Indysinghj

Ravidasi followers of ballan dera dont represent all chamar, it only represents the ones that follow that particular dera, all the rest are followers of sikhism and are proud sikhs

We need to bring all sikhs together on a equal platform, move away from the evil hindu creation of caste. We will be the ones to blame when we become the minority. We sikhs need to unite or we sikhs will split further. Respect to all sikhs who don't discriminate and following sikhi the way our Guru's expect us to.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa

Waheguru Ji Ke Fateh

As Sikhs why are following castes. We never seem to stop blaming each other when we have a bigger problem. Their are bigger organisations out there that want this and are trying everything possible to break us sikhs.

I do believe us sikhs have discriminated lower castes but i'm sure you all know that CHAMAR have contributed to sikhism and protecting it from its enemies.

Shaheed Beant Singh Khalsa who took revenge on the 1984 attack on The Golden Temple, he was a chamar sikh.

Giani Ditt Singh Khalsa who is the famous scholar and author of Sikh Literature and his contribution to the Khalsa Panth & Singh Sabha Movement, he also is a chamar sikh.

Bhai Sangat Singh Ji who played a major role in the battle of chamkaur and was blessed with shaheedi and Guru Gobind Singh blessed him with his dress, his appearance almost was of Guru Gobind Singh Ji, he was a chamar sikh.

Bhai Madan Singh Ji & Bhai Jiwan Singh Ji along side with Guru Gobind Singh Ji in the battle of Chamkaur, they were chamar sikh.

Bhai Jai Singh Khalkat the great martyr of sikhism who approximately 255 years ago was skinned alive refusing to compromise his sikh religion.

Bhai Jaita Singh Ji who brought Guru Tegh Bahadhur Ji's severed head from delhi at great risk. a chamar sikh.

many more to name but why dont people understand the facts and truth about chamar sikh before they criticise them.

The problem is why doesn't SGPC like to tell the sikh people the truth and talk about these protectors of sikhi, these important vital contributors to sikhi, they deserve a major place in sikhism and respect. Is it because they are chamar sikh. Im proud to be a chamar sikh.

Please don't compare us or relate us to sant balle wale followers, you cant put us all in the same group, the same way you cant put other sikh communities who try to be different or separate

Plus many more to name who have played a vital part in sikhi, does

PunjabiKing you call yourself a sikh, you say that you follow the rehat maryada then why do you follow the hindu tradition of castes, Why you believe their is a hierarchy, who are you to determine who is high or low, who are you to say who is a sikh and who is not.

Our sikh Gurus / Bhagats came to teach us that everyone is equal but we judge people on their traditions and way of life and why they do things different, we categorise people into groups and then try to segregate them instead of trying to unite them.

Instead of judging other sikhs, why not be a better sikh yourself. Having the title of Bhagat or Guru is not a big issue, it will not make you a better sikh or not knowing the answer, these are immaterial, by wasting time trying to distinguish which carries more weight is disgusting. Wasting your life trying to figure out why people differ to your opinion is sad. At least these Sikh Bhagats and Gurus are in the Guru Granth Sahib and we should respect that.

One more thing Chamar Sikhs also have their Gurdwara named after all sikh gurus and shaheeds and important figures in sikhism. In the time of Guru Ram Das he allowed chamar and other so called low castes in to the fold of sikhism. The four entrances in Golden Temple are for all people of all walks of life. We have white sikhs converts, its like saying they are not really sikhs when they are. Why judge people.

If you look up Chamar Sikhs from sikh history, then you will come up with Bhai Sangat singh whose appearance was that of Guru Gobind Singh Ji. Having this quality he helped with Guru Gobind Singh's Escape from Chamkaur. Read Up. You Have 40 Singhs of Chamkaur i.e Bhai Madan Singh & Bhai Jivan Singh who were also chamar sikhs. They also had their brothers and sons who became shaheed for sikhism.

You had Shaheed Beant Singh Kalsa who took revenge for the attack on Harmandir Sahib in 1984. His wife till today and family play a big role in Sikhism. The list can carry on but why we need to prove to you when you already have judges the Chamar Sikh Community.

Finally I don't know much on dogs and horses............. Obviously you must belong to the better out of the two..............we sikhs are SHER.

When you go to Harmandir Sahib Ji there is a sign outside before you enter for you "NO DOGS ALLOWED" you must of seen it

Hahaha

Idol worshipping, meat eating, drinking etc anything against rehet maryarda and you still think that is sikhism? Then you have the nerve to try and say because I myself dont go against the rehet maryarda im an RSS or whatever. You make me laugh. Then you come on this site and refer to a bhagat as guru? lol

You admit your chamar and now your lecturing me about sikhism? How dare you! Now understand this and take the message home - A dog born in a stable is not a horse.

I totally agree with you, if only people go and visit and see for themselves, they will see no difference to any other gurdwara. We go to respect the holy Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

The Gurdwara does not belong to a particular caste, we think it does by the name of the gurdwara but it is open to all sikhs. Ive visited handsworth Gurdwara and there is no difference.

We need to stop getting into a hindu tradition of caste, We as sikhs now follow this tradition more than hindus and we say we are proud sikhs. We criticise sikhs from different backgrounds because we say they do things differently. If you go back home to punjab, india depending on which part of punjab you goto there is a slight difference in traditions, rituals or even the language punjabi. We should just respect everyone and stop getting into silly debates.

Chamar from punjab are mainly all Sikhs, like many other sikh castes. I know sikhs in this country who have converted to christianity, islam and sikhs who have families who still today follow many hindu traditions. They also don't call themselves sikhs yet they were born in sikh families.

Isn't the idea to become a better sikh yourself than worrying about the next person.

Seeing as many of you are making statements about Ravidas Gudware without actually having been to one, let me clear some misconception up.....seeing as I apparently fall into this f**ked up idea of a chamaar caste and caste system in general.

Firslty, what is a Gudwara?

The home of Maharaji.....regardless of whether the Gudware 'belongs' to a particular caste or not....you primary goal is to go and see and give your respect to Maharaji.

Secondly, whilst I disagree with the use of Guru when referring to Bhagat Ravidass....the Gudware and every function of the Gudwara (Handsworth/Grove Lane) is just the same as every other Gudware.....

I think the issue here is the old system of having some Gudware being run by commite (as the Grove Lane one is)....I've seen the committee....sadly lacking in Gursikhs.....and with the old system comes the old way of life...aka the caste issue.

Regardless of whether a Gudware is a Ravidass or Ramgharia or Bhatra Gudwara, your only intention as a Gursikh when visiting such places is to see Maharaji.

I don't think we can lay waste to all such sacred places, even if the Gudware claim to be part of particular group and we CERTAINLY shouldnt begin to critize all who go that Gudware or all who fall into these backwards caste ideas....

I for one find the Ravidass Gudware on Grove Lane reallly peaceful and I have NO problem going to ANY Gudware from any caste...as long as I get the dharshan of my Maharaji..

PunjabiKing if you ever go to a Gurdwara you bow to the Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Within our holy book a place is given to all sikhs from all backgrounds from Balmiki, Chamar, Nai, Julaha, etc this means you bow to them and give the same respect regardless of them being a bhagat or guru. The Guru Granth Sahib does not contain bani from all 10 sikh gurus, does that mean you don't believe in the gurus who don't have their bani in the Guru Granth Sahib Ji. The worst thing your probably not a sikh, you sound like a RSS or a hindu.

Yes i am a chamar sikh and proud, i have many family members who are amritdhari. If you don't know what your talking about then your better of converting to next religion

PunjabKing your obviously not a sikh you must be one of these RSS (A Hindu pretending to be a Sikh) who are trying to destroy sikhism. Just because some of them don't have the same nishan sahib does not mean they do not follow sikhism.

Talking about sikh names, well if you look back when all sikhs were hindu's they all had hindu names, when they became sikhs they just added singh to it. So called low castes have been part of sikhism from the very start but when they were they were going to become amritdhari they were asked to keep there names so other sikhs knew they belong to low castes. This proves that sikhs till know we sikhs do not follow the Guru Granth Sahib, we follow the caste system more than hindus.

What about these days sikhs who have english names, most don't like to have the name singh in their name, does that mean they are not sikh.

You have sikhs from all backgrounds who follow sikhism in different ways, or have translated to the way that it suits them, punjabiking who gives you RSS girls the right to judge anyone. You have sikh temples were they sacrifice bukrah, you have sikh temples were alcohol is served as langar & you have sikh temples which serve meat etc, this is all against the khalsa panth or rehat maryada, they all call themselves sikhs.

I know baptised sikhs who attend mandirs and believe in all suspicious things in life & idol worship, what do you have to say about them. You jump to the chance to deny sikhs from low castes any position within sikh society, yet you don't have the balls follow sikhism yourself, Typical of you hindu RSS.

Only thing you have not disagreed with me is with the chamar sikhs who have contributed to sikhism. Chamar sikh temples are not all called Guru Ravidas Temples. You have chamar sikhs who have named there temples after the ten gurus, you have chamar sikh temples named after shahedd like bhai sangat singh, bhai madan singh & bhai jivan singh. Sikhs from all communities go there. Your mind obviously is not that broad, you only look far as your nose, you look at a few Guru Ravidas temples and you judge the rest of them in the world.

RSS followers like you have always tried to split the sikh community and finance is always on your mind, just the way you have proved in your reply. Guru Ravidas/ Bhagat Ravidas whats the big deal, is that gonna stop you being who you are or stop you being a wannabe sikh.

You don't have the right to judge anyone

PunjabKing your obviously not a sikh you must be one of these RSS (A Hindu pretending to be a Sikh) who are trying to destroy sikhism. Just because some of them don't have the same nishan sahib does not mean they do not follow sikhism.

Talking about sikh names, well if you look back when all sikhs were hindu's they all had hindu names, when they became sikhs they just added singh to it. So called low castes have been part of sikhism from the very start but when they were they were going to become amritdhari they were asked to keep there names so other sikhs knew they belong to low castes. This proves that sikhs till know we sikhs do not follow the Guru Granth Sahib, we follow the caste system more than hindus.

What about these days sikhs who have english names, most don't like to have the name singh in their name, does that mean they are not sikh.

You have sikhs from all backgrounds who follow sikhism in different ways, or have translated to the way that it suits them, punjabiking who gives you RSS girls the right to judge anyone. You have sikh temples were they sacrifice bukrah, you have sikh temples were alcohol is served as langar & you have sikh temples which serve meat etc, this is all against the khalsa panth or rehat maryada, they all call themselves sikhs.

I know baptised sikhs who attend mandirs and believe in all suspicious things in life & idol worship, what do you have to say about them. You jump to the chance to deny sikhs from low castes any position within sikh society, yet you don't have the balls follow sikhism yourself, Typical of you hindu RSS.

Only thing you have not disagreed with me is with the chamar sikhs who have contributed to sikhism. Chamar sikh temples are not all called Guru Ravidas Temples. You have chamar sikhs who have named there temples after the ten gurus, you have chamar sikh temples named after shahedd like bhai sangat singh, bhai madan singh & bhai jivan singh. Sikhs from all communities go there. Your mind obviously is not that broad, you only look far as your nose, you look at a few Guru Ravidas temples and you judge the rest of them in the world.

RSS followers like you have always tried to split the sikh community and finance is always on your mind, just the way you have proved in your reply. Guru Ravidas/ Bhagat Ravidas whats the big deal, is that gonna stop you being who you are or stop you being a wannabe sikh.

You don't have the right to judge anyone

I think you will find the majority of Ravidassia temples do not follow the khalsa panth or the rehet maryarda. If you ever seen these places they have some next symbol up instead of the khanda on the flags outside.

Why should we try separate this community? You cant call these temples Guru Ravidass 'sikh' temples as the sangat is not 'sikh', most have hindu sounding names/surnames. Also saying Guru Ravidass is incorrect as we sikhs beleive he was not a guru - he is bhagat. You sound like a choora/chamar indysinghj are you? - dont try changing sikhism! These Ravidassia are not sikh by their actions, ways and how they worship. Its people like you who are polluting our belief. If your choora/chamar then to become a sikh you must reject these temples and go to a proper sikh temple and do things the right way - but I warn you that we will not accept any nonsense like you been talking.

The only advantages I can think off if we do split this community is that then the temples can come under our control - donations from the ravidassia sangat can raise more finances for us sikhs, the land of their temples would boost our assets. We can audit them every so often to make sure they are doing things right etc.