double-edge

The same Gurbani which his followers routinely ignore by refusing to read Raagmala or do Kirtan in accordance with the Raags lovingly specified by our own Gurus at the beginning of each Shabad?

You can deny Bhasaur's influence upon the AKJ all you want, but it's obvious that several of his precepts are represented in the Jatha, including his opposition to Jhatka, Raagmala and Raag kirtan. If it looks, walks and quacks like a duck, then it probably is one.

There is much evidence that raagmala is not gurbani. This is why panthic rehat maryada/akal takhat state its an individual choice and not to argue over this.. Something which has alluded your intellect.

Akj are not opposed to raag kirtan.. they simply believe that the primary objective of kirtan is spiritual enlightenment and uplifting the soul, not singing in strict musical measures.

Infact many akj kirtanis do kirtan in raag, as did bhai sahib randhir singh ji.

Ok so back to the topic.. dastar is mandatory for all sikhs.. bottom line.

Bhai Randhir Singh's religious views were heavily influenced by his excommunicated associate Teja Singh Bhasaur (known as Babu Teja Singh by certain AKJ members), a revisionist of the Lahore Singh Sabha movement. Bhasaur was very-anti Raagmala, to the extent that he advocated it's removal from saroops, along with bhatt savaiye - he even printed saroops not containing either of these baniaan. The fact that Bhai Randhir Singh forgot this when he launched his political action against the British has little bearing on the truth of his maryada.

The Sarbloh Bibek rehat is Nihang through and through. No other samparda practiced it until the AKJ appeared. As is the keski rehat (the only group of Sikh women throughout history who ever wore dastaars with consistency were the Akaalins, female Nihangs). I don't discount the possibility that these practices were incorporated into the AKJ due to another acquaintanceship of Bhai Randhir Singh's, this time with the Nihang scholar Akali Kaur Singh. It is clear that the AKJ is an uneasy amalgamation of Bhasaur-influenced anti-Raag protestantism, and puraatan Nihang practice (minus the jhatka which Bhai Randhir Singh detested and wrote books against).

The bhasauria influence on akj is heavily cited by those opposing bhai sahib and the akj.

unfortunately for you, there is no evidence to back this claim.

Those that have actually read bhai sahibs books/writings.. and there are many of them.. fully realise that his views were influenced by gurbani and gurbani alone.

He never followed anyone apart from his guru.. this was his life.

He did know teja s bhasauria before his imprisonment when teja singh was a true follower of gurmat and gurbani. When bhai sahib came out of prison and learnt that bhasauria did not believe in bhagat/bhatt banis he refused to meet with him again and warned him to change his stance.. there is a letter by confirming this. Bhai sahib remained true to his word and never met with bhasauria again.

Again Balkaar you have based your views on unfounded hearsay and rumours which are in line with your personal prejudices of akj and tat gurmat.

Lol.

Our Guru tells us to pursue truth in all things. This includes our itihaas, no matter how inconvenient the truths of our history may be to our own personal agendas.

Some of you still don't seem to understand the point I am making. I never said that no Sikh woman ever wore a dastaar, I never said that it inappropriate for a bibi to wear a dastaar. My point is that the situation now, where most bibiaan do not wear a dastaar, is not unlike how it has been throughout our history.

The AKJ Rehat is the one that was fabricated by British influenced Sikhs, playing pick and mix with the Nihang Rehat by taking bits they liked (keski, sarbloh bibek) and abhorring those elements which were in conflict with their revisionist policies (jhatka, raagmala/raag kirtan). The Nihangs may have been around since Puraatan times, but so has the Damdami Taksaal. Why do they not require their women to wear keskis? I refuse to believe that a group founded in the 20th century is better placed to access the truths of our history than one which came into existence with the physical blessing of Dashmesh Pitaa himself. It is also worth mentioning that not even the Nihang Singhs make the assertion that the dastaar is mandatory for all Sikh women. No puraatan, historic samparda does.

So bhai randhir singh ji was a british influenced sikh? even though he sacrificed everything he had by standing against them and spending many years in jail?

You conveniently leave out the historical facts about this great gursikh and what he did for the panth.. yet claim to be in pursuit of the truth 'no matter how inconvenient.'

Where is the evidence that bhai sahib 'pick and mixed' rehat mr historian?

By your own ramblings you are asserting that you know the truth yet refuse to acknowledge the truth of guru jis non gender specific order of the dastaar.. instead you try to make this into a ddt vs akj debate.

Sikhi is not a fact finding course.. stop wasting your precious time, life is too short.

It is completely possible to get a high top-knot without the support of a nihang-style bunga. Many Jatt women also wore their hair in this fashion: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jat_people#/media/File:JatGirlAllyghur1868.jpg

Mai Bhago was said to have adopted 'the dress of a man' during the Battle of Muktsar and worn it thereafter when she became one of Guru Gobind Singh's personal bodyguards. If it was commonplace for Sikh women to wear dastaars as well, this remark would not have been made. Nor would later European commentators have drawn attention to the fact that female Nihangs distinguished themselves from the majority of Sikh womanhood by wearing turbans.

Your views of sikhi and rehat are based on what the english and europeans wrote. How sad.

Those are precisely the sorts of images I am talking about. Those aren't keskis, they are very large topknots towards the back of the head.

When Sardar Baghel Singh marched into Delhi, the Mughal Shah Alam II came out to welcome him with his begams. A group of ten Singhniaan were invited to the begam's quarters, where these Sikh women fascinated the Shah's wives and courtesans with their talk of warfare, plunder and how to shoot missile weapons. Five of them were dressed like Nihang Singhs, the others wore dresses, heavy ornaments, heavy lower garments and top knots a hand-span-and-a-half in height. This description exactly fits those images you have provided. I find it strange that Bhai Manvir Singh resorts to those images in order to further his mistaken beliefs, especially since the woman on the left is clearly shown to be wearing many sets of golden bangles (Bhai Manvir Singh and most AKJ oppose the wearing of jewellry).

Actually they do look like keskis, covering a topknot, with chunnia to cover. The only reason a topknot would be so high is if it were intertwinned with material.. ie a bunga under a dastar. Balkaar it appears the eyes only see what ones mind wants them to see.

Guru jis hukam was for his sikhs to wear dastaaran. Guru sahib did not differentiate between man or woman.. sabat surat dastar sirran.

Women have discarded the dastar over time for the sake of fashion.

Bhai sahib bhai randhir singh ji and Akj brought a revival of this tat gurmat khalsa rehat.. much respect to them.

Like has been said a hundred times now. Juts need to sweep up under their own filthy mattress before any have the audacity to jump on any other people's minor bull5hit.

The kind of stuff we see in the OP is hardly some impending issue that threatens the panth. There are PLENTY of greedy, crooked juts out there doing scams and selling drugs and whatnot.

Instead of seeing the OP for what it is, it's used (yet again) but certain backwards juts to try and point fingers like this will distract us from kartootaan going on in their own community.

Just so you know, that trick is played out. People aren't buying it any more. The only people your fooling with that ploy is your own easily brain-washable types.

Instead of promoting fundamental sikhi values like kirat karni and hakk di kamai, your supporting pick-pocketing thieves and fraudsters who leave a daag on guru pita jis pavittar dastaar. Shame on you.

Although rather strongly worded, what jagsaw has said about the newly settled afghan-sikh community is fairly accurate. I have seen these trends myself and they should be condemned.

The anti-jatt brigade need to realise that they are being just as racist as the anti-chamaar lot that we have all grown up with.

Some people on here clearly need weaning off youtube as their wannabe gangsta attitudes and language stink.

Agree that history is important to learn from but if were looking for the definition of a sikh from it then we will surely fall short.

The problem with apnay/ppl generally in my view is that they prefer to follow wherever their mind leads them rather than what satguru advises and instructs.

If it turns out that the sikh kid is the bully, then he needs a good pasting. Bullies only learn 1 way.

And also you are very controlling in your family networks and indeed have a large underground asian network operating in the UK involving taxi drivers and corner shop owners etc. where even if a young asian girl goes to the doctor for a confidential complaint, if the doctor is asian the girls complaint will be reported back to her family in breach of doctor/ patient trust.

Also you have an honour based system that is solely existing to control the females within your families and you use shame to keep them in place.

There is also a lot of sexual offending going on insde your communities and shame is used to keep the victims quiet.

In our culture honour means something different to yours, completely different interpretation altogether.

Sikhi and culture are 2 very different things Eduardo. Sikhi is all about spiritual enlightenment for union with our creator. Culture is baggage picked up from years of spiritual starvation.

You imply that your culture is more honourable than ours.. you mean the culture of drinking, partying, cheating on your partner, wearing the skimpiest clothing you can find?

Or do you mean kicking your kids out of the house at 16 yrs of age, charging them rent if they want to stay at home, putting your elders in a care home as soon as they get annoying, or just turning a blind eye to your children getting groomed by sexual predators?

Certainly impressive and honourable sounds your culture.. I hope your religion has something to offer you people once you sober up and smell the coffee.

The example of the girl going to the doctors and breach of confidentiality.. not even worth replying. Im sure you've got a link to a news report you found up your sleeve to give credit to your (very poor) judgement.

Something more substantial when it comes to the behzti state of the nation is where the majority that claim a stake in Sikhi love and courage' have taken 1 crown off their own head to make 100 surrender flags. And the majority of the remainder confuse their crown with a testosterone rush.

The dances are far outside any cultural comfort zones with which I’m familiar. In one case the person is professionally engaged in dance. In the other case, the kid looks maybe 14 or 15 years of age. An age that is awkward in every aspect of identity formation. Odd visuals for me? Yes, as someone who may have had more street fights than dances. ..In case an alpha wishes to do an alpha comparison. Can I judge these people in some manner? Hardly.

Nonetheless, maybe there is behzti in these posts. Mocking homosexual people generally and calling them names by using derogatory terms and claiming Sikhi! The irony, now that could be ultimate behzti.

But Sikhi promotes understanding, not behzti for the sake of behzti.

So understand that homosexual people are discriminated against and mocked. As a Sikh, regardless of others beliefs, we’ve taken it upon ourselves to protect others from harm and discrimination, not project upon others harm and discrimination.

UNBELIEVABLE!!

The issue here is much bigger than your idea of not being discrimating and political correctness.

You claim to have had more street fights than dances and would describe the 2 videos as 'odd visuals' for you. FIne.

But for others, stronger language is needed to express their concern over the obvious decline in general attitudes and respect for our Guru's saroop.

If all sikhs were indifferent and polite towards those that publicly dance like pansies whilst in sikhi saroop.. then it would certainly impact on our own consciousness aswell as mockery from other communities.

I have seen these kinds of video's being shown and commented on facebook sites like 'spotted in Bradford.' The mockery they have received is embarrasing to say the least.. idiots from other communities (mainly muslim) are given a field day to disrespect Sikhs as a result.

Are you happy with this?

WJKK WJKF

I don't see much wrong with the chubby guy with the parka dancing. The young dude with the pag is dancing to nagan and in a feminine way, but who said he is gay? Other thing is, they are both classical Indian dance styles...probably all the posters who have contributed to this topic including me are from western countries an we have been heavily westernised. However, this is Indian classical dancing, not hip hop or Bhangra?

Another thing, why do films like Singh is King and jatt and juleitte get missed, as they do not portray Sikhs or the sikh dharma? Yea 2 dudes who are from INDIA, dancing CLASSICAL INDIAN becomes a disgrace lol? But give jazzy b and diljit dosanj the green light to do as they please right!

Yes.. classical indian dancing (which women do)such as that done by kesdhari/dastarvalay males is a disgrace.. as well as beadbi to our gurus roop.

Regardless of culture, those 2 dancing pansies would be universally mocked, unless ofcourse they were being watched by fellow pansies.

And yes, jazzy b etc are also clowns.. but at least they don't behave like women.

Guru Gobind Singh ji maharaj made the sikh man the most ALPHA male on the planet.. then u get these woofters dragging our image into the gutter.

Kids are not that dumb.

I and many gursikhs I know grew up with xmas trees in their homes during childhood, guess what.. we guru dey sikh.. it took nothing from our sikhi.

Surpressing the desire of kids to be involved in small pleasures like xmas trees may only work against you in the long run.. there are many ultra strict gursikh parents with grown up children who are monay/drinkers etc.

vjkk vjkf

Veer ji what you said was right, let it play out, stay humble and most importantly rely only on the support of Guru jee.

Do 1 mala jaap of 'Thir ghar beso har jan piaray' shabad before you sleep at night, followed by ardaas.

Rest Maharaj will arrange.

From criminal to christian.. Glad he's given up being a drunken thug.

This is a good example of someone who has never delved into sikhi and naam, hence has never lived as gurus sahib has prescribed.. as a saint soldier.

He would have had more of a chance had he married a sikh girl.

Guru sahib kirpa karan

Yeas tru. The bradford vale do like their meat halal ! Ther are pubs next to gurdwarras so R they to be sorted out too. Wher draw a line? Is ther like a safe distance ? Lol

Which pub is next to which gurdwara? sounds like your just having a dig for nothing.

Yes there are many muslims in bradford, but there is also a large population of sikhs.

In fact bradford has many chardi kala gursikhs, especially the naujwan.

The problem with this meat plant issue is that it is has happened next to the wrong gurdwara..it is the largest gurdwara in bradford but has the most tillay committee members and least dharmic minded sangat attending.

The general of an army unit or head of police traditionally carries a stick, and points this to give his orders to his men. This is a symbol which indicates his authority.

The large arrow carried by gursikhs is not really an asthar teer(ie for firing) but rather indicates the jathedar or general in charge. Hence why it was carried by sant jarnail singh ji.

Singho,

This video is a good example of muslim youth in the UK. Not all, but a large percentage of them have much hatred and intolerance towards Sikhs, they just don't have the courage to show it all the time.

Unfortunately this will change.

After the Mumbai killings, tensions are high again between India and Pakistan. It is just a matter of time before we see a war between these two unstable nuclear nations. The worst affected will be guess who.. Punjab.

The world media will show sikh soldiers on the frontline and a sikh prime minister calling the shots.

Muslims in the UK will then gain the courage born from their natural hatred of sikhs, to start attacking Sikhs wherever they can. Sikh homes and businesses will be targetted in largely muslim populated cities like Bradford, Birmingham etc. It will be a dangerous time for us.

The question is when will we begin to strengthen ourselves, our jeevans, our community? When will we awaken from our sleep?

Are we just gonna wait for our monai brothers to fight back? Will amritdhari gursikhs ever break out of their cosy comfort zones?

Totally inspiring.. Vaheguru

Mr Bond you're a typical example of intolerance, this is whats eating most amritdari youth today.

If somebody has a different opinion of an aspect of sikhi than yourself then you give them no respect.

Chandni Kaur ji, dont waste time replying to this negative person.

It matters not if the sau sakhian are authentic, time is precious and we are not to waste it.

Delve deep into naam and satguru will bless us with tat gyaan. All doubts will fade away.

This shabad is amazing.

There is a vcd recording of Bhai Nirmalbir Singh ji doing amazing katha on this shabad at Gurdwara Rampur Kheras naam abhiyaas kamai smagam.

I have some spare copies if any1 would like one.

Every panthic singh/singhni should have a collection of useful quality shastars.

We probably don't need to spend thousands of pounds on these nor do we need a huge collection fit for a museum.

But the real shastar we need and most people neglect is Naam Khanda. This is the most powerful weapon and it is priceless..

nwvY kI kImiq imiq khI n jwie ]

naavai kee keemath mith kehee n jaae ||

The value and worth of the Lord's Name cannot be described.

sy jn DMnu ijn iek nwim ilv lwie ]

sae jan dhha(n)n jin eik naam liv laae ||

Blessed are those humble beings, who lovingly focus their minds on the Naam, the Name of the Lord.