sikhpaji

And you have the time to set up halls at Gurdwaras and then let them serve alcohol and meat. So tell us what seva have you done? The answer is nothing. A one year old that puts smiles on others faces as done more seva than you.

Stop serving alcohol and meat and the sangat will give you a pat on the back. Line up all your committee members and all of them will get a pat on the back.

Non-violent protest will resolve this problem.

First have the courage to have a meeting with the Satkaar Sevadaars and then start talking about who decision it is. Gurmat has given the Khalsa Panth the decision. You should be thankful to Dharma Raja let your thug buddies serve alcohol and meat for this long at Gurdwaras. If you don't do ardas, next time thank to the money you worship.

Do you see anyone backing off from sending the messages? I think you need to go lie down and get some rest for your diluded thoughts. Come back when 1+1= 2 not 11.

Are you planning to come to BC, Canada. If you are please do pm and we can sit down and have a discussion about Gurmat. I'll welcome you and your whole crew with open arms. The more of your crew comes down, the bigger the blessing for me.

So your mother and father named you Sikhpaji?

What a lot of excuses to the responses, i think you need to reconsider your approach again, and my mother and father didn't call me sikh paji, as a sikh you should reassess that you do not bring parents into this. My parents at least told me not to disrespect others.

ok, can't be bothered to read all the pointless replies from this laughable committee member.

these cunning congressi politicians will come up with a million and one excuses.

Dear Satkaar Sewadaar's, please set a date so we can protest.

It is clear dialogue with these guys is pointless.

I a not a committee member and only a member of the Gurdwara where bitter people have decidied to spread nonsense and unwilling to discuss the issue in question where the Satkaar Sewadars where invited. I will however ask the commitee to put up a formal response, with proper names !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11

I was thinking about the above, and similar, issues yesterday evening. Why do people with such questionable motives (and a disregard for true Sikhi principles) rise to positions of prominence in our religion? What is it about them that allows them to take up such positions, when one could argue that the majority of the people on these boards (and in the outside world) who know the difference between right and wrong - in the context of Sikhi - are relegated to the positions of helpless and frustrated bystanders?

What qualities do these groups of questionable people possess that means it is they who are heading our faith? Is it a symptom of the age of Kalyug, or is it too easy to blame everything on Kalyug?

The problem with people who write on these forums do not have the time to go to the Gurdwara and sacrifice time from thier families and do Seva at the Gurdwara. As Jarnail Singh posted earlier you do not look at the good things that these commitee do just the one you think is bad. As for public demonstrations, then I think those who are planning them should follow them through and it will only make them and Satkaar Sewadars look bad in front of the community.

The point is simple. It is not a commitee decision it is that sanmgat and members of the gurdwara who will make the ultimate decision. Text messages which are complete lies are going around which people have received and some of them mention that the [antic Times will be held at Graham Street. Please come and demonstrate and when people find out this is untrue only Satkaar Sewadars will get discredited along with those sending and communicating these messages.

If youi need to move forward then these people, who are posting such literature using annoymous names should publish thier full names and addresses, why are you hiding if you are speaking the truth. If you do this you may get more credability and will get invited by the commitee to talk about the issues. So many people publish Gurbani and quotes of Guru Gobind Singh JI on this forum, one of the biggest things he gave the sikhs was identity and these manmats hiding behind cyber names are worse than the commitees allowing meat and alcohol in these halls, all you can do is wind people up.

I'm sure this comment will get diverted and most of you will say that this is not the issues as with excuses before, but can someone answer why you are not willing to show your identies ? If not we suggest that this matter is closed.

The akaal takht are the ones who have banned meat an sharab at any gurdwara owned properties. So you are saying that the Akal takht is not a recognised body and you will not follow the sandesh that they took out banning meat and sharab on Gurdwara property. If you don't listen to the supreme body of the Sikhs who else are you going to listen to. The satkaar group are just relaying the message of the Akal takht.

Your knowledge and understanding of sikhi is scary. If the Gurdwara has a library I suggest you spend more time reading books and building up your knowledge or sit in the darbaar and listen to gurbani

Sikhpaji your lack of understanding of sikhi is scary. Ian amazed that you need to speak to a more recognised body than the Akal takht.

Malkeet Singh Ji, apparently the Akal Takht had a meeting which lasted three days to clarify eating meat amongst sikhs where all the senior scholars were asked to give a verdict, after the three days they could not decide whether meat is prohibited in sikhism or not. Inderjit Singh Khalsa, Hazoori Ragi Jatha were part of the meeting and advised of this and we have written to the Akal Takht asking them for clarification and till today there has been no response.

Secondly you mention 25 million members, its ashame that the majority of them even some of those who are Amrit Dhari get thier children married in front of the Gurur Granth Sahib and tell the Gurdwara not to do speeches as they have paid £50000 for a lunch venue where there is meat, drinking and dancing and thier son's take thier pagh off, have a shave, drink and eat meat.

Are these the 25 millions you are talking about ? Education for this must start at home. Don't blame the gurdwara instituions where a lot of people do give thier time and effort. I have heard people complain that the Gurdwara Sahib charge £250.00 for conducting the complete wedding ceremony inlcuding hire for tea an milni's whereas these same Amrit Dhari's have no issue to fulfill thier childrens pleasure and spend thousands on meat and drinks outrside.

The Gurdwara as I have heard before promotes ni meat and alchol by giving the hall free if there will be vegetarian dinner without drinks and dancing but only 2 families in the last year have accepted this.

I am not condoning anyone's actions but when people tell me of a Sandesh to be implemented and the indivduals who attempt to implement this attend wedding of close family where they have meat and drinks I feel it hypocritical.

And Mental Singh, why dont you get an upto date original verdict from the Akal Takht on thier views and publish it, as your arguments continue about the Sandesh from them. I am still awaiting a reply as are other Gurdwara and we have spoken to them but we have not had anything in writing. I look forward to seeing an upto mandate from them.

Sikhpaji you seem to have a wild imagination. Not sure how you worked out I am part of the opposition party at the Gurdwara from my previous update but you seem to have an in-depth understanding of what's happening there. Before making such statements and naming people in public forums you should get proof. If someone has taken that much money let the polie to their investigations and get to the truth. If they do not charge anyone you should be careful what you say.

Your update only highlights the major problems that are occurring at this Gurdwara. Don't take this away from the beadbi that is taking place at the gurwara. If you are in charge now then you re responsible so deal with it instead

Of making excuses.

Don't try and big yourself up on a public forum and talk the talk. If you can't be an adult then go and join another forum.

Mental Singh Ji, glad i struck a nerve like you did with Pyara Singh Bhogal and you were proud of it, Satkaar Sewadaars do not havce a fixed address or telephone number so why are they representing the UK Sangat, how many members are there of the UK Sangat that they represent ? There are over 4000 members at the gurdwara in Birmingham alone, so if all the 15 instituions get together there will be approx 20000 members how many of these are represented against Satkaar Sewadars. We need to talk to recognised bodies nbot an email address and a mobile phone number.

Don't think anyone is dissing the website but are stating the hypocrisy it shows on the committees behalf. It is sending a mixed message to the sangat and portrays a rosey picture while underneath there are many acts of beadbi taking place.

I really think that Mental Singh is bitter and from an opposition party at the gurdwara the way he is speaking. So sad talking about beadbi when £88k of the sangats money is missing from the car park income, and the people who became directors, Tarsem Singh Ajimal (bound over by the police for smashing windows and a suspect for the brutal attack on another sikh leader), Ajit Singh Ubhi (who does nothing bur swear and his son's Boota a dentist and Muktiar a solicitor were cautioned for threatening the guy who had his leg broken by the opposition party for speaking the truth about missing money and the Gurmuck Chana who was treasurer and company secretary and will not give the accounts to the gurdwara)., Even sadder is that Trustees such as Pyara Singh Chagger and sons and Mohinder Sinkgh Manku who were property trustees said they gave no authority for the above to take the lease for the car park out from the Girdwara and become directors.

If anyone is diverting attention from the real issue's affecting Sikhism it is you Mental Singh, come forward with your real name if you are a Guru Ji Ka Sikh. If you do not have the guts then delete your profile from this forum. Sikhs do not need stirrers in thier community.

WJKK WJKF

I know their games.

They will tell their sangat that "others" are against their "caste" and are trying to close them down just because of their caste. majority of the desi bandheh will believe this and stop going to other gurdwaras and bring their kids to Ramgarhia, as a show of solidarity and unity.

nearly all Ramgarhia gurdwaras have been built on this principle, and not for the betterment of the Panth or to flourish Sikhi.

Many Gursikhs have allowed the issue of beadbi, chairs in langar & abuse of golak to go unchallenged for the sake of not stiring up caste hatred.

This is how anti panthic, bhaman promoting corrupt leaders have taken over these gurdwaras.

This is the same Gurdwara where they married a paki to an apni and read the name of Raja Khan in the Ardass, then lied point blank to Sikh leaders. They had no reply when the recording was played.

These guys have shown their colours many times. Congresi's to the core.

Same goes for Beadbi at Ravidass temples. Many cases where Sewa of DHAN Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaaj is lacking or non existant.

But we're happy to turn a blind eye, because we do not want to offend others sentiments.

Gurbani tells us to allow sin, to allow paap, to allow beadbi is also a paap.

In the court of Dharam Raaj we will all be held accountable and there will be no excuse

I am totally gobsmacked at the comments made above about the supposed Muslim person who got married to a Sikh Girl. Firstly I think you need to check your records to see if his name was Khan and whether this was said in the Ardsass. I am aware and I saw a copy of the booking

at the gurdwara and the wedding card which said the boys name was just Raaj. If the family manipulated the situation so that they could justify the fact thier daughter got married at the Gurdwara to satisfy themselves then that is no fault of the commitee. Checks have been put in place know and I am aware that one of my cousins wanted to get married there to a hindu punjabi girl and the refused, They check all your passports and ID's on a form prior to allowing you to book there which is not the case for most Gurdwara where some of these 'Sikh ' Leaders Reside. I went to demonstrate the day this was incorrectly communicated and saw a video of this guy changing his name and following the Guru Granth Sahib. His name was changed to Raj Singh by deed Poll and the person who conducted the ceremony was Inderjit Singh Khalsa, Hazoori Ragi at Harminder Sahib. I am sure that if you

go there the commitee will show you the video. So stop spreading malicious rumours which does our community no good.

To the point of the Hall. If you ask the Previous Head Granthis family they will confirm to you that there was no charge for the Hall for Lunch at his daughters wedding. The Gurdwara Committee has confirmed with me that they do not charge for the hall as long as there is no meat, alcohol, or dancing for the meal. Unfortounately only 2 families over the last 3 years have booked it for this reason.

As people say with Drug Addicts, if there was not a demand for it there would not be a business for it. So more emphasis should be given to that and educating our sikh community. Educating the boy and Girl getting married that wearing a Turban in the morning and shaving straighaway afterwards and rushing the religios ceremony should not be encouraged and they need to be educated that if they did not want drink and meat there would not be a need to book the halls for this reason. Closing the hall will drive all these Sikh people to go other halls. You and not stopping the practice of Sikh's eating meat and alcohol but just diverting them elsewhere. Let us educate the families of all Castes that we do not have a Meat and Drink Party before or after a wedding. The gurdwara may benfit by about £500.00 for the hir of the hall but its the Halwai and hotels who charge £50 per head who are ripping our community apart. A tenth of that money could go to a good Sikh causes would prevent the Gurdwara having to fund there running in other ways, suchj as hiring out halls.

I have seen people paying the Gurdwara £250.00 for the Wedding complain every bit of the way but paying a hall and halwaii for the Lunch after costing them £25000 is accepted. That is what we need to focus on and stop.

The only hypocrites are those who post negativity about thier sikh brothers Ramgarhia on this forum and in general. This matter is going beyond a joke in that Ramgarhias are being targetted.

Like it or not all the other so called castes are hypocrites, Tie a turban for the day of thier wedding, get married in front of the Guru Granth Sahib then 30 minutes later shave thier heade

for a sharaab and meat party. Even all the women drink, have short hair, and i suppose they are all Ramgarhias.

<Mod Cut, no insulting other members> and face it that Ramgarhia Sikh Temple is a prestigeous Gurdwara. Ashame those of you making negative comments

dont follow the Sikh Rehat Maryada yourselves. Just read it and digest before criticising others. Maybe you should know that such people who comment like this are responible for ripping the Sikh Community apart..