simran21
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Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh
Sikhistan Ji, before you write things you should get your facts straight, Bhai Sewa Singh Ji Tarmala was never in the AKJ. The person you are talking about is Amarjit Singh Halwara, who had left the AKJ and started his own group, they are known as the Dasam Duaraey and have maybe the strongest presence outside India in Surrey, BC. Their group is the one that doesn't believe in Dasam Granth.
At the University at Gurdwara Prabh Milne Ka Chao they do full Nitnem and more, and one student won a medal for memorising over 40 Bani's in the contest Bhai Guriqbal Singh Ji had held in Punjab. Bhai Sewa Singh Ji Tarmala believe's fully in Dasam Patshah's Gurbani and quote's often from Sri Sarbloh Granth and Sri Dasam Granth. As for the video the technique is written in Gurbani and is mentioned in the rest of the video that this video was cut out from.
Tarmala head was once in AKJ just like normal member in his early years. Later on he left jatha. Most people says that he got kicked out because of some reasons but not sure which one. Anyway, this group is dodgy after i had conversation with one of main organisers in my area:
1. They only concentrate on Simran.
2. They actually do nitnem but do not believe in it as they say simran is more important than nitnem/kirtan.
3. They scare new people by drawing pictures of people getting killed after life - Hell concept.
4. Their rumor pr are the best. Ex: This little girl seen heaven & so on.
5. Their katha is totally based on their own concepts.
6. Most of their saamagams are only on their own version katha and simran. Amateur Kids do kirtan just for 15 mins.
7. They reject Dasam Granth completely - heard in their katha once few years ago.
In India they are known as Tarmala group (Tarmaley). In the west they are well known as Dasam Duar Group (Dasam Duaraey). However most of them are very nice people with good heart and hard workers but like bholay bhalay jatts, they are extremely naive and are stuck in the web of tarmala lies & deceit.
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Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh
There are alot of trained Parcharaks in Punjab who do parchaar in their own villages. Outside of India there are many graduates of the University in Canada, USA, Germany, Belgium, and many other countries, each graduate does parchaar in their own cities and wherever they go.
Bhai Sahib never ever has claimed to open anyone's Dasam Duaar, they only do parchaar according to Gurbani and teach how to do Simran of the Waheguru Gurmantar step by step as per Gurbani, and how Gurbani Guru tells us the Dasam Duaar opens and how the rest of the 9 doors are to be controlled. As Guru Sahib says:
ਨਉ ਦਰ ਠਾਕੇ ਧਾਵਤੁ ਰਹਾਏ ॥
ਦਸਵੈ ਨਿਜ ਘਰਿ ਵਾਸਾ ਪਾਏ ॥
quote name='ks55' timestamp='1312587670' post='507025']
1. trained parcharaks -- where are they at the moment - where are they serving - in the outside world -- ??
2. How can he claim to open das m duaar of people without the need or any talk of controlling the other open 9 duars of an individual??
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waheguru ji ka khalsa
waheguru ji ki fateh
The 30 acres of land you are talking isn't 30 acres and isn't owned by Bhai Sahib, it is owned by the Sarb Sukh Charitable Trust which has members across the US, Canada, England, and Punjab.
There was no Akal Takht Statement during Jathedar Ranjit Singh's time, there was however at the behest of a anti Naam Simran group during Jathedar Vedanti's time, but the Akal Takht later retracted that when Bhai Sahib went there to explain how Naam Simran is done with techniques in Gurbani. Since then Bhai Sahib has done Katha a number of times at the Akal Takht. Every year they go with the graduating batch to Harmandar Sahib and Akal Takht and seek Guru Sahib's blessings before the graduates go on to do Parchaar in the outside world.
how about the 30 acres of land - tarmalla owns in india??
how about the akal takht statement made against him in around bhai ranjit singh jathedars time?
waheguru ji ka khalsa
waheguru ji ki fateh
Hau Apraadhi Ji, the certificate isn't a ego booster it is meant as designation that a student has graduated from the University and are trained Parchaaraks. This is similar to what alot of Gurmat Schools do, an example is the Missionary Colleges as they also give certificates upon course completion to the Parchaaraks. This way no Katha Vaachak can claim to have graduated from the University without a certificate.
Getting a certificate saying that a person has been practising those specific things is just a potentially massive ego booster, explain where on earth is the Gurmath in that?
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waheguru ji ka khalsa
waheguru ji ki fateh
In order to clear up the constant lies spread around, Bhai Sahib stated on the Sikh Channel interview once again that they do not issue any Brahm Gian degrees. The students at the university at the end of the Gurmat course get a certificate just stating what they did there. Also they don't call themselves a Brahm Giani, they go by the the title of Bhai and preach Gurmat. By the way many AKJ members were at the Gurdwara and have travelled from afar to attend the England Samagam. Bhai Amolak Singh Ji of the AKJ did Kirtan at Gurdwara Prabh Milne Ka Chao at Moga, other AKJ members have actually done the course there. So hopefully this clears up any confusion and misinformation being spread by sources with their own agendas, and hopefully this post isn't deleted by anyone wanting lies to be spread. As for the one poster who raised the question about that Katha of the last test, if you had listened to the topic carefully you would have heard how Gurbani says Bhai Lehna Ji became Sri Guru Angad Dev Ji.
Harminder Singh I can answer some of your questions:
3. No they explain the 5 vikaar's are Sookham invisible not physical, but as in Gurbani our mind is in a Yudh with them, or wrestling match, many examples are given in Gurbani.
4. The drawings aren't to explain what happens in the brain, the drawings are used to help understand the different points that Guru Sahib mentions in Gurbani. As for the Takhts you didn't understand or you spoke to someone who didn't understand, Kesgarh Sahib, Anandpur Sahib, Akal Takht, Harmandar Sahib are outside but also inside and are referenced by their names and maps.
5. The colors are mentioned in Gurbani in Terms of elements, each color is for each element and are encountered when doing Simran, and Parkash is mentioned as well in Gurbani. Giani Thakur Singh Ji mentions different colors during Simran in one of his Kathas as well.
6. No what you see in the video does not mean those people have met the Lord, again someone may have confused you.
7. I watched the same interview from California via the net, Bhai Sahib explained that when someone learns to die by the Shabad as in Gurbani they don't necessarily have awareness of what is happening with clothes as they are emmersing their Surti in the Shabad. That doesn't mean that the Dastar coming off is natural. They had mentioned however that ever since Parchar was started there was no incident like this, and many people connected to different parties and Sants who have been sending various people to the Gurdwara may have been looking to purposely cause mischief. It wasn't a contradiction.
8. There are 3 types of Katha mentioned in Gurbani and this is Akath Katha, many may have read similar Katha by other Gurmuhks such as Baba Jawala Singh Ji and Baba Eshar Singh Ji Rara Sahib Wale, infact in Baba Eshar Singh Ji's book Eshwar Amuliya Laal (available online) Akath Katha is mentioned, it is simply the Wichaar of Gurmat according to Gurbani about how we became separated from the Lord and are to meet the Lord again.
9. Brahm Gyan is the knowledge Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji gives us, the centre is a School for this knowledge thus is called Brahm Gyan University. It is not marketing it is just a name.
10. Bhai Sahib explained in the interview they don't give Brahm Gian degrees, the certificate is for students who have practiced the teachings of Gurbani there at the Gurdwara. Brahm Gianis are only created by the Lord. They didn't say that the people are certified to have Shabad Surti Da mel, that is the aim of doing abhyaas there at the school, you misunderstood, the certificate itself only states that the Gurmukh practiced Nam Drir, Gurmantar Drir, and Sach Drir for a year.
12. Many Gurmukhs mention this happening in many Jathas. This technique is mentioned in Gurbani.
13. There is a difference between criticizing ie Nindya and telling the Truth. Nindya is due for punishment as per Gurbani.
It is better to ask a Gurmukh directly to clear up misunderstanding, like Bhai Ajit Singh Ji, or Bhai Sahib, everyone is willing to write on the net but are just to shy to talk in person, they were even taking calls during the interview but not many people phoned.
Well , I have followed whats happening in Swindon and Moga and on Sikh channel and I have even been to some of their samagams in Swindon. I have had views from some very knowledgable people both in India and UK and here is what I have to say. I will not get into any argument and will not write on this thread again.
1. They do many things right in their gurdwaras. Nitnem, Langar, respect for SGGS, belief in amrit, simran, kirtan.
2. Ajit Singh in Swindon doesn't even know very basic lines of gurbani( some of daily nitnem), I have seen him struggle to say those lines without looking at something. This leads me to beleive he doesn't gve that much emphasis on Gurbani .
3. They use concepts like panj vikaar( kaam, krodh, lobh ,moh ahankaar), soul etc and give them almost physical manifestations as if these things are physical people fighting you within your mind. So the concept of "Yudh" in that video may be understood in this light. I don't thin its correct interpretation of gurbani or gurmat.
4. They draw some pictures on whiteboard in the katha and explain what each part of brain is doing.For example "trikuti" is this particular area in head, "Bhavsagar" is this and "Narayan" is this. There are many more which they explain. They even tell that five takhts of sikhs are actually present within your head also. So again they have attached physical areas mind to concepts like bhavsagar. Again I don't think its right in light of gurmat.
5. I have myself heard in a diwan where Ajit Singh explained that when you reach this stage you see this colour, when you reach this stage you see this colour. Again I don't think its gurmat.
6. Gurbani says "Kotan mein Nanak kou Narayan je cheet" meaning there is one n millions who truely has merged with Lord but with this group , according to number of people that shout, cry aloud, lie down, get into fits in the diwan, there are quite a few who have merged with Lord (as you can see in that video).
7. In Tarmala's interview on sikh channel when he was asked about people getting into sort of fits and dastaars going off in that Video, he first explained how it is natural when one merges into Lord but in the same answer he then said that people who's Dastaars go off are mischiefs from other groups who want to defame them. It was very clearly self contradictory.
8. What is the need to call their katha "Akath Katha". True meaning ofthese words is that Katha which can not be said in words. I think its a marketing or branding technique.
9. What is the need to call their centre Brahm Gyan University. It again marketing or branding technique.
10. Again in that interview on sikh channel Tarmala explained that they don't give Brahm Gyani certificate. They just certify that people have done 1 or two years course their and have had "Shabad-Surat da mel" (merging into the lord). Well I though only Brahm Gyanis merge into Lord. So those statements are self contradicting again.
11. Since they do certain things ( as mentioned above) according to Gurmat and quote from Gurbani quite a lot, and do simran, its very hard for people with no or limited knowledge of sikhi to understand what they are getting into.
12. I have attended lot of AKJ samagams and their simran and people going into "vairaag" is totally different . They don't have few dozen of people in same room having reached "dasam duar".
13. Tarmala said in that interview that people should do simran instead of criticising them because when you criticise someone you criticise God in him. Well with that logic we should not critizise what happened in "kahan Dhesian" recently where people were dancing infront of SGGS and with that logic anybody can keep doing anything in front of SGGS.
14. I don't know why sikh channel wants to get into something like this, but as someone said it could very well be their lack of knowledge about thisgroup combined for their need of funds.
15. I think coventry gurdwara committe needs to explain why they support them.
Please forgive if my understanding is wrong or if I have hurt someone.
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Cross Roads Gurdwara Coventry . Akj, Babbar Or Tarmala ?
in WHAT'S HAPPENING?
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waheguru ji ka khsla waheguru ji ki fateh
I don't know ks55 first you were talking about the Akal Takht and when you got your answers all of a sudden your against the Akal Takht, you are presenting typical behavior of anti Panthic missionaries. People like you are the real titar's. By the way Bhai Sahib mentions the importance of Amrit many times during Katha. Maybe you should just learn to listen. It is funny everyone had a chance to call during the live interview, and ask any questions during the Samagam at Coventry but no one did, but on the internet they all come to lie and misinform as much as possible. One who lies has no feet to stand on, he will say one thing one time and once explained he will say another thing another time. Gurmukh's don't do that, that is the difference between Nindak's and Gurmukh's.