jaspreet1

Truly sad to see a Hazoori Ragi performing kirtan before dead stone idols. Also for them to have Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji there is not allowed. Akal Takhat Sahib needs to respond to this issue asap.

I think you mean feeble, not fable, and if you don't understand what I wrote then yes it is jargon to you but that doesn't change the fact that it is indeed true. Why would you assume I am trying to 'scare' Sikhs, I am simply stating what is true. And you comments about IBM are correct, they would NEVER ELECT a board who are not qualified BUT they will let ANYONE run for a board position, speak on why they deserve they position, speak on their merit and would NOT be disallowed due to any religious/cultural deficiencies. They would be selected on their suitability much like you say. Saying someone who is 'less Sikh' is less qualified to contribute to a Gurdwara board in a meaningful manner is complete nonsense. With regards to common law countries, India is in fact a common law country, much like Canada and the US and also the UK. I'm not sure what you're trying to get across with your last statement about kirpans and monas...

And I can assure you, I can play hardball with the best of them and my testicles are indeed intact and fully grown for your information.

First two pair was not referring to manhood, but referring to poker and your weak attempt at trying to "legally" corner the truth from being suppressed.

Secondly, look up the word fable and then try to correct others.

Obviously your understanding of law is very weak. I'm thinking your a mona, if not get one of your mona friends to walk into Parliament with a Kirpan on and see what happens to his "right to wear a Kirpan". Law states that Amridhari Sikhs can wear the Kirpan and those that are not Amritdhari. They cannot wear it. Supreme Law (Constitution) has accepted certain religious qualifications as rights and freedoms for certain members of the Sikh religion. Which gives force and effect to qualification parameters to laws under the Constitution. For example an Amritdhari can have a beard and not be asked to remove it for certain occupations where they require a person to remove facial hair. But a mona cannot claim the same right to have a beard just on the right he claims to be a Sikh. Qualification for religious organizations are different than secular organizations.

As non-profit organizations with charitable designations they are legally bound to comply with the corporations act of whatever country these gurdwaras are located. During the time of election they cannot deny any individual who is not 'amritdhari' from running for a position on the board/committee. The same goes for individuals who currently sit on these boards as they cannot be removed simply due to their apparent lack of religious conviction. IF an election takes place and it just so happens that every elected candidate is amritdhari then so be it, but the same opportunity to run and contribute to the organization must be given to all those who decide to do so. Violations may lead to law suits on the grounds of human rights violations, going against the corporations act of their respective countries and penalties which may extend to loss of charitable or non-profit designations. Religious edicts do not trump civil law.

Trying to scare Sikhs sangat with fable legal jargon? Not going to work because this is about suitability and qualification according to Sikh religion principles. Just as IBM or another corporation will not hire a board that don't have a clue about business management neither will the Sikh religion allow such unqualified people abuse non-profit organizations run under the Sikh religion. Apply your feeble statements to the Constitution of common law countries. Why don't Mona put on a Kirpan and try to claim they are allowed to wear the Kirpan in public according to the Constitution given freedoms and rights? Yet an amritdhari can walk into a certain countries court house and Parliament with a Kirpan and they have the full right?

Before you come to play hardball get a pair at least.

So now the stance has changed?

What is defined as practising? Those Sikhs who practise upto their ability and personal affection, or is it somneone is amritdfhari, or is it someone who is repeating naam 24 hours a day?

Not much thought process goes into your post and it really shows. Before you continue with anything further find out what Amritdhari and Sehajdhari mean. Then come back to tell everyone what you have learned.

Correct, if you started looking at those who obey the Guru completely you may just get enough Sikhs to make a committee in the whole of 1 city.

Its not just about finding amritdharis that are good, there are a lot who are very good, but to find amritdharis who are able to fulfill the demanding requiremnents of management. Believe me, it is not easy. Being a good Sikh doesnt automatically make you a good committee member, and I know of many exemples of good practicing Sikhs who once they have been on the committee has shown themselves to be naive and un-prepared for the harsh duties of dealing with joe public.]

jaspreet, dont assume and dont get personal. Being a realist is not the same as what you are making out. You can only work with the tools you have. Learn that and grow up.

Your experience does not speak for all of the Khalsa Panth. I have seen personally the Sikh community grow when Amritdhari/Sehajdhari Sikhs take control of a Gurdwara or be another institution like a school. Do you know why they are successful. Not because how smart they are or how well they are able to make connections with stakeholders in the community. But because they bow at the feet of Guru ji and let Guru ji run the show by following instructions. I can name you other examples from history by starting from the Second Guru of the Sikhs. This plan is ALWAYS successful. No extra effort is needed to implement such plans. I believe along with other Amritdhari Singhs and Kaurs when my Guru says he will stand shoulder to shoulder with me when I follow his hukams that he will do it. I do not second guess or doubt Guru ji at all. I can give you numerous examples of this taking place.

The Guru doesn't need some mona or Amritdhari that has a lot of money and political push to do anything, while both disobey Guru Sahib. The Guru is self-sufficient, if you already don't know read Mool Mantar. In there we are told Guru Sahib is self-sufficient. Guru Sahib showed his ability through many Sikhs in the past and the more recent past and is currently showing it through many Sikhs.

What you are trying to do is pigeon hole Guru Sahib and then try to run the show on your own by saying a mona is better than a certain amritdhari because of some condition you put on the amritdhari. Obviously you have not done deep contemplation of Gurbani to know..............Sikhs do ardas and don't issue commands to Guru Sahib.

If you want Daduwal to shun friends that want to hurt Sikhi. then say the same for Sant Samaj who openly sit with Badal who has been destroying Sikhi ever since he came into power. Punjab youth have been drugged by Badal, yet you don't say the same for Sant Samaj

Haan ji best of luck to you too ji. I must take a break from this too.. Jaspreet ji, It's better to win one single mind battle inside than thousands of battle outside. Vahiguroo kirpa bakshan.

Any time you are ready to discuss.....everything is a Hukam. I will be more than glad to do it. It can even be done through messages.

ਜਿਸ ਦਾ ਦਿਤਾ ਖਾਵਣਾ ਤਿਸੁ ਕਹੀਐ ਸਾਬਾਸਿ ॥

Let us all celebrate Him, from whom we receive our nourishment.

ਨਾਨਕ ਹੁਕਮੁ ਨ ਚਲਈ ਨਾਲਿ ਖਸਮ ਚਲੈ ਅਰਦਾਸਿ ॥੨੨॥

O Nanak, no one can issue commands to the Lord Master; let us offer prayers instead. ||22|| ang 474

I never gave my thesis on hakum. It's deep subject i m still researching - so far looked deeply in akhan jor pauri and also saying from englightened being which goes something like this- You can will what you want but you cannot will what you will indicating backdrops always remains pre-ordained from picking of glass of water to words coming out or thoughts in vivek buddhi.

You have a hard time reading. I said basic understanding of Gurbani. Means you did not have to give a thesis for another to identify your mistakes on understand.....everything is a Hukam. It saves you the time of spending hours on what will come out wrong at the end. Plus you started in a different thread and in the first couple of lines you completely lost the plot.

Stop focusing on the audience. They won't hang you from a cross for changing your views away from vedas understanding to Sikhi. Sikhi is not a popularity contest.

In fact, anglican/evangelican mindset missionary people think they support dasam bani- sri akaal ustat- jaap sahib etc, but deep truly inside they probably don't as they have rain of doubts, have many theological, ontological framework issues within to work out.

I believe in my Guru's Bani, but I went further and followed Dasam Bani that says don't worship stone idols, where you are still hanging on to the stone/picture dead idols and waving your basket full of food before it. Actions speak louder than words.

There is nothing wrong with particular ad in question, there are only handful of people with right wing mindset have issues with it, trying to super impose themselves on rest of the panth and pass it off as beadhi by acting like sikh community representatives. In blunt terms, this is called hijacking sikh interest.

MS514 wrote to you in a respectful tone and then you go and lash out at him!!! Learn how to respect others and not twist what they are saying. You are such a "show off" who is doing all of this for the audience here and nothing more.

Ms514 bhaji, i will respond to your points soon. But in the meantime, can you please comment on the recent picture below as well? Jagmeet singh is sikh ndp mp (come across as sikh ndp mp) with lot of sikh supporters- he is doing fanaistic work raising human rights issues of 1984 while he is doing his own job.

Should we protest and rally against him too while knowing good work he is done and there is too much (1984 human right issues) at stake?

What Jagmeet Singh does not always represent the Sikhs, though the outside world will see it that way. Maharaja Ranjit Singh marrying a Muslim woman did not represent Sikhi. Akali Phula Singh did not look if Maharaja Ranjit Singh was a King. Akali Phula Singh read out a punishment for the King after committing a wrong act. Maharaja Ranjit Singh was also doing an excellent job of protecting Sikhi interest at such a unstable time.

I am not saying Jagmeet Singh deserves punishment for the above photo, but making a point that upholding Sikhi teachings takes precedents over temporal Sikh affairs, which even include wars or receiving justice for temporal affiars.

I do not know who gave you your lesson's on how to understand Gurbani, but you really need to rethink your whole basic understanding of Gurbani.

First, you can confirm with any Gurmukh and they will tell you, your understanding of Hukam does not make sense whatsoever. Guru ji with so much love says everything is your Hukam as I can ONLY ASK. Guru ji says do ardas before the Supreme Being as you cannot issue commands (Hukams) to him. I would love to discuss what everything is Hukam further, but I will really take this discussion off track. Work it out yourself or get help from someone that will be honest with you. I am being honest, but you already hold a biased view against me and their is an audience here where you are trying to keep your image.

Secondly, you are stepping so close to doing Gurbani beadbi by presenting manipulated selected lines of Gurbani and then wrapping them around your thinking. Once again you are expressing vedas thought and not Sikhi.

I know a story of a Nanaksar Baba that listened to a certain artist who sang very dirty songs, but I am not sure if it's completely true so I won't go any further with mentioning names. But the point here is that Sikhs do not go out of their way to listen to dirty songs for the fact of trying to "see the Supreme Being in them" In the same way Sikhs don't go out of their way to indulge in the same behaviour as Waris did and then try to find the "Supreme Being in them" Here is another example Sikhs are told not to worship stone idols by Gurbani. So Sikhs don't go and worship stone idols and then justify by saying "I am trying to see the Supreme Being in this stone Idol" Instuctions have been given not to worship stones. Instructions also have been given not to step in the maya (intentionall listen to dirty songs, etc) as your face will be blackened with the maya and it will stick (destroy you) to you.

If maya was namaksar by Guru Gobind Singh Ji then today there would be a platform next to Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji with very scantily clad images or something of this sort and Sikhs would be bowing down to it. But such things don't exist and you need to rethink on how to interpret Gurbani. We do not namaksar Shiva's ling or maya anything.

Shiv sena has very little presence in Punjab.Mostly they are very low level hawkers who are agents

of Congress to create trouble when it suits them. It was a counter force created by Arun Nehru back

in 1980s.

So do not worry about these fringe elements.

Based on what information? In Punjab it was Shiv Sena showing resistance to the Sikhs during Bhai Rajoana. Every time the police need conmen to stir the pot they go to Shiv Sena and let them attack innocent Sikhs. Shiv Sena members completed beadbi of Guru Granth Sahib ji. In Delhi not to long ago when the incidents took place it was Shiv Sena attacking Sikhs with rocks and then the police fired on the Sikhs who were trying to protect themselves and those that were around them. Random people just don't start attacking Sikhs, especially when Sikhs are protesting 1984 genocide or asking for their rights.

Also the word you were looking for was not worried, but vigilant. Sikhs stay vigilant of the enemies who can attack at any time. I can tell you why are you wearing a kirpan, don't worry about any attacks as the times when you got attacked so easily are long gone.

Gurbani reminds us to stay vigilant of the 5 vices as they might look to be sleeping, but they can spark when I have dropped by vigilant stance. As the 5 vices rest inside they are also outside us and they come in many forms and try to weaken us.

Here we go again................. :ohno:

I think they are pretty good photo shoots.

Oh yeah, the guy in there is one of us...maybe i shouldn't have said that...........Ooops :giggle: :omg:

Being a sikh gives us sorry You, the right to be self righteous and adopt the ''holier than thou'' attitude, doesn't it jasprit ?

,

What I have noticed on this site is that a lot of the people discussing like to put words in others mouth to take the discussion off track and give them the advantage. I did not judge Waris once in my post discussing the scantily clad women pictures, but asked how far he would go. It was a fair assessment based on the information provided. Yet we still get these type of people who twist every word. I actually expected that Sikhs would be honest when they discuss, but they hold on to there position so hard that they forget what their actual interest and needs are as a Sikh. What makes you any different than those who don't read Gurbani? Reading Gurbani is not a ritual, but is there to be absorbed and then used to redefine how we behave. You have 1177 post on here, just under 2 years. That works out to be almost 2 post a day.

What do you accomplish by trying to trick me and taking the advantage point?

This is the first time I have seen the photos of Waris. Taking the above photos into consideration. Now it makes me think how far Waris was willing to go with the advertisement of GAP. Clearly he has no problem posing with women in the above photographed manner. Some were saying at least Waris is not posing or dancing with scantily clad women. Well that just got thrown back into their faces.

Or are some people going to turn these pictures around and say Waris is protecting these women from the big bad wolf?

i think comparing the shaheeds and gurus to someone like waris alhuwalia is completely out of context and doesn't make sense at all

i could say why you driving a car - the shaheeds never would have a done that

you shouldn't watch movies as none of the shaheeds ever watched movies

why are you playing xbox when have the Gurus ever played xbox ?????

what you work in a superstore? no guru ever worked in tesco ???

or why do you live in a semi detached house? none of the shaheeds ever lived in Semi Detatched houses - get a tent or a mud hut

why do you use a mobile .... etc you get the idea

i mean its ridiculous..... the singh is portraying Sikhs in a positive light and the female is totally respectable and any eroticism is induced by the viewers own perceptions, and not intended. This is also evident by the fact that it doesn't come across in a negative way to a majority of NORMAL people.

And i do agree its not a crime to be handsome - i have had to live with this affliction most of my life and i will make no excuses for it - its just the way Guruji made me

Singhs should have ROAB, look handsome and look like princes and why shouldn't women feel attracted to Singh's

I'm done with this discussion. However you are not logically comparing here. When I ask, did the Guru stand with a woman in this way when she was not married to him? It is a comparison that can be made because the subject which is the man in the dastar is changing ONLY. The behaviour is still the same. The behaviour here is the woman body up against Waris or hypothetically speaking Guru Sahib. With me so far? What you are doing is changing the subject to Guru Sahib and then also changing the behaviour (playing video games etc.). Which creates a completely different situation and is not comparable to what we are talking about here.

Not only are you changing the behaviour, but you are changing the behaviour to something that did not exist in Guru Sahib time like video games or driving a car. With your comparison you are also saying women who would stand in this fashion with a man who is not married to them do not exist. Yet your partner that liked your post n3osingh only likes to tell you the honest truth of Charitropakhyan when it suits his view point. Maybe he is not good at understanding comparisons either. Anyways I thought I let you know for your benefit.

Dhadhi keep Sikh history fresh in our minds. This also is not to be forgotten. Taliban and Shiv Sena are barbaric terrorist organizations. Did the Americans through the legal book at the Taliban? How many Sikhs that don't want the above 1986 information released supported the action of the Americans against the Taliban? Why the double standard? Shiv Sena rapped, murdered, tortured, and beat your brothers, sisters, mothers and fathers in 1984. Yet you cheer for the Americans to take the Taliban out without going through a legal process!!!!

Not to long ago Sikhs heads were chopped off by the Taliban how many of these did you land in prison or did you get hung by the legal system?

Why are discussions that look at Gurbani deeper being closed?

Two discussions on looking at Gurbani shabads have been closed in a matter of days.

http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?/topic/73210-tesiya-dancing-before-sri-guru-granth-sahib-ji/

http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?/topic/73167-nanaksar-worshipping-photos/

I think I am going to say fateh now, and will close my discussion here with this Gurbani pankti, which captures what I meant to say. And I shall reflect upon it too:

ਸਫਲ ਮੂਰਤਿ ਪਰਸਉ ਸੰਤਨ ਕੀ ਇਹੈ ਧਿਆਨਾ ਧਰਨਾ ॥

I behold the fruitful vision of the Saint; this is the meditation I have taken.

ਭਇਓ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾਲੁ ਠਾਕੁਰੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਕਉ ਪਰਿਓ ਸਾਧ ਕੀ ਸਰਨਾ ॥੨॥੧੬॥

The Lord Master has become Merciful to Nanak, and he has entered the Sanctuary of the Holy. ||2||16||

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru JI Ki Fateh!

Say for a second you are right and Guru ji is saying the above about Sants. Just so we are clear the word ਸੰਤਨ is not singular and means more than one. So which Sants at the time this Gurbani was written did the Guru hold in his vision while doing simran?

I'm ask you to read the Rahoa before going further here, as the Rahoa tells the complete understanding.

Akal Moorat hai Sadh Santan ki, Thahar Neeki Dhyaan Ko . Explain this to me.

Gurbani is written in Gurmukhi, so provide the ang first.