Raaj.Karega.Khalsa

That is interesting. My cousins say that in Germany their just left to get on with it, they dont feel the same 'clash of cultures' they had in the UK. I've only been to Germany for a couple of weeks so I couldnt really tell.

Also bare in mind that politeness costs nothing and doesnt really reflect what's going on inside. Like Australians, they use the word 'mate' even when they're arguing and fighting each other! But it's good that the natives are civilized in your neck of the woods. In some places it's like a live action Jeremy Kyle show.

I totally. agree to what you've said here actually....especially with 'just left to get on with it'. (but that happens in a literal way)

But to be fairly honest, I prefer the fake smiles or politeness than the constant 'feeling' of stares all around you in a bus or other public places. Not to say that no one stares here...but it's still not that bad.

I didn't say anyone had the right to rape her. Just like nobody has the right to rape me. One needs to be accountable for their own actions though. If I were walking around Brighton drunk as a skunk in the middle of the night accepting lifts from strange men cruising in their cars, there's an extremely good chance I'd be sodomized that night.

Just saying....individuals and parents need to take more responsibility for their actions. This week alone we've got that Canadian Sikh dad looking for answers as to why his daughter was murdered in Pakistan. She flew half way around the world to meet up with strange men she met on the internet. Now nobody deserves to be murdered but it was always pretty clear that the story was not going to end well. Both she and her parents need to take responsibility for that.

Same with the delhi rape victim. Drunk....with your lover.....in the middle of the night.....getting into strange vehicles in a particularly notorious and violent city. How was this ever going to end well ?

I understand what you're trying to say.

But let's take the other victim. The guy. He was back from the cinema. Drunk or not, I'm not sure. Got on this bus. Was he 'asking' to get beaten up?

How can we ever justify that someone just decides to beat him up?

Dubai, Singapore, Honk Kong, NY, Tokyo and Vancouver would all beg to differ.

My relatives talk quite highly of Germany and they dont experience the same racism or segregation that is in the UK. I dont know any Sikhs in France so I'll take your word for it.

Bhaji, I don't quite agree to your view about Germany here.

My mother is a German. When my naanni last visited me, she said that Brits (where I live, at least) are very welcoming and quite unlike the Germans in that sense. She had asked for directions to a park from a couple of people. She really liked it how everyone replied with the word 'love' or 'sweetheart' in a sentence! This is an observation of a 75-year-old German.

I'm from Germany as well (have asian looks though....see my DP ) But people here in the U.K, be it on the bus, in a shop...wherever.....are more polite and kinder than Germans.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfx8JaQa9Fw&feature=share

He says, "...Bhagwaan ka naam le kar, haath pakarti, pair pakarti...itna duraachaar nahi hota."

I can't believe how some self-proclaimed 'Guru' can say that a girl has to beg the man and fall at his feet in order to not get raped.

I think it would be an insult to my saliva if I ever spat on such inhumane creatures!

I actually this this fella's got some things to say that need to be said. Things that don't seem to have been said by others in fear of being beheaded by the hysteria built up over this incident.

The fella's saying the girl was out in the middle of the night with her boyfriend and was so wasted she accepted lifts from strange vehicles.

If not rape then what was going to be the likely outcome of such a scenario ?

What??!?

Even if the girl was walking around without any clothes on, no one has right to rape her.

No matter how wasted she was...whatever the time it was....whatever vehicle it was...no one has a right to rape someone.

I don't quite understand why people do it. Do they ask for ransoms etc. from the site owners?

whats not relevant?

LOL! well, it was 'about' the topic but not relevant to the discussion going on or let's say the question OP asked.

I think it was a wrong choice of words. I should have typed "discussion" instead of "topic".

Not relevant to the topic.

Wow! the discussion is on the 3rd page already and no quarrels and fights yet....nice to see a sane-minded discussion for a change. I wish it could always be like this....

(I hope my post doesn't jinx it!! :blink2: )

Not sure if its the right way to come into Sikhi if its because of a girl he is in love with? We don't refrain from degrading our own Sikh boys/girls when they convert to other faiths due to romantic relationships, so lets not bend the rules when the tables have turned.

Mehtab Singh Bhaji,

Although I clearly agree with what you've said, as I've 'liked' the post as well....I simply couldn't stop thinking about this video that was linked onto Gurmat Bibek forum.

Don't get me wrong bhaji, it's a very inspirational video but Bhai Saheb ji say that after a month of keeping bibek, his body got weaker than before....also because he didn't know how to cook very well. So, after someone's advice, his mata ji got Amrit as well...so that Bhai saheb would agree to eat the food prepared my his mother.

Now, I'm totally not saying it's wrong. In fact it is wonderful....like bhai saheb explain in the video that because of Bibek his mother got Amrit...then his father...then brother....and now 11 members of the family are Amritdhaari and strictly Sarbloh bibeki.

What I can't stop thinking about is...that Bhai Saheb ji's mother also got Amrit coz of the reason stated above?

Would it be wrong?

The final outcome's amazing! But that single decision that mata ji made, to take amrit...so that she could feed Bhai saheb....I dunno.... What are your views about it?

Hope I made a bit sense to get my point across. :huh2:

Post 1

If you accept the way something is, it doesn't necessarily mean you agree with it or does it?

This was the question.

Post 6

A friend of mine inferred that accepting a system of though that is considered deviant is agreeing with it.. not sure they are still my friend now thought after the tiff!

The was 'probably' the OP's recent debate.

Lol! Haha I did exactly the same what happened to me. I your sister as well

Back to the topic. I wasn't very sure about the meaning of the word deviant. So obviously I looked up, and this is what the dictionary says:

de·vi·ant (d v - nt)

adj. Differing from a norm or from the accepted standards of a society.

n. One that differs from a norm, especially a person whose behavior and attitudes differ from accepted social standards.

Now, the question would be, which society's norm? There are so many different societies and cultures and each one has different norms. The best bit: more or less all of it is man-made. Where there is Guru-ki-matt, i.e. Gurmat, there is no doubt ....because of its being the only norm!

I would've responded but it doesn't make much difference cos it's admin's job, isn't it?

But, if you're looking for votes.... I agree there should be a spiritual section too.

On the other hand, wouldn't that be a bit similar to the Intellectual discussions section?

Bhaji,

I think you meant these tuks:

I stopped at seven because seven is my lucky number

This is a little confusing lol...

I don't understand what

Madh Saptak: sa re ga ma pa dha ni

Taar Saptak: SA RE GA MA PA DHA NI

Komal sur : -re-, -ga-, -dha-, -ni-, -RE-, -GA-, -DHA-, -NI-

means lol.I never learnt any of this in kirtan class!Is there any videos on YouTube that describes any of this?

Yeah, I thought I should be expanding a bit on this...but then I thought it would be an insult to you in case you already did know! :bl:

Well, I'm assuming that you're aware of the basic sa re ga ma pa dha ni keys on the Harmonium. Those keys on the middle of the Harmonium are Madh Saptak.

Madh : middle

Sapt : 7 (oooh! your lucky number )

Saptak: containing 7. It's technically an octave....but in Indian classical music the last Sa belongs to the next saptak. Also, the literal translation of an octave would be 'ashtak'. So, doesn't make much sense there.

An image about saptak on Harmonium.

Mandr : lower (dunno if that's the literal meaning)

Taar : higher ( " )

The above picture shows the saptaks very well but a horrible depiction od komal and Ma teevar sur.

Usually the Mandr saptak keys are denoted with a dot beneath them and the Taar saptak keys with the dot above them. But then again, it's in English.

Compare the image below to the one above to see the way octaves can be moved around according to the Sa you choose.

The followinf images are a Punjabi notation, from the website of Jawaddi Taksaal and shows a bit how keys are normally written.

Simple explanation for Ma teevar sur: When all the shudh(pure/normal) keys and Komal keys are marked, there is only one left, right next to Shudh Ma. That is a Teevar Ma.

Now, one might ask why this is Teevar and the other Komal.

In this case, Teevar : slightly higher

Komal : slightly lower (komal = soft)

This video explains a bit about the sargam and how Sa can be changed accoording to the scale you want to sing on.

Hope this helps a bit :smile2:

Dear Singh1234567 Bhaji, (I sometimes wonder why the numbers stopped at 7...)

I've never before written a notation in English. I'm not aware about the standard key map of their transliteration to English...so, I'm gonna make my own to get the point across.

Madh Saptak: sa re ga ma pa dha ni

Taar Saptak: SA RE GA MA PA DHA NI

Komal sur : -re-, -ga-, -dha-, -ni-, -RE-, -GA-, -DHA-, -NI-

1 2 3 4 | 5 6 7 8 | 9 10 11 12 | 13 14 15 16

SA SA SA -dha- ma -ga- -ga- -ga- SA ni SA SA SA SA ni -dha-

Jha garh dang na garh dang ba garh dang ba je

1 2 3 4 | 5 6 7 8 | 9 10 11 12 | 13 14 15 16

-ga- -ga- ma ma -dha- -dha- ni ni SA SA SA ni SA SA SA SA

gaa garh dang ga ji ma ha ga j ga je

1 2 3 4 | 5 6 7 8 | 9 10 11 12 | 13 14 15 16

-GA- -GA- -GA- -GA- -GA- -GA- MA MA -GA- -GA- SA ni SA SA SA SA

gaa garh dang ga ji ma ha ga j ga je

The above notation is a only a very basic version of what they've sung throughout the shabad. If you listen carefully, Bhai Saheb have sung many different versions of the chorus! Amazing!!!

Also, Kaagardang Kaati Kataari Karaakang is along the keys of Gaagarhdang gaji mahaa Gaj Gaaje.

I hope the notation helps a bit. But I repeat, this is only a basic and very much simpler version of how it's been sung. It's almost hard to match the way Bhai Saheb have sung.

Bhai Balbir Singh!!! Epic Raagi and he's getting a award too

Is he?

When?

What award?

Haye Rabba!!! This feels SO humiliating!!!! :ashamed: Is he intending to appear on the show dressed like this?

It would take a bit of time for me to write it all down and so on...but if there is specific scale or 'Sa' that you would like to use...I could write it accordingly! :smile2:

In the meantime, have you listened to Bhai Baljeet Singh's version? :pluggedin:

Why do you not want them to use the old blanket? Is it because it's old or is it unusable?

"He stated the preliminary investigation revealed that Ms Gill had come to Pakistan to learn black magic."

Good God! :blink2:

Just like you and me

Yes, probably from the exterior...but what was their thought process? What were their vibes? I find it very hard to imagine that they could simply be someone like you and me! I dunno may be it IS that simple and the Shaheedi they attained was all Guru's Kirpa!!!

Is it actually true that there's a ban on alcohol trade/consumption in Gujrat?

Editted: oh! here it is! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prohibition_in_India#Gujarat

I wonder what made them to do that? It can't be because of Dwaarka (religious grounds) coz the ban is in other three states and a union territory as well.

I don't understand. Why only these few states?

There was another Brahmin family from Patiala (who actually had the same surname as my folks) who had 7 sons. All 7 turned into Babbar Singhs and all attained Shaheedi. I wish I could get more info about them.

Amazing! Waheguru! :waheguru: Just reading about such stuff gives me goosebumps. I can't imagine how such people would've actually been like in real life.