely for the act of keeping in mind who is out to hurt the Khalsa Panth.

Once a person understands the teachings of the Guru, only then they are able to tell the difference between right and wrong.

The people who are mentioned don't o ly have a different view than us but are contrary to the teachings of guru sahib. The teachings that puratan Gursikhs would adhere to are the ones that are correct, any new aged modernised version or so called correction is incorrect. Guru sahib jis maryada that was implemented by guru sahib ji is correct and not some man or scholar made maryada.

I don't know about every person on the list. However, the people I am aware of do preach the teachings of Guru Granth Sahib ji, what more is needed from a Sikh preacher?

It should be noted that Maryada do change as time goes one. They will never be the same unless proper measures are taken. The current Panthic Sikh Rehat Maryada is based on the teachings of Guru Granth Sahib ji and is accepted by the Panth. If you do not want to follow it, by all means follow your own maryada.