Sanatani

And nope, I didn't get my facts from a warped author. I remember my grandfather talking about how Punjabis are born-warriors who rejected being oppressed and took the sword to annihilate the bad guys. He himself came to the UK half a century ago, travelled around England and met a Sikh man who gave him a book about the origins of Sikhism. What that book said about why Hindus converted to Sikhism changed his point of view of Sikhs. This information about why Hindus converted isn't in Sikh history any more... why? That's where a part of my information derives from. And bhai, I already know why Sikhism was created mainly. To protect Hindus from the invaders. If you reply to this post then I'll explain how I know.

This comment is in reply to StarStriker... Okay, guys, clearly you don't get the point. I created the topic to tell other Sikhs out there that Hindus, whether they be Sehajdhari or not, do in fact wear the Kara BECAUSE they attend the gurdwara, not mainly because they want to show off, which lots of people seem to think. But because of some bias-ness and anti-Hindu elements in this forum, clearly a simple topic like this gets diverted to "betrayal" and history, because you can't handle the fact that Hindus are just normal people who share a great load of respect for Sikhs and share no hatred against Sikhs, unless provoked, like what some people in this forum are trying to do with me. And my information about early Sikhism (Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji - Sri Guru Teg Bahadur Ji) being an early reformist movement to alter the evils of Hinduism and go back to the Vedic roots, I got that from a comment a Sikh made on "Daily Sikh Updates" on Facebook, on the topic of whether Sikhs are Hindus. I saw another comment almost similar to this as well, written by another Sikh though. At the end he concluded that Sikhs practice Hinduism in the Sikh way, and therefore Sikhs are not Hindus. If you think I'm lying, good for you. Lying like that just isn't my style. If you still don't believe me, then... Hindu taqiyya? Lying? Wait, who lies to others that they love the "Mallesh" (if you know what I mean) when in fact they still hold a 300 year-old grudge on them? Oath. That ring a bell? And you're talking about the Indian government changing Sikh history, I just heard about that now. But again, that was the previous government. Furthermore, if you think that "Hindus" or "Hindutva agents" are changing Sikh history, clearly you're wrong. The previous Congress government didn't teach Indians about the atrocities the Mughals committed on the local Indians, instead they "glorify the Mughals" and make it seem as if before the Mughals India was an uncivilized place. So how can you say that Hindus are altering Sikh history? It was the Congress. But because you don't live in India, and neither do I, and because you're biased against your own country, you refuse to research and keep an open-mind. Not only SIKH history is being distorted, as you say, Hindu & Indian history is also being distorted. Just wait for the BJP. I believe that they will change the history to suit the reality. You can keep on hating on Hindus for all your life, but there are Hindus like me out there who love Sikhs and a minority of Hindus who know the truth about the oath who also love Sikhs.

Sanatani, on 30 Dec 2014 - 10:18, said:

By 'peddled' with your own history I'm talking about Kesh. My entire family knows why Sikhs keep their hair uncut, yet I wonder why all traces of this information has been wiped out of the history books. "Who wrote books of how banda singh bahadur never took amrit from guru gobind singh, and infact remained a hindu? Who photoshops pics of sikh gurus bowin down to hindu deities and guru nanak havin 8 arms/legs? Who recreated history by saying it was ONLY sikhs who didnt support the crappy 1857 mutiny, despite panjabi muslims/pathans/gurkhas n maharaja of kashmir not supportin it either, but sikhs always bein singled out? Who has re-written history by sayin how hari singh nalwa was infact a hindu his entire life, and had his ashes scattered in a hindu ceremony at ganges?!" They were saying, not changing. That's their belief, but as long as they don't forcibly re-write history, they haven't harmed Sikhism in any way. We all know that these figures were Sikhs. Recreated history? Did we ever once edit history and recreate history? No. It's only a minority who are "saying" this, but not "changing". I don't know why you guys think that it's all of us. Am i willing accept that my ancestors were hindus? Well duh, obviously they were, but my immediate ancestors frm 100yrs back were muslims. Also u insinuating that all sikh ancestors became sikhs just to get revenge vs muslims? Facepalm! Before the 6th guru, hargobind created the akaal sena, sikhs converted frm islam/hindu coz of the dharam itself, with no signs of forming an army. So no wat ur sayin is rubbish. Regarding khatris n rajputs joinin sikhi, u pathetically state it was coz they wanted revenge vs muslims, well wat about those hindu hill rajas (rajputs)? Most of guru gobind singhs battles were against them, n not vs mughals incidently, whom teamed together against the khalsa at chamkaur. Our population was low....? Tell me a time it wasnt low? Majority of Guru hargobinds akaal sena was non-khatri/rajput. Also not all khatris and rajputs r hindu, many live in pakistan as rajas (rajputs)/sheikhs (khatris). I was mainly talking about Khalsa Sikhs, the Hindus who converted during Sri Guru Gobind Singh ji's time. Before then, there was no such thing as Sikhism, from what I heard from a Sikh. Sikhism back then was just a "reformed movement of Hindus", which is what the Sikh wrote. It was only when Sri Guru Gobind Singh ji created the Khalsa that Sikhism came into existence. Before blaming me and accusing me of being an RSS agent here, this is what a Sikh wrote online and I'm just repeating it. During Guru Nanak Dev ji's time there was no Sikhism either. His followers may have called themselves "Sikhs", as in "disciples", but they were Hindus and Muslims. Proof: after Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji died, his Hindu & Muslim followers were arguing whether to cremate him or bury him. So, no, there was no Sikhism before the last living Guruji's time, it was only a reformed movement. How did this conversation start from a Kara to history? "well wat about those hindu hill rajas (rajputs)? Most of guru gobind singhs battles were against them, n not vs mughals incidently, whom teamed together against the khalsa at chamkaur." The Hill Rajas were also traitors to Hindus; lots of Rajputs betrayed their own fellow Hindus and fought against both Hindus & Sikhs. So by claiming that Sri Guru Gobind Singh's majority battles were against them, you're ignoring that they were allies to the Mughals. If Hindus were your main enemy back then, may I ask you why, instead of Hindus, did your ancestors vow against the Mughals instead? Wait, one question before I end this post, what clan are you from? Jatt?

Actually, those Sikhs who were re-converted were born SIKHS, so I believe it was righteous to re-convert them. It was in no way a forced conversion, they openly claimed that they wanted to re-convert. If Sikhs had no part in it, then what's the problem? I read in several places that he was a RSS member. And you know, it's not good to use the same username in multiple sites, people can easily recognise who you are.

You're right. I refuse to call myself a Hindu. I would call myself a Sikh if I could, but recently I came upon a new term "Sanatani", which is a native word instead of the foreign word. But really, what can we do? No effort has been taken to remove the word Hindu and replace it with a more native term. And again, you're right. I don't follow the caste system, neither does my brother. We just want unity. And again, you're right. Yes, I don't pray or worship stones or idols. Neither do any other Hindus. Other Hindus don't worship the idol, they only do what they do because they don't know how God looks like and they need a clearer image. I haven't done that thing for a long time now.

I respect you for this, I really do. But even non-Punjabis visit the gurdwara. My mum's side of the family are Bengali while my dad's is Punjabi, yet my mum's sisters and their sons attend the gurdwara and wear the Kara. I even know family friends from UP, Bihar and even Jharkhand that attend the gurdwaras. And RSS aren't trying to make Sikhs as small a minority as possible. They consider Hindus and Sikhs, Jains and Buddhists the same, as in blood. They believe that the true inhabitants of India are the Hindus, Sikhs, Jains and Buddhists etc... Yes, some idiots believe that Sikhs are Hindus. But they're not trying to harm Sikhism by saying that. If they really did hate Sikhism and wanted to reduce their population, then they wouldn't have re-converted these 8,000 children/people who were lured by missionaries out of Sikhism, back to Sikhism. In 1984, RSS was defending Sikhs and even in the riots in Saharanpur an RSS member was shot for backing up the Sikhs, from what I've heard.

My family weren't living in India when all the trouble in the 1980s, before and after, were happening, so we had no connection to that. In facts, thousands of Hindus weren't even living in India around that time. Trust me, I know. Most Punjabi Hindus actually respect Sikhs, the only reason they're "backstabbing", as you say, may be because they themselves feel backstabbed. Most Punjabi HINDU families teach their children all about how Sikhs are their saviours and that they saved them from the evil 'malecha', and I guess when some extremists started wanting their own country, they felt backstabbed. I really don't know, but that seems the logical reason. I'm really sorry about what happened in the events before, during and after the 1980s. If Punjabi Hindus are all really backstabbers, then why did they shelter Sikhs inside their homes when the mobs were going crazy? Please don't generalise... I remember one Punjabi Hindu saying that back in 1947 his grandfather and many other Hindus alongside Sikhs fought against the 'bad guys'. He then said how Sikh extremists forced his family to leave Punjab and his grandfather was shot to death, the very same one who fought with the Sikhs against the 'bad guys' back in 1947. That could also be another reason for some Punjabi Hindus "backstabbing". But I'm going to bet that you'll ignore that part and continue calling Hindus "backstabbers". "Or heres a personal fave of mine, "it was EVERY 1st born hindu, who was made into a khalsa, that started ur religion off" blah blah t@tti. As soon as u correct them of their warped/incorrect history, they label u as seperatists/extremists! U tell them, that actually only khatri/rajputs gave their eldest sons towards khalsa, look at the tirade of abuse that follows from these gangus. Ive met a lot of HP's in my life, n are nice ppl, but fact is, history has proven never trust gangus, ever!" Khatris and Rajputs ARE Hindus. It wasn't every first-born Hindu, I know, but back then the Sikh population was extremely low, it's only because of Hindu families (yes, Khatris/Rajputs) who made their first-born Sikhs and because of the "Hindu-need for revenge against the invaders" that Sikhs got a bigger population. Let me ask you this: are you willing to accept that your ancestors were Hindus who wanted revenge, and that's the reason they converted? If you don't accept that, then you've got problems because that is the truth. If you do accept that, then I'm asking you: if that's the case, why are you so full of hatred towards your own Hindu brothers? "Hindus r 30% of panjab, n always try to pass off that we r all the same, yet behind r backs, they r more vile and full of hatred towards sikhs, than even paks. Jus go online on forums/youtube n c how many have fake online ID's n c the gandh they write. Panjabi hindus r also the 1s who have peddled so much $hïte bowt sikh history," Behind your backs? Have you ever talked about behind our backs? At home lots of you Sikhs are taught hatred against Hindus as well. What was it? "Hindus are slaves"? "Hindus are weak and they needed someone to save them"? "Sikhs rescued Hindu women from sucking the lullas of the invaders"? Dude, just go to YouTube or Topix and see how much my fellow Sikh brothers, the very ones I use to believe were worthy of my utmost respect, love me and my community. Every time I replied to a Sikh PEACEFULLY, every time I apologised for 1984, every time I was on the side of Sikhs over my own Hindus and over the 'malechas', what I got back was abuse from my own Sikh brothers. I defended their religion, and in return they attacked mine. Even then I didn't abuse Sikhism back when they were abusing Hindus, Hindu women and Hinduism (Sanatana Dharma). And you're talking about "fake IDs", when most of these IDs are actually the ones who want revenge for Bangladesh. If you know what I mean. They pose as Hindus and abuse Sikhs. I've seen their lies myself. No we haven't peddled with Sikh history, you guys have peddled with your own history. Don't ask me for proof, because if you do I'll give it to you. And one last thing. Around less than two years ago I was learning about Sikhism, the sacrifice Sri Guru Tegh Bahadur ji gave, how Sikhs saved North India from becoming something else. I never once considered the Gurujis as Hindus. I considered them as my own Gurujis. At the gurdwaras I'd look at the portraits of the Gurujis in respect. Then a year ago, I actually considered becoming a Sikh myself. From childhood to a year ago, I considered myself "Half Hindu, Half Sikh" (I'm not even lying here, I considered myself as much a Hindu as a Sikh) so I decided to increase my knowledge by visiting a Sikh forum in Topix. When I read those disgusting abuse and comments lots of Sikhs made about Hindus, Hindu women and Hindu beliefs, I wanted to puke. I thought you Sikhs were actually cool. Because of stupid people like you in the Sikh community, I renounced calling myself "Half Sikh". I still have respect for all the Gurujis, especially Sri Guru Gobind Singh ji, I still respect Sikhism. But it's not the same as a year ago, thanks to guys like you. Well done on shooing me from Sikhism.

By Khalsa I meant the Khalsa army - even Hindus and Christians joined it. I live in the UK, I'm not a bad-boy wannabe or a "Desi" My entire family wore the Kara for religious reasons because they attended, and still do attend, the gurdwara. And dude, did I even say that Sikhs are Hindus? And thanks jacf