13Mirch

I came across this website which states that Sikh Gurus believe in Vedas. I cannot find the interpretations of the shabads in relation to it's comments.

http://agniveer.com/sikh-gurus-and-vedas/

On the other hand I came across this booklet which says Sikh Gurus did not believe in Vedas.

http://agniveer.com/sikh-gurus-and-vedas/

Can anyone explain what Guru Sahibaans take on Vedas was and why there are pro-Veda shabds and anti-Veda shabds in Gurbani? And how would you refute someone saying Sikh is a branch of Vedic dharam?

Look muslims themselves (not all) give a bad name to their prophet. This was expected as far back after 9/11. The need now is to leave them to their own instruments to deal with this and not interfere in their matter. Other than that for clearing up public dilemmas Sikh community should announce they stand against any film making fun of or insulting any religious, cultural or national sentiments.

The big problem as I see it I might be totally wrong, is that more than one person attacks us. There is no united body for us willing to answer back. The attacks frequently occur online. One person cannot do as much as lets say three groups dedicated to fighting religious attacks. These groups can themselves be divided into Gurbani, explaining Gurbani etc. History and scouts who find the anti-Sikh material.

Second problem is that after 1984 many Sikhs have this anti-Hindu mentality. Lets not get in discussion about Khalistan here but even Dr. Subraniam Swami and A.R. Darshi have praised Sant Jarnail Singh's assistance of Hindus. However many of the youngsters today are aware of Hinduvata attacks on Sikhi but slagger of anti-Hinduism. If we can take out that mentality and convince Hindus Sikhs are different from them then prachar can be effective.

Look at the Singh Sabha movement, Hinduvata has targeted itand is foul-mouthing it but it shows their fear of a second Singh-Sabha movement. Many Hindus became Sikhs due to that.

Punjabi culture also places emphasis on treating women with respect and being a man in a true sense! What the hell has Honey done to promote this? The usual 'I am a jatt bla bla bla' stuff Punjabi singers seem to be coming up with nowdays?

There we go again and anti-panthic forces will exploit this split.

How do we get our shaheeds back? How do we tell the truth that Baba Banda Singh Ji and Haqiqat Singh Ji were Sikhs and not Hindus. What historical sources and arguments can we use? I don't know about others but personally I am tired of Hindus (not that I have anything against them, mind you) saying Banda Singh Bahadur Ji and Haqiqat Singh Ji were Hindus originally and Khalistanis are flasifying facts and calling them Sikhs. Ideas anyone?

I believe we should all help brother Bijla Ji.

I agree but there are more. Just recently on this page on facebook https://www.facebook.com/pages/If-you-think-Jarnail-Singh-was-a-terrorist-Watch-Out/207912502659177 I saw a Sikh being called daft. He did not reply back in the hate-mongers vein but this leaves me wondering. These anti- Khalistanis and pro-Hinduvata tyrants have sources, falsified or real to back them up while our brothers have noting to support them. Their knowledge is gained from books or what they understand themselves. And whats more we are daft if we try clearing up the mess these hate-mongers make.

What does Sikhi say about evolution. Many faiths disagree with it but what about others. Do we believe God did evolution and if so then is it right to say it happens due to natural selection? Wouldn't it be an artificial selection of sorts? Can I also have quotes from Gurbani. Thank you.

Can anyone provide the exact page number etc.

This guy was here under another name once before but brother Paneer Monster had him running away. It was the same argument. Even the words "Sikh Bible."

Can anyone please tell me where in Dasam Bani it says the following:

Raj bina neh Dharam chale hain

Dharam bina sab dale male hain

These points with which they attack are always the same, sometimes however (I am sorry admin please filter out the dirty words) they involve foul language as well. Here is the new type of argument promoted amongst the Hindu youth:

...Bai aa main post pa reha jo k minu ek member ne messge kita hai... Main bahut soachya k es nu publish kara ya naa per munu lagda k jo v fact ne oh bahar aaune e chahide ne. meri sariya nu request hai k hun dimag naal soachna zaroor.

"Admin bai aa msg apni wall te post jaroor kari. aa sab likh main kise dharm di insult nai kar reha main bus ohna kush fukre loka nu jawab de reha jo hamesha apne sikh dharm nu te sikha nu bahut bahuder samjde han te baki dharma nu weak samjde han."

(1) Jado Guru Arjun dev nu tatti tavi te jala k mariya c muslims ne ta ohdo aa bahuder sikh kithe san?.

(2) Guru Teg Bahuder da jado sar kalam kar ditta share aam chandni chonk ch ta os time koi bahadur sikh gharo bahar kyun nai aya?

(3) Guru Gobind singh nu ek pathan ne chakoo mar k jakhmi kar ditta te baad ch ohna di death ho gyi, os time bahadur sikha ne ki kar liya?

(4) Banda singh bahuder da mu kala kar k khote te bitha k os delhi ch jaloos kadya gya te koi bauder sikh lagge nai lagga.

(5) sarhand de navab ne Chote sahib jadiya nu mar ditta ta bahuder sikha ne ki bahudri dikhai. Guru Gobins singh ta apne bachya nu e nai bacha sake..

(6) Guru Gobind singh ne v last vich aurangzeb naal miterta di sandhi kar lai te aurangzeb ne ohna nu naded vich kheti karn lai zameen diti jithe k last vich kheti karde karde ohna da aakhri din gujre.

(7) Jado Ahemad shah abdali te lahor te attack kita ta aa sikh missla vale ta jungle ch paj gye te abdali ne lahor te amritsar nu rajj k lutiya.

(8) Jado Abdali ne darbar sahib nu tod ditta te sarover nu mitti te gand naal bhar ditta odo v aa bahuder sikh jungle cho bahar nai aye.

(9) Jado Darbar sahib nu todan di khabar Maratha fauj nu laggi ta ohna kasam khadi k abdali nu ode ghar chad k auna. Phir Maratha fauj ne punjab val kooch kar ditta jado maratha fauj amritsar lagge aagyi ta sikh v jungla cho bahar aa gye te maratha fauj naal mil gye jithe k ohna ne abdali di fauj nu lut liya te lahor te amritsar to chukiya sikh, hindu te muslim aurta nu chudwaya.(Per aa fukre sikh kehnde k ehna ne hindu aurta nu chudvaya c.. saliyo jado abdali aya odo ta jungle ch paj gye c)

(10) Maratha fauj ne afghnistan de king nu hara k os to rangdari vasoolni shuru kar diti. Afganistan da kingh ena weak ho gya k baad vich jado hari singh nalue ne multan te attack kita ta oh kuch nai kar sakiya (per aa fukre sikh kehnde k sirf sikha ne he afganistan nu jitya... saliyo ohna nu ta pehla he Maratha fauj ne mitti ch mila rakhya c)

(11) Phir Jado sare India te british kabja kar rahe c ta ohna kings di help karn di bajaye maharaja ranjit singh ne british naal miterta di sandhi kar lai. te aa fukre sikh kehnde british di himat nai hoi sikha naal ladi karn di.(saliyo oh ta hindu rajiya ne britishers de agge chukan to mana kar diti c per ranjit singh ne ta miterta di sandhi kar lai britishers naal)

(12) Maharaja ranjit singh di maut to baad naal e britishers ne punjab te attack kar k os nu v british raaj da hissa bana liya ta eh bahuder sikh odo kithe gye c.

(13) 1857 di ladai ch jado sare kinghs britishers de khilaf lade ta sirf sikh fauj he britishers de val c.

(14) World war 1 and world 2 ch lakha sikh british fauj ch bharti ho k ladan chale gye.

(15) kehnde k sikha ne sab to vadd bharat di azadi lai kurbaniya dittiya.. " Aa sirf sikh he kehnde ne kyun k sachai eh hai k ehna ne vich sare he sikha nu shamal kar liya jina nu britishers ne saja diti che oh gurudwara act ch saja mili hove ya hor chote mote cases vich. Per aa fukri marno nai hat de.

(16) Gaddar Parti lai v aa rola paunde aa k sikha ne banai.. saliyo oh ta hindu ne banayi c jis da naam Lala hardiyal c.

(17) Bhagat singh de naam te bada kehnde k oh sikh c per odi likhi hoi book j kar eh read kar lain ta mu chupan lai kapda na mile ehna nu " Os ne likhua k meri family ariya samaj naal sabandit hai te minu God vich bilkul vishwas nai te khas kar k sikh riti riwaza vich. AA sab lihya os ne apni book "Why I am atheist" vich)

(18) Phir 1984 vich aa bahuder sikh darbar sahib ch luk k baith gye hathyara naal. Per Govt ne phir gaddi chada ditte.

(19) Phir aa bhinderwala raula paunda c k 5000 hindu vadne 1 ghante ch oh ta nai hoya per delhi ch 1 din ch 3000 sikh vadiya gya te darbar sahib ch blue star operation ch 5-6 ghante ch 1000 sikh vadiya gya te aje tak rola paunde k sikha nu insaaf nai miliya.. "Bai bahuder kaum kadi insaaf mangdi nai oh insaaf dendi aa)

(20) Poori duniya vich sirf ek Punjab he ajehi jagha hai jithe terrorism aya te Khatam ho gya.. es to pata lagda k sikh kine ku bahuder ne..hahahaha

(21) France ch ena nu pagg banan di izazat nai... itlay ch v case haar gye.. India ch sab kuch milda per phir v india nu e gaala kad de ne..

"...Hun minu daso k sikha di poori history ch chitter e khade ena ne. Per History gavah hai k ena diya fukriya nai mukdiya..."

Admin sikh ek eho ji kaum hai jo hamesha apne aap nu praise kardi rehndi hai. ehna di koi nai sunda eh apne aap nu sher kehnde, king kehnde. sale fudu lok.

How about u clear that up a bit more my friend so I can understand u.

But there are copies somewhere, first saroop of Guru maharaj also had copies, so somewhere there is something we can use. It is only a matter of finding it. Didn't u guys hear about that Saroop stolen by the army in '84 which recently surfaced on the Indian black market and Sikhs brought it? Police also were involved in arresting the guilty parties and it turned out they had received it from a soldier. But what about second part evidence?

I have recently completed filming a movie for school, on the Kirpan. The movie is going to be 15 minutes in length and is documentary style. As I am the only Sikh in the school I decided that highlighting the importance of the Kirpan to the white people will be important. The idea was warmly received by my classmates and teachers. In the editing stage subtitles will be added to the movie in English. But I have run into 4 problems.

1.) I need footage, an establishing shot, of Darbar Sahib in India showing Sikhs wearing Kirpan. These Sikhs can be anyone from sevadars to Granthis to devotees.

2.) I need footage, extremely good footage, of Sikhs playing gatka with real shastars. Please avoid providing any footage with Sikhs dressed in Western style clothing.

3.) I need good army or military music to go with my movie.

4.) I need footage of Puratan Singhs fighting with swords and a picture of Guru Hargobind Sahib Ji with his two kirpans and Guru Gobind Singh Ji asking for a head to create the Khalsa.

Can anyone tell me where I can acquire the above from for free please? Once my movie is finished I will upload it onto Youtube and provide links. Thank you very much.

If we can gain access to books like Panth Praksah maybe these misconceptions can be cleared up. If I remember correctly Banda Singh Ji wrote a letter while in Lohgarh fort in which he states how he became a Sikh. Where is this letter kept today?

Personally I believe he will not live up to his promise on deleting the blog.

The author of these "Khalistani Myths" ultimately fails in providing any refutations, if anything a sensible and educated person sees him to be a commen vagrant and a cheap person. He has provided no proof whatsoever to his claims. Are his claims backed up by any specific facts from the Indian state? I don't think so.

http://b484.wordpress.com/author/b484/

Please forgive me my brothers for my forgetfulness. I fully forgot about this topic. Bijla Singh Ji marvellous and thank you. I do not understand why Sikhs are intentionally or unintentionally being asserted as cowards by these people. Again thank you very much. I have used your rebuttals and they have also answered many of my questions. Sir if you need any help info wise etc. I am willing to help. To everyone else thank you for your criticism and support. If we have more Sikhs like you then we cannot be brought down. Again I beg forgiveness from you all concerning my memory lapse. And above all thank you to Bijla Singh and Waheguru for providing us with such a brother.

I tend to find that this caste thing in Sikhi is a retaliatory action of sorts. A stupid singer sings "Jattan de putt" and next day u get a "Chamara de putt."

How does Gurbani define manmukh, Gurmukh. Are other religions full of manmukhs? What happens to their adherents when they die? Can their prophets be considered as their Gurus?

I know that veer ji but how would you convince someone at face value with evidence. For all I know agnivver might strike back so I want full pangtis.

I am sorry but I am derieved of the knowledge of Gurmukhi.

I think this agniveer website is against Sikhs, Can anyone please provide me with the real translations of these shabads, I think they are deliberately misinterpreting them:

1. God created Vedas (Onkaar ved nirmaye- Rag Ramkali Mahla 1 Onkar Shabd 1)

2. With order of God Vedas were created so that humans can decide what is virtue and sin (Hari aagya hoye Ved paap punya vichaariya- Maru Dakhne Mahla 5 Shabd 17)

3. No one can value the importance of Rigveda, Yajurveda, Samveda and Atharvaveda (Sam Ved, Rig, Yajur, Atharvan brahme mukh maaiya hai traigun, taakee keemat kah na sakai ko….- Marusolahe Mahla 1 Shabd 17)

4. God created day, night, forests, greenery, water and 4 Vedas that are like 4 treasures (Chaar Ved chaare khaani- Rag Maru Mahla 5 Shabd 17)

5. How can glory of Vedas be stated whose knowledge is without end (Ved vakhaan kahahi ik kahiye, oh ve ant ant kin lahiye- Vasant Ashtapadiyan Mahla 1.3)

6. Of the infinite texts, Vedas are the best (Asankh granth mukhi Ved paath- Japuji 17)

7. All the Shastras, Vedas and ancient texts describe the Supreme Lord (Smriti sastra Ved puraan paar brahm ka karahi vakhiyaan- Gaund Mahla 5 Shabd 17)

8. Noble persons elucidate the glory of Vedas but unfortunate people do not understand (Ved bakhiyaan karat saadhujan bhaagheen samjhat nahi khalu- Todi Mahla 5 Shabd 26)

9. Study of Vedas enhances knowledge by blessings of God (Kahant Veda gunant guniya…- Sahaskriti Mahla 5.14)

10. Analysis of Vedas, Shastras and ancient texts enriches the entire family and makes them lucky (Ved puran saasatr vichaaram…. badbhaagi Naanak ko taaram- Gatha Mahla 5.20)

11. Vedas describe the glory of one God (Kal mein ek naam kripaanidhi … ih vidhi Ved bataavai- Rag Sortha Mahla 9 Shabd 5)

12. Do not say that Vedas are false. False are those people who do not analyze (Ved katev kahahu mat jhoothe jhootha jo na vichaare- Rag Prabhati Kabirji Shabd 3)

13. Those who studied Vedas were called Vedis. They initiated noble virtuous acts. Listening to Rigveda, Samveda, Yajurveda and Atharveda destroyed all sins. (Jinai Ved padhyo suvedi kahaaye… Padhe Sam Vedam Yajur Ved Kattham Rigam Ved paathayam kare bhaav hattham… Atharav Ved pathayam suniyo paap nathiyam…- Dasham Guru Granth Sahib Vichitra Natak Adhyaya 4)

To check more examples of glory of Vedas in Guru Granth Sahib refer the following:

14. Chauth upaaye chaare Veda- Rag Bilawal Mahla 1 Thiti

15. Chache chaar Ved jin saaje chaare khani chaar juga- Rag Asa Mahla 1 Pati Likhi Shabd 9

16. Oordh mool jis saakh talaaha chaar Ved jit laage- Gujri Ashtapadiyan Mahla 1.1

17. Chare Ved hoye sachiyaar- Asadi // Mahla 1 // 13

18. Chaturved mukh vachni uchre- Rag Gaudi Mahla 5 Shabd 164

19. Chaturved pooran hari naai Ramkali Mahla 5 Shabd 17

20. Chaar pukaarahi na tu maane Ramkali Mahla 5 Shabd 12

21. Chaar Ved jihwa bhane- Rag Sarang Mahla 5 Shabd 131

22. Brahme ditte Ved Rag Malar // Mahla 2 // 3

23. Chaare Ved Brahme kau diye padh padh kare vichari- Rag Asa Mahla 3 Shabd 22

24. Chaare Ved Brahme np furmaayia- Maaru Solahe 3.22

25. Chaare deeve chahu hath diye eka eki vaari- Vasant Hindol 1.1

26. Vedu pukaare vaachiye vaani brahm biaas- Shreeraag Ashtpadiyan 1.7

27. Vedan ganh bole sach koi- Maajh Vaar Mahla 1 Vaar 12

28. Deeva jale andhera jaai Ved paath mati paapan khaai- Raag Suhi

29. Ved pukaarai punn paap surag narak ka veeu- Raag Saarang Vaar 1.16

30. Gurumukhi parche Ved vichari- Raag Ramkali Sidh Gosht Shabd 28

31. Puchhahu Ved pandatiyaan muthi vin maane- Rag Maaru Ashtpadiyan 1.6

32. Man hath kine na paaiyo puchhahu Vedaam jaai- Shri Raag Vaar 3.10

33. Smriti saasat Ved vakhaanai bharmai bhoola tat na jaanai- Rag Maajh Ashtpadiyan 3.18

34. Veda mahi naam uttam so- Rag Ramkali Mahla 3 Aanand 19

35. Hari jeeu ahankaar n bhaavai Ved kook sunaavahi- Rag Maaru 3.9

36. Jugi jugi aapo aapna dharm hai sodh dekhahu Ved puraan- Rag Vilaaval 3.4

37. Saasat Ved puraan pukaarahi dharam karahu shat karam dradaiya- Vilaaval Mahla 4.2

38. Naanak vichaarahi sant jan chaar Ved kahande- Rag Gaudi Vaar 4.12

39. Vaani brahm Ved dharam dradahu paap tajaaiya bal raam jeeu- Suhi Chhant 4.2

40. Das ath chaar Ved sabh poochhahu jan naanak naam chhudaai jeeu- Maaru 4.8

41. Smrat saasat Ved vakhaane jog gyaansidh sukh jaane- Rag Gaudi 5.111

42. Ved puraan smrat bhane- Gaudi 5.144

43. Saasat smrat Ved vichaare mahaapurushan iu kahiya- Rag Gaudi 5.162

44. Ved saasat jan pukaarahi sunai nahi dora- Rag Aasa 5.152

45. Saasat Ved smriti sabhi….- Gujri 5.2

46. Chaar pukaarahi na tu maanahi- Ramkali 5.12

47. Kahant Veda gunant guniya- Salok sahaskriti Mahla 5.14

48. Ved puraan saasatr vichaaram- Gatha Mahla 5.20

49. Ved puraan saadh sang- Rag Gaudi 9.6

50. Ved puraan padhai ko ih gun simre hari ko naama- Rag Gaudi 9.7

51. Ved puraan jaas gun gaavat taako naam hiye mein dhar re- Gaudi 9.9

52. Ved puraan smriti ke mat sun nimash na hiye vasaavai- Rag Sorath 9.7