Punjab1701

Gurvah Ji,

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh.

When the building plans were passed it was also agreed in the agm that the gurdwara would cost 17 odd million, This figure was also used when all the fundraising was done for the building fund. Obviously the figure was known as the loan had to be agreed. I am sure the this was alos displayed on the notice board.

Hope this helps

Gurvah Ji,

Wahe guru Ji Ka khalsa Wahe guru Ji ki Fateh.

I have not seen the old tender and can not comment on that, but all i can say is Bra, Samra & co were all part of the design, commisoning and approval process of the new gurdwara. and it was during Harpal Singh brars time as general secretary that the deisgns and tenders were passed, and this was also passed during the agm when they were all toghther. Also the mangemnet company that manged the whole process was also recomended by Mr Brar. As for the budget, this was set by the lowest tender recived. The Banks that funded the project would of insured that this was done professionally as no one will just lend you money.

As for people doing Sewa, i know that we have very talented people within our community, if they wanted to do sewa they should of sumbitted tenders for the peice of work with a cost of zero. As you can appreciate any complex building workk needs to be manged and all the works need to be scheduled. That is why on large projects we can not just have people comming in and doing work as they wish, as it all needs to be planned. The reason for having tenders for every piece of work is to ensure that we get value for money.

The thing i dont understand is the plans and model of the gurudwara were on display since 2000. A lotof the concerns that are being raised now should of been raised then. As it is too late now as the gurdwara is built and complete.

your more than welcome. I actually think that everything that people sya should be backed up sources. If there are any more questions i will provide you with the answers. So as i have said to others before you can not compare the two gurudwaras. especially at this moment in time when gravesend is not built. But according to the number of worshipers it can accomodate. Havelock Road in Southall accoomateds almost 3 times more than gravesend.

Wow this helps a lot, thanks for those bbc sources...a lot more reliable than what's being said on these posts lol...thank you veer/bhenji!

I still maintain that; i am neither a supporter of sohi or malhi purely because some the thigs I know they have done...through video footage and first hand experience is inexcusable :D

so can people stop accussing me of stupid stuff hehe

Pleas elet me know hat things they have done that are inexcusable

Ok, Basically some people are trying to compare two different gurudwaras in different locations. One costing around 8 million but not yet completed and one having cost 17 million i.e. southall.

The one that has cost 8 million pounds is in gravesend and all i know about this is it is not yet finished and work has been stopped half way, also according to the bbc http://www.bbc.co.uk/kent/faith/sikh_temple.shtml the gurdwara will eventually accomodate 1200 worshipers and should of been completed in 2005. The havelock road gurdwara was built on schedule costing 17 million and houses 3000 worshipers according to the bbc http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/2898761.stm

Also the havelock road gurudwara is the largest gurdwara at the present time outside of india and is a pilerless structure.

Some of our fellow brothers and sisters are debating the fact on why the gurudwraa has cost so much but all i can say is the following. This is from the information i recived during the elections.

1) The havelock road guruwara was built on time and in budget. I.e the lowest tender for the piece of work.

2) All the accounts have been audited by the a reputable charted account in the city. this is tehre quote b. "In the opinion of Blackstone Franks LLP “final construction costs, were within the professional adviser’s advice and within the original budgets that were set by the trustees. "

Hope this helps you.

Hi WJKK WJKF

"If you have the facts with the sources it would be good, cos I am young and impressionable haha and I find things confusing cos the counter agruements arent backed by fact, so who do you back?"

I reaaly want to help your confused state of mind, so please let me know what facts your require about either party!!

All, Please can we all show some repect to each other on these forums. These forums should be used for discusion and debates, although we do have differing views please can we debate this in an adult manner and rember we are all fellow sikh brothers and sisters. So please do not use abusive language True Khalsa.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Wahegur Ji Ki Fateh

All,

When anyone dies, it is a very sad time for the family. Please can we stop using this for political motives.

Waheguru Ji Ka kHalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

Gurvah,

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

Fisrtly, you say sohi is a liar - Can your provide examples.

Secondly, The company did not go bankruopt, they were taken over

Finally, the gurdwara was completed by the lowest tender, please tell me how you can say that it should cost half of that. What are you comparing this to and please dont say gravesend as you need to compare like for like, not a rolls royce to a skoda.

Like they say empty vessels make the most noise, that refers to you and the rest of your lion group.

Also, if the sangat was decived, why have they coted for the BAAJ group again.

Gurvah, Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh,

You mention that no prrof is availble for the expednditure on havelock road gurdwara, may i suggest you read the q&a which was sent out to all members as it has the accounts as an appendix. Secondely you could request to see the audited accounts at the gurudwara.

You then say:

Whats he doing for the youth? NOTHING, Whats he done for the Kaum? NOTHING, Whats he done to promote Sikhi? NOTHING.

Firstly he is a president not the prime minister so what do you expect him to do for the kaum, is it not enough that he has placed the tuban that fell from all our heads when the old corrupt comitee were incharge, by brining peace, harmny to the gurwara and saving it from bankruptcy.

Secondley to promote sikhi, we have regular programmes in the gurdwara, transaltions of paath and kirtan so that people can actually understand what is being said, other faiths / community leaders are comming to the gurdwara and being taught about the sikh faith, Singh Sabha in Southall is also now known throught out the world , the havelock road gurdwara has got world attention because of its beauty, is that not promotinmg sikhi.

And finally for the youth, there are regular sikhi camps, the inroduction of the khalsa school. So please tell me what else you want Sohi to do.

A lot more can be achieved in Singh Sabha Southall, if people such as your self put as mich energy into doing sewa than writing rubbish posts on the net, and the lion party should actually do the same rather than watse the gur khars time on pathetic court cases.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

Gurvah, Just to bring to your attention it was Malhis group that were offering money for people to become members not Sohi's. My family were approached by a close assocuiate of the lion group and was offered 500 pounds to make members. Secondley the 700 names that Malhi had signed in his petion was forged. The reason i know of this is because my name and my familys names were all forged when we were out of the country. This is serious identuty fraud and we are persuing this directly with our solictors. So the question i ask is if the lion group can forge signatures what else can they do.

As a neutral member the reason i would vite sohi in rather than the lion group is that at least sohi has turned the Gurdwara around ince his time as president, do we all forget what the gurudwara state was before sohi took over. and were were the lion group then.

Gurvah,

Yes they did go to the first one and say they will answer the questions on the next show, so when they went on the 24th September, Punjab Radio and co decided they would not go on air, due to threats for malhis thugs around 50 of them. That is why they sent the letter and answer to all questions out to all the members.

Gurvah

You Said

"About 2 weeks ago there was a debate on panjab radio which 2 members of the gurdwara gave. Mr. Sohi and Mr. garcha promised to answer the points that were raised there, but never did! Why coz they cant!

Why dont you put that on the net 2 and give an unbiased opinion of whats really happening rather than taking sohi's side all the time. Use your commoin sense if you have any. "

The reason they did not go on air at opunjab radio was because Malhi had 50 thugs ourtside who threatened the presenter that if he allowed sohi to go on air they would bring harm to him and his family. This was backed up the presenter later that week on the radio.

Before you post replies get your facts right. Also did you not recive the answers by post, if you are a member you would of done. so i suggest you read that document.

AZAD, i am totaaly shocked by what you have said about malhi preeching on about the elections at the funeral of our fellow brothers. Funerals are a very sad time for anyone. and we should all uniote and give support to the familys, rather than going on about elections. Cant we just all put the elections on hold and actually look at whats more important in life. Parents losing their beloved children is the hardest thing anyone could be faced with. yet our leaders dont realise this. It is disgusting that we talk about politics on sad days like this. If Malhi did not have time for the parents now, what would he of been like as a president of the gurdwara.

All, lets take the issue of 18 million being spent on the new gurdwara. Here are some facts which can be proved.

Firstly, when the original tenders came in for the project they were up to 26 million, The plans of the gurdwara, the models and costs were all displayed. At that time Harpal Singh Brar was also on the comitee and he knew of these plans. All of this was passed overwhelmsly during the agms.

So i think it is to late to bring up this issue 6-7 years after everything was passed. As for accounts of the gurwra these can be obtained from the website, and i have personally looked through the audited accounts of the new gurdwar which can be obtained from the gurdwara. This was done by an independent body.

So i really cant understand why people are complaing now after all these years. We should all be proud of the new gurudwara rather giving unconstructive views.

I am extreamly shocked to hear fellow brothers and sisters saying that hindus should not be allowed to vote in gurudwara elections.

Basically 2 points, firstly the sikh relegion originated from Hinduism and Guru Teg Bahadur gave his life to save the Hindu and Sikh religion.

Secondely, it says numersous times in the guru granth sahib that the gurdwara doors are open to everyone, and when becoming a member of the gurudwara you actually state that you belive in the gurus.

Sat Sri Akal Painji,

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Wahegur Ji Ki Fateh,

I dont understand why parents would eant to push their children away from sikhi, and i admire you for keeping in your rehat. Wahegure is watching us all and i am sure that they are proud of you too.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa , Waheguru Ji Ki Fatheh

I was also very shocked and disturbed to what i saw i yesterday, my family all tunred up at the Gurudwara yesterday to vote, i was extreamly shocked with what i saw and the levels of intimdation we were getting from the lion party. Why is there a need to have secruity agencys wearing vote for lion rumaal, on the gurdwara premises. We are going away from all of our gurus teachings and beliefs. Do people forget we are in a guru khar and waheguru is watching us all.

A gurudwara should be a place of peace and humanity but people have recreated scenes you would see at a football match with thugs from both sides intimidating people.

They commitees really need to move voting from outside gurudwara premises, so that people who just want to visit the gurudwara can do so in peace and without the fear if intimidation. What did Sardar Gurmail Singh Malhi think he was doing with hired bodyguards, bouncers and thugs from outside of southall. SOme would think he was just looking for a fight.

Marf Karane, if anyone thinks i have said anything wrong.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa , Waheguru Ji Ki Fatheh

Waheguru Ji Ka Khlasa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh,

Brothers and Sisters,

I see from reading this thread that we are all debating the upcoming elections on Sunday the 1st October. And various members are just using this as an opportunity to abuse both groups. Firstly I would like to ask you , how many of you actually live in Southall, as from what I am reading it appears that none of you actually live in the area. As if you did you would know how singh sabha Southall has progressed under the leadership of Sardar Himmat Singh Sohi, I have been living in Southall for the past 40 years and would like to state some fact to you about Sri Guru Singh Sabha Southall.

Firstly when Sardar Himmat Singh Sohi, Became the president in the 1990s he came in when the gurdwara was in debt by 2.8 million pounds. You all should ask yourself how a gurudwara can get into so much debt when not a single penny was spent of the gurudwara.

With the blessing of Waheguru and the sangat, Sardar Himmat Singh he rescued the gurdwara and has transformed this into a world master piece. But yet, rather than someone saying thank you, all you can do is criticise.

We have some of our fellow brothers saying that the current committee does not do anything panthic,. As for Panthic , we have regular Kirtan, Paath and religious lectures. If this is not panthic please tell me what is.

As for the opposition part, just take a look at them a bunch of Chor who are just after the gurudwara’s assets. Were they asleep in the 90’s when the gurwara was in trouble. Why didn’t they do anything then?

Wahegruu ji ka Khalsa Waheguru ji ki Fateh

I attened the Sri Guru Singh Sabha AGM yesterday and was extreamly upset with the evnts that occured. We had members of the gurdwara, shouting and aggresively waving their arms at the existing commitee. This was beabdi of our maharaji. Where in Sikhism does it tell us that this type of behaviour is permitted. At the end of the day, they should of listened to the executive commitee's report and if any member was in disagreement this should of been addressed at the end of the meeting when members could of spoken.

I would like to say that this behaviour has disgraced our releigion in the community. As for Malhi, i listened to his speech when the meeting had been ended due to the behaviour of our fellow brothers and sisters. What i would like to ask Mr Malhi is that i am not jusding you on what you say, but when you walked on to the satge you should have taken your socks off. What example is the lion group setting by doing all this beadbi i think they want to bring the gurdwara back to the state in the late 80's early 90s where no one wanted to go to the gurdwara due to violence.