13Mirch

6 hours ago, jkvlondon said:

my list of usual suspects runs long but for this I could imagine somebody who's name begins with T

Funnily enough some members, on this forum, contend that he has full right to spread such rot because he is a mahapurakh. In New-Zealand he performed an ardass that may all his foes die of the plague. They are still hale and hearty...

5 hours ago, Sukhvirk76 said:

Oh dear. . 

Welcome back troll.

13 minutes ago, jkvlondon said:

my list of usual suspects runs long but for this I could imagine somebody who's name begins with T

After the 'T' you only require 5 more letters and the dark clouds start gathering.

5 minutes ago, MisterrSingh said:

"Oranges from Sachkhand."

Bro, you nearly made tea come out of my nose. 

You want the name of the Baba? Or would you prefer Pandora's chest to remain locked?

4 minutes ago, jkvlondon said:

I think it is our responsibility to highlight and translate the magnum opuses of all these true gurmukh intellectuals and their predecessors rather than relying on dubious modern authors who reframe our history to suit the elites who are afraid of a sikh renaissance ( otherwise why was their first step to shut down our independent printing houses and publishers before the hamla on Amritsar) and building on their work make history courses, ethics courses, politics courses to run throughout our gurdwarey/community centres or if the powers that be interfere there then hire primary school halls after  hours (helps out schools too)

Even the UK based Kashi House can be accused of bias. Academia is non-existent where Sikh socio-politics or religio-politics are concerned.

On 3/6/2017 at 9:01 PM, Akalifauj said:

Read the Hukam Guru Sahib gave him.  Ignorance is bliss.

I never commented on shiva state so keep your deep rooted hate bottled up inside. 

And can you clarify why this comment may be indicative of 'deep rooted hatred?'

42 minutes ago, Sukhvirk76 said:

Your just a troll with nothing to say or contribute

Pretty rich coming from a troll himself. Crawl back under your bridge.

58 minutes ago, Sukhvirk76 said:

Oh please. .

Bro i don't feel remotely challenged.. I'm hungry for you to dish something out for me to chew on

Unfortunately I don't produce any garbage. Try the local dump maybe?

49 minutes ago, Sukhvirk76 said:

Note to self "must try harder".. I think you should fold your hand. . It's a bit lightweight i reckon

Cannot take what you dish out?

5 minutes ago, Sukhvirk76 said:

Yet your bigotry has made you fat!

Says the individual whose imbecility outweighs his obesity. Like all typical keyboard warriors, the classic bigotry card now comes into play.

8 minutes ago, Sukhvirk76 said:

Maybe if you actually had some answers you would be able to engage

I am not in the habit of spoon-feeding fools.

20 minutes ago, Sukhvirk76 said:

Possibly. . but I'm not dyslexic! lol

That is a word filter activated by the admins. I apologise if your limited IQ could not comprehend such a fact. By the way is this you?

17 minutes ago, Sukhvirk76 said:

I may well be the 'sane individual who goes around asking idiotic questions on Facebook'. Sane idiotic questions as opposed idiotic insane statements are preferable I think. . Wouldn't you agree?  Lol

You come across as a particular type of <banned word filter activated> whose questions are only regurgitations.

4 hours ago, Sukhvirk76 said:

You speak around the subject can you please be specific. . What is our Khalsa heritage. . What are the boundaries. .If you would elucidate i would be grateful

4 hours ago, Sukhvirk76 said:

You speak around the subject can you please be specific. . What is our Khalsa heritage. . What are the boundaries. .If you would elucidate i would be grateful

Are you the same individual who goes around asking the most idiotic questions on Facebook?

On 3/10/2017 at 5:46 AM, dallysingh101 said:

I'm gonna dump this incomplete translation here, so I remember to try and finish it one of these days. It's from Kavi Kankan who was purportedly a darbari kavi in dasmesh pita's darbar:

 

ਤਿਨ ਕਾ ਸੁਤ ਗੋਬਿੰਦ ਸਿੰਘ ਸਭ ਗੁਰੂਅਨ ਸਿਰਮੌਰ।

Their [Guru Tegh Bahadur's] son, Gobind Singh the sovereign of all spiritual teachers (gurus)

 

ਜੈਸੇ ਅਵਿਤਾਰਨ ਬਿਖੈ ਕ੍ਰਿਸ਼ਨ ਸਮਾਨ ਨ ਔਰ।।

in the way no other amongst the avtaars is equal to Krishna 

 

 

ਸ੍ਵੈਯਾ - ਪੀਰਨ ਤੇ ਜਿਨ ਪੀਰੀ ਹਰੀ ਲੀਨੀ ਗੁਰਾਈ।

Swaiya - ......... or absorption of the spiritual to spirituality ??

 

 

ਸ਼ਾਹਨਿ ਸੋਂ ਪਤਿਸਾਹੀ ਹਰੀ ਅਰੁ ਮੀਰਨ ਕੀ ਜਿਨ ਮੀਰੀ ਗਵਾਈ।

Who can remove sovereignty from royalty and cause the affluent to lose their affluence.

 

 

ਚਾਰੋਂ ਹੀ ਬਰਨ ਮਿਲਾਯ ਦੀਏ ਜਿਨ ਕਾਹੂੰ ਮੈ ਨਾਂਹਿ ਰਹੀ ਬਿਸਨਾਈ (1) ।

Causing the four castes to mingle, who said they say will not remain Vaisnav

 

ਐਸੋ ਹੀ ਮੇਂ ਗੋਬਿੰਦ ਸਿੰਘ ਅਕਾਲ ਅਕਾਲ ਕੀ ਬਾਣੀ ਜਪਾਈ।

In this way, I Gobind Singh caused the bani of Akaal Akaal to be recited

 

ਸੋਹਤ ਹੈ ਕਲਗੀ ਤਿਹ ਸੀਸ ਪੈ ਹੀਰਨ ਕੀ ਜੜਤੀ ਸੋਂ ਜੜਾਈ।

Adorning a beautiful diamond set aigrette (kalgi) upon the head

 

ਇੰਦਰ ਕੀ ਕਲਗੀ ਹੂੰ ਤੇ ਸੁੰਦਰ ਚੰਦ ਔ ਸੂਰ ਤੇ ਜੋਤਿ ਸਵਾਈ।

More beautiful than the aigrette of Inder, brighter than the light of the sun and moon

 

 

ਮੋਤਿਨ ਮਾਲ ਬਸੈ ਗਰ ਪੈ ਜੈਸੇ ਸ਼ਯਾਮ ਗਰੇ ਬਨ ਮਾਲ (2) ਸੁਹਾਈ।

 

A rosary of pearls upon him like the beautiful garland tied to Shyam's neck

 

ਗੋਬਿੰਦ ਸਿੰਘ ਕਹਾਵਤ ਹੀ ਜਿਨ ਤੀਨ ਹੂੰ ਲੋਕ ਮੈਂ ਕੀਨੀ ਗੁਰਾਈ।।

 

 

 

 

Footnotes:

 

(1)

ਵੈਸ਼ਨਵਪਣਾ, ਵਿਸ਼ਨੂੰ ਉਪਾਸ਼ਕ ਉੱਪਸ਼ਕ ਉੱਚ ਜਾਤੀ ਲੋਕ । ਉੱਚਤਾ । (ਅ) ਬੇ + ਆਸ਼ਨਾਈ = ਨਾ ਮਿਲਵਰਤਣ ।

 

(2)

ਬਨ ਦੇ ਫੁਲਾਂ ਦੀ ਮਾਲਾ ।

I have actually ordered Bindra's transliteration and will receive it in a few days. 

5 hours ago, jkvlondon said:

the problem is people are not familiar of the contemporary accounts of the Guru Sahiban's words on the questions we ask now e.g. why were there blank sections and pages left in Adi Granth by Guru Arjan Dev ji , why Didn't Guru Har Gobind write gurbani or  our ancestors asked these questions and the answers were given by Guru Sahiban at that time  . If people knew those accounts and the detailed history then NO-ONE would question the jyoti jyot concept or even authorship of the Granths 

I personally believe that Sikh institutions (SGPC, Akali-Dal, Dhumma faction Taksal, Balbir Singh faction Budha-Dal and others) have failed in properly propagating the essence of the Sikh ethos. Our modern day pracharks have become gapis who can only talk of Babas dispatching  tsunamis from one corner of the earth to another, or claim that they received oranges from Sachkhand. Such stupidity leaves no room for ithiaasic scrutiny or a proper appreciation/evaluation of Gurbani. That said, Sikh intellectualism has also failed in it's duty. How low have we fallen that even pseudo-scholars like Mcleod, Dahavan and Sian are given more credence than proper heavy weights like Jagjit Singh, Kapur Singh, Daya Singh and so forth. 

14 hours ago, 5akaalsingh said:

Singh-Sabha did both good and bad things. They went quite extreme with reforming, sideling traditional institutions, however some of their changes were the need of time. Whether Sanataanists also criticize it for destroying our art/traditions, I don't care. 

I am aware of the great work done by Tisarpanth. I think more people should start reading the articles. However, the lack of understanding the English they use is an issue.

I guess that's where dictionaries come in and our vocabulary increases.

2 hours ago, Akalifauj said:

Listen to the hukamnama you were given by Guru sahib.  By claiming to such people your religion is false will be speaking in ego because you want to get revenge for they insulted Sikhi.  Best thing you can do is work on yourself.  Know the knowledge and teach it to actually educate others on who Shiva was.  Not to degrade a person.

Two points:

One- He is defending his own beliefs and theirs being different to his, friction is bound to occur. That does not mean that he should crawl into his hole and let the situation escalate.

Two- Shivaji was an Indian monarch and not the God. Clearly this point evades you.

15 hours ago, sikhni777 said:

Keeping all your calm, look them in the eye and ask them if Shivaji would be happy and approve of their behaviour of mocking other people. Ask them to point out a verse from their scriptures with which they can justify their actions. 

Dealing with such people is not achieved by showing them your own religion. Question theirs first.

It is human nature to deal with skeptism some culture which you do not understand. When being mocked - it is important to stand your ground and show your intimidator that they have failed in showing you down and making you feel unimportant. 

Your own scripture should be preached to people who honestly seek an answer from you. When your own beliefs get scorned at - you get hurt even more and eventually if you are not strong enough then you get doubts on your own beliefs eventually. 

Things my brothers have had their juris called in Africa ... include tomatoes, potatoes, what are you hiding in there? 

Girls (Sikh) used to ask my own Sikh sister why she has such long hair. We were all proud of my sisters decision to hide it under keski and eventually she managed to get some respect from these girls. 

Someone questioned me - a Christian as to how I can proove that Guru Nanak Dev Ji rose from the dead as Jesus did and appeared to his disciples. I was only 10 then and could not get an appropriate answer. I knew the meanings of the mool mantra - so I managed to convince them that Sikhs believe in One God. That was their main Christian concern at that time. 

 

Keeping calm is one thing, answering such morons is another. As another veer has pointed out on this thread, Shivaji was nothing more than a vassal of the Pathan principalities and offered his services as a mercenary to Aurangzeb. Only when the Emperor ignored him, did he set about carving out a pan-Hindu niche but even this fell to elitist Brahmins. 

14 hours ago, 5akaalsingh said:

Shivaji was nothing more than a vassal of the Mughals:

"In an ironic twist of faith the Marathas and the Rajputs, who are lauded as the cream of the sub-continent’s military crop by Hindu nationalists, were more or less in cohorts with the Mughals. ‘Only very rarely do we hear of Hindu chieftains seeking to protect Hindus… Rajput chieftains offered no opposition even to temple demolitions by the Mughals…’ (14) The Rajputs were handicapped by three main factors viz. a lack of natural resources (they were mostly desert dwellers) (15), a parochial tendency to concentrate solely upon feudal and dynastic interests (16) and finally their own pecking order. (17) In the aftermath of the Mughal conquest of the sub-continent, the Rajputs were the first to fragment socio-political taboos by offering their females in marriage to Muslim males. (18) At a time when most Hindus despised even the notion of Muslims touching their food, the Rajputs expected their daughters to warm the beds of their Mughal overlords. The main pillars of Mughal administration and security, it is somewhat telling that out Akbar’s 416 military commanders 47 of the most prominent were Rajputs. (19) Whilst Maharana Pratap’s revolt was ongoing, the Rajputs of Marwar, Ambar, Bikaner and Bundi marched against him and played a decisive role in crushing his forces. (20) Their own obdurate interests often collided with any national sentiments they might have possessed and overruled the latter. It is no wonder then that the Rajputs, as a whole, failed to initiate and lead any long-lasting revolution to oust or even break the Mughal grip upon the sub-continent.  

The Marathas, though distinctive in their political acts, were more or less similar to the Rajputs in that that prior to Shivaji they were proud sub-ordinates of the Muslim oppressors. Shivaji’s own father had allied himself with the Southern Pathans during the Karnataka expedition, ‘in which the Hindu religion was ruthlessly put down, lands devastated, shrines desecrated, idols broken, women’s honor violated, and all the accumulated wealth of centuries drained away…’ (21) Though great credit goes to Shivaji for arousing his fellows’ sentiments to counter the pernicious foreigners and their faith, his movement when compared with Banda Singh’s movement falls short in three respects.

1.) The Sikhs rejected Caste and proposed the creation of an egalitarian society. This was an aspect of Banda’s multi-faceted revolution in the Punjab and one which admirably succeeded. In the words of Irvine,‘a low scavenger or leather dresser, the lowest of the low in Indian estimation, had only to leave home and join the Guru (referring to Banda; interjection ours), when in a short time he would return to his birthplace as its ruler with his order of appointment in his hand. As soon as he set foot with the boundaries, the well-born and wealthy went out to greet him and escort him home. Arrived there, they stood with joined palms, awaiting his orders… Not a soul dared to disobey an order, and men who had often risked themselves in battlefields became so cowed down that they were afraid even to remonstrate. Hindus who had not joined the sect were not exempt from this.’ (22) Compare this with Shivaji who according to Basham was, ‘more a restorer of old than… a builder of the new… The Marathas did not encourage reforms in Hindu society, and the India of the 18th century was if anything more conservative than it had been in the days of the first Muslim invasion.’ (23)

Basham’s view is borne out by Shivaji’s own personal correspondence. Whereas Akali Guru Gobind Singh Ji enjoined his Sikhs- among them Banda- to annihilate the very edifices of Caste (24) Shivaji issued a circular edict enjoining, ‘all members of society not to create innovation in Caste practices but follow the traditional path prescribed by the Shastras.’ (25) Furthermore he being a Bhonsle (a tiller of land), Shivaji had to beg ratification from the Brahmins before he could officially declare himself as sovereign. Several Brahmins refused to accede to what they considered as being his ludicrous request before he finally found one willing to enthrone him for a large sum of money. (26) 

2.) Shivaji’s revolt against the Mughals arose more by chance than by design. Whereas the Sikh movement (including Banda’s) was construed to acquire an autonomous Sikh led state, Shivaji initially wanted to be a vassal of the Mughal emperor. His (Shivaji’s father) had been a mercenary in the pay of the triumvirate Pathan principalities of Southern India. (27) Enamoured of his valor, the rulers of these principalities had bequeathed him with several estates. Upon his father’s demise Shivaji succeeded him as the administrator of the aforementioned estates and commenced entertaining notions of his own state. To this end he set out for Delhi and submitted a proposal stating that he, Shivaji, would be more than honored to become a vassal of the Mughals if they recognized his autonomy. (28) Even after his treacherous confinement he would pen a lengthy letter to Raja Jay Singh pledging his life to the Mughals and also swearing an oath to assist them in the conquest of Bijapur. (29) After his escape he would dispatch another lengthy letter to Jay Singh complaining that, ‘the Emperor has cast me off; otherwise I intended to have begged him to allow me to recover Kandhar for him with my own unaided resources.’ (30)  "

-https://tisarpanthdotcom.wordpress.com/2016/06/03/the-stalwarts-revolution/

http://tisarpanth.blogspot.gr/2013/06/the-sikh-influence-on-shivaji-maratha.html

 

One can easily say that let dogs bark and prod on forward like the mighty elephant, but such a mentality will only signal to our detractors that we are weak. The time is now to unite and launch our own intellectual offensive against such pseudo-intellectuals. Tisarpanth is doing just that. Of course there are many who will argue that such articles take an aggressive line, but I feel that without aggressiveness nothing much can be achieved. At least they don't adopt the Sanataan garbage line and slag off the Singh-Sabha all the time.  

1 hour ago, Singh123456777 said:

Actually we both are wrong. I just looked at the picture using zoom and it's written that it's sri Guru ram das Ji maharaj. The person who is putting the tika on guru sahib is sri Guru amar das Sahib Ji.

It might have been Guru Ramdass Ji, my memory is fuzzy but thank you for the clarification.

On 2/26/2017 at 6:26 AM, Singh123456777 said:

The first pic is a pic of Sri Guru gobind singh ji maharaj in his youth( notice the earrings)

Second pic is of Akali Baba Phula Singh(again notice the earrings)

Third pic is of Sri Guru Har Rai Sahib Ji Maharaj(earrings!!!)

Fourth pic is of Sri Guru Tegh Bahadur Ji Maharaj(again earrings!!!)

The next two pictures are of Sri Guru Har Gobind Sahib Maharaj which are in Baba Atal Rai Gurduwara(earrings on most of the Sikhs)

The second to last picture is a picture that somebody made which depicts Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj meeting Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji Maharaj(Notice that Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj is wearing earrings and Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji Maharaj wearing a seli topi which was worn from the 1st Guru up until the 6th Guru)

And the last picture is of Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj(earrings galore!!)

Some of these pics are contemporary pics that were made at the times of the gurus such as the Sri Guru Har Rai Sahib Ji Maharaj picture.

All the credit goes to Bhagat Singh artist who found this information

Satpal Singh, a connoisseur of such art, informed me that the sixth picture is one of Guru Arjan Dev Ji. This was a few years back...