RYK

To clear up another misconception surrounding Sufism, the mistaken assertion that it's almost a benevolent strand of Islam at odds with its more forceful and vociferous stablemates is inaccurate and misleading.

Their raison d'etre is the same as the orthodox strands of Islam. The aim will always be the propagation of Islamic superiority, Sufi or not, the only difference being the Sufi will prefer a softly-softly approach, in stark contrast to the immediate rush towards domination of the type of Islam preferred by the Sufi's religious cohorts. The end result will always be the same.

So it's quite perplexing as to why they are considered to be on the fringes of Islam (or beyond its borders according to some) when their aims are identical with the only fundamental differences being the respective approaches, as well as the slight dharmic-derived deviations in belief. The ummah reigns supreme no matter what else may occur.

The phrase, "Killing me softly" springs to mind. If I was playing devil's advocate and I was a Muslim with designs on Islamic supremacy, I'd play the long game, pretend to be the conciliatory friend who means no harm, and then when my moment came I'd quietly sneak up behind the victim and end it. But I suppose the general violent and bloodthirsty Islamic mentality that gets a thrill from suffering and destruction would not be satiated by such a relatively mellow approach, lol.

Very great post!

Some of the fiercest Jihadis in Indian history were Sufi Saints. People need to learn history.

RYK AKA fellowbeing, You are one shameless person I must say. How many times have you been banned from this site then you recreate a new fake id pretending to be a Sikh. You have this weird fetish of wanting Sikhs to look up to Pakistanis. Sikhs are a proud people who don't look up to anyone in South Asia and Pak Punjabis would be the last on the list that we look up to because one of the only people in SA suffering from such a severe case of inferiority complex that they follow a foreign religion(Islam), proudly speak a foreign language(Urdu) while being ashamed of their own mother tongue and even wear foreign clothing(Salwar), and shamelessly name their weapons after foreign invaders! you think we are going to look up to such a Qaum? IT'S NOT GONNA HAPPEN!

I don't know why are you being so defensive and insecure. You have become like a loser who is threatened by anyone.

You pull so many strawman in your arguments that its impossible to continue a decent exchange with you.

I replied to your response to fellowbeing by stating that fellowbeing was right as in whatever he wrote was purely based on independently-varified statistics and facts.

And how the hell am I saying to look upto Pakistani Punjabis?! Are you crazy? I'm just saying that apni Sikh qoum should worry about dropping birth rates and that we should look at Pakistani Punjabis and see how our own people (genetically) have been able to continue increasing their numbers while we Sikhs are worried more about material gains that worrying about the future of Sikhi.

I don't care if Pakistani punjab explodes or not...All I care about is apni Sikh qoum!

Aurangzeb, yes, not sure about Abdali. Abdali was only really interested in acquiring loot and slaves, not territory. If he had converted all the kafirs of NW India to Islam then he could no longer, in good conscience, steal from them or carry out his intermittent raids. It would have been in his best interest to keep India infidel so he'd always have somebody to pillage.

Interesting point, Balkaar ji!

Tell that to the millions of Arabs from Syria and Iraq who are desperately trying to escape the Islamic hell holes to live under non Muslims in Europe.

Fleeing to other countries due to civil war in your land is quite a normal thing. But Azad Kashmiris "wanting" to "become part of" india is another thing.

Don't you get this simple point? You must be too low-IQed!!

Don't believe this liar. He's the same Pakistani who repeatedly gets banned and recreates a new fake id pretending to be a Sikh. The undertone of his posts has been the same over the years i.e. to show Sikhs as perverts and degenerates like making up this BS story of him witnessing Jusreign having an orgy all night long. Mods need to seriously ban this guy from his IP address

<banned word filter activated> is this sh1t?!

I just stated absolute truth and you accused me of being a sullah?

Bro, you got issues. If you don't believe me, just follow JusReign's snapchat. He was in Vegas few days back. Anybody that follows him on his snap can attest what I am saying. He was getting "close" with black chicks on snap..and booze was everywhere.

Stop being absolute jerks towards new Sikh members on this forum. Just b/c I write something you don't expect me to write, it doesn't mean I become a liar or some Paki sullah.

Show me some respect and I'll reciprocate.

Well, I live in North California and I'm familiar with pretty much every major Uni here, so please do.

City was Sacramento.

Some girls were from Davis...but majority were from American River etc.

(If u live in sacramento-folsom area, you'd know what I meant by Davis/American river etc.)

Where you from in NorCal? Bay Area?

http://www.ibnlive.com/news/politics/videos-of-pakistani-brutality-in-pok-an-eye-opener-for-the-entire-world-says-centre-gets-support-from-opposition-1124330.html

whats your views on this?

what would happen if india took this land back? would this affect our chances of khalistan?

LOL...look at this bro

http://video.scroll.in/608/those-protests-in-***-on-tv-theyre-actually-a-year-old

Turns out that the videos indian media showed as Azad Kashmiris wanting to join india are actually protest against load shedding and ill-management of development programs in Azad Kashmir. These protests happened in 2013!! LMAO at indian media :lol2: :lol2: :lol2: :lol2: :lol2: :lol2:

I mean, the world will end before Muslims (Azad Kashmiris) will "want" to live under backward, uncivilized, inferior, dirty hindus (Muslims regard Islam to be the most superior civilization/culture in universe)... I mean, just LOL at indian media. lmao..

Islamic nation, globally, is a fiercely independent nation. It is impossible to imagine that they'll be wanting to live under hindus or other non-Muslims.

Conquests, through Sufi Saints, through trade, immigration, movement of people within South Asia, people following the religion of the "rulers" for social benefits, forced conversions, lower castes trying to escape hindu oppression, and many other various factors.

There was no 'one' factor that contributed to the growth of Islam in South Asia.

is it PP02?

Whats PP02?

so you think the video was doctored? could there not be a few who may see that india is doing far better than pakistan in nearly every field and therefore may want to join? But yeh you are right this doesnt seem authnethic

Video was 'presented' in a doctored way.

You do know that there are still 'communist' parties/organizations in the U.S, right? What if I post video of a communist org of U.S and name it as "Americans fed up with capitalism. Want to join communism?" ...Lol, how true would that be?

You get my point?

And no Azad Kashmiri would want to live under Hindu rule. Muslims aren't that kind of breed. Don't we all know that? Why would Azad Kashmir want to join with india? Just think...

Iran is doing much better than india...you think Sunni Pakis would like to live under Shia mullah rule just cuz Iran is doing better? lol

PS, india and Pakistan are not universe apart. Both are similar nations with similar problems, similar GDP per capita, and so on. To be frank, both are shitty. I don't know what makes you think that India is doing 'much better' to Pak. May be you drank too much of "shinning india" cool aid?

When it comes to GDP per capita, infrastructure, Urbanization, security, poverty, and so on---India and Pakistan are very similar.

LOL no dont worry singh, i dont doubt ur credentials, its this "RYK", who i reckon yet anotha reincarnation of an obsessive sullahh who just cant keep himself away from our forum n dharam.

Only one's obsessive are losers like you. Get a life and stop being so frustrated.

Anybody that presents something that doesn't fully fit with your way of thinking "Oh you a sullah. you pro-hindu. you anti-Sikh"...

Are you a little kid of 16 years old?

What is your educational background? I'm not kidding, I actually want to know.

http://www.ibnlive.com/news/politics/videos-of-pakistani-brutality-in-pok-an-eye-opener-for-the-entire-world-says-centre-gets-support-from-opposition-1124330.html

whats your views on this?

what would happen if india took this land back? would this affect our chances of khalistan?

lol, Azad Kashmiris "want" to be part of india? Are we fcuking joking here? There's nothing more to the video than typical indian media propaganda against Pakistan (Propaganda game keep going between enemy states).

I bet Azad Kashmiris will die before they join a majority Hindu nation.

And india can't take Azad Kashmir. Its a military impossibility. Pakistan Military's 1st corp (one of the most powerful corp in entire subcontinent) sits at tactical heights compared to indian military's positions in Kashmir sector. In Kashmir sector, Pakistan has always severely damaged india militarily. Therefore, it suits India to fight in Pakistan's underbelly (Punjab and Sindh)..since terrain there is favorable to massive forces and this is where India enjoys advantage since she has a much bigger military than Pakistan's.

We can see this pattern in 65 conflict--where Pakistan Army started the conflict in Kashmir (because they want to fight there) but India invaded Lahore and started the conflict along Punjab boundary.

Btw, its funny...technically, Pakistan Army is the largest Punjabi Army of history. 300,0000 to 400,000 soldiers/offices of Pak Army are ethnic Pujabis--with most commanding generals being Punjabi as well.

Interesting

http://www.ibnzura.com/answer.php?lang=en&id=91002&q=Is_the_Muslim_population_shrinking?

■ Is the Muslim population shrinking?

For many years, Muslims claimed that Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world. Since a few years, statistics show that the numbers of Muslims will be much lower. But the Muslim population is still growing. The world population will shrink around the year 2100 according to the result of the United Nations predictions and Pew [1][2].

World population and Muslim population during in billions from 2000-2015 and predictions from 2015-2100 with shrinking point for world population and Muslims in the year 2100. Sources: UN and Pew.

The Muslim population is limited to a maximum of 35% of the world population according to the most optimistic available study [2]. So the number of Muslims will also shrink after the year 2100. For a comparision of the Muslim and Christian population, see related questions below. Such a study has a lot of limitations and uncertainties and therefore it is possible that the Muslim population will shrink before 2100.

1. Population explosion of Muslims is over

Birth rate of Muslims is going below Jewish and Christian level and this means the end of Islam in future. Islam is still growing coming decades. However, the growth is because of birth rate, and better life expectancy in Muslim countries. Islam is not able to compensate losses by conversions. Eberstadt, a demographer from the respected American Enterprise Institute (AEI) discovered a sharp decline in birth rate under Muslims [3]:

- Birth rate 49 Muslim countries with Muslim-majority: -40%

- Birth rate worldwide average: -33%

That means that the Muslim population is decreasing both relative and absolute. Muslim growth rate will decrease from 1.9 today to 1.5 in 2020 to 0.7 in 2050 where 2.1 is necessary to be stable. In Iran, Muslim birth decrease is one of the greatest in human history. Many other Muslim countries have very high birth decrease of 60%, including Oman, the United Arab Emirates, Algeria, Bangladesh, Tunisia, Libya, Albania, Qatar and Kuwait. Each Muslim woman today is having 2.6 less babies than her mother. This decline is faster than the rest of the world [4].

2. Marriage stability under Muslims is over

Marriage is also less popular under Muslims. Although marriage rates in the Arab world today are still higher than worldwide average, the trend is that they are going fast to worldwide average. However the speed is much faster than what we have seen in Europe. Because today in many ways the unpopularity of marriage has reached that of Europe in 1990, it is expected that the Muslim marriage popularity will go under worldwide average. This is another indication that Muslim population will decrease in near future.

3. Muslim population in near future

United Nations (UN) predictions for Yemen in 2050 changed from 102 million to 62 million inhabitants, which is a correction of 40%, because it was 102 million. Muslim population in Lebanon will grow till 2023, then it will shrink indefinitely afterwards. In general the Muslim population will grow till before 2030, and then it will shrink. Islam is not able to grow by conversion, as in Christianity. According to sociological and demographical survey of American Muslims by the respected Muslim sociologist Dr. Ilyas Ba-Yunus, 75% of New Muslim converts in the United States leave Islam within a 3 years.

4. Conclusion

Anyone can observe the birth rate statistics that Muslim population is no longer growing in an explosive way, but that the present trend predicts a decrease of the number of Muslims. Muslim claims of a worldwide Muslim majority are over.

Notes

1. United Nations, Department of Economic and Social Affairs, World Population Prospects: The 2012 Revision (Retrieved May 13, 2015).

2. Conrad Hackett et al, PewResearchCenter, The Future of World Religions: Population Growth Projections, 2010-2050, p. 187 (Full Report, retrieved May 9, 2015).

3. Nicholas Eberstadt, Fertility Decline in the Muslim World: A Veritable Sea-Change, Still Curiously Unnoticed, 2012.

4. Nicholas Eberstadt and Apoorva Shah, Fertility Decline in the Muslim World, in: Policy Review, Hoover Institution Stanford University, June 1, 2012.

Related questions:

■ Is Islam a dying religion?

■ More Muslims than Christians in future?



Why did you post this garbage from christian missionary site here? lol

This is the most ridiculous garbage I have seen. I am studying a major in the U.S that regularly deals with statistics, multivariate regressional analysis and so on. The premise of your 'report' is absolutely false and gross misinterpretation of available data sets.

This caught my eye because it relates to my field and I'm kinda mad that how our people believe stupid sh!t off the internet

wait what? Are you serious?

Yes. 100%.

I can actually name the city and precise hotel where Jus Reign's filthy evenings happened.

Won't go in detail, but I saw this with my own eyes.

He came to northern california for his usual show tours/video projects etc. One of the Sardar uncle (who are pretty rich and are family friends) allowed him a super good deal at his hotel and gave a big portion of one floor of his hotel to entertain Jus Reign and team. I was there myself. Met this dude and go pics etc.

Then, at night, we saw like 50 or more girls turn up--mainly from a nearby public university and few community colleges. The floor where Jus Reign was staying was 'poppin'...I myself heard giggling, laughing, and---sex noises.

I left the scene around 1am to 2am. Next morning, my buddy (sardar uncle's son) told me that hotel staff confirmed what we had guessed. There was indeed a big sex party on the hotel floor where Jus Reign and his buddies were staying. Condoms, wet sheets, empty liquor bottles were found. Girls' were seen in boys' shirts (instead of their own clothes). Saw two girls myself with boys' shirts.

Then my buddy told me that the sardar owner of the hotel (my buddy's father) called in Jus Reign and told him as it is! He said (summary)"I treated you like sons. Gave you a great deal. Made sure nothing happens to you because I thought tu apnay bandiyan da naa roshan krda aan...but this is what you do at my place?" ...Apparently Jus Reign just stayed quite and said sorry and left.

THIS is your 'jus reign'..the "Sikh" role model.

I watched the entire interview. Interesting viewpoint. Especially regarding fundamentalism due to identity-crisis and parallels to the Muslim community.

Btw, do we have actual statistics about intermarriage amongst Sikhs? Either in the West or Punjab? What percentage of Sikh marriages involve partners from other faiths? Any solid statistics? Because without these stats, there is no point in talking about it. May be it is not a big issue and only 5% of marriages are interfaith? We don't know.

Lastly, Sikh guys marrying Pakistani (mainly Punjabi) girls--and Sikh girls marrying Pakistani (mainly Punjabi) guys is not some sort of crisis. Lets be real here. Humans tend to get attracted to people they identify with, share values, and can relate to. Punjabi peoples in the free world of west get chances to interact, talk, make friendships, and so on. In this scenario, it is quite normal that some of "apnay" guys/girls get attracted to Pakistani Punjabi Muslims. We share same culture, food, values, language, beauty features, and have some outlook on life. Why is it considered abnormal if punjabis fell in love with other punjabis (irrespective of what side of border they reside in)?

So lets not overshoot about this issue.

https://www.youtube.com/user/JusReign

Maybe that ones better. what do you think?

He is worse. He doesn't give a <banned word filter activated> about sikhi.

I personally know him to be having sex parties in Northern California. He invites bunch of indian/punjabi girls....drinks, sex, hedonism goes full throttle.

doesnt practice what he preaches nothing muslim about that guy at all.

May be not a conservative Muslim, but culturally he is Muslim. I mean, he "identifies" himself as Muslim as far as I know.

Other than that, rich famous brats like him are all the same. He is Muslim in the same sense hollywood people are 'christian'...lol

First of all, stop pretending that you're a Sikh. It's pretty obvious who and what you are. And since you are not a Sikh then don't show your fake sympathy here about Sikhism dying. Sikhism can never die. Right now we are 57-60%. Not a big deal. There was a time in our history when we were not even 5% of the whole of Punjab's population yet Sikhs came out on top and ended up ruling over Punjab, Kashmir, KPK. During the darkest periods of Islamic persecution of the Sikhs, our people were once reduced to just 2000 souls in the entire world. But Guru Sahib still blessed the Sikhs with strength and victory over the Malech. Don't worry, our time will come again.

Sorry bro, but what fellowbeing has written in the post you quoted is true in essence. His style might be provocative, but the core of his post is something that can not be contested.

We do have all the problems he highlighted. Demographic decline of Sikhs in our own Punjab is alarming.

You should worry about west Punjab whose population is exploding and is set to double in no time.

According to fellowbeing, the TFR (total fertility rate) of Pakistani Punjab is near 3 kids per woman. This is a healthy number and population won't double even in next 50 years.

I study statistical regression for my major here in the U.S, I know some demographics. 2-3 kids per woman is something us Sikhs should be aiming at in our Punjab. Pakistan's Punjab is lucky to maintain a healthy demographic momentum.

To put things in perspective, Israel has TFR of 3, but would you call Israel's population as "exploding" and "doubling"? I don't think so.

Now west Punjab which holds political power over the other states is doing the same thing with them. Diverting revenue from Sindh(and Karachi), KPK, and Balochistan towards Pak Punjab's development. Pakistan's scant investible resources, foreign aid are unduly directed towards Pak Punjab at the expense of other provinces.

I didn't know that Pakistani Punjab diverts all resources from other provinces to itself. Intrigued, I googled about resource distribution in Pakistan by provinces. Upon some research, it seems that your point is true but opposite of reality.

In essence, it is Punjab of Pakistan which carries the burden of other provinces as well--which keep Pakistan Punjab's economic growth below its actual potential.

For example, look at this article. In 2011-12, Pakistani Punjab gave almost 50% of its entire share of water to Sindh so that crops in Sindh aren't effected.

http://www.khaleejtimes.com/article/20110410/ARTICLE/304109984/1028

As Punjabis, we both understand that water is the most useful resource in our region. Imagine the damage to agricultural production in Punjab when its share of water is being distributed to other provinces.

Here, Pakistani Analyst openly discusses "Should Punjab carry the burden of Pakistan" (article title). Pakistani Punjab has to give up resources, take the brunt of terrorism originating in other parts of Pakistan, and deal with chaos in non-Punjab provinces...all of which really hamper the economy of the region.

http://tribune.com.pk/story/585160/should-punjab-carry-pakistans-burden/

So I think that Pakistani Punjab isn't just taking resources of others. The actual situation is more nuanced than what you wrote.

Yet despite this, Pak Punjab's per capita GDP is a mere $1600! you should die of embarrassment!

Pakistani Punjab's GDP per capita is similar to our Punjab. Also, Pakistani Punjab has almost exact same HDI (Human Development Index) as our Punjab--which is actually quite a surprise since Pakistani Punjab is much bigger in area with a much bigger population as compared to our Punjab. It is easy for smaller regions/populations to have greater HDI.

I didn't know Pakistani Punjab was doing this good. I used to believe that our Punjab was way better in terms of living standards, education, HDI, income, and so on. Your conversation with fellowbeing made me dig up the actual numbers and facts---and the result was not what I expected.

Did you know that Pakistani Punjab is more industrialized than our side of Punjab. Pakistani Punjab has around 68,000 factories/industrial units (of all sizes) while our Punjab has around 14,000.

I don't know how you feel, but I feel good knowing that our people across the border are doing not-so-bad as I previously believed. Afteral, Punjabis (whether us or them) have same genes, similar culture, same type of hospitality, similar clothing, and similar beauty.

Enough of your lies. The piety of the Hijabi Muslim woman is a myth. I also used to think they must be such pure hearted women but listen to what this Pakistani Punjabi man says about the reality of Hijabi women here: FORWARD TO 20:05

I'm not the one who is saying this, this Pak Punjabi man has confirmed what the media has been reporting since 2014 about Hijabi women in the west who act all religious yet go the middle east to have sex with Jihadis all for the sake of Allah. After having sex they then divorce the Jihadi only to marry and sleep with another Jihadi!

lol, C'mon bro. Why you got to stoop to his level? Throwing dirt at others' women isn't pretty under any circumstances.

One man on youtube isn't any evidence. I haven't seen any...not even one..authentic news/report of "thousands" of western Muslim women going to ISIS to marry those dogs. Few might have gone for various reasons (fundamentalist beliefs, reactionary behavior, immaturity etc), but millions of Muslim girls/women live all across West..and not even 1% of them have shown any desire to join ISIS.

Moreover, women who wear Hijab very respectable folk. I respect them a lot. I respect every girl (including Christian, Hindu, Muslim) who stays connected to their roots and practice their beliefs/faith without giving in to hedonistic desires of modern society. Lets not dwell into writing degrading stuff about women---any women from any faith.

they both seem like idiots, dont think theres any real grooming going on just two young athiest idiots

The dude is not atheist. He is very Muslim actually.

I used to follow his channel for workouts and stuff. He is an Arab from Muslim family and he is openly Muslim etc.

Don't know much about girl