RebelSingh

these channels NEED 2 b in english, FULL STOP! thats y youth r stupid n dumb regarding their knowledge in r religion! Its no coincedence, that Kam singhs youth project show was the highest viewed programme on sikh channel last yr, and wat happened? the <banned word filter activated> channel cudnt handle the "khalistan zindabad" slogans, idiyaaats! so they took it off. im telling u right now, when OLD-arse uncles with long white beards come on the sikh/sangat channels, n bust out old panjabi, ppls brain jus switch off, EVEN my mum too. if ppl like BHAI sukha singh had his own show, he'd be the don of dons, he is wicked. Its a shame gagandip of sikh tv was murdered, coz he was lookin like a genuine leader, thats y his death hit ppl around him hard! He was giving money 2 rajoanas' sister (kamaldeep), before anyone had even heard of her!

Haha lol RebelSingh ... no of course the Sikligars are only a small minority of Sikhs

But yes 80% of the first five Khalsay in the world in 1699 i.e. the Punj Pyaaray were non-Punjabi yes

Well how come there are loads of reports of sikhligars/vanjaras/nanakpanthis then? those researchers cant all have been dumb? these southern sikhs r sed 2 outnumber us, personally i reckon they shud b transferred 2 north india, then outnumber these hindus in haryana/panjab areas, but it will never happen, coz r leaders only care for themselves! These southern sikhs r very loyal 2 sikhi, some of them r sooooooooooo poor its unreal, yet even after being targetted by muslim/christian missionaries, they've given em "2 fingers", straight up

On what basis could we demand Haryana or Himachal Pradesh? That was not "given to us" when the British left. That's what was left of the original Punjab Province, which included a great deal of land that was not naturally part of Punjab (i.e. Punjabi was not the native language). That wasn't intended to be anything resembling a Sikh homeland. What do you think the purpose of the Punjabi Suba movement in the 60s was? It was to create a state where Punjabi was the official language. If all of Haryana and Himachal Pradesh fit that description, why the necessity to even have the movement in the first place? We could have just stayed put with "what was given to us". There are a few areas of Himachal Pradesh, Haryana and Rajasthan (mostly bordering Punjab) that have large Sikh populations and would naturally fit into the definition of Punjab. But they are rather small areas. The borders of any future Sikh state are essentially Indian Punjab.

Are you aware that Haryana is 90% Hindu and Himachal Pradesh is 95% Hindu?

first of all YES i do kno Himachal is 95% hindu, BUT, it only has 5million or so inhabitants for starters. Also u say on wat basis should we be given haryana, well the fact that wen the british were offering sikhs khalistan on the table in 1947' discussions, the borders that were drawn up were, from nankana sahib, all of present day panjab, and about 70-80% of haryana, (not sure bowt himachal tho), and we wernt the majority then either, were we?

Would u have complained in hindsight if we had b given that? Also places like jalandhar were majority muslim, even after we ethnically cleansed areas of jalandhar, n massacred muslims 2 the max, yet they still were majority, but had 2 hop on 2 pakistan, so r u sayin that jalandhar shud hav gone 2 pakistan too, and its unjustified for us 2 have it now?

sikh leader of 47' like baldev singh , wen invited 2 london, along with jinnah/nehru etc was asked 2 stay behind, for further time, to discuss sikhs needs and demands, this is also the meeting where jinnah warned sikhs of the possible slavery and backstabbing the hindus will inflict in the future. Shockingly many ppl dont know, but jinnah, actually NEVER wanted partition initially, but wen he saw n realised wat nehru/gandhi wud do in a united "hindustan", then thats wen he had 100% made his mind up, and warned sikhs, but our dumb leader were sooooooooo short sighted, its embarrasing. Recently indian politican jaswant singh released a book praising jinnah, which was subsequenlty banned (what a suprise)!

To this day i still cant get my head around WHY sikhs didnt just say yes to the british and accept their offer! Before the british came, we had arguably the greatest empire in the world (Eff the british empire), yet wen british were goin, didnt it occur in the heads of our leaders that west panjab is goin 2 pakistan, shudnt we jus get wat we can? IDIOTS, even tho baldev/master tara singh, later on regretted it on their deathbeds, we shud throw eggs at their pictures!

1stly West London Singh ... i thought all of us pronounced it with a V :-)

But more importantly let us spread the knowledge amongst Sikhs and non-Sikhs that ...

Four of the Panj Pyaaray were non-Punjabi's ... let us analyse their backgrounds and ask ourselves why 313 years later caste resonates amongst many in the community and what all of us on this site can do in our lives to destroy the caste system.

Let's also remember that there is no reason more Gujrati's, Dravidians and folks from Orissa can join the Panth ... because the Panth is about ParmAthma, justice + equality ... and a global spiritual nation.

WAIT A SEC! i thought most sikhs AREN'T panjabis anyways? the vanjaara/sikhlighars outnumber us right?

that gurdeep singh jagbir is fool man, the way he talks, puts EVERYONE 2 sleep! HE LOVES the sound of his voice, did u guys see when he was interviewin the homeless sikhs in west london? pathetic

I take your points California Sardar, but let me just clarify 2 points :

1) Nothing I mentioned is even geared towards the Hindus of Punjab. They already have a fire burning in their belly and that fire is for Hindustan...jai hind. Its not their fire I wish to stoke. They're already living in a Hindu country which places their religious needs above all. They have no Punjabi pride that can be nurtured into a freedom movement. As the notion of 'Punjab' means so little to them they are more than welcome to pack their bags and go and live with likeminding Hindustan nationalists.....where they can talk their hindi bindi language to their heart's content. The Punjabi pride I'm talking about is the one that inhabits the soul of nearly 100% of the Sikhs . And, lets not forget, that the ravidassias also have that Punjab pride which can easily be ignited.

2) Yes I'm aware of the geography of Ranjit Singh's Sikh Kingdom of Punjab. But that is exactly my point. We need to articulate clearly and concisely to everyone that the independence we seek applies only to what today forms the state of Punjab in India. Otherwise, when some of display maps of a free Punjab that includes the 1848 borders, we can't expect anyone to take us seriously. its like we're saying to the world "look.......look how stupid, unrealistic fantasists we are". We set ourselves up for a mighty fall whenever we show maps showing a khalistan that includes Lahore among other things.

Now...really is the time to galvanise and build on the unity of the Sikhs. Caste, now more than ever, is completely irrelevent. Just look at what we witnessed the other week. We saw the Ramgharias from the Ramgharia Gurdwara in Gurdaspur at the forefront of the protest there. We've seen the Khatris from Delhi openly saying 'khalistan zindabad' and publicly voicing that there is no justice in India for a Sikh. To borrow a cliche from Italian football managers ; This is a good moment for us.

SSA WestLondonSingh, in ur opinion wat are the borders of the future independant panjab/khalistan going to be? coz i cant even b asked 2 reply back to sum of the mugs on here sayin, that demanding haryana/himachal/Northern Rajastan is ridiculous etc blah blah... This is what was given 2 us when the british buggered off, jus coz sum behsharam census form filling hindus disgustingly wrote hindi as their first language, doesnt mean that all of a sudden that land dusnt deserve 2 b given back! i agree with u regarding hindu panjabis, ive sed it before, they r backstabbers, always have been, how many of them stood up for us during the last 30+ yrs? They jus all stood there n watch their sikh neighbours get battered n butchered, they hardly ever put their neck on the line for sikhs like apnay have done for them. The panjabi suba movement in the 60's was for PANJABIS, but they made it into a sikh v hindu thing, so then r dumb leaders decided 2 make panjab even smaller, o well

"we can't run a Gurdwara, how are we going to run Khalistan?"

really annoys me when you hear this absurd statement over and over again, the lack of intelligence and shear ignorance of some people is unbelievable..

So how did 500+ Gurudwaras outside of Panjab pop up with ZERO outside funding?

Funded by people with ZERO management skills- majority straight out the pind, who came here with ZERO money, many spoke ZERO english

Neasden mandhir received so much money from india, tell me which Gurudwara received money from India? ZERO

Mosques have over 35 NATIONS with GDP (in billions of $) to promote islam.. we are technically Gulam, with ZERO GDP, yet we have Gurdwara in every major town and City.

The Bottom line is, yes there may have been the odd tiff between Sikhs, yes, there are issues with marayada we don't see eye to eye on, but tell me one thing...

Which Sikh jathabandhi has Burnt Maharaaj Saroops? Which Sikh jathabandhi has raped our sisters? Which Sikh Jathaebandhi has burnt our turbans? .. the ANSWER is NONE... and India has done them over and over..

Yet you gutless people rather chose to live under these butchers and rapists as 3rd class citizens, than face the challenge of uniting few different sikhi schools of thought.

How can you compare the two???

its the weak minded, pea brained m0rons who come up with these pathetic arguments..

bro look @ wat i wrote on the previous page, i too hate the crappy "we can't run a Gurdwara, how are we going to run Khalistan?" rant

The majority of the Sikh diaspora speak the doaba dialect of Punjabi, and in the doaba dialect the letter 'v' , although existing in written form, does not exist in speech and pronounciation. Thus, although it would be gramaticaly correct to say 'happy vasakhi', in spoken form it would never come out of the mouths of the majority of us because the sound of the 'v' would have to be forced out as it is so unatural. It would be happy Basakhi.

cheers mate, i suppose its kinda like "Vekh" and "Dekh", the V becomes redundant . As u may well kno in the olden days (Before Partition n after i suppose), if u wanted 2 work on the radio, u HAD to be from LAHORE/AMRITSAR, because mahji panjabi is/will always b considered as "Posh" n perfect panjabi. U tend 2 find most Lahori/Amritsaris sayin "vekh" as opposed 2 dekh

Must have been a great show then. Seeing as the highlight of the show was the music at the end.

bro jus watch it again on iplayer - http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01g6gf1/The_Story_of_the_Turban/

also u sed on another thread that baisakhi or vaisakhi is pronounced dependin on the dialect, wud u specify which areas pronounce it in certain way

ave to say, I was pleasantly surprised to hear the sentiments of the Delhi Sikhs. Before hearing from the horses mouths themselves I have to admit I had a very negative opinion of the Delhi Sikhs as a whole. As someone from a rural Punjab background I saw them as rich middle to upper class Hindu type people with little ankh and gusto when it came to the issue of Sikh rights. But....after hearing the private thoughts of the ordinary Delhi wale Sikhs yesterday, I not only feel very proud of them but also empowered by them. They were almost unanimous in the thought that there would never be justice for Sikhs in India...and in support for the ideals of bhai rajoana.

hey WLS bro, after watchin this vid, ur love for the delhi sikhs may go up even more, i kno mine did . its quite shariaam too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z825RWIzfw8

Happy Vaisakhi to all peeps on here, and the non-believers.

"but guys, then wat about kalki avtar or the possible return of guru gobind singh (i think) that ppl talk bowt. also when will there b 96 crore (960m) khalsa in the world? any ideas gang? Also i dont understand, so we DONT believe in the world ever ending or do we?"

RebelSingh ji,

Of course we believe in the end of the world. There is a pankti in Gurbani that says everything that we see with our eyes will finish/end ang 723:

Banḏe cẖasam ḏīḏaʼn fanā▫e.

O human being, whatever you can see with your eyes, shall perish.

However the soul remains. When we expire our soul may be transferred to another kharam bhoomi and again our karams (actions) will be judged. Ultimately we want to meet Akal Purakh. Only those who have done enough kamai (work) i.e. simran of Naam, Gurbani Paath and keep Rehit will have darshan (sight) of Akal Purakh.

Our dharam does not preach waiting for a messiah to save us. In fact we have to save ourselves. Nobody else can do the hard work for us. People are mentioning sri Guru Gobind Singh ji returning but do we not already have a Guru? Sri Guru Gobind Singh ji gave the gaddi of Guruship to dhan dhan sri Guru Granth Sahib ji. We already have a living Guru. We are not awaiting a messiah to deliver us, the messiah is already here, it is called Gurbani.

If Guru Gobind Singh ji does return that does not mean we will automatically go to Sachkhand or get mukhti (liberation). If sri Guru Gobind Singh ji does return than we better be the best Gursikhs we can be ie tons of Gurbani paath, Naam Simran and keeping Rehit, abstaining from 4 bajjer kurehits (4 cardinal sins) and giving Daswandh (10% of earnings).

With the kirpa (grace) of Akal Purakh we can meet our Preetam Pyara.

i had always thought that this world never started, and never would finish! or am i confusing that with god?

also since u seem more intelligent than most ppl ive encountered on this forum (no shame in that), can u tell me, wen the world did begin, wat r sikhs beliefs on whether we were monkeys, then developed slowly into humans, and did we all originate from africa?

and lastly wen will kalyug finish, and the nxt phase begin? coz this world is DISGUSTING paaji! in the Dasam Granth, it clearly says in the worst period of kalyug, family members will start havin sex together (joseph fritzel/all those sexually abusive uncles).

yea gud show i reckon

How about lack of leadership? We cant even run our own gurdwaras, how will we run a country. Our current Sikh politicians are the most corrupt, who will we follow?

can sikhs run a country if they can't run a gurdwara

thats THE MOST CRAPPEST ARGUMENT, Muslims run their mosques well, yet their countries r terriblly run, so where is ur argument going? so your/indian ppls argument is crap, simple!

I WILL TELL U GUYS ALL STRAIGHT NOW, id rather have khalistan now, full of corrupt leaders, rather than just b a part of india. atleast in khalistan we can have a arab-spring type of revolution n kick the leaders off their perch. But in india, if we try a revolution in panjab now, WHAT HAPPENS? BRAHMINS come poking their noses in, and bring their tanks/artillery. Atleast in our OWN country WE CALL THE SHOTS!! end of.

if badals were the prime ministers of khalistan, they'd have been assasinated by now! there wud b no brahmins in delhi for them 2 suck up too. dera babas like ram rahim/noormahelia etc who currently have brahmin backed z-list security wud of been ak-47'd long time ago, any sikh here who thinks we can flourish as a part of india in the nxt 20-40+yrs is havin a laugh.

but guys, then wat about kalki avtar or the possible return of guru gobind singh (i think) that ppl talk bowt. also when will there b 96 crore (960m) khalsa in the world? any ideas gang? Also i dont understand, so we DONT believe in the world ever ending or do we?

It wouldnt surprise me if this will be discussed on tommorws Nihal show on the So called Asian Network, of the Boring Broadcasting Corparation.

dont u mean BURQA broadcasting corporation?

since monday, all the topics have practically centred around muslims, thats all they friggin talk about!

I'm gonna be quite honest with you all here, hand on my heart I would have to say that the most die-hard supporters of Khalistan I have met are actually monas with hair cuts. Many of these people have unbelievable pride in the nation of Punjab...they are an inspiration. Even myself, although I have no trouble identifying myself as a Khalistani, have to say that I would prefer our independent nation simply be called 'Punjab'.

Well WLS, its a fact that a lot of the khalistani militants were monas, sum took amrit later on too, but quite a substantial amount were cut hair like u and i. Regarding the name of the land, i have discussed this on another thread under my previous name, that "khalistan" has been SO dirtied/attatched to "terrorism" by nazi india, that its better to name it something else now, i would prefer Panjab or Azaad Panjab too. BTW wat was maharaja ranjit singhs country called? was it "sarkar khalsa" or simply "panjab"?

my dads name is guru gobind singh, hes the king of kings u know!

The Havelock Road Gurdwara actually came first. Indeed it was the very first gurdwara in Southall so it should have been kept for historical reasons only. But of course, when it came to knocking one down and replacing it with a £20 or £30 Million showpiece one, anyone with common sense would have seen that the one in front of the graveyard and next to the block of council flats tucked away in early victorian tight terraced residential streets was not the right choice. But, as we keep seeing, common sense is the one thing that is always missing from our pardhans.

So...here's the situation we find ourselves in : We have a £30 Million mega modern Gurdwara in Southall that absolutely no non-Sikh visitor even knows about because absolutely no visitor to southall can even see it...given the fact that it is tucked away in the middle of nowhere.

The place this showpiece Gurdwara for the Sikh faith should have been built is of course the site of the one this thread is discussing : Park Avenue. This site, slap bang in the heart of Southall is seen by every visitor to Southall and, more importantly, by every single visitor from overseas that takes the Heathrow Express into London and every single person in Britain that takes a train into London from the west country. And yet...here we are....learning that our oh so enlightened pardhans want to sell this one off too. What that will mean is this.....This mega hub of overseas visitors in London....each day full of international visitors and tourists from all over the world as well as Asians from all over th UK...will have only 2 obvious places of worship visible to their eyes : The Hindu Temple on lady margaret and the Muslim mosque. We don't need no indian govt to finish us off. Our gurdwara pardhans are proving themselves quite capable of doing the job.

Honestly, I can't stress the importance of the last point enough. London is not Delhi, Amritsar or Toronto. It is the second most visited city on earth by overseas visitors. For much of the entire world....their one and only sight of a 'Sikh' and a Sikh Gurdwara in their life is the Park Avenue gurdwara their train carriage passes right next to on their way into central London from Heathrow. We are such fools that we can't even see how that gurdwara is the most seen gurdwara on earth from the perspective of non-sikh eyes.

WOW bro ur 100 % correct, cud u imagine WLS if the £20m havelock gurdwara was sittin where the park avenue was instead? Oh Lord, the tourists wud have a field day!

Plus, i didnt kno that haveleock gurdwara was 1st to b built, so i apologise there mate, gud points, this is why u r the stand out poster on this site, straight up.

Sangat on that side of Southall etc attend Havelock and Broadway side you can attend Park Avenue. There are many Gurdwaras in Southall and they all have loads of sangat.

I heard that the Gurdwara might close too. So love going there.

Seen, well there are more than 40,000 sikhs livin in southall, plus all the illegal faujis der too, so yea it makes sense 2 have few gurdwaras, but its a shame sum hav been named after their tribes (ravidassi,ramgharia) and even afghan gurdwara too, sad. i always remember wen growing up n goin southall park avenue gurdwara, n bein towered by the Sant jarnail singh bhindrawale photos, the gurdwara may aswel hav been named 'Khalistan park avenue gurdwara'. Would be sad if its true

I totally agree with you RebelSingh but at least its better than nothing. Soemtimes we are our own worst enemies. You look at how organised other religions are and how they have PR and media relations. What do we have the same old washed out non-pr savvy panthic leaders. Unless we up our PR game and start to use the media we are always gonna be 2nd class.

Lets start to put some intelligence and strategy behind our struggle for justice and awareness.

yea tru 100%

This programme will create awareness and has reached mainstream media because of the Sikh Channel, no doubt about it.

create awareness at 11:20pm? come on mate, typical of bbc 2 make us as 2nd class, yet an islamic hour long programme was on the other day at 9pm ish.

ive already put a link up for anand karaj act, as if u care anyways "AjeetSinghPunjabi", every1 knows ur a RSS agent