TatKhalsaa

What is to discuss? All signs of our history, Gurbani and Vedic philosophy point to the earth being flat

You've been predicting this Crash for 2 years now and whenever it happens you are going to give us the old "i told ya so." Just enjoy the market dude, and make money when you can don't be so scared

On 3/11/2021 at 10:27 AM, jkvlondon said:

pasarana is to spread /expand , with one sound the universe was created which is a vibration that can still be heard now . To start from unity to the expanse and repeat the cycle then you would have to have death or collecting up of potential mass /force . Sikhi are not christians who cannot fathom other s lifeforms prior to this human domininant one sikhs  KNOW that all life is Akal Purakh and whether we came from a homo erectus prior to now that is not important for a Sikh . Are you seriously saying that Guru Granth Sahib's metaphors should be taken in literal form? are you an ex abrahamic?

Guru Sahib states how the world began, as described in Sri  Asa Ki Vaar pauri 1,  ਆਪੀਨ੍ਰੈ ਆਪੁ ਸਾਜਿਓ ਆਪੀਨ੍ਰੈ ਰਚਿਓ ਨਾਉ ॥
ਦੁਯੀ ਕੁਦਰਤਿ ਸਾਜੀਐ ਕਰਿ ਆਸਣੁ ਡਿਠੋ ਚਾਉ ॥
ਦਾਤਾ ਕਰਤਾ ਆਪਿ ਤੂੰ ਤੁਸਿ ਦੇਵਹਿ ਕਰਹਿ ਪਸਾਉ ॥
ਤੂੰ ਜਾਣੋਈ ਸਭਸੈ ਦੇ ਲੈਸਹਿ ਜਿੰਦੁ ਕਵਾਉ ॥
ਕਰਿ ਆਸਣੁ ਡਿਠੋ ਚਾਉ ॥1॥

Not to go in detail of the Shabad, but basically Akal Purkh created a Nirgun form of himself, and then Naam Shakti. After this the creation as we know it was created and Akal Purkh sits on his throne watching the play of this world. I believe this to be literal.

Now, why this cannot be describing the Big Bang, and an evolution that took billions of years from some form of primordial being is understood by the concept of the 4 Jugs. It is clearly stated in Bani that human beings have been alive since Satyug. This would mean that for at least some millions of years ago, people like Jamgdani (father of Parshuraam), Rikhi Visthit Ji, and other people mentioned in Gurbani would have existed millions of years ago. Also we have the Sakhi of Rikhi Santokh Ji, who was sitting in meditation from Satjug, waiting for the Avtaar of Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji to give him Mukti. How would fit into the scientific theory of Evolution, where human beings apparently came into existence 200-600 thousand years ago? Are these people made up? Was this Sakhi of Rikhi Santokh Ji just a "metaphor," whose name will go down in history forever in the form of the Sarovar that Guru Sahib Ji created in His name? Was this all just fabricated or a "metaphor?"

How about in Sri Chandi DI Vaar, where Veer Ji above has quoted. The first Pauri are as follows :

ਖੰਡਾ ਪ੍ਰਿਥਮੈ ਸਾਜ ਕੈ ਜਿਨ ਸਭ ਸੈਸਾਰੁ ਉਪਾਇਆ ॥
ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਬਿਸਨੁ ਮਹੇਸ ਸਾਜਿ ਕੁਦਰਤਿ ਦਾ ਖੇਲੁ ਰਚਾਇ ਬਣਾਇਆ ॥
ਸਿੰਧੁ ਪਰਬਤ ਮੇਦਨੀ ਬਿਨੁ ਥੰਮ੍ਹਾ ਗਗਨਿ ਰਹਾਇਆ ॥
ਸਿਰਜੇ ਦਾਨੋ ਦੇਵਤੇ ਤਿਨ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਬਾਦੁ ਰਚਾਇਆ ॥
ਤੈ ਹੀ ਦੁਰਗਾ ਸਾਜਿ ਕੈ ਦੈਤਾ ਦਾ ਨਾਸੁ ਕਰਾਇਆ ॥
ਤੈਥੋਂ ਹੀ ਬਲੁ ਰਾਮ ਲੈ ਨਾਲ ਬਾਣਾ ਦਹਸਿਰੁ ਘਾਇਆ ॥
ਤੈਥੋਂ ਹੀ ਬਲੁ ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨ ਲੈ ਕੰਸੁ ਕੇਸੀ ਪਕੜਿ ਗਿਰਾਇਆ ॥
ਬਡੇ ਬਡੇ ਮੁਨਿ ਦੇਵਤੇ ਕਈ ਜੁਗ ਤਿਨੀ ਤਨੁ ਤਾਇਆ ॥
ਕਿਨੀ ਤੇਰਾ ਅੰਤੁ ਨ ਪਾਇਆ ॥2॥

Guru Sahib Ji clearly states that from this known world creation, the 3 Devtay were created  (Shiv, Brahma, Vishnu) Is this too just a metaphor? Was Durga not an actual being but just a story Guru Sahib Ji copied from Hindu texts as missionaries state. Is this too all just a metaphor? 

How can we deny Gurmat Philosophy, history, and Gurbani. If this group of atheist scientists, who only believe in this temporal world had any solid proof of these "theories" Guru Sahib would have mentioned them in Gurbani or they would be mentioned somewhere in history. This is in response to just the big bang, I can go further in detail about other scientific lies that contradict Gurbani in another post. So, please answer some of these or all of these questions 

Were the people mentioned in Gurbani living from previous Jugs just metaphorical?

Was the Sakhi of Rikhi Santokh Ji made up?

is Chandi Di Vaar just a metaphor (are the 3 Devtay just made up? did Durga not exist?)

Why hasen't Guru Sahib Ji ever mentioned anything remotely related to the idea of evolution?

and Bonus, why have Scientists changed their theory on the Big Bang every 10 or so years, from stating we existed millions of years ago in the early 1900s to now coming to the theory we lived over 13 billion years ago. How can we gurantee this estimate will not change in the future?

On 3/9/2021 at 5:29 AM, jkvlondon said:

Guru Nanak Dev ji  explained the birth of our universe stepwise (Arbad Narbad dhundukara ) , that there are countless planets and stars (Patala Patal lakh agasa agas), there is repeated cycles of of big bang and crunch(keh baar pasario pasar) , all well before the first telescope was developed during  the period where the prevailing thoughts on Earth was that it was the centrepoint of the universe and the sun and moon turned orbit around it in the western canon and middle eastern canon.

Where in Gurbani does it mention anything about a big bang or big crunch. If we would believe in these theories, then we would have also have to believe in the big lie that is evolution and then what? We were formed from monkeys? That humans were less matured before then now? How would that fit in to the system of the the 4 Jugs, where people in Satjug were much more advanced in terms of Dharmic philosophy. It seems that it is backwards, people now are become more ape like then ever.  If we were monkeys, then when did we grow Dasam Duars? And where in Gurbani does Guru Sahib state the Sun is the centre-point of the solar system or that Earth rotates around the Sun. There are 100's of Panktian that reference the Sun and Moon as being "Deevay" just forms of light in the sky. There are also references to "Bhoo-mandal" meaning the Earth as the centre piece of the Universe. If the Sun was the centre of our Solar System as they claim Guru Sahib would have explained this phenomenon and it would have been referred to as "Sooraj-Mandal" which it is not

3 hours ago, shastarSingh said:

they live in harsh conditions. Their way of life is completely different from the rest of the world.

They too deserve a chance to japp naam and meet God.

Why do they deserve too? Akal Purkh decides who deserves what. Nobody inherently deserves Sikhi it is only received by doing good Karam, what karam.have these people done to deserve Sikhi?

How could we expect a group of people who have no understanding of Punjabi or any Sikhi norms to get liberated? There culture is too different, this is for sure just a jooni that would fall under the category "Ek hukmi Sada bhavaihi"

The OP has exposed some good points, that today's modern feminist would never agree with. Unfortunately we have come to such a low point in our community that asking for just the basics from a women is considered subjecting them to slavery. A mothers/wife's first duty is to provide nourishment. That's why they are born to provide milk to their offspring and not the father. Now just because they are a little stressed with dealing babies why does that have to effect the way they cook. How hard is it to make a simple sabji taste good, especially when they live with the same person for many years and know their needs. We want to promote Dietary Vivek; how will our panth to follow rehit if  their mother/wife can't provide them with simple tasty food. This will lead them to wanting to eat from restaurants and away from Sikhi.

Just whatever you do, make sure you do it with Pyaar. If you have to get a little upset that is fine but don't do it with anger in your heart rather as a way for her to take you seriously. Tell her how important her duty is and explain how stressed you yourself are with work or other worldly duties. If they still don't understand then do Ardas until Guru Sahib gives her the ability to perform her household duties diligently