TejS

3 hours ago, jkvlondon said:

indra raped the brahmin's wife ...not just abducted her. No sikh should use any form of his name .  why not go stright to source instead of honorifics of minor 'Gods'.

There's actually an interesting story about this.

The Rig Veda, which epitomizes and praises Indra as supreme was written in Sapta Sindhu (Greater Punjab). However, after there was internal conflict among the Indo-Aryans (culminating in the Battle of the Ten Kings), the Bharatas, the victor tribe, established Vedic hegemony on all, and as they moved into the Gangetic plains, they came up with new practices to ensure segregation, such as caste. These new practices were rejected by the remaining Indo-Aryans living in Sapta Sindhu who revered Indra. And so in order to spite them, all further texts written in the Gangetic plains, such as the Ramayana, and Mahabharata, not only insult those remaining Indo-Aryans by calling them "mleccha", but also ridicule and bring down the status of Indra, their supreme God, and are instead replaced by a new Hindu trinity - Brahma, Shiva, Vishnu. 

So there is some history behind why Indra is portrayed as morally corrupt in later on texts of Hinduism. 

2 hours ago, jkvlondon said:

sanskrit is NOT our heritage , gurmukhi and gurbani is ...

Gurmukhi stems from the Sanskrit words "Guru" and "Mukh". Gurbani stems from the Sanskrit words "Guru" and "Bani".

Sanskrit IS our heritage. Maybe not the Sanskrit of today, but Vedic Sanskrit and the Vāc spoken before that is. 

And here is even more obvious evidence: Salok Sahaskriti Mahalla Pehla

5 hours ago, Gagan1995 said:

UK seems like a cramped cesspool to me filled with dangerous Pakis and other islamic gangs , just look at france , it's turning into a 3rd world Sh^Thole . As for politics , I think they're are the plenty of a Sikh Politicians over there . 

This is true. Also, I would advise the diaspora living in the UK to immigrate to Canada (better to have a stronghold in one area than be dispersed everywhere), although I know this is highly improbable but more Sikhs coming into Canada will only increase our political influence there.

As the question in the title states, what's the reason?

Considering that both countries have roughly the same population (Canada does have a slight edge on the UK), why aren't we seeing as many Sikh politicians in the UK as we do in Canada?

6 hours ago, Gagan1995 said:

 Personally , when I have 5 boys of my own , their names will be Zorawar , Arjan , Amar ,Sher & Zayn .

3/5 of your choices aren't exactly that brilliant either. I'd rather have the "preet" "jeet" "inder" permutations than naming my children with Arabic names like Zorawar and Zayn, and Persian names like Sher.

It's also for this reason, that many of our kind stray away from pure Sanskrit names like Arjan, Amar, Anand, Gautam and whatnot. Because they think these are Hindu names, but in reality, it is not Hindu, but Sanskrit - our heritage. 

But yes, I would choose pure Sanskrit names over prefixed/suffixed combination.

The Sikhi being practiced by most Sikhs today, including our own families, is basically a sect of Hinduism. This is the sad truth. We have lost our way in practicing Sikhi for centuries now. 

You make some very good points, but I disagree with the assertion that Pakistanis don't have an identity. They do, and it's them being Muslims through and through. It's something I hope our people will do as well, and choose Sikhi over our Punjabi identity.

Here's the thing, the Punjabi identity that we all seem to cherish is also the creation of the Mughals. From clothing to food, from language to our ethnic identity, all has had an overwhelming amount of Mughal/Persianate influence. Heck, even the name Punjab/Punjabi was given to us by Jahangir. 

It's for these reasons I think many Sikhs also stray away from their Punjabi identity. Punjabiyat and Punjabi is also an identity that has only been fully realized recently, the 18th century. 

If I could have a say for all our people, I would go the route of the Pakistanis, and have all of us identify solely as Sikhs over Punjabis. Language doesn't matter, as long as you can read the Guru Granth Sahib.

6 hours ago, jkvlondon said:

it wasn't just one incident in amritsar it was the kettling of punjab and the systematic murder of the ablebodied generation of that time , removing the protection, the breadwinners, the next upcoming generation , the ones who could have guided the babies to adulthood . The systematic rape of the mothers and daughters traumatising them so they too were not capable of inspiring the babies . It was also the 'policing' over two decades which involved disappearing any aankhi sikhs moneh or amritdhari . with this going on there was a determined shut down of education places and increase of teke , govt sponsored influx of drugs   . There are people in Punjab staying and striving but this is risky business as the GOI doesn't want Punjab's fate to be positive and achievements notable . Captain is the reason we did not secure trade because he was on a mission to prevent confidence in the state.  Sikhs have to go back to gurbani and what its faisla is ...do what is required with our own hands, don't trust anyone's promises look captain obese even swore on gurbani that he would remove the drug threat within 4 weeks ... we all know that Guru Pita ji told us specifically DO NOT TRUST THE OATHS AND PROMISES MADE ON HOLY SCRIPTURES OR THE PEOPLKE MAKING THEM. It is clear Captain Obese is panth dusht.

Punjabis are doing good from what I've seen. Most families in Punjab are doing great economically and are comfortable. And that is the problem. Many of them think this is all it should be. There is no desire to innovate, to create. Do something with that money for the Sikh community like opening up an institution to educate or starting a business to employ more youth, don't just spend it on depreciating items like cars and phones.  Perhaps its having been raised in a Western setting that I cannot see eye to eye with the kind of mentality those people share. 

1 hour ago, Gagan1995 said:

Fact is 84 had huge ripples in the economy . Hell , young men in Panjab were getting picked up and killed at random all throughout the 90's , have you forgotten KPS Gill and his cronies ? The male population is Panjab was affected greatly and then the government started spreading drugs in the state , tell me why Haryana and Himachal don't have a serious drug problem ? Yes, Panjab today is mostly developed as I was surprised to see when I went back this January but there have been huge problems the directly affected the growth.

Listen, I know about all those events. But looking at the current state of Punjab in the last decade, they have had no upheaval. Their lagging economy is theirs to blame only. 

Look at the past decade of growth of economy in Punjab and Haryana and you will see how Haryana trumps Punjab. How? Because it diversified the sectors its investing into. It has opened up new markets for people to trade in. What has Punjab done? Still the same old sectors from half a century back being dragged on without any innovation. 

Why are drugs spreading to Punjab? Because Punjab is on the border. Haryana and Himachal Pradesh are not. There may be attempts to spread drugs into Punjab selectively, but then one has to ask, who is really to be blamed? The people offering the drugs, or our people accepting them? I can understand our community has been through a lot, but looking at how people have absolutely no recollection of it in present day Punjab and are too absorbed in meaningless pursuits, I don't think it would be right to use it as a reason to mask our people's current lack of achievement out of narrow mindedness rather than upheaval. 

4 hours ago, Gagan1995 said:

It's only doing better because Panjab went through 84 . You lack common sense

What does something that happened 34 years ago that the people of Punjab have already forgotten and are instead too indulged in their menial riches/showoff and drug abuse have to do with the economy? 

The economy of Punjab is falling because our people are, and I have said it many times on here, not interested in any worthwhile pursuits. Farming? Nah we'll let that migrants do that. Education? Nah, we're going to Canada. Business? Nah, that's what Banias do. The only constant thing they pursue is selling off their lands for materialistic interests and drugs. There are no businesses being started and grown in Punjab by Punjabis themselves. No initiatives set up by the gov't to attract foreign investment. Even Canada, the beloved country of our people, did not invest into Punjab in their last trip to India. The gov't of Punjab simply could not secure Canadian investment that Haryana, Gujarat, Bangalore managed to do.

But then again what do I know? I'm the one lacking in common sense right, so please educate me.

1 hour ago, jkvlondon said:

diffrence is massive if head is full of sikhi rather than harnvi gandagi

 

 

Obviously. But I don't see that happening with our poor leadership who are too self-absorbed.

20 hours ago, puzzled said:

Yeah my mums been there because her nanke are from there and she said many of the men walk around wearing chadars and holding rifles in their hands.

I see nothing wrong with men walking around in their chadars with rifles. It is much better than men with funky hairstyles who are glued to their cellphones.

1 hour ago, jkvlondon said:

not for long as they are now having their water being taken away too to give to rajasthan and other places .

I don't think water being taken away is going to affect their economy. They are invested into many other fields other than agriculture unlike Punjab,

1 hour ago, puzzled said:

Weren't the Singhs who killed massa rangar Rajasthani Singhs?  Do Rajasthani Sikhs still exist today? not the Punjabis that have moved there but actual Rajasthani Sikhs? 

There are Rajput Sikhs, I'm friends with one. Not sure about other Rajasthani Sikhs. However its imperative that Sikhism spreads out in the Northwestern corridor of India, be it Punjab, Haryana, Himachal Pradesh, Rajasthan, Kashmir and Gujarat. It allows for a concentrated area of Sikhs rather than sparsely populated which makes them more vulnerable, and unable to have a support system. It will also then be easier to spread it from there on to other regions. 

14 hours ago, Gagan1995 said:

Also Haryana it self is a poor man's version of Panjab . Harvani isn't a language and their state is a complete RAPE LAND and backwardness Crap hole. There is not such thing is Harvani culture , it's just a knockoff of Panjabiness , they lack an Identity. 

You're in denial. Haryana is doing far better economically than Punjab. It is far more developed too. The politicians of Haryana are far less corrupt than Punjab and are actually working to better the lives of their people.

Here, look at the GDP of Indian states, Haryana is richer than Punjab:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Indian_states_and_union_territories_by_GDP

1 hour ago, puzzled said:

It wouldn't be hard to do that tbh, but our leaders are fat pigs and keep all the money for themselves. It would be great to have some tough Rajasthanis and Haryanvis as Sikhs. Sikhi would be easy to spread as most Indians already believe in karma, reincarnation, god being everywhere, people in india are very familiar with these things. All we need to do is send out people to do parchar and spread awareness  but our leaders are too corrupt, they just dont give a <banned word filter activated> about sikhi or sikhs 

I personally feel that it would be quite easy to convert Haryanvi Jats. They are after all outcastes in the Hindu caste system, and they can feel at home with many of their ethnic counterparts being Sikh.

The Arya Samaj used a similar tactic to convert them to their sect. They were not given the Kshatriya status they hoped to be given by other Hindu denominations, however the Arya Samaj gave them what they desired. We need to do something similar, not only with Haryanvi Jats but with all downtrodden communities in India. Give them what they fervently desire: a status within society. Sikhi provides that.

2 hours ago, Preeet said:

Are you talking about Muslim Gujjars? 

All Gujjar nomads in Punjab regardless of whichever religion.

6 hours ago, genie said:

Don't think mann saab is talking about sending Sikh commando's to protect afghan sikh populated places i think he knows that would be pointless and futile. I think he is talking about revenge missions against islamic state khorasan group in their hideouts in borderlands of afghanistan and pakistan.

From a safety point of view yes afghan Sikhs do need to leave Afghanistan  but if they do then it should come at a heavy price for Islam and anti-sikh muslim groups based there. Sikhs getting killed for free will only embolden the criminal islamic salafi nutjobs to target sikhs in other lands as they have been doing with no consequences or retaliation as of yet. From sikh religious point of view no Sikhs should ever leave afghanistan, pakistan kashmir and beyond. As Gurbani states a true Sikh will be cut limb from limb but never leave his lands or the battlefield and this is what the purataan Sikhs of the past firmly believed in and thus created the Sikh empire eventually after fighting back destroying enemy towns and forcing hostile muslims to flee or convert to sikhi.

If I was a Sikh leader and I had to think about long term future of the Sikh kaum I could see things are not looking good with current demographic trends indian punjab has alot of sufi masjids propping up all over the place basically making it easier for Islam to take over and then you have the muslim immigrants from  U.P, bihari and gujjar nomadic communities coming in. So I would be thinking of making ways to make kashmir and punjab a very hostile environment for Islam ,,,,,,all of northern india should be a place where sikh populations can feel safe, at home and thrive so that eventually they expand out into pakistan and afghanistan again. At the moment its all one way traffic with salafi Islamics attacking soft target non-musilm populations to increase their land take over. Their arab funded land mafia business model needs to be reversed.

 

Sikhs in India should be targeting incoming migrants especially Gujjar nomads who are poor to embrace Sikhism. I say open up Punjab to migrants but only if they convert to Sikhism. Letting in migrants of different faiths is just asking for more religious trouble. Its basically undoing the partition and disrespecting the victims who stood their ground to create a Sikh majority state in the first place.

Preaching of religion is something Indian law allows and that is something Sikhs should take full use of. 

Terrible solution in my opinion. Afghan Sikhs need to be brought over to the West so their lives are out of danger. We have no need to be in Afghanistan in the first place. 

7 hours ago, puzzled said:

Meat is nasty anyway, your basically eating something which pissed, shitted, had sex, carried lice, had illnesses and was a living walking thing 

Ugh, now that you put it that way...haha.

But in all seriousness, meat eating, like you said, is not encouraged in Sikhi. Not sure why some of our people bring up obscure references to prove their meat eating habits. I mean it's fine you personally want to, but don't contort religion to sanction it.

On 7/2/2018 at 11:23 AM, jkvlondon said:

these sikhs are descendants of sikhs of guru NanakDev Ji's time , they were so important that Guru Pita ji used to write hukamnama to them and encourage them . Mai Sewan was from Kabul Sangat .

I am surprised that you guys don't also see that these bullies in far flung places whether in pak, HInd or Afghanistan  are getting their way by bullying and stealing our hard earned arable lands/properties and valuable real estate(shillong) from out under us leaving us as permanent nomads without a place . This is not what is needed , it's all very well saying come to punjab , doesn't that make it easier to kettle us in and kill us off as they tried in 1980s??? what about nanded and other dharmic asthaans as in patna ?

I can understand that it is their land for centuries, however the wisest thing to do is move  on from there. Life is far more important than land.

We should instead be focused on bringing our people to safety. If the Western governments are so willing to accept Syrian refugees, we should definitely be asking our respective governments (UK, USA, Canada) to bring these remaining Sikhs over. They're lives are at serious risk.