13Mirch
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Posts posted by 13Mirch
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22 hours ago, AjeetSinghPunjabi said:
You seem to have a condescending tone in regards to the vedas.
Vedas like SGGS, have multiple authors, perhaps even more so than SGGS and were written in a timeframe of thousands of years. So I hold those scripture in reverence , although I only hold SGGS as my guru and guide . Vedas are also incredibly hard to understand , especially the rigveda whose earliest verses date to around 2500 BC or earlier and latest date to maybe 500 BC. The other 3 vedas probably evolved side by side . Lets not forget veda (literally . knowledge) was just one in the beginning until it was split into 4 by Rishi Ved Vyaas for public welfare, as the ocean of gyaan was increasing as rishis kept contributing more and more sanskrit verses, and also it wasn't written. They were transmitted orally for a long long time.
4 Vedas :
1) Rig Veda (rik means 'praise')
2) Yajur Veda (Yajus means 'prose')
3) Saam Veda (Saam means 'poetry' or song). This is where the Sargam of sa re ga ma pa originate from. Our gurmeet sangeet too originates here.
4) Atharva veda , written by Atharvan and Angiras rishi , this is a later addition .
"Bed kateb kaho mat jhuthe , jhutha jo na bichaare" (SGGS)
Do not say the vedas or the semitic books are false, false are they who don't reflect on them.
4 layer of each veda :
1) Sanhita (literally means 'compilation'. This are the sections where one finds invocations towards elements of nature. Agni, vayu, indra, etc )
2) Brahmana (this is ritual about how to worship things mentioned in layer above)
3) Aranya (literally. 'forest' . This is a little more philosophical)
4) Upanishads also known as "Vedant" (end of vedas). This is where we find the soul of india. All philosophical matters and very little ritualistic is what defines this layer. There are 108 upanishads embedded in 4 vedas. (think of it like how Sukhmani sahib is embedded inside SGGS), although 10 or 13 are the main ones .
All the concepts we take for granted such as karam, dharam , rebirth we take for granted originated in the final 'upanishadic' layer of vedas (last of the 4 layer of each veda).
I have tried reading few of the ten mukhya upanishads in translation , and they're incredibly hard to understand at times, as it uses a LOT of metaphors .
But at times it comes really close to gurbani and this is the only part I truly love, the part of pure monotheism / panentheism/ monism and that of absolute power of waheguru ji , known in vedas as "Brahm" or "parbrahm"
I really couldn't give a sparrow's fart regarding your personal views; however given your tendency, on this forum, to misconstrue just about anything I highlight to you that my rhetoric was taken straight out of Hindu fascism's textbook i.e. everything is vedic as is being promulgated by the RSS.
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15 hours ago, Jacfsing2 said:
So are the original Vedas different from the 4 Vedas that people read today?
Given that Hinduism was never a monolithic bloc, yes that is a plausibility; one also needs to take into account that men like Dayanand Saraswati, inspired by European homogeneity, could have changed many definitions and terms.
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On 10/10/2017 at 2:43 AM, Gajj567 said:
"Recently India has seen enormous news on UFO contacts and secret UFO bases in the Himalayas near the Chinese bases. In Ladakh, for example, the locals clearly point out the everyday phenomenon of large triangular space crafts coming out below the ground and Indian security forces protecting them."
http://twofeed.org/2017/10/09/india-will-first-country-explain-world-aliens-contacts/
New Delhi is in the middle of a big secret internal debate. On one side the largest democracy of the world is eager to explain to its citizens and to the world about the ongoing contacts with the UFOs and extraterrestrials. On the other hand, there are invisible untold international protocols that prohibit doing anything that may cause worldwide fear and panic.
It is well accepted between the UFO and extra-terrestrial experts that all the five nuclear powers are in contact with the beings from other stars for quite some time. Recently India has seen enormous news on UFO contacts and secret UFO bases in the Himalayas near the Chinese bases. In Ladakh, for example, the locals clearly point out the everyday phenomenon of large triangular space crafts coming out below the ground and Indian security forces protecting them.
Military officials and politicians have confessed the fact that India has been contacted. India has been told the rules of the Universe.
The current debate is whether to keep it secret like other countries are doing or in the tradition of a totally transparent society come out and tell the truth. India is so open and democratic; it is very difficult to keep a secret for long. The biggest concern of the Government today is that unlike in other countries, it will be very difficult to keep it secret for long. If the information comes out through unofficial channels first and then the authorities are pressed against the wall to confess, two bad things can happen. First, it can really cause a panic in the country as well as the world. Second, the way the Indian politics is run, the ruling party will be thrown out of power in no time it is ever found that the Government withheld such information from the public.
Let me guess, these secrets were already in the Vedas and "eye-opening" gulps of gau mutra?
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36 minutes ago, YOYO29 said:
Well whatever little bit i read about pre islamic arabs in ahadith it says that female infanticide existed in pre islamic arabia.I remeber reading one incident where a man came to prophet and described how he buried his daughter alive this incident was described with such detail that prophet started crying.While reading this incident myself it brought me to tears. I don't remember in which book this incident was written but u can google.
Was it Sunni, Shia, Ibadali?
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32 minutes ago, YOYO29 said:
read pre islamic history .Arabs also have patriarchal mindset like Indians.they were worried that if they have daughter then one day they have to call someone son in law.For some it was embarrassing.Now it does not mean that everyone was killing female child but there was this mentality among people and some people killed their daughters.
I have read pre-Islamic history and that's why I am stating what I am.
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On 9/29/2017 at 6:35 AM, Kira said:Well what do you expect from this guy? He's a "doctor" but has the intelligence of a small ape. Which is ironic as he doesn't believe in evolution.
Ape is a compliment to him, I would downgrade to something more minuscule and worthless.
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9 hours ago, TigerForce1 said:
The most credible Sikh in politics today! Onto to the next phase for sure.
Vigilance is required. A Hindu fanatic has entered politics in New-Zealand in tow with a populist party; Hindus in Canada already oppose Singh. Sikhs, globally, need to exercise more scrutiny or Hindu fascism might hit them in the West.
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10 hours ago, YOYO29 said:NO secret.They believe Allah gave two hands and one mouth to feed.There is also a verse in Quran which says don't kill your child because Allah will will provide for them as HE has provided for you.Though intention behind writing this verse was good,in those days Arabs killed their daughters.So Prophet wrote this verse to dissuade them from this practice but now this verse is misused by mullahs.
Are you sure? Arabs, by no means, treat or have treated their women as humans but in Mo's era women were valued-albeit akin to livestock- because they could be used to breed more rabid cretins for the self-proclaiming Prophet.
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4 minutes ago, proactive said:
Good points but I don't understand why you refer to BoS as lovey dovey approach.
My own opinion- I always expect them to bow down at the end of their debates.
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Just now, proactive said:
Those were different times. The vast majority of Sikhs still had their heads in the sand about the issues that SP were dealing with. Now the issue of grooming is out in the public sphere no doubt the liberals are doing their level best to push it under the carpet again but that's not going to happen. Look at the work of SAS, they are admired even by non-Sikhs for the hard work they have been doing all these years. We shouldn't expect every Sikh to support us but as long as enough do then we are winning. The youth need to get involved in the Gurdwaras otherwise they will always be working from a position of weakness. Run the Gurdwara and yours is no longer the contrarian opinion.
Set up a three pronged body:
-Administrative/ Coordinative.
-Defence (physical and literal).
-Media, to counter all forms of anti-Sikh sentiment and not the lovey-dovey Basics of Sikhi approach.
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1 minute ago, proactive said:
We need to get rid of the bleeding heart liberals from their positions of power. If the Gurdwara committee is full of these fools then get like minded youth together and take over that Gurdwara through the electoral process. A start has to be made and just as we fight the enemies without we have to also fight the enemies within.
Remember what happened to Sher-e-Punjab back in the day?
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2 minutes ago, proactive said:I'm sure you're not here to indulge in flame wars. Can you delete your post and lets move on. Discuss the issue and how we can resolve it rather than making it personal. I am sure both of you hate what these Muslim dawah people are doing but making personal attacks isn't going to help deal with the issue.
How to deal with Da'wah crews? Expose the veneer of peaceful Islam which they hide behind but like always, our bleeding heart liberals will extinguish our efforts because their daughters prefer "cut" men.
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11 minutes ago, proactive said:This is just going to turn into a flame war and anything productive you have written will be lost. I think the other poster didn't like your reference to Sikh males as thin and fudhu. Just edit your posts and delete the swearing and move on.
His sweeping generalisation earned him the rebuke. Otherwise I have no problem with who he sleeps with. Secondly, if he wants he can have my address and come see how my wife and I live on a day-to-day basis and whether any violence occurs within us.
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40 minutes ago, AjeetSinghPunjabi said:
HEY DON'T FORCE ME TO USE BAD WORDS AGAINST YOU OK !
(Yes I am shouting)
My post had nothing to do with me being different. Sikhs need to stop playing this bullsh*t "gay card".
Putting down the vulnerable section of society isn't going to help your cause one bit , NOT A SINGLE BIT !
so keep that crap to yourself. I ain't interested. Go show your rage where its required, if you guys get time out from gurudwara fightings and fake display of wealth that is !
Show your mardanagi where its required . Sikhs have the lowest birth rates in india of all communities .
No wonder even your women know you're all a bunch of clowns, and prefer to marry with saner options.
Ahh the classic wrath of the Gods. Does the truth bite?
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6 minutes ago, AjeetSinghPunjabi said:Why blame muslims when most singhs are fuddu and thin , and no way strong compared to past singhs, and the ones who have any semblance to older stronger sikhs are too ego-ridden to come forward to help.
Sikh men already have odds stacked against them as sikhi appearance is spread as "unattractive" by modern media and film industry.
On the contrary , muslim men are all groomed. No wonder our girls fall so easily . Which girl won't want a good looking man ? and when she doesn't see so in her own community, she rushes to another.
Classic commentary from the forum's own homosexual.
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21 hours ago, jkvlondon said:
actually this argument didn't originate from Da'wah gangs not that smart but lifted from the Christian missionary playbook, I have heard it from them quite a few years earlier , no doubt helped by the traitorous punjabis who still keep singh as surname and wear turbans although christian.
Whatever the origin, the argument has been exposed as being flawed owing to it's root in fallacious twisting of Sikh sources and philosophy.
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22 hours ago, KhoonKaBadlaKhoon said:
Doesn't work like that, no Western govt is going to deport someone because he hurts the feelings of some Sikhs. Its like Ron saying to deport Pro Khalistanis back to Punjab so they can fight for it there, cause we hurt his feelings.
He is a lone loser, with 0 power. He has been discredited. Counter him where need be, that's it. Freedom of speech.
Deportation, wishful thinking on my part. I wonder how his parents got into Canada; the typical 'India is a <banned word filter activated> hole and does not recognize my talents...' excuse?
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On 9/3/2017 at 11:04 PM, superkaur said:
The whole article, seems like quite a studied and detailed response. So was wondering what the sources of it was.
Learn Sikhi and Tisarpanth from what I understand.
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There is another one in NZ, a Mahesh Bindra who is a Member of Parliament for a local populist party. Recently they attempted to have the Kirpan banned.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11903955
Local Hindus have opposed Winston's rhetoric, but how long before birds of feather start flocking together? Bindra, after all, is a member of the RSS; an Indian weekly openly published this fact after verifying it with him.
Banerjee, on the other hand, is a born clown who was derived of parental attention because he wasn't planned. See:
Anti-Sikh extremists, whatever their credo, should be deported back to the abyss for which they are crusading.
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14 hours ago, superkaur said:
Who wrote this article? got a link to it?
The Islamic fallacy or the response?
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What I find intriguing is the rapid shift in Da'wah strategy being employed by Muslims. In my experience whereas before they were attempting to exonerate Islam from the accusations being hurled at it, they are now attempting to contend that all faiths have a similar strain of elitism (for a better want want of expression) as is found in Islam. I acquired the following from a social media group where a Muslim attempted to argue that akin to Kafir and Muslim, Sikhs have the Gurmukh-Manmukh disparity.
'Given the "grooming" phenomena which is prevalent in the Pakistani Community (though all communities have their fair share of devils) we are not surprised that in order to exonerate their faith, from the negative attention it continually receives, some Muslims feel justified in disseminating fallacious propaganda regarding other faiths. Below are some new absurdities which a Da'wah group has come up with in order to contend that equal to Islam's "Conformist-Infidel" dichotomy is Sikhi's "Gurmukh-Manmukh" principle. Is this verifiable in light of the "evidence" which they have provided? Or is there more to the latter than meets the eye? Let us scrutinize the matter closely.
The central thesis of this absurd, and somewhat humorous, contention is that "Gurmukh" (Guru-oriented) evolved into a more narrow term after the first Nanak rendering non-Sikhs "Manmukhs" Ipso facto.
Point 1: Cherry-Picking Shabads to substantiate their fallacies.
Bhai Gurdas's Vaar 5, Pauri 7 (of 21) is quoted to the effect:
"Without the Guru's Shabad and sadh-sangat even good persons find no liberation."
On a Prima facie basis, Bhai Gurdas seems to be implying that a non-Sikh who is righteous is doomed to spiritual damnation because they are not a Sikh. The proselytizer desperately needs to do this in order to exonerate his/her faith and instead direct the stigma towards Sikhi. Let us, however, scrutinize the full vaar and comprehend it in it's proper context:
"ਜਤ ਸਤ ਸੰਜਮ ਹੋਮ ਜਗ ਜਪੁ ਤਪੁ ਦਾਨ ਪੁੰਨ ਬਹੁਤੇਰੇ।
Hypocrisy by and large enters into the praxis of continence, burnt offerings, feasts, penances and gifts.
ਰਿਧਿ ਸਿਧਿ ਨਿਧਿ ਪਾਖੰਡ ਬਹੁ ਤੰਤ੍ਰ ਮੰਤ੍ਰ ਨਾਟਕ ਅਗਲੇਰੇ।
Incantations and spells ultimately turn out to be hypocritical plays.
ਵੀਰਾਰਾਧਣ ਜੋਗਣੀ ਮੜ੍ਹੀ ਮਸਾਣ ਵਿਡਾਣ ਘਨੇਰੇ।
The worship of the fifty-two heroes, of the eight yoginis of cemeteries and of places of cremation leads to whopping dissimulation.
ਪੂਰਕ ਕੁੰਭਕ ਰੇਚਕਾ ਨਿਵਲੀ ਕਰਮ ਭੁਇਅੰਗਮ ਘੇਰੇ।
People are obsessed with the pranayam exercises of the inhalation, suspension of breath, the exhalation, the niolr feat and straightening of kundalini the serpent power.
ਸਿਧਾਸਣ ਪਰਚੇ ਘਣੇ ਹਠ ਨਿਗ੍ਰਹ ਕਉਤਕ ਲਖ ਹੇਰੇ।
Many employ themselves in sitting in the siddhasanas and thus we have seen them seeking myriad miracles.
ਪਾਰਸ ਮਣੀ ਰਸਾਇਣਾ ਕਰਾਮਾਤ ਕਾਲਖ ਆਨ੍ਹੇਰੇ।
The belief in the philospher's stone, the jewel in the serpent's head and the miracle of life immortalising elixir are nothing but the darkness of ignorance.
ਪੂਜਾ ਵਰਤ ਉਪਾਰਣੇ ਵਰ ਸਰਾਪ ਸਿਵ ਸਕਤਿ ਲਵੇਰੇ।
People are engaged in the worship of idols of gods and goddesses, in fasting, uttering and giving blessings and curses.
ਸਾਧਸੰਗਤਿ ਗੁਰ ਸਬਦ ਵਿਣੁ ਥਾਉ ਨ ਪਾਇਨਿ ਭਲੇ ਭਲੇਰੇ।
But without the holy congregation of the saints and the recitation of the Guru- sabad even the very good person cannot find acceptance.
ਕੂੜ ਇਕ ਗੰਢੀ ਸਉ ਫੇਰੇ ॥੭॥
The superstitions bind themselves with a hundred knots of falsehood."
-(Vaaran Bhai Gurdas, Vaar 5, Pauri 7/21).
In light of the above it emerges that the Bhai is not downplaying the concept of righteous non-Sikhs. Rather, he is satirizing society's perception of a "good person." Performing ostentatious acts of worship and charity are futile if one, clandestinely, engages in vice over and over again. If one is impure from within ('Jeoh Maile Baroh Nirmal-' Anand Sahib), outward purity is rendered hollow in the Divine Court. The Bhai's derision of such "good people" is made evident at the end when he declares (all thanks to the Da'wah crew for providing such an acute translation):
"Without the Guru's Shabad and sadh-sangat even good persons find no liberation..."
Is this in any way different from what Guru Nanak declares in his Bani?
"Make compassion thy cotton, contentment thy thread, modesty thy knot and truth the twist.
This is the sacred thread of the soul; if one be in your possession then put it around me.
It breaketh not, filth soils it not, fire burns it not, it is not misplaced."
-(Asa Ki Vaar, SGGS, Ang. 471).
By attempting to play on limited knowledge, the proselytizer desires to twist the Guru's word and substitute it with their own falsehoods.
Point 2: Distortion of Gurbani and Sikh history.
In an attempt to "evidence" that the first Nanak's teachings were different from his successors' the proselytizer asserts that as time progressed, "Gurmukh" became a more narrower term for each successive generation of Sikhs. Let us divide this section into sub-sections for ease of comprehension.
A.) It is asserted that Guru Nanak Dev Ji never emphasized upon the need for obtaining a Guru, vis-a-vis liberation, and later Gurus construed this principle in order to establish the equivalent of "Kafir-non Kafir." Unfortunately for the proselytizer:
"Without the Guru, how can anyone swim across to obtain peace?"
-(Guru Nanak Dev Ji, SGGS, Ang. 20).
B.) It is asserted that Guru Amar Dass Ji shut off liberation to non-Sikhs by declaring: "Without the true Guru, there is no Guru at all; one who is Guru-less has a bad reputation." (SGGS, Ang. 435). Who is this true Guru? The aforementioned Guru, himself, informs us:
"Seek and find such a true Guru, who shall lead you to the true Lord."
-(SGGS, Ang. 30).
Furthermore:
"Oh Nanak, the one light has dual forms; through the Shabad union is obtained."
-(Ibid).
The true Guru is Shabad, the ageless spiritual wisdom. One is left wondering as to how these proselytizers function. It should be clear by even a cursory glance at Sikh history that the third Guru played a pivotal role in collating the words of non-Sikhs and preparing the ground for their inclusion in the Sikh canon. If he truly regarded them as "manmukhs," why would he desire to have their words collated in a "Gurmukh," going by the proselytizer's logic, scripture? The theological implication here is clear, conversion is not the sole aim of Sikh liberation. Non-Sikhs can reside in their faiths and if possible locate spiritually enlightened souls who can lead them to the "true Lord." The true Guru is one who manifests the spiritual truths of Bani, which pre-date Sikhi itself, in their life and we acknowledge that non-Sikhs too can do this. The inclusion of Bhagat Bani and Bhatt Bani should be evidence enough of this.
C.) Guru Ram Dass Ji continued the tradition of constraining "Gurmukh." The Shabad which apparently substantiates this claim is the following:
"Oh Nanak, in the shops of the city of the human body, the Gurmukhs buy the merchandise of the Lord's name."
-(SGGS, Ang. 95).
How this implies that only Sikhs can be Gurmukhs eludes any sane individual. But maybe the proselytizers possess a different mental build?
The concept of "true Guru" and "Sadh-Sangat' are also found in the words of the 15 Bhagats who pre-date Sikhi. We provide an example from the works of Kabir (quoted in the SGGS):
"Without the Sadh-Sangat, the company of the Holy, without vibrating and meditating on the Lord God, one does not reside in the truth..."
and,
"Sayeth Kabir, to cross over the terrifying world ocean, I have taken to the shelter of the true Guru..."
-(SGGS, Ang. 336).
Guru Nanak Dev Ji was not even born when Kabir wrote these verses so how can Kabir, then, be referring to the "exclusivity" which the proselytizer claims is inherent in Sikhi?
The ninth Guru informs us:
"Renounce thy hubris and attachment to Maya; focus your consciousness on the Lord's meditation. Sayeth Nanak, this be the path to liberation. Become Gurmukh and attain it."
-(SGGS, Ang. 219).
There is nothing exclusive to Sikhi in this verse. All spiritual traditions emphasize upon renouncing hubris and false attachment. In light of the latter, then, a question emerges. If "Gurmukh" evolved into a more constrictive term with passage of time, then why did the ninth Nanak possess such an open definition of the term?
We advice all Da'wah crews, targeting Sikhs, to try harder next time and maybe they will get somewhere. Fortunately for them, though, as Sikhs we can concur with them on one point:
"Truth being made clear from falsehood."
By their falsehoods, the truth of Sikhi emerges ever stronger and ever shining.'8 -
Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh.
I recently purchased this Sri Sahib from India and have removed all it's packaging. I have a few questions regarding it's care.
1.) I have been oiling the blade with coconut oil once a month but because the bade is curved and circular (in width) how would I retain it's keenness? How can I sharpen it on a whetting stone?
2.) What do I polish the handle with?
3.) The bottom of the sheath is metal as well, how do I stop it from blackening and dulling; how do I keep it clean and polished?
4.) The sheath is similar to leather but stitched, any tips on taking care of it?
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8 hours ago, superkaur said:
From my understanding I think the dehra premi's are basically agents of congress party mostly made up of dalit hindus who been literally brought by the indian congress party via the circus clown entertainer rapist ram rahim.
Decades ago before partition these huge dalit masses would have been part of Guru's Khalsa army ready to cause havoc against non-sikh oppressive powers of the day but now since 1940s due to castist "neo-brahmim" jatts of sgpc and discrimination they suffer they join these cultist babeh/godmen in these dehra's which are patronised by indian political parties brought by corrupt money and in return these power hungry "high caste" politicians get their huge vote banks and get these disposable lowlife masses to do their bidding against their enemies
The Akali Dal, the SGPC and the Sant Samaj should be held responsible for this entire debacle. Their pro-Jatt sympathies have brought about this backlash from the lower Caste communities.
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13 minutes ago, superkaur said:
Someone forwarded me the link they read it on google news and it came up.
If pakistani muslims are writing articles called this pedo rapist hinduvta baba as a "sikh guru" they aint doing it out of ignorance they doing it out of anti-sikh agenda and hate for non-muslim agenda. This kinda material will help Sikhs who often praise pakistan against india to wake up that pakistan has alot of dogs inside it that are not our friends neither pakistani establishment nor india establishment are our friends because they are non-sikh majority populations run by those who hate our kaum simply for existing. The average common man in both nations usually has no problem with us but their rulers their politicans and establishment figures dont want to lose their power so often try to belittle or disenfranchise minority communities.
The fact of the matter, as it really stands, is that the sub-continental geo-political struggle is nothing more than a religious conflict under a new facade. Both Hindus and Muslims oppose the Panth and the Sikhs need to liberate themselves from both. The day Khalistan is established, mark my words, Muslims will begin to attack it in order to curb not one but two non-Islamic nation-states in the region.
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Corruption Examples in Sikhism/Punjab?
in WHAT'S HAPPENING?
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Don't forget the Sant Samaj.