Dudleysingh

Someones 'home' ?

We're talking about a gurdwara hall for which the gurdwara recieved a massive grant from dudely metropolitan council on the basis that it was a registered charity. It got itself registered as a charity on the basis of being a SIKH GURDWRA !!! Thats money taken from the mouths of hard up hard working citizens of Dudley.

Don't pay no rates.....on the basis of being a SIKH GURDWARA !!!!

Don't pay no business tax......on the basis of being a SIKH GURDWARA !!!!

Don't pay no corporation tax.......on the basis of being a SIKH GURDWARA !!!!

You wanna hold parties there ? Wanna claim that its not affiliated to the Gurdwara ? Well then its simple : Pay back the people of Dudley the massive amount of money claimed in grants, on the basis of being a sikh place of worship. Pay the citizens of Britain back taxes for the last decade. Taxes that were never paid on the basis of being a SIKH PLACE OF WORSHIP, thus a registered charity.

Until the Dudley Punjabis can reach into their pockets and find the several hundred thousands pounds it has stolen from the public purse it is, and will remain, a theiving, lying, scrounging benefit cheat, swindling community of Punjabi. An embarrasment all round. Not only to the Sikhs but to the Punjabis generally who, in the rest of the country have a reputation for honesty, hard work and non-reliance on state handouts. Dudley.....an embarrasment to every Punjabi....to every Sikh.

You're either a child or just incredibly stupid DudlySingh so.....just a little bit of info for ya : In London, the 'east' is the cheaper part. 'South' of the river is historicaly cheaper still. The 'west' is the more expensive part. The larger Sikh section is in the 'west'. Of all the Sikhs in 'west' London, Southall only houses a small fraction of them. There are many more in other areas and boroughs in west London. But....even in Southall....with its high rental rates and new high speed link with Paddington, a house will cost at least 2 or 3 times more than Dudley. Myself ?.....I live in Osterley. Throughout London, considered one of the premier residential neighbourhoods and populated largely by Sikhs. The average price of a normal 3 bed semi here is £750,000. These figures are way beyond your level of understanding DudleySingh. Don't go there.

Cleaners at the airport ? Yes. Some of us are cleaners at the airport. Some of us are general managers at the airport. We occupy all levels at the airport. And thus we're back to what I said about how different the tax / rate swindling Punjabis of Dudley are to the rest of the country. We Sikhs are brought up with a fantastic work ethic. We're as honoured and gratefull to clean toilets as we are to being a partner in a city law firm. Hard work is very very important to us as Sikhs. You seem to have a very limited understanding of sikhism dudleysingh. If I met you in different circumstances somewhere else......I think I could instantly tell you were from Dudley. You have dudley written all over you. Good luck with that.

Trust me these number are not beyond me,

your soooo up your own!

how did you fund your place in osterly.... gurdwara funds

Give up ....i dont give a too hoots.

your just a typical joker from london, trust me i meet them every week,

Joker,

Looks like Mr Dudley wants us to develop some warmth for him!

Has anybody felt and warmth coming from Mr Dudley on this Forum? Mr Dudley will be asking us to show some warmth to Hilter, Pol Pot, and Indira Gandhi next!!

By the way if you Look at Mr Dudley's posts, Mr Dudley doesn't answer the questions you put to him. It is worth talking to Mr Dudley?

Sadh Sangat Ji, Be savvy to Mr Dudley ways - it is very clear that he dislikes the Khalsa Panth & the 5 K's Guru Gobind Singh Ji gifted to the Panth.

Dear Sadh Sangat Ji, you all know that Mahatma Gandhi, Nehru, and his daughter Indira Gandhi wanted the Sikhs to forget Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji, the Khalsa Panth Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji started, and the 5 K's Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji gifted to the Panth!! We can all supply this forum with loads of references to statements and press releases from Mahatma Gandhi, Nehru, and his daughter Indira Gandhi, where, they clearly disrespected Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaaj, the Khasla Panth, and the 5 K's (especially the Kirpan). All 3 of them hated the Amritdhari of the Khalsa Panth !!!<B><BR style="mso-special-character: line-break"><BR style="mso-special-character: line-break"></B>

Dear Sadh Sangat Ji, you also know that it is a known fact, that, Nehru and his daughter Indira Gandhi were the direct descendants of Gangu Ram. Gangu Ram was the individual who tricked Mata Gujri Ji and the two infant Sahizade, Sahibzada Zorawar Singh Ji (only 7 years old) and Sahibzada Fateh Singh (only 5 years old), to his house. Gangu Ram then informed the Kotwal of Morinda about their presence in his house. Then Jaani Khan brought them as prisoners to Sirhind. Faujdar Wazir Khan of Sirhind imprisoned them in the Thanda Burj (cold Fort). This lead to Mata Gujri Ji dying in the tower and the two infant Sahibzade being bricked alive. The Sahibzades knee caps were smashed in with a hammer to keep the wall straight, whist they were conscious. The wall fell when it reached their necks, and I have heard, that at that point, their throats were slit. These infant sons of Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaaj endured all the pain and shaheedi to keep the Panth and the 5K's going, which you all enjoy today. You will clearly see that Mr Dudley has an inherent hate for the Panth and the 5K's (the Amritdhari of Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaaj).

I'm sure that if, Mahatma Gandhi, Nehru, and Mrs Indira Gandhi (daughter of Nehru) and descendant of Gangu Ram, were still alive to join with in the oppression and supression the Khalsa Panth which still continues in india todya, then they would all have given Mr Dudley and big hug and kiss, for continuing their work for them!!! I am sure Mr Dudley is made very happy and proud by the thought of Gandhi, Nehru, Indira, and Gangu Ram, all giving him a BIG HUG, for him continuing their work today!!

I dont need any warmth of you guys, nor from Gandi & co....

You lot just cant take anyone challanging your views, if its not your way..its the hight road......

Like i said you lot are welcome to your vistory and this site...

loosers

give it a rest now, stop moaning, you have wasted 20 pages with your crap.

what i want to know is

1. Your gurdwara has been there 30 odd years. Why can you not afford a 30 year old mortgage?

2. The money you made from the Hall so far, where has that gone? why have you not been able to clear off your debts?

3. All other areas with similar size sangat of Dudley are making multi-million pound Gurdwaras, but you are supposedly so broke you have to hire our the hall for sharaab and meat?

You are corrupt lying scumbags.

The Sikhi we support is the Sikhi Where Dhan Sri Guru Gobind Singh ji Maharaaj called the Golok Chors together and burnt them alive.

If you don't like it, resign and join another faith.

WHY DONT YOU GO AND JOIN ANOTHER FAITH.

WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE ???

YOU QUESTION MY BELIEFS,

JUST TAKE A LOOK AT YOURSELF.

Southall is not a good place to live. I know.

Many of the so called Punjabi youth are on drugs and the girls just goto Ealing for a bit of Gora and then hangout with mummy and daddy at HAvelock Road on the Sunday morning. True I'm sure it happens in other regions but not to this scale.

Well said, and very true.

Does anyone know if Dudley is sending any coaches to the rememberance march ? Nah...only kidding, there is something very seriously wrong with the Dudley sangat. You've got every sikh in every town in the UK angry and disapproving of what they're doing in Dudley....and yet still the Dudley people are oblivious as to how much they are hated by Sikhs from Southall to Hounslow....from Handsworth to Balsal Heath.....from Barking to Finchley.....from Coventry to Leicester.....from Bradford to Leeds etc etc. Universally despised by the Sikhs the world over and yet they still don't understand. I've said this before here, we Sikhs around the world want to, and deserve to, see the faces of these people. Talking to friends and relations these last few days the conversation very much centres around the identity of those women (some supposedly amritdhari) inside the party hall laughing at sikhs outside chanting waheguru. The identity of those young men inside the hall that laughed at simran and tried to drown it out with bhangra. Sikhs up and down this country are speculating on the identity of the real faces behind them and anonymous people on the internet such as 'dudley singh'

Like I said....there is something wrong with the people of Dudley. I don't know whether its something to do with the water supply or something brought about by poverty, seeing as they live in a town where a house is bought for the same price as a garden shed in other sikhs areas of the uk.....but whatever the reason they do have very poor comprehension skills and the only way they'll understand is if their identities....pictures of their little faces....are published for the benefit of the wider UK sangat. Only then will they finally understand what the uk sikhs think of them.

hay, no need to speculate, i saw what happened in dudley myself,

ahh so west london, you boys all live in shed's on teh fight path to heathrow, so the cheap seats of london town, and all work at the airport as cleaners,

atleast the people of dudley are hard working and have time for each other.

you londoners dont even speak to each other with a smile, its always why u speaking to me! and you talk about poverty.

when you develop some warmth for another person in the world then speak ,

If this isn't slave like mentality...then i don't know what is?

Here we have a person who claims to be Sikh but is actually putting worldly law above his Guru's hukam...and all just to satisfy his lust for worldly pleasures!!

Who do you think you are questioning my sikh beliefs,

just take a look at what was achieved on saturday and question your own moral values,

If you are proud of saturday , then you must me a minority.

i dont believe the guru's hukam supports intolorance, or agression to another person.

you obviously have doubts in your beliefs, to even question another persons.

all ther reports of militants are correct , that the only way to describe the tribal action that is taking place in the name of the Guru.

YOU ARE WELCOME TO YOUR VICTORY - hope you are all very proud of what you achieved.

So what you are saying is that there is no place for Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji's Amrit in your new version of Sikhi?

Do you believe that Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaaj was one of the 10 Gurus? Do you believe that the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji has the light of all 10 Gurus within it?

Looks like satkar had their own brand of Sikhi on saturday, YOU ARE WELCOME TO YOUR NEW SIKHI WORLD

Wich supports violance , agrression, vandalism, and intimidation....

I dont have a new version, Sikh sangat does!

If this isn't slave like mentality...then i don't know what is?

Here we have a person who claims to be Sikh but is actually putting worldly law above his Guru's hukam...and all just to satisfy his lust for worldly pleasures!!

Get real, so the satkar is above the law,or you got your own laws,

WJKK WJKF

dudleysingh, I do not mean to cause you disrespect, however, you too need to stop living in the past. You have said, as a weak argument to one of my comments on the racism of the police, that 'worse things have happened in the past'. If we are to stop living in the past, then we can also take the racist police officers to court on account of racism and harassment. The same can be done to the partygoers, under the terms of harassment.

A criminal can come under many forms - lawfully, morally, ethically, physically etc. The Dudley committee are, by Sikh ethics and morals, moral and ethical criminals. They are two types of criminals. The criminals by law are: the police officers, the partygoers and the Singhs who broke in. However, the Singhs who broke in are only ONE form of criminal - lawful. The police officers are three different types - lawfully, morally and ethically.

The laws of this country can twist the opposing side's argument also, please do not use the law as an argument as it is a very weak argument in some cases.. Only when legal documents come into the matter can it truly become a strong argument. If the legal documents are in any way incorrect or controversial, then the law can be applied here and there can be arrests based on the fact that the legal document is false. If the Dudley committee do not have some legal documents in place, then the Sangat could take them to court and be '21st century citizens'.

I do understand your perspective, however, you are not defending it well enough for me to agree with your points.

~ Harsakhshi Kaur

That rich isn't it.. the way this protest went about on saturday, it was certainly somthing form the dark ages.

criminal acts were commited, againt people and peoperty FACT

if there are issues with the committe , thats a different matter.

The actions of individuals dring the whole stakar campaign into question, its methods, its tactics, and its organisation or ability to control what it creates.

If there are issues with the ploice's action on saturday, then bring them to account.

Wouldn't it have been lovely to see this truth in the British Press!!!

Yes I think the British Tax Payer should be very concerned with the local Dudley non practising Sikhs who can be easily recognised, as basically they will not resemble a Sikh in any way, shape, or form. Most of the non-practising Sikhs of Dudley normally have shaved heads and more likely to be mistaken for Hari Krishna worshippers, but do not have the honesty and integrity of Hari Krishna worshippers. The shaved head non-practising Sikhs generally lack belief in any religion. There are a few Dudley Temple committee members that have deliberately adopted the appearance of Sikhs to cause unfair competition regarding party halls in the Dudley area. The Dudley Sikh imitating Committee do this because it pains them to think that their Shaved head congregation, who do not practise Sikhism, may pay money to people of other races, including ordinary British Tax paying Citizens, in order to hire halls for parties. The Dudley Temple committee members, who try imitate the appearance of real Sikhs, use the religion of the Sikhs to market and advertise their Dudley party hall for the consumption of alcohol. This marketing method, and drinking alcohol, is very clearly against even the most basic of Sikh Tenets. The committee seem to take great pleasure in knowing that they are hurting the sentiments of the Sikhs, and at them same time, drawing business away from local law abiding British Tax payers, who have set up their party halls in the correct and proper manner, and who use fair marketing and advertising techniques to drawn in their customers. As mentioned before, the Sikh imitating Dudley Temple committee members have argued that, why should our congregation (mostly non-practising shaved head Sikhs) pay money over to law abiding British Tax Paying Citizens who own party halls, when they could instead, keep the money within their own "non-Sikhi practising" community. This British Tax payer, and especially the Dudley Press/Newspapers, should note that it is the shaved head congregation, and Sikh imitating Dudley Temple committee, who are working against the Dudley Tax Payer and business owners. The proper British Sikhs, who support long beards and turbans, are supporting all the genuine British Tax payers of Dudley by trying to prevent the unfair marketing being used against the British Tax payer by this shaved head congregation of people who do not practice Sikhism. The practising genuine Sikhs who protested against the activities taking place at the hall were defending the rights of the British Tax Payer.

The rest of the Dudley and National Community, the Dudley and National Press, and the Dudley and National Police Force should realise that the Sikhs, who supported long beards and turbans, who protested against the activities of the hall on Saturday, where fighting for the rights of the British tax payer!

We should leave the sale and promotion of alcohol to the Pubs, Nightclubs, off licences, and restaurants, as allowed by the law of this land. Gurdwares should not be taking business away for Pubs, Nightclubs, off licences, and restaurants that offer anyone a place to drink without offending anyone!

The Great British Press and Media, and the Police, should be supporting their tax paying Pub, Nightclub and restaurant owners, rather than protecting and assisting mislead Gurdwara Committee members in taking customers away from the Legitimate British Tax Paying Men and Women who sell alcohol in legal, legitimate and suitable venues!!!

One of the best quotes I have heard recently is, "saying you are a Sikh, when you do not practise even the basic Sikh Doctrines and Tenets, is like saying you are a footballer, when you do not even play football" - brilliant quote!

So what are you trying to say ... your not a sikh if you've not done amrit?

or ar you just doing an add for a local function hall?

I don't think the pressure that would be felt in a pind back home would be experienced by the folks in Dudley.

I just saw that ITV video. It just reinforces the stereotype of 'slow' northerners.....

It was like being in the middle of

.....

lol, get a life, nothing wrong with people form 'up north, alteast they have more time for one another.

http://www.itv.com/c...-disorder56929/

The chap in this story comes across as a complete lafanga, "we was trying to get to the bottom of this..through negotiation with the council ....what the covenant was and what the lease was saying". Looks like the council must be higher than the Akal Takht for the Dudley Committee. I think its time the Akal Takht Jathedar summoned these idiots and if they don't turn up declare them tankhaniya and instruct the Khalsa Panth to avoid these guys, then again they are besharam so would care little for this.

well the video speaks a 1000 words, This is the UK after all, and UK law is important, just as you respect the rules of the road, theres certain times that you need to respect the law.

He is correct that they have to take account of the covernants on the land,

The Akal takht does not preside over te UK Law.

an you all know that , other wise the M25 would have 30 lanes, all going in different directions.

WJKK WJKF

Brothers and sisters, in this matter, the violence is focussed on, but not the simran that was done beforehand.

Dudleysingh, are you by any chance a baba from this Gudwara that finally learnt how to use the old box in your house to try and start a fight with Singhs and Singhnian who are trying to defend the Sikh Maryada? Most of these protesters were peaceful. I went with my family and sat down peacefully. Do you know what even happened?

One of our Singhs was pushed aside by a police officer and searched because of his kirpan. They were blocking the way to the Community Centre, and telling some people to 'shove off'. They made racist comments towards us as we were doing our simran. Then there were partygoers who came up to some people nearby and taunted them... yet they still sat doing Simran. Throughout the whole event, various Singhs told us to keep peaceful - however, the Singhs who did 'commit violent acts' had every right to. They were provoked by partygoers, and it was quite hard not to slap them anyway - Waheguru Ji protected us from getting into a rage.

I wouldn't have agreed with violence if it was wrong, but in this case, those partygoers deserved it. There were children at this protest - I am teenager myself. We also witnessed the people go and hide away drinking and eating meat. They came and taunted us, so the lions went to fend for us. I see no wrong in that - however, if you can argue against this, please state so.

~ Harsakhshi Kaur

This is no justification of the actions that did take place. fact 3 people in hospital#

crimanal damage FACT

dosent matter how much simran took place , these acts over shadow this.

you can call them lions, i will call them criminals. we have different words

your a teenager, and you live in 21st century UK, people using raceism with sikhs is nothing new, I've lived through a lot worse, just ask your parents.

Challenge away, if you read Sikh history then you wouldn't be challenging it. But hey you define whats important to you with your next few lines

This is your real concern. Now your pals have to pay for the building window. Don't worry your pals, the committee, made alot of money off disrespecting Maharaj in the hall. They can pay for the window with blood money.

Learn your Sikhi before you speak about Sikhi. If you were worried about Sikhi, then you would have started the morcha against your own Gurdwara committee when they started the beadbi.

So you are happy for violance to take place on the streats of the UK by Sikh's who preach Sikhi on site like this... bit like you.

I'm not preaching Sikhi, or sat that i know the ins and outs of sikhi,

BUT i do know whats right and wrong , An act of violance is WRONG, Sikh history cant justify this in the 21st century. stop living in the past .

The uk has laws aginst such acts,

So what are these boys going to use in their defence... ' we did this cos were sikh' and blame sikhi.

they are nothing more than common thugs

IF this is your Gurdwara then you should have taken the lead to stop the beadbi from happening in the first place. Where were you for the past years, when this beadbi was taking place? You should hang your head in shame for allowing disrespect to take place in the Gurdwara, which you claim to be apart of. A window can be fixed, but the disrespect toward Satguru Sri GUru Granth Sahib ji Maharaj cannot be undone

Well well, the truth hurts ....

i am embaresed by the actions that too place on saturday.

so you are appy for people to behave like criminals in law,

therese 2 different issues here, i'm not defending the events that took place in the hall,

i am however challanging the actions of saturday.

this is paid for by dudley peeople,

not satkar, sikh channel, the alak takth.

now find the funding to pay for the upkeep of the building.

the acts of saturday are criminal, there is no deffence for this action. not sikhi in any way

I watched the Dudley Protest show on Sikh Channel last night at 9.30pm...now while the Gursikhs in the Studio correctly stated what occurred on the day and they did so very well but the only video's shown by Sikh Channel showed a very one sided account of the day...the videso were very aggressive and confrontational...why was the other side not shown (Simran/Jaap)? Yes a few moments were shown where simran was done but the complete focus of the videos was on the few outburst alone!

I've received numerous calls from mone friends/family saying that the protest was wrong as all the youth were acting like thugs and rampaging - this was all based on what was shown on Sikh Channel - had Sikh Channel remained unbiased in the videos they showed then i'm certain that the calls i received would have been different. Only after i told my friends/family about what truly happend...only then they understood!

Now i was there all day and can categorically say that there were just a few outburst but overall it remained a very peaceful protest! This was not shown at all by the Sikh Channel.

This video below on facebook shows how the sangat peacefully did simran for hours upone hours...but did the Sikh Channel show this? NO...why NOT?

http://www.facebook....v=2062710208631

Sikh Channel have a duty to also show the Naam Simran and Gurbani jaap that took place for hours upon hours...and not just focus on the few moments of outburst.

I personally was very dishearted having watched the show as it portrayed us all as thugs...well done Sikh Channel!

What can we expect from western media, when our own media did not portray the day accurately?

The sikh channel ....well when a presenter is using foul language, then that says it all.

This guy is emotionally obsessed with that smashed window

and here he is with the spilt food

These pyjama are using what happened to milk the situation for cheap publicity,

This is my Gurdwara too, now sceens like this upset me too.

Thugs ,violance , criminal damage,

Split Langar

if your happy with what was achieved, then your the minority. ask the people of dudley.

I'd call the people who did this criminals,

Well done , i hope your all proud of your actions.

you deserve to hang your head's in shame for this.

As far as I'm concerned the Satkaar Sewadaar's achieved a positive result even though it took 5-6 hours to get the result we wanted.

However there is a number of posts on here that talk about the "party people" provoking the peaceful protest that was taking place.

Does anyway have any footage of that? Or even the names of the people who were taunting the sangat outside? If so, post names on here, as the media coverage is very biased and in favor of the Community Centre committee, having a feeling of apathy for them. Which is not true!!!

If you believe its a positive result was achieved , then you need to take a hard look at what was achieved, and the methods used. they are some what primitive , and from the 1800's.

this is the 21st century, and this country has Laws.

An act of violance is a criminal offence, the manor in which papers were signed, is probably criminal too.

you decide!

If it's such a financial burden why not close it down? If sections of the community aren't making use of it, why continue paying for it's upkeep?

well the papers that the gurdwara was asked to sign mean that they cant sell the building, so to retain it, funding is needed, basic maths!.

The building was funded by the people of dudley,so ultiimatly its owned by them.

Even if the door are left closed, there are still cost involved.

What i would like to see is open dialogue by the people who arranged the campaign on saturday, around how they will support

the gurdwara's (not just dudley) to fund the upkeep.

You know what. You've touched on an important question.

Personally I feel that frequently Gurdwara committees have very little imagination when it comes to using property constructively. There are loads of things that could be set up to help generate income. You could open up a nursery, a gym, hold tuition classes for students who need it, music classes (as in baja, tabla etc.), vegetarian cooking classes.

thanks for your response,

this is the type of conversatios that need to take place, if the objective is to retain these facilities & sustain the gurdwara's

Unfortunatly , money has to come from somwere to be spent.

there hass to be a balance between income & spend, and engage the community,

it could be used for conference facilities, (vegi one only) but this limits its appeal to the broad community.

Yes, I would prefer to have the gurdwara shut for good if the committee and sangat find it so difficult to adhere to basic gurmat principles.

Ways to bring income would be organising events that involve the whole community and if you base these events purely on gurmat, you will start seeing yourself how much kirpa will be bestowed on the Gurdwara Sahib. Guru Sahib will do so much kirpa that you won't even need to worry about money, that's a promise.

Gurdwara Sahibs can organise, punjabi classes, kirtan classes, learning tabla or vajaa, have kids camps, santhiya classes etc you'll be amazed how much demand is out there. Have Gatka classes, have days where health professionals attend to do talks about importance of diet, fitness, health (being made aware of hypertention and diabetes etc) The power of sangat should never be underestimated, sangat will themselves donate more and more.

We always look at 'quick' fix solutions. Getting £300 quid from a party maybe attractive in the short run, but doing some gurmat based events will be an investment in the long one. You may not get quick fix results straight away, but as long as you're adhering to the basic Sikh sentiments that are expected then I promise you, GuruSahib WILL do kirpa....

to be fair, shutting down the gurdwara is probably not a viable option, its been ther for 40 years....

now you do make some vailid points on the activities that can happen there, but remember its a community facility... ie not just Sikh.. thats the basis of the planning permission.

these activities use funds, and i know you say the sangat will donate.

there no place that crages £300 for use of its hall, anywere in the uk, lets be realistic.

like i said some good points, closure is not a real option,

Yes, I would prefer to have the gurdwara shut for good if the committee and sangat find it so difficult to adhere to basic gurmat principles.

Ways to bring income would be organising events that involve the whole community and if you base these events purely on gurmat, you will start seeing yourself how much kirpa will be bestowed on the Gurdwara Sahib. Guru Sahib will do so much kirpa that you won't even need to worry about money, that's a promise.

Gurdwara Sahibs can organise, punjabi classes, kirtan classes, learning tabla or vajaa, have kids camps, santhiya classes etc you'll be amazed how much demand is out there. Have Gatka classes, have days where health professionals attend to do talks about importance of diet, fitness, health (being made aware of hypertention and diabetes etc) The power of sangat should never be underestimated, sangat will themselves donate more and more.

We always look at 'quick' fix solutions. Getting £300 quid from a party maybe attractive in the short run, but doing some gurmat based events will be an investment in the long one. You may not get quick fix results straight away, but as long as you're adhering to the basic Sikh sentiments that are expected then I promise you, GuruSahib WILL do kirpa....

to be fair, shutting down the gurdwara is probably not a viable option, its been ther for 40 years....

now you do make some vailid points on the activities that can happen there, but remember its a community facility... ie not just Sikh.. thats the basis of the planning permission.

these activities use funds, and i know you say the sangat will donate.

there no place that charges £300 for use of its hall, anywere in the uk, lets be realistic.

like i said some good points, closure is not a real option,

Dudleysingh, I would rather the gurdwara close than to have one that does maha beadbi of our king of kings, Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji

Wherever there is true Satkaar of Guru Granth Sahib Ji, GuruSahib does kirpa. Wherever there is beadbi, then the people responsible will face hardships, in one form of another, be it opposing sangat, or even to the extent of ones own health suffering. At the end of the day, one is answerable to Dharam Raj.

So please stop the cleverness in the negative posts about the Satkaar campaign. It's getting boring now. You've made your point.

Thanks for your honesty,

so 1st option...what your saying is for GNSS to close its doors for good.

any thoughts for funding the facilities, your comments would be appreciated.

for the record i'm against the methods used, and like anyone, i dont garee with meat and booze in the Gurdwara building itself.

its not about being clever

Yes its a shame the committee deliberately deceived the Police and larger Sikh community and now shamelessly portray to the media they are the victims

someone comes and smashes up the building ..then yes they are victims, its the law of the land

When the Vatican or Church of England issue religious edicts applicable to Churches worldwide, the UK churches follow suit. Our Akal Takht does the same but it appears that some committees like to pick and choose. Regardless of what's been happening at the hall for the past twenty years it has to stop. This is not only Dudley sangats hall it is every Sikhs nationwide and the same is applicable for Gurudwara related property nationwide. There are plenty of suitable locations for parties where meat and alcohol are to be consumed in the black country and beyond. You mention three injured persons but fail to mention the PEACEFUL protestors who were assaulted, abused and spat on by the party 'revellers'. This is all the committees doing coupled with poor Police mediation and equally poor Police performance on the day.

one act of violance is one too many

you know that.

Gurdwaray affiliated places shouldn't be profiting from that type of thing. It becomes corrupted then.

Even apnay who drink and eat meat don't feel such things should go on in Gurdwara affiliated places. I don't understand why that committee insisted so much?

No one is forcing people to quit drinking or eating meat. They just don't want it in Gurdwara associated places. That's not an unreasonable request.

So this is an open question....

what the proposal of the sikh sangat, sikh TV, Sikh channel, and the akal takth - to fund the upkeep of the hall?

you've got them to sign that they cant sell it.

they have to find money to fix it, and any other costs associated with saturday

what the proposal, you looking at around £30K per year.

pls be realistic just for one moment

and i dont mean anything to do with meat , booze or parties.

Respecting the property? We are not hindus that worship stone, it was about respect for Guru Sahib. In 1986 Sikhs even demolished the Sarkari Takht made in place of the Akaal Takth, there is nothing sacred about a building, least of all one made for booze ups.

But your not above the law of the land... if you dont agree, fair enough. but in the uk property has a value, so do people

2 people and a PC were injured.... how can you allow for this to happen, and still be proud.

anyone who has seen the signed documents know that there not worth the paper they are written on... i have seen them,

theres even a plea for the release of those arrested. though this campaign was went to have staying power, or dont you want your boys behind bars.

The ironic thing is that the protest was held because a Gurdwara associated property was not being respected due to meat and alcohol.

Yet the very same building was vandalised by the protesters.

Where was the respect then? :unsure2:

Well said... respect

Dudley guy - the violence only took place because your drunk men pushed the Singhs too far. Also what why do u keep mentioning the violence? What about the hours and hours of simran? DId that Just not happen? Or were u too busy with ur gidda? Learn what Sikhi is first before slanderin Gursikhs and having Singh in ur name.

Also, this story has made it on the sun where once again they use the word militant. Can we all please write to these newspapers and tell them what really went on and they are being really prejudice etc. And as Sikhs we will boycott their newspapers.

So yes i do have Singh in my name, what gives you the right to comment on me having singh in my name,?

Sikhi is about tollorance or has that been forgotten, and i didnt see any drunk men there....did you?

So your a reader of The Sun news paper.... or is that just for the pictures. were's your Sikhi gone now?

Just typical, so if anyone had an opinion of what took place in their 'back yard' its slandering the sikh sangat.

yes i do have singh in my name, just like you.

well hope that you are proud.

a single act of violance is one act too many , dosent matter that an hour of simran took place. but YOU CANT SAY VIOLANCE is acceptable behavior.

if you find that hard to read .... so be it.

yes do think it was Militant behavior.

And i didnt know that you had readers of THE SUN in the sikh sangat , not very Sikhi now!