Bijla Singh

I need information on all the false and anti-Gurmat statements made by Gurbachan Thailand and Dhunda in their lectures and writings. Can someone point out where they make these statements? If it is a video/audio, please provide the time if you have it. It is required to get our local Gurdwara to not invite them.

In the context we are discussing only groups who claimed to be the Guru or prophet. Masands fall into a different group.

Masands were not punished for personal reasons. But Mohammad killed others for claiming what he thought was his personal right.

I don't know the particulars of the case. For USA one gets the PCC from passport office. One can get it from local police station but no past record is really checked. Bribe works magic. For being an Internet supporter alone will not get you in any trouble.

With Guru Sahib's kirpa, new Sikh Freedom has been launched. We will try to keep it updated on regular basis.

The answer is provided on this page: http://searchsikhism.com/hind11

Just to clarify, I am not sikh answers. The website is not mine and the id on your forum was not registered by me.

I have not read Gyan Parbodh but I have studied other Banis by Guru’s Kirpa and I came to the irrefutable conclusion that Gurmat is unique and far above Vedas. Vedas are not revealed but Gurbani is. Vedas are stuck in maya but Gurbani is free from it. I have read works of Hindu scholars on Six Hindu Systems and while they are in variant with each other in terms of reality, knowledge, goal, moksha, creation and eternality they are all different fundamentally from Gurmat. Sure there are similarities to some extent but Gurmat by far exceeds them in presenting the absolute truth and remains unique.

Vedas used to be three initially and much later a fourth one was added. At that time Vedas were nothing more than animal and human sacrifice, yantra/mantra tantrum, worshipping idols and numerous gods/goddesses and women having sex with horses etc. According to Swami Dharma Teertha, Upnishads were written by Kshatriyas to counter Brahmins but latter eventually won over the political supremacy and incorporated Upnishads with Vedas. Vedas advocating multi-god worship, absolute Nirgun, Omnipresent reality, prakriti and purusha being two eternal realities and having no God at all are all contradictory beliefs. So how can a serious student ever consider Vedas to possess the same essence as Gurbani? It is not possible. Picking and choosing one chapter alone does not justify it at all.

Yet again you did not prove how the interpretation I provided is wrong. Just because there are three layers of Vedas as you claim, it doesn’t de facto prove me wrong. I believe Gurmat is superior to others and if this means bias to you then I am biased towards the truth. I cannot hold any other philosophy at par with the truth revealed in Gurbani. This doesn’t make me “hindu phobic”.

Also, you only provided a dictionary definition of fascism. What does that prove? Absolutely nothing. I am not an authoritarian government nor a social organization and I am also not part of any. Singh Sabha was a religious revival organization that did not advocate politics at all. So how was it or I am fascist? What you need to prove is how I have elements of fascism in me which you have utterly failed in. It is easy to play the blame game but without providing any evidence you will end up running every time.

I want to iterate although it may not carry any weight for you that I do not hate Hindus or their philosophies. I do not have anything against you personally. I simply oppose anti-Sikhi elements and individuals which you misconstrue as hateful. I do not wish to brainwash anyone. I only share the information I get from books written by gursikhs and no one is compelled to agree with me. Regardless, my mind stays peaceful with Naam.

The article has nothing against Khalistan. The author does seem ignorant of the concept of Khalsa Rule and out of reality about the beginning of Khalsa Rule.

And the only way I guess you can uphold your twisted “traditional” views is by throwing insults and labeling others with derogatory terms without any shred of evidence. Speaks multitude on what great job sampardas are doing these days in imparting education and teaching logic which does not go beyond ad-hominem. One can only wonder what the “awakened” Taksalis would do with such an education. Follow the footsteps of Sant Ji or become modern day mahants who are hell bent on destroying every originality from Gurmat and assimilate it into Hinduism.

DSGj, from the poetry it doesn't sound like rachna of Guru Sahib because it is not as rich and powerful compared to other compositions. One pauri seems to be a copy and derivation of a pauri from Vaars. I think Sodhak committee must have made a sound decision after much deliberation.

It's funny how you are mentioning most of scholars who undermines limit gurbani/gurmat into vikyaran rules only. That itself is blampshey as interpertation comes static and shallow....it does not or rather i say one who limits gurbani to vikyara does not let gurbani resoanate with gurbani own real essence nature- absolute existence truth, experience/perception it rather limit gurbani into some structured conceptual and abstract theology out there somewhere up there seperate from the creation (lot of christians sects have done same mistakes by limiting bible to watear down dumb down one liner interptations which one cannot relate to in expereince).

You need to learn to write better and please check your grammar from next time on. Since you don’t know the basics of grammar what evidence do you have to prove that grammar limits Gurbani? How foolish to say that Gurbani has unlimited contradictory meanings and it is not structured at all like it is manmade and not divinely revealed. If you are so keen on stressing unlimited meanings then what problem do you have with the ones provided by the other side? Why must everyone agree with what you say or your sampardas? Fascism at best.

Well if that seems complex to you, just do dhian of ikongkar for 1 month and come back on sikhsangat and let us know how much vikayaran helped you in your transcedence.

Experience and grammar are two different things. Grammar pertains to how Gurbani is written and what meanings it conveys. Experience is limitless. Are you assuming the authority of Panj Pyare to tell others what to do naam japp of?

Whilst some vikayaran is required to understand gurbani, over fascisation with vikayaran causes hindrances, road blocks, dumb one down to one small grammar aspects, causes road block in one's spiritual devolpment as one is not willing to accept anubhav arths in one expereince because of pre conditioning

So how do you determine which rules to accept and which ones to reject? Grammar keeps Gurbani from contradictions, distortions and misinterpretation. Otherwise one is free to offer any meanings. Again, experience is different and anubhav meanings will never contradict grammar. As one’s anubhav increases he will reveal higher grammar rules.

I do recall i posted sargun and nirgun bhakti couplet from sri sarbloh granth, again you limited (interesting couplet which indicated intertwin relationship with sargun and nirgun aspects of vahiguroo and bhagti and gyan) interpertation to vikyaran rule totally ignoring meta physical frame work of gurmat, its like limited/confing poetry to vikyaran framework without looking at other aspects

Your as well as sampardaic understanding of Gurmat Reality is heavily influenced by Vedanta of Shankra which is contrary to Gurmat. Not just Bhai Randhir Singh but Bhai Vir Singh has also rejected it in his books. I do not mind samparda interpretation. They have their view but I do not categorically label them and throw insults like you nor do I call their contribution and seva as “crap”.

It's same thing, read yogi swami rama books, neo tat khalsa are hilarious, they think doing some hatha yoga breathing, they got something unique which they fall so proud of ..i m proud of gurbani and sikhi into but NOT into false prides...neo tat khalsa people are so self absorbed, in their own vanity one day just like every other neo nazi groups will pass away in their own flith/vanity....also look into guru gorakh natha shabad surat yog as well..i m not going to spoon feed.

So swami rama defines what Gurmat is? Absolutely ridiculous. Ok, so all other Sikhs are bad/nazis blah blah blah...How does that make them wrong? You live in a samparda box and nothing else exists. This is intolerant behavior and attitude.

In vedanta, bhram is absolute existence, how da hell is its outside of creation? Again stop talking through your nose.

Which Vedanta are you referring to? You are so ignorant about Vedanta and yet fail to realize it. You seem delusional. In Shankra’s Vedanta, Brahm is absolute which refers to being non-immanent. Also, world is maya but Brahm is not. Therefore, both are separate. It is a paradox and Shankra was refuted by Hindu scholars yet ignorant Sikhs are still attached to it.

Again you are looking at vedanta as abstract static theology rather spiritual development progress thats why you running into issues..no worries you will ran similiar issues what many messages you will come across in gurbani if you don't fix your rigid static mindset.

Vedanta and spiritual progress? You must be kidding. World is maya so anything you do in it is also part of maya. Any progress is also maya. Where does that leave the Reality? Nowhere. True experience comes from Naam Simran and I am ecstatic with it.

for exmaple - asa di // of whole world is god and shalok nauvan message? world is false..how do you reconcile?

It is very simple. But you wouldn’t understand the context.

Hindu coloring? Nah rather - celebrating diversity, common ground, interfaith patching which neo tat khalistanis hate and feel threatened..i have learnt sikhi from samparda, and also one of gursikhs who have spent many years both singh sabha and with nirmale..

So how wise is it to insult the very people you have learned from and call their work “crap”? Interfaith means sharing beliefs not mixing beliefs. You seem to be stuck in a time period when idols were installed in Darbar Sahib and everyone thought Sikhi was part of Hinduism. Diversity and contradictions are definite meanings. Learn the difference first.

See how intolerant/insecure neo nazi tat khalsa mindset is? Just because i mentioned i spent discussing things with hindu freinds at work, this intolerant bigotry mindset thinks its hindu coloring and up in arms..what you going to do ? This isn't some banana republic khalistan of yours...!!..Stop patronizing , go stick your attitude where sun does not shine..!!

It’s fine to have interfaith dialogue and even learn Hindu faith from Hindus but they are no authority on Sikhi. So it’s fine for you to learn Sikhi from Hindus but not for me to learn Sikhi from Sikhs. Why do you have double standard and bias and hatred towards other Sikhs? Your cheap insults have no effect on me. This isn’t personal. How is it about Khalistan in any way? I know it isn’t republic in your mind. It is monarchy where only your viewpoint must be heard and all others labelled as nazis and killed. You must be spiritually sick or having a mental breakdown.

Pandit kartar singh dhakka has no school of thought, it was stand alone

One doesn’t need to be part of a hindu color/RSS mindset school of thought to be acceptable. Don’t pick one scholar out of a list and think you have properly addressed the point. He was part of a group and He agreed with the interpretations of other scholars.

Seriously man, i should go back to do some bhagti and you should go back get a proper education and detoxify yourself..your are wasting your time..

With your grammatical errors and sentence lacking proper structure and punctuations, I am not the one lacking education. It is you who lacks basic understanding of grammar. I simply posted a one line post and you turned it into a futile bickering. Why did you waste the time? You could’ve easily posted your viewpoint and respectfully disagreed. I would’ve had no qualms over it.

you arguments won't last a minute infront of real scholars/gyani in the panth such as gyani pinderpal singh, gyani sher singh, sant hari singh randhawale, bhai gurdev singh ji, gyani kulvant singh..!!

This is funny. I never claim to be a scholar or as learned as such gursikhs. I learn from them as much as I can and respect them equally even when I disagree with them rather than calling their work “crap”. They are all my elder brothers and I consider them a part of Khalsa family where we may have differences but at the end we are all children of the same father. You, however, seem to be indifferent.

Again, still waiting on any proofs on how I or Singh Sabhas are nazis/rss etc.

There isnt even much pre-Singh Sabha literature let alone a full teeka. Just because during Singh Sabha much literature was written and published doesnt mean it went against Gurmat. The interpretation was presented by Kahan Singh Nabha in 1899 who learned it from sampardas most of which had fallen prey to Hindu influence by the time. Bhai Randhir Singh also advocates the same interpretation as well as Pandit Kartar Singh Dakha who beat Hindu scholars on various subjects in open debates numerous times.

the first time i realized how insecure neo tat khalsa were, when i read your sarbloh granth translations regarding gyan and bhagti

I didnt know I had written a teeka of any granth. If gyan and bhagti are your topics of interest then why are they missing from your posts and language?

its literally showed how desperate/insecure you were regarding your wrapped neo tat khalsa idealogy that you have adhere to

Without actually defining the terms tat khalsa idealogy you are making no sense. Typical samparda approach. No valid arguments, just personal attacks.

I call spade a spade as i see there is systematic brainwashing of youths and i choose to uphold old traditional gurmat than reformist one

Old is not always gold and samprdas are the ones who wish to reform Sikhi to make RSS easy to absorb Sikhism into Hinduism. Panj Pyare avtars of hindu gods, kachera from hanuman etc. is all the Hindu crap which Taksal and sampardas have been unable to defend against ignorant missionary fools. How well do you think it can defend such nonsense at an academic level?

we hosted all types of right wing/left nut jobs on sikhawareness so we know all different types

Yep, you know it all and all others are wrong. What a Sikhi you are preaching.

You have nothing else to offer against same old crap against vedas by rejecting all of it

Since Gurbani rejects the authority of Vedas, I have no problem doing the same. You are indirectly stating that Gurbani has nothing else to offer. By the way, you still havent provided any rational refutation. Of I forgot, you are completely ignorant of the Gurbani grammar just like your sampardas.

if you reject theological framework of vedas-vaishvanvas/vishiadvaita/advaita-vedant you are inadvertently rejecting gurbani aspects

False. You do not know anything about theology of Vedas let alone Gurmat. There are variations of Advaita Vedanta each one conflicting and going against one another. Vedanta itself has many contradictory versions and it is only one school of thought. There are other schools in Upnishads that are atheistic and Gurmat is contrary to such schools. Gurbani advocates monotheistic, Jainism is atheistic, Vedanta is monistic as well as pantheistic etc. Some believe in multiple permanent realities and some assume no creator of the world. You seriously need to study before making a fool of yourself by comparing lofty Gurmat theology to something wholly incongruent as Vedic thought.

advait/bhagti aspect in gurmat as its theological/etmology framework is one and same

False. Apart from same terminology, the definition as well as philosophical aspects are different. You are implying that Gurbani is not revealed and whatever exists in Gurbani had already existed in Vedas. This is what RSS says that Gurbani is summary of the Vedas. So finally, you show your true colors.

Ultimate Bhram/divine expereince of sikh saints and hindu saints is one and same, bhramgyan avastha- turiya avastha/turiya atith avastha is one and same

Absolutely not. How do you know they are same apart from the same terminology? Yogis consider their dasam duar to be something different than what Sikh mystic saints have described. In Vedanta there is no such thing as brahmgyan that exists in Gurmat. In Vedanta, Brahm is completely outside the creation and everything you do and know is part of maya and remains an illusion. Hence, not real. So how can you even get to know Him let alone experience Him? It is not possible. In Gurmat, the experience is real because the Reality exists in the world.

I have spent good time with hindu collegue friends

No wonder why you are completely lost and confused about Gurmat essence and always give it a Hindu coloring. Ever thought about learning Gurmat theology and philosophy from Sikhs? I guess that sounds farfetched to you.

I respect Sant Gurbachan Singh but it doesnt mean I have to agree with him every time. There are other myriads of scholars like Pandit Kartar Singh Dakha, Giani Ditt Singh, Bhai Kahan Singh Nabha, Bhai Vir Singh and Bhai Randhir Singh who have written on such subjects. I trust them also.

To understand Hinduism, Vedas and Upnishads I trust Dasgupta, Radhakrishnan and other authorities on the subjects. Limiting yourself to one person is foolish and trapping yourself in a box.

You still havent proved how I am or Singh Sabha is the same as RSS/Fascism/Nazi. Do you lack integrity to prove it?

There you go with your cheap shots. For your ignorant brain, Singh Sabha was not a reform movement but a revival movement. This has been proven on academic level. Numerous books have been written on Singh Sabha yet I doubt you ever went beyond the literature published by Damdami Taksal. If Sikhi isn’t insecure then why are you so insecure about your personal beliefs? Why can’t you ever prove yourself right by providing proofs instead of attacking and belittling others? You seem to be stuck at the same point for the last 10 years. Calling anything wrong doesn’t make it wrong. Where’s the proof and what reasoning do you have to prove it wrong?

You have no idea what RSS, Fascist and Nazi ideology is all about yet a fool like you has the audacity to compare Sikhs with such infamous and notorious groups. I suggest you pick a dictionary first and read the definition. Is that all you have learned from sampardas and company of sant/mahapurash/brahmgyanis? I am willing to debate you on this anytime anywhere provided that you provide proofs and debate it with rules of logic rather than hold one person as “know-it-all” by elevating him to God’s level and consider him to be the only ultimate authority. Your own post and language used show how intolerant and insecure you are as well as being a bigot against others’ viewpoint. These are the elements of fascism.

I didn’t write a post to attack any personal, viewpoint or a jatha. You could’ve done the same but I guess sampardas are not teaching good virtues anymore and the only “logical” defense they have is to throw insults. When will you grow up?

If your comment is directed to me then:

The same argument can be applied to you as well. Maybe your buddhi is defected for considering the wrong meanings.

Interpretation I provided is not only according to grammar but also in consonance with the rest of Gurbani. These meanings are not new nor invented by Singh Sabha. The translation is wrong because it throws the whole context of the pauri out of the flow. I did not blame Gurbani. I blame translation to be wrong.

Please read Shabad 2 veechar here: searchsikhism.com/islam1

The plan is to have Pakistan Gurdwaras gallery on Sikh Freedom because it serves to tell how only a Sikh government can properly take care of Sikh shrines in Muslim countries. So it is more suitable there which is why I removed it from searchsikhism where I wish to keep information related to the Sikh religion only. But I do not have the updated photos of the Gurdwaras. I have heard, some have improved while some deteriorated. Most non-historic Gurdwaras have been converted to office buildings, shops etc.

Sikh-Maratha article is not really an article but part of a rebuttal that was part of a long debate. It briefly compares Sikhs and Marathas in terms of plunder, rape and enemy treatment especially women. The rebuttal is here: http://sikhfreedom.com/eunuch2.html

The debate inspired me to write an article on Indian Fascism: http://sikhfreedom.com/fascism.html

And also a separate Sikh-Maratha article is in plan after I read through some of more history books I have acquired recently. Right now, the goal is to convert the html site to drupal otherwise uploading new content and managing it is very time consuming.

The plan is to upload a new article/book on searchsikhism every month and convert the sikhfreedom site and then update it with new content. But it is all in the hands of Gods Will. Guru Rakha

Khushwant Singh accused Sant Ji of threatening to kill him and spoke against him when he was there but Khushwant made up this lie because he was not there in Manji Sahib and Sant Ji never met him. Also, Sant Ji never made such a remark because it is not found in any of the sources nor confirmed by any of other Sikhs.

Sant Ji openly refuted statements and threats of anti-Sikhs. He didn't care who it was. His speech doesn't prove he knew Khushwant Singh or had anything against him. I will try to find the passage from the book and post it.