Bijla Singh
-
Posts
1,242 -
Joined
-
Last visited
-
Days Won
9
Content Type
Profiles
Calendar
Forums
Posts posted by Bijla Singh
-
-
Again, a Sikh should look for answers. You only question and not think clearly here. Eating meat is against Sikhi. Meat eaters will not be allowed in the country. They will have to stop eating meat if they want to live in Khalistan and also stop smoking and drinking. There are people in Sikhism who eat meat but if there are any groups in Sikhism who want to eat meat in Khalistan then all would go to Akaal Takhat Sahib and their representatives will sit down and have a debate based on Gurbani. group that will justify its arguments based on Gurbani will win and laws will be passed accordingly. 13 colonies did the same thing. so can we. If there is black market the government will take actions and stop it. besides, Sikhs won't run these black markets. Sikhs know how to make honest living. if other groups try to do it they will be kicked out. Again, government will do its best.
Killing of an animal will be illegal in Khalistan. Anyone doing so will be met with hard punishments. If an animal dies the government will come up with a solution. Not so hard. okay, tell me what do you think the solution should be?
Khalsa knows how to serve humanity and providing better way of life to poor and homeless will be our top priority. Khalsa always help needy and give shelter to homeless and hungry people. The government will build homes for these people, provide jobs and give enough salaries so they can live on their own. They will pay taxes which would benefit the government. Their spending will go into circulation of money and....good things happen. Take some economic courses and you will know what I mean. Then they can pay off for their homes and so on....
if the government tak
es care of these people then hardly anyone will starve to death. But even if we assume that there are still people who are hungry then what do we have Gurdwaras for? Langar of Guru Raamdas Ji at Darbar Sahib is open 24/7. many hindu workers eat there. I don't think anyone will starve to death in Khalistan. Sikhs are hard working people. They live in all countries. I have never seen any Sikh on the side of a highway asking for lift or putting his hand out begging for food or money. Sikhs came to USA and other countries and now they are millionaires and successful in every profession. They are all surviving. If they can be successful in foreign countries then why wont they in their own country?
You are very wrong. Not all Sikhs will decide to move to Khalistan. This argument is never right. How likely is this possible? What if all hindus decide to move to India? do they have room there or food? I don't think so. Everybody do not decide to do same thing at the same time. Also, Khalistan will not be limited to Punjab only. We will have real Punjab which would include Haryana and Himachal. When we win the war against indian government both parties will sit down and decide who gets what part of the land and how much. When we win we will decide it because indian government will have to give it up because losing party always does. If there is a peaceful resolution then they must agree with our conditions and we won't be asking for Punjab only. We will try to get land as much as possible. we gave 93% of our heads so statistically we must get 93% of the land but don't worry we will take what’s rightfully ours. Also don't worry about the hindus and muslims living there. When Mexico gave California to USA they dealt with same situation and solved it. So will we.
Again, Khalistan will not be limited to Punjab only so there will be plenty of room to grow food. Also, we can import more food if needed. We know how to do business.
Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh
0 -
"I will listen. I am currently reading the books that Pakhandeebunga has suggested. And I am reading the history of Khalistan from the website that Pakhandeebunga has given."
Its a nice start. If you are a Sikh you would rather find solutions than just questioning.
0 -
As far as I know it is only Sarab Loh Granth that talks about giving guruship to Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Other granths like Gur Partap Sooraj Parkash and Panth Parkash written in 19th century do not talk about Guru Ji giving Guruship to Guru Granth Sahib Ji. So this is pretty solid proof to give to naamdharis and others.
0 -
Pretty good story I found on the net. Those who have not read must read it.
Guru Gobind Singh in Nazi Germany!!!
MIRACLE DURING WORLD WAR II
Bhai Ranjit Singh
Kaki Pind, Jalandhar
In 1964, when some of the holy weapons of Guru Gobind Singh were brought back from England, an Englishman, in complete Sikh form accompanied the weapons. The Englishman was asked by someone the reason for his adopting the Sikh form. Was it due to respect for the weapons or was there any other reason? The explanation given by him at Gurudwara Bangla Sahib is being reproduced for the benefit of the readers.
" My name was A. David. I happened to be commanding a Sikh Regiment during World War II. My Regiment suffered very heavy losses fighting the Germans. Most of the "jawans" (soldiers) of my Battalion were killed. Only a few survived and we were all surrounded by the Germans. As there were very remote chances of our survival, I called the Subedar major of the Battalion and informed him about our precarious situation. Death was facing us and there was no chance of our survival. I suggested to him that the jawans should individually attempt to escape from the enemy encirclement and save their lives.
"The Subedar Major replied, 'We cannot bring ignominy to the Sikh Regiment by running away from the battlefield.' However, he had a suggestion that they should perform "Akhand-Path" ceremony and take action as per the Divine Hukam (Holy Command). Accordingly, necessary security arrangements were made and the Akhand-Path ceremony was completed without interruption. After the supplicatory prayer ("Ardas"), the Divine Hukam from the Holy Book was
explained to me by Subedar Major and the religious teacher ("granthi"). As per the Divine Hukam, we should not abandon the battlefield; victory will be ours.
"Then I conveyed to them the miracle that I had witnessed during the supplicatory prayer. While standing with my eyes closed during the Ardas, a fully armed Sikh on horseback with a unique grandeur appeared in front of me and ordered 'Follow me.' I pointed out the direction in which the fully armed Sikh went after giving the order and asked them about the identity of the warrior. The Subedar Major said that as per my description, he was none other than Guru Gobind Singh.
"So, we got ready and launched an attack in the direction pointed out by the Guru. After a short while, we were able to break through the German encirclement and save ourselves. We then got in touch with the Brigade Cammander on wireless and requested for additional help.
" After the war, I reflected upon the incident and the divine personality who had saved my and my men's lives from an impregnable enemy encirclement in a desperate situation by ordering me to follow him. I made up my mind to follow him for the rest of my life. I resigned from the Army and along with my daughter, embraced Sikhism with the initiation ceremony of the Khalsa. Now my name is Devinder Singh and my daughter's name is Surjit Kaur.....This is due to the blessings of Guru Gobind Singh that he took pity on us and made us his disciples."
This incident was narrated to me by my younger brother Sardar Raghbir Singh (Retired Subedar), who happened to be present at Gurudwara Bangla Sahib on the day the Englishman (Devinder Singh) narrated his above mentioned personal experience.
E-mailed by Daniel Schumacher, Berlin, Germany
0 -
well said Bikram Singh. hope voiceless sees the truth but who knows.
0 -
No offence to anyone. Some Hindu Jokes. hope you like 'em.
A Letter from Hindu's Mom
I am well here and hoping you in the same well there. I'm writing this letter slowly because I know you can't read very fast. We don't live where we used to when you were here because your dad read in the newspaper that most accidents happen 20 miles from home, so we moved 20 miles.
I won't be able to send the address as the last Hindus who stayed here took the house numbers with them for their new house so they would not have to change their address. Hopefully by next week we will be able to take our earlier address Plate here, so that our address will remain the same too.
This place is very nice. It even has a washing machine, situated right above the commode. I am not sure if it works. Last week I put in three shirts, pulled the chain and haven't seem them since. The weather here isn't too bad. It rained only twice last week. First time it rained for five days and second time for three days.
The coat you wanted me to send you, your aunt said it will be little too heavy to send in the mail with all the metal buttons, so we cut them off and put them in the pockets. Your father has another job and has 500 men under him. He is cutting the grass at the cemetery.
By the way, I took our bahu to our club's poolside. The manager is real tapory. He told her that two piece swimming suit is not allowed at the club. We were confused as to which piece should we remove? Your sister had a baby this morning. The doctors are unsure whether it's a boy or girl so I don't know if your are an uncle or aunt.
Your uncle, Ramesh, fell in nearby well. So
me men tried to pull him out, but he fought them off bravely and drowned. First we decided to throw his body in the holy Ganga but he started swimming on his back so we had to cremate him and he burnt for three day.
Your best friend, Pankaj, is no more. he died trying to fulfill his father's last wish. His father had wished to be buried at sea after he died and your friend died in the process of digging a grave for his father. There isn't much more news this time. Nothing much has happened.
P.S.: Beta, I was going to send you some money but by the time I realized, I had already sealed off this envelop.
Bhagvaan Tujeh Sukhi Rakey, Beta. Ram Ram
-----------------------------------------------
Baking Brahminis
One day Seeta and Geeta walked into a tanning salon. Seeta said, " A tan for 2 please!"
The cashier said, " Ok," filled out a form for them and asked, "are you two sisters?"
They chuckled and replied, " No, we aren't even Catholic."
----------------------------------------------
Seeta Goes to the Library?
Once Seeta went to the library to get a book. A few days later, she returns and says to librarian at the counter, "This book was very boring. It had too many characters and too many numbers, so I would like to return it."
The librarian says to the other librarian, "So here is the person who took our phone book!"
0 -
I think enough has been said. So lets move onto some better discussion. Why argue with voiceless. we know what we want. talking to him is like "bhains kay aagay been bajana". voiceless i think you should leave or stay voiceless.
0 -
oh man, yeah you do have too much time to write. I don't know why we even discussing hinduism here but what you wrote are just theories. every religion has a prophet who started the religion but not in hinduism. rama and krishna were born in hinduism. they did not start it. i have not read vedas and puranas but i have heard many scholars say that the word "hindu" is not written in hindu scriptures. for example, Sant Jarnail Singh Ji clearly says in one of his speeches that the word "hindu" is no where found in hindu scriptures. but if you say it does then provide quotes so I clear my doubts. Also, Gurbani rejects the authority of vedas and puranas (tell me if you need quotes) which means they do not lead the life to god. I say hinduism does not have one definition which defines hindus because many scholars say it. read "Hum Hindu Nahin" in which you will find work of many eastern and western scholars who believe the same. but if you disagree then give us definition of hindu in few words. for example, Sikh=Disciple. furthermore, hindus do not have one base scripture. they have many. four vedas conflict with each other. each scripture has its own story on how ganesha was born and how hanuman was born. but if you disagree then tell me which one is the main one and why? did ramma and krishan give their own message to unite the humanity. as far as i know they both followed the same rituals like worship the idol and go to jungles with brahmins to get education.
Guru Ji rejected rituals and methods of hinduism which means rejecting hinduism. Rituals and methods of hinduism is hinduism. How can you say I reject taking Amrit but do not reject Sikhism? Hinduism is followed by millions b
ut more people does not mean better religion. 85% of indians are uneducated and even more than that have never read vedas and puranas. only 13% are upper caste brahmins. most of the indian population is lower caste sudras and they are not considered hindus. so tell me who is really a hindu?
"They killed our brothers and sisters, destroyed Darbar Sahib and distributed sweets to the army. Sikhs are being humiliated in the movies, media, radio and in everyday society, not to mention those sick Sikh jokes. they want to destroy our religion, culture and language. Now tell me who is the one with hatred."
you did not answer my question. they started this hatred not us. I did not say I hate them because they are hindus but because what they do to Sikhs. It is their fault not ours. Hindus insult Sikhs but did you go to their web sites telling them not to do it?
"They are people who assume they are fulfilling their own religions. People like that exist in every faith."
No. Not in Sikhism. When did Sikhs attack hindu temple and distributed sweets? Sikhs are not allowed to do that. If Sikhs start doing what hindus have done to Sikhs (destroying and raping) then I don't think they will be Sikhs. Sikhs should bring those criminals to justice not kill innocent people.
"Because to assume that a religion must accomplish some goal for the betterment of the state is a crude and daring argument."
religion must provide better life for humanity and teach people equality and those people will setup a country that gives equality to all. Hinduism divided people into caste which lead to slavery of india. slavery is slavery whether you admit it or not whether you accept it or not. Hindu were slaves, sold in markets, hindu women were taken to muslim countries and sold. is that not slavery? hindu temples were destroyed and do you think those hindus did not see that they were slave?
I don't even know what is the point of this discussion. and what are you here to do anyways? you wann
a discuss hinduism then go to hindu web sites. this is not the place. whatever hinduism is i don't care and nor i am interested in knowing your definition of hinduism or sikhism. Don't tell me what to do with my religion. I know my religion inside out. I try to follow Sikhism the way Guru Ji taught us. May He bless me with Sikhi. End of discussion.
0 -
Seems like you have too much time to write but I must say that you have many misconceptions about Khalistan. Guru Ji's message does speak about uniting the humanity together but we must start from somewhere. You say why not preach to everybody about Sikhi but tell me if a Sikh goes to Afghanistan to preach and muslims kill him is there any country that will try to bring the criminals to justice? what would media do? Two villages in India became Sikhs and media portrayed it as biggest danger to hinduism. Police went to those villages and threatened to kill them all if they did not cut their hair. My point is, if you do not political power no one would listen to you. Galieleo was speaking the truth but who listened to him? Guru Arjan Dev Ji stood up for truth but those rulers never ever wanted to listen. If there is a Sikh country then indian media will have to think many times before printing something against SIkhism and bollywood will think many times before making fun of SIkhs in the hindi movie. Do you think RSS does not know the truth about Sikhism? they very well do and this is why they want to destroy it because if SIkhism spreads then it will become more powerful religion which they do not want to see. Governments have always been against SIkhism. British realized that the power of Sikhs was in Gurbani and Gurdwaras so they created many controversies regarding Gurbani and gave the controls of gurdwaras to mahants. People will listen to you if you have power. With Khalistan preaching SIkhi can be done in more effective ways. People will know the reality about SIkhism. Other countries will realize the importance of Kirpan and Turban. If there was a country representing Sikhs 9/11
attacks would not have happened and even if they did our government would have spoken against it.
I think you are not trying to think clearly here. Khalistan will open up universities where Phds in SIkhism will be given. There will be law schools. Why do you think that is impossible for SIkhs to do? your questions like "who decides" "who would do it" are so stupid. Khalistan is country of people, land of freedom and equality. Again, Sikhs will find answers to all the problems when they will setup the government. A country does not become most powerful and richest over night. it takes time. Khalistan is for Sikhism not an outcome of hatred against hindus. It is for survival of SIkh religion. If you see the whole world as land of Khalsa Panth then it must start somewhere. do you actually think Khalsa will take over the whole world over night and there will be Khalistan. Khalistan does not mean putting border around Sikhism. It means security of our faith and language. It means putting stop to attacks on SIkhs and dishonor of our women. Sikhism is 500 years old and only 30 million followers. Wait till we get Khalistan, our population will double in few years.
I am not saying that we should judge everyone and tell women what to do with their children. And why do you think there will be rapes in Khalistan? who would do such thing? Sikhs? I don't think so. We can have very strict laws and policies on this issue and give death sentences but whatever problem arise Sikhs will solve it and government will take responsible actions. Every problem has a solution. and I don't know why you keep saying Gurdwaras will interfere with the government? When the time comes Sikhs will setup a government and make sure the system works in every possible way. Sikhs are lot smarter than you think they are. if you think you are concerned with governmental structure of Khalistan then don't worry, we will take care of it. We (Sikhs) will establish a country with church and state and Sikhs will decide who gets what
kind of power.
First go to this link and read something about Khalistan. http://www.searchsikhism.com/issues/khalistan.htm
Then get a book of Bhai Rama Singh Ji to clearly understand what Khalistan is all about from religious point of view. Go do these two things then come back. Many people here will agree wiith me that reading this book will help you understand Khalsa Raj=Khalistan.
Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh
0 -
Guru Nanak Dev Ji being brought up as a hindu is highly unlikely. Guru Nanak Dev Ji never did a single thing that hindus do. Guru Ji was sent to a pundit to study but Guru Ji wrote Ik Oankar and Gurmukhi Lipi. Then He was sent to Qazi to study Farsi but Guru Ji wrote Shabad "Yuk Araz Guftam Paisto". If Guru Ji was brought up as a hindu then He must've followed hinduism in some way but history does not show it and neither does Gurbani. Guru Ji started writing Gurbani from childhood. He rejected everything that Hindus believe in.
Regarding Hindu and Muslim saints. First of all, they are not hindus and muslims. This has been discussed earlier. their Bani opposes hindu and muslim beliefs. It is very funny that Bhagats like Kabeer, Naamdev and Ravidaas were not even considered humans in hindu society and were not let in the mandirs and now all of the sudden they are hindus.
Last thing about hatred. I did not attack hinduism. First you ask for answers and when someone writes 'em that becomes attack on hinduism. Why do you care about hinduism anyway. Sikhs did not start it. They started it ever since 1947. They killed our brothers and sisters, destroyed Darbar Sahib and distributed sweets to the army. Sikhs are being humiliated in the movies, media, radio and in everyday society, not to mention those sick Sikh jokes. they want to destroy our religion, culture and language. Now tell me who is the one with hatred. Hinduism is not even a religion. There is no definition of a hindu. people worshipping idols are called hindus, people who believe in one god like arya samaj are called hindus. people who believe in caste are called hindus. lower caste people have no rights in hindu
ism but they are also called hindus. people who believe in marriage are called hindus and those who (saneyasi sadhus) think of marriage a curse are also called hindus. there is no single definition. when did hinduism start and who started it? no one knows. where is word "hindu" written in vedas or puranas? no where. Hindus insult Sikhs but you dont seem to care. All you care about is that no one should say nothing about hinduism. and tell me what are your beliefs? Guru Ji called hindu beliefs "blindness" and "foolishness" now why should I respect blindness and foolishness. I don't need to. I respect religions not cults like hinduism. Hinduism never did anything for India. All it did was put chains of slavery around the necks of Indians for centuries. It was Sikhs who broke the chains. We freed the land so it belongs to us. It is ours and we will take it. You and your people can scream all day but nothing will stop us. We want our piece of land and live separate. Our mission is freedom not to kill hindus or muslims.
About your countries. gerogia was established because Russia collapsed. Australia was just a prison for UK and european countries. No one was interested in it. So people who were sent there, mainly criminals and prostitutes, formed a society. Sweden had long wars with denmark and norway. What I meant by my statement was that when any country was ruled by a foreign power, did anybody get killed by foreigners. Did that foreign power one day just get tired of ruling and said "okay we gonna leave now. you guys are free" Nope that never happened. I can say that Afghanistan never had anybody killed for independence but the main reason is that this country was never ruled by a foreign power. So look for countries that got tired of ruling and gave independence to the people. There might be some. Still, I would say without sacrifices people would not understand the true value of freedom.
Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh
0 -
Okay voiceless, you wanna be realistic. First Guru Ji being a Hindu.
taken from www.searchsikhism.com
First of all, we all should know that Guru Nanak Dev Ji never accepted any principal of Hinduism nor Islam. Just because He was born in a Hindu family doesn't mean that he was a Hindu. Your character makes you a person. If you are born in a Hindu family but you have never done anything like a Hindu and you oppose Hinduism then you wouldn't be a Hindu. Hindu is he who follows what Hinduism says such as worshipping stones etc. Guru Nanak Ji never ever worshipped stones. This is just one example. Guru Ji always worshipped one almighty God. Guru Ji rejected the idea of wearing Janju (piece of thread) at young age and later didn't take any rounds around the fire when He married Mata Sulakhni Ji. Guru Ji started a new religion, Sikhism, and preached the message of One God. Bhai Gurdas Ji says:
“Maareya Sikka Jagat Vich, Nanak Nirmal Panth Chalaeya”
Which means Guru Nanak Ji started a new religion. Guru Ji taught Sikhs to believe in one God. Whatever Guru Nanak Ji taught He practiced it first. He did everything first then taught Sikhs to do it in essence practicing what he preached. Guru Ji said, "There is no Hindu, no Muslim" meaning that no one is born Hindu nor a Muslim because what one does makes him Hindu or Muslim. Worshipping stones and believing in more than one God makes you a Hindu; fasting and following what Quran says makes you a Muslim. How can you be a Muslim if you don’t fast, believe in Quran and pray five times a day. How can you be a Hindu if you don’t wear Janju, worship 330 million Gods and believe in castes?
"I am not a Hin
du, nor am I a Muslim." (Page 1136)
End of this discussion.
Your next point. Khalistan will be achieved whichever way possible. Peaceful means or war but we are ready for both. We are not beggers and we do not ask indian government to give us land. We will take it because it rightfully belongs to us. Guru Gobind Singh Ji said "Koi Kisi Ko Raj Na Dehhai, Jo Lehai Nijj bal Se Lehai". Guru Ji clearly says that Raj is always won through power. When Pakistan attacked India had the hindus sat on the border line in their dhotis and started spinning their charkha they would've all gotten killed or slaves of muslims. You are not even a Sikh because a true Sikh will never call Guru Ji a hindu. Prove to me that Gurbani speaks against Khalistan and Khalistan will only bring downfall to Sikhism. Do you have any quotes? We (Sikhs) believe in Bani and follow Gurbani. We will live the way Gurbani teaches us.
In last I wanna say that the way you wrote your post about daring and challenging people.....I smell hankaar. No one was able to provide answers to your arguments because those are not arguments. That's called idiocy. You are making stupid points. Khalistan is needed to save Sikhism and is for Sikhs. So we must look at it from Sikhism point of view. Name a country that won independence with no one getting killed. it is really stupid when someone speaks against killing of couple of hindus and yet not a single word about killing of thousands of Sikhs. You want to argue then speak with Sikhi in your mind.
Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh
0 -
Voiceless,
No personal attack on you but in my personal opinion you are not making any good arguments. You are talking like those yogi's followers 3HO people. I am not sure what your big point is. I mean 1) Khalistan is not needed because it already exits spiritually or 2) Khalistan cannot exist because there will be no stable government.
Sikh means seeker of the truth. A Sikh must find answers. I am a Khalistani and support Khalistan 100% because Guru Gobind Singh Ji says that sovereignty is a MUST for religion to survive. There are many more reasons but I do not want to go into that. The bottom line is that Khalistan is needed for survival of Sikh religion. Just to note that by saying Khalistan exits spiritually doesn't cut it. Gurbani clearly says that Amrit exists in our body then I can say why do we need to take Khanday Di Pahul? Harimander Sahib also exists spiritually within our body so why did Baba Deep Singh Ji and Sant Jarnail Singh Ji have to protect it from getting destroyed? I think you know what I mean. Guru Gobind Singh Ji said that sovereignty is a MUST so we must try to look for answers and figure out why Guru Ji really said it. What good would a country bring to Sikhism? If we look at history, first Sikh Baba Banda Singh Bahadur established Khalsa rule in 1708 when Sikhs were in number of few hundred but within next 8-9 years Sikh population increased to 100,000. Same thing happened in Maharaja Ranjit Singh's raj. Now these Sikhs did not study the separation of church and state but many muslims and hindus wanted to live under their rule. Many people emigrated from different countries like France and America. If these Sikhs with no educa
tion could setup one of the best countries then why can't Sikhs today with so much education setup that kind of country again. Name a profession in which Sikhs have not succeeded? Sikhs are lawyers, doctors, engineers, pilots etc. so we can figure a way out. Also, the government is always setup after the independence. For example, USA constitution was written some 10 years after independence. India wrote it in 1950, three years after independence. So why do Sikhs have to setup a government now? 13 colonies faced many challenges like when writing the constitution but they solved it. Why do you think we can't? Why do you think Sikhs would fight and kill each other? This kind of thinking shows that you think Sikhs are stupid and cannot run a country. If we can make 93% of sacrifices then why can't we run a country?
That being said, now we come to some of the challenges.
1) Majority problem---During Maharaja Ranjit Singh's raj Sikhs were minority. being a minority does not mean you cannot run a country.
2) Not enough population in Punjab----Isreal's population is somewhere around 6 million and yet they are surviving. Sikhs are over 20 million in Punjab.
3) Sea Port---Many landlock countries like Switzerland, Nepal, and Afghanistan are surviving. Also, other countries sea ports can be used for trade because this is how business works. Also having a land lock country does not mean limiting Sikhism. Having a country would help Sikhism spread. I gave two examples above. have two more. In 1947 hindus were 30 million and muslims were 8.8 million in pakistan. Now there are over one billion hindus and 150 million muslims in pakistan. So country helps the religion to not only survive but also spread. A country can provide funding for preachers and we can do parchaar in lot better ways. Christianity spread because those missionaries had the power of Christian countries. USA and UK are funding the missionaries in india and they are opening up the best schools. So having a co
untry would help Sikhism and would not make it limited within the borders.
4) Moving to Khalistan-----why does anyone have to move? hindus have india but hindus live in almost every country. moving to Khalistan is a personal choice not a requirement.
My basic point is that Sikhism needs to survive. If you have will to survive then you will do everything to survive. If you are willing to do everything to survive then you will do your best to have a peaceful country that does not fall apart and make sure everybody's human rights are protected. Sikhism teaches peace and love not killing of someone. A murderer cannot be a Sikh. Killing someone in name of religion is never justifiable and of course i mean innocent human being not someone like hitler. In 500 years of our history can you point out one incident where Sikhs killed innocent people in the name of religion? Muslims have but not Sikhs.
Sikhism gives freedom of religion, speech, press and everything. Show me in Gurbani if it is not so. I think you are not familiar with Sikh politics. Emperor Jahangir was so much impressed by Guru Hargobind Ji's concepts of politics. You saying that miri piri would not make a good country so are you questioning Guru Sahib Ji that He was wrong? When Guru Ji setup this system do you think He did not think about this? Guru Ji is perfect and right. let me tell you little bit about religion and politics.
Religion teaches equality, peace, love for all humankind. Our government will adapt these principles in constitution. No one will be discriminated on base of religion, race, sex etc. Killing human beings in wrong as Sikhism states and not only that Sikhism also says that killing animals is wrong too. So someone who kills another human being will be punished by courts which will be setup by the government. You cannot be a Sikh and kill innocent humans. We have numerous examples how USA, UK and other western countries deal with these problems. Why can't we? Why do we have to be so different?
Gurdwaras will carry out religious activities and courts will be setup for political problems. Religion and politics go together but separate. For a country religion is one side of the vehicle and politics the other side. In Gurdwaras, Granthis will do religious activities and only those who have Phds in Sikhism will be appointed and people with phds in law will be appointed judges.
In my personal opinion, eating meat, drinking alcohol and smoking will be prohibited in Khalistan because no religion teaches in favor of these things. Smoking and drinking is bad for health. In Afghanistan drinking is prohibited and this country has been surviving for centuries. USA legalized smoking because the government makes billions of dollars from this but there are other ways for the government to make money. Meat is wrong because killing animals is wrong. Muslims eat halaal but Islam does not say that those who dont eat meat cannot be muslims. Sufis don't eat meat. eating meat is not a requirement in Islam. So religious freedom of muslims will not be violated. I do not think muslims and hindus have to live there. they have their own countries.
You mentioned how abortion will be dealt with in Khalistan. This is a long debate. But first we must find out what makes a woman want to have abortion? If we can get rid of those problems then it wouldnt happen. If woman has no money then the government can provide money and open health care centers. Every problem has a solution. Sikhs look for solutions and answers not just sit and start questioning and then give up.
Now, who will be the leader of Khalistan?
Panj Pyare will be the leaders of Khalistan. Elections can be held every four or five years and people will choose Panj Pyare. Every city will have Panj Pyare as its leader. Do you think Sikhs do not know anything about elections?
Again, other courts will be setup for other issues. For example, if someone wants to get divorced, he/she will not go to Akaal Takhat Sahib. When someone wants to
open up a business he/she will not go to Akaal takhat Sahib to register the property under his name. Why do you even think Sikhs cannot setup institutions that will deal with other problems? Doing business, trading, currency etc. is not part of religion so these things will be independent of Akaal Takhat Sahib. If Guru Granth Sahib Ji does not talk about business or astronomy that does not mean SIkhs cannot do business or go into space. does it? Guru Ji talks about way of life that leads to Waheguru. business, currency, biology, astronomy and other things have nothing to do with religion. Not everything has to be based on religion. Sikhs are not like Khomeini who burnt all the books by saying that all the knowledge a man needs is in quran. When it comes to way of life towards God, Guru Ji has all the answers. Other issues can be solved in different ways. Again, gotta have will to survive. Sikhs look for solutions.
This can go on and on but my point is that we can look at other countries and see how they formed governments and how they deal with some certain issues. We can do the same. Every question cannot be answered when setting up a government. USA left the issue of slavery. Laws are created as issues arise and government faces with problems. Laws can be changed. gurbani cannot be changed because truth stays the same no matter what. truth 500 years ago is still the truth. if truth needs to be changed over time then it is not the truth. It is easy to ask questions but hard to look for answers and Sikhs are hard working people. Sikhs will look for answers. if you say gurbani will conflict with laws then give me a specific situation and tell me what needs to be changed in Gurbani according to you when it comes to politics?
In my personal opinion you do not sound like a Sikh not because you are against Khalistan but because you do not have clear concept of what Sikhi really is. You asked questions which can be solved very easily and you sound like Sikhs are stupid who will not be able to run a cou
ntry. This is the impression I got but maybe I am wrong.
You can go to http://www.searchsikhism.com/issues/khalistan.htm to read more about Khalistan and I would recommend you to read Bhai Rama Singh Ji's book. It will help you a lot to understand the real Khalistan.
P.S. If your mind is set to not have Khalistan then no need to argue because my mind is set also and I don't think many people here will change their opinions.
Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh
0 -
if you never heard of quote given by Guru Gobind SIngh Ji which every single sikh knows about then definitely you are not a Sikh. word "Kirpan" may not be in Guru Granth Sahib Ji but the point is what matters is the significance of kirpan. other ppl have given enough quotes explaining this concept. whats next? you gonna come out and say three out of five banis are not in Guru Granth Sahib Ji so we shouldn't read 'em? our ardaas is not in Guru Granth Sahib Ji either which does not matter at all. what matters is the significance. our history is not in Gurbani either so does that hold no place in our lives? only ppl i know who question the authority of keeping kirpan are
1) supporters of kaala afghana
2) indian government
3) anti-sikh cults
which one do you fit into because a true sikh would never question kirpan and obviously you don't even know "khalsa mero roop hai khaas" bani of Dasam Nanak. waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh
0 -
i think the real question is:
there are 0-9 numbers and why should a sikh be like number 9?
0 -
I have already stated that each shabad has a different meaning and we must look at in what context and for purpose it was written. One shabad might say "vedas" as "books speaking truth" but another shabad might mean something else. we need to look at the whole shabad esp rahao part. you are taking literal meanings ans this is why i told you to study the shabads if something doesn't make sense. i personally ask gyanis and clear my doubts cuz everyone has doubts. i gave one example regarding vedas but i did not say "vedas" have only one meaning in every shabad. the meanings applied only to that particular shabad. b4 you misunderstand me again, try to study each shabad separately and ask someone who has had santhiya.
I believe in Dasam Bani but you act like a fool when you compare it with Guru Granth Sahib's Bani. I already said that the purpose for writing Dasam Bani was different. when did i oppose dasam bani? Amrit Swayiaas were composed for different purpose and chaupai was composed for another purpose. chandi di vaar, chaubis avtaars and raam katha is for different purpose. chrittars are for different purpose. does not mean guru ji believed in this stuff. i wrote it many times and writing this again b4 you come up with some stupid stuff again go read piara singh padam's book cuz you are missing the whole point and the book is written for ppl like you who took the literal meaning. bhai kahan singh had to write hum hindu nahin cuz hindus and other ppl were taking the literal meanings of gurbani and misunderstanding it completely.
let me tell you about krishan and ram. i never wwanted to write this but you are making me. krishan had 16108 wives and eac
h gave birth to 10 sons and one daughter. full of lust. he was not married to radha. he seduced paarjaat gopi by cheating. when he was a kid he would steal the clothes of women while they were bathing in the river and did bajjar kurehats. now Guru Ji would never do such a thing like that. would he? if you say yes then you are a fool. Read rehatnamas to understand "Apnee istri jo ratt hoyee". krishan being the lustful guy can never be Jot Nanak. Guru JI's rejection of krishan "i do not meditate upon krishna" sums up everything. for other shabads, meanings are different from each other.
regarding raam. he was born not because of his father's union with his mother but because a brahmin gave a bowl of kheer to her mother which she ate and gave birth to ram. also, king dasrath gave all his three wives to brahmins so they could "purify" them. he killed king bali by attacking from behind. his wife seeta, enjoyed the pleasures of ravan's bed. he being the god himself could not free his wife alone, he had to get help from some monkey army. if this monkey hanuman could fly then why didn't he increase his size and took the whole army across the ocean? instead this god had to build a bridge which took him some 12 years compared to ravan who flew across the ocean in one year. so ravan the evil was more powerful than this god ram. anyways, he freed his wife, came back to his kingdom but then by listening to some washerman he kicks out his wife while she was pregnant. what a god? she gets kicked out and gives birth to ram's son in a jungle living with rishi vaalmick. but after few years she gives brith to another boy and quite surprisingly raam was not around. so who was the real father? i can go on but my point is these hindu gods did nothing but bajjar kurehats and what was their inspiring messahe to the humanity? they did idol worship and followed the brahmins. raam had to go with brahmins to get education. why did god need education? he had to beg from house to house for food for his brahmin teach
er.
all this compared to the lives of the Gurus is nothing. Guru Ji did totally opposite things. rejected adultery and idol worship. rejected begging for food and taught sikhs to earn their living by working hard. taught sikhs to never turn his back in the battlefield and never attack from behind. Gurus taught to respect women and "nagan na dekhay naeka". Ram created caste system but Guru Ji denounced it but why would Guru Ji create something and then say "oh i made a mistake, now don't practice it anymore." Guru Ji rejecting his own message? i don't think so. Guru Ji do not make mistakes. writing raam katha and stuff is for very different purpose [admin-cut: please avoid such unfounded accusations on Sikhsangat.com members - 8] if Guru Ji were krishan or raam then why didn't He start SIkhism then and give equality to women? you are very misteken . bhatt bani talks about something else. each shabad has different meaning and different purpose. and i did give you one example of bhagat naamdev ji. did that not make sense or what? i've had it enough. go read "Dasam Granth Darshan" first and go to any taksal or anyone else to find the real meanings. web sites containing english translation do very poor job when it comes to these shabads. i can't give you the meeanings of every single shabad. that is something you should do on your own. you can carry this further but i won't reply cuz i have said everything i wanted to. you can keep questioning. sorry for rude language but you repeated many things over and over. waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh
0 -
in Gurbani "vedas" do not refer to hindu scriptures.
"In the Vedas, the ultimate objective is the Naam, the Name of the Lord; but they do not hear this, and they wander around like demons." (919)
the word "vedas" mean books that speak of truth and nothing else. but hindu vedas talk about hindu rituals like how to worship idols and how to sacrifice animals. also, these four vedas conflict with each other. so "vedas" means books of truth.
"I do not accept Ganesha as important. I do not meditate on Krishna, neither on Vishnu. I do not hear them and do not recognize them. My love is with the Lotus feet of God. He is my protector, the Supreme Lord. I am dust of his Lotus feet." (Guru Gobind Singh Ji )
So in my opinion, Guru Ji cannot reject krishna and then praise him, you know? I mean if Guru Nanak Dev Ji was krishna then why would Guru Ji reject himself now? there must be some other meaning at deeper level. Guru does not take birth. name Nanak is name of JOT not body. Guru Ji cannot be krishna because krishna took birth but Guru Ji is not in this cycle "Janam Maran Dohoon Mein Nahin". but thanks for your quotes and I will look into that and I will try to post if I find something different. post some more if you can including Bhai Sahib's work. it will help me learn the truth. Just to note, yesterday I was listening to katha and it was mentioned that Gurbani does not conflict with each other. We have to look at each shabad separately and see in what way and context was the shabad written and for what purpose. couple examples were given. I will give you one. This shabad is from Bhagat Naamdev Ji. He says:
"My Sovereign Lord King is Raam Chandra, the So
n of the King Dasrat'h; prays Naam Dayv, I drink in the Ambrosial Nectar. ||4||4||" (973)
Now this shabad cleary means that Naamdev Ji regarded Raam Chand as his God. Now look at the next shabad.
"O Pandit, I saw your Raam Chand coming too; he lost his wife, fighting a war against Raawan. ||3||" (874)
This shabad rejects Raam Chand and Bhagat Ji talks about him like Ram Chand was just an ordinary man.
The reason for these two different shabads is because first Bhagat Ji used to worship God in Sargun form. After doing Bhagtee Bhagat Ji realized the truth that God's true form is Nirgun so he rejected all sargun forms because body perishes. One after another you will have to look for a new one. So Bhagat Ji says he only worships the Nirgun waheguru who never born and never dies.
Now read something from Puranas.
"In Hinduism the NARASINGA PURANA, Page 169 : Abithana Sinthamani, the Vedas and `holy' Puranas claim that the Earth is flat. Today it has been proven beyond a doubt by the scientists that the Earth is round. Yet the bigoted Brahmins refuse to believe this and have hence set up a `Jambudvipa Institute' in Gujarat which tries to `prove' the Vedic flat Earth theory ! The VISHNU PURANA says that sun is 800,000 miles and moon is 2,200,000 miles away from the Earth. Astronomy has now proved that the moon is nearer to the Earth, i.e. 240,000 miles and that the sun is 93,000,000 miles away from the Earth. MARKANDEYA PURANA says that the Earth has an area of 4,000,000,000 square miles. According to astronomy, it is only 190,700,000 square miles."
taken from www.searchsikhism.com
So again, I will study Bhatt Sawaiyaas. I have katha but it does not go upto Bhatt Saal. thanks again. Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki fateh
0 -
hajara veer, I wrote in the frist line that this article is taken from a web site so perhaps you missed that. Second Punjabi cultures is not Sikhism. Sikhi itself is a culture. Third, Puranas were written long time ago and majority of the hindus can't even understand the language but definitely not written by any god. some humans wrote 'em. Guru Ji rejected the authority of hindu scriptures. fourth, you are keep mentioning Guru Nanak Dev Ji being krishan in some other yug please post a quote so i can learn about it. As far as I know, Guru Nanak Jot existed in other yugas and will exist even after this whole creation is destroyed. the article is against RSS not hindus. RSS is doing anti-sikhism parchaar and the article is against it. also don't forget this same RSS killed gandhi in 48. so RSS does not represent hinduism.
0 -
Siri Mukh Bhaeo Gareeb Niwaj, Shahtran Kay Adheen Hai Raaj
Raaj Bina Nahin Dharam Chalay Hain, Dharam Bina Sab Dalay Malay Hain.
(Siri Guru Gobind Singh Ji)
0 -
taken from http://searchsikhism.com/issues/rss.htm
Sikhi and RSS
RSS stands for Rashtriya SwayamSevak Sangh. It is an anti-Sikh group started by Hindus. It has the support of both Congress and Bhajpa parties and its main goal is to absorb Sikhism into Hinduism. The Indian government is spending millions of rupees to destroy Sikhism and is publishing false literature about Sikhism. One of the main claims published in many wrong books on Sikhism is that Sikhism is a sect of Hinduism. They try to relate every Sikh principle to Hinduism and say that the Sikhs are Hindus. I already have created and published a page on this site, which proves that Sikhism is completely different religion than Hinduism (Read Sikhism vs. Hinduism). On this page I'll try my best to give you the knowledge of RSS and clear the doubts RSS is putting into people's minds about Sikhism.
Most of you have probably heard about the Hindus' activities in Punjab. Accordingly, the RSS is the root for all the problems Punjab is facing right now and it has the support of two major parties, Congress and Bhajpa. Akali Dal can't do anything because Parkash (Hanerra or Dark) Badal is a servant to the Hindus. The only way to get Punjab out of the trap of Hindus and this terrible situation is to follow the teaching of Guru Granth Sahib and the principles of Sikhism that the Gurus set forth.
First lets look at the problems RSS has created for our Punjab: The first action of RSS is to destroy the power of Punjab and weaken it. To do this they are trying to drown the whole Punjab
into drugs and alcohol. Mostly, they are targeting college students especially Sikhs. Most of the college students are drug addicts and alcoholics including many girls. So you can realize that there will not be any sign of education in future generations if young people become drug addicts. There are more bars in Punjab than public school and many more are opening everyday.
The RSS is moving Hindus to Punjab from other parts of the country, so that the Hindu population can increase. The theory is if there are more Hindus than Sikhs in Punjab then in elections more people will claim Hindi as their first language instead of Punjabi, which means there will be more votes in the favor of Hindi . Hindi will be the first language of Punjab. There will be no Punjabi anymore and Punjab would become a Hindi State. No Punjabi means no Gurmukhi Script which means less people will learn Gurbani which means there will less Sikhs. Punjabi is the Sikhs' native tongue and Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is written in Gurmukhi Lipi. Then no one would know how to read, write and speak Punjabi. They think that if Sikhs turn away from their religion then there will not be Sikhism alive and they only way to do that is change the character of Sikhs. If Sikhs start smoking, drinking and committing adultery then they will loose the power of Gurbani and they will turn away from the true principles of Sikhism. This is why RSS is distributing drugs in large amounts, opening bars and showing dirty films and songs on television.
Hindus will occupy Punjab slowly. Already their population has increased by 12% in last ten years or so. They have all rights in Punjab. We must do something to stop those Hindus coming into Punjab and buying the land. Sikhs can't buy land in other states of India, can't vote and nor can they own a business whereas Hindus coming in Punjab have right to vote and can buy the land for farming. This way there will be more Hindu farmers in Punjab than Sikhs and the crops will only be given
to Hindus not Sikhs. Sikhs will starve to death. So Sikhs should stop the Hindus. But if Sikhs just kick them out then they will turn against Sikhs and government will do the same thing that happened in 1984. If they stay in Punjab then they will support the Congress which they already do and Congress is responsible for killing more than 300,000 Sikhs in the past 17 years and putting 60,000 Sikhs in jails without any charge or trail.
The water that belongs to Punjab is being given to other states for free so that Sikhs won't get enough water for their own land and there won't be any crops. One drastic set back of this is lowered crops yields which leads to Sikhs not being able to pay their loans back and always being under debt since their land cannot be cultivated without water. Sikh farmers hire Hindus to work in their farms because their children don’t work for them. Hindus say it is because young Sikhs don’t want to work but they are lying. The truth is that the Sikhs know that even if they work hard in the farms, they won’t get enough money for their crops. Sikhs are not paid the full price for their crops and commit suicide because they can’t pay their loans back. This is first time in history that Sikhs are committing suicide and it is all because of RSS and Indian government.
The whole point to weakening Punjab is that if by any chance Sikhs free their Punjab, there won't be anything left and Sikhs will end up with a poor country. The Indian government has already divided Punjab into four parts Haryana, Himachal Pardesh, Punjab and the fourth part is given to Rajisthan so that Sikhs are left with a very small area to live in, which is stuck on the border of Pakistan. Thus the RSS is trying really hard to destroy Sikhism.
All the psuedo saints and false living Gurus like Radha Swami, Nirankaris, Noormahals, Saccha Sodda are agents of RSS. The RSS has setup this network to mislead Sikhs and they are given billion of rupees every year to continue their mission. Now
the RSS has started sending these false people to outside countries too, so be aware of them. RSS has also taken education under their control and they are publishing schoolbooks, which include false information about Sikhism. If students in schools don't learn about Sikhism then there won't be any Sikh. So the RSS is teaching young children that Sikhism is a sect of Hinduism. Competitions are being held on Sikhism but the books provided for students include all the false information about Sikhism. The RSS is publishing the Sikh history books, which state that Sikh Gurus lived their lives as Hindus and they have done everything with the help of Hindus. People don't have the understanding about Sikhism and they have a lot of doubts in their minds because of RSS. The RSS is at its most basic taking advantage of people's ignorance.
So I'll try to clear those doubts. RSS is attacking Sikhism with many questions but I'll try to answer most of them. I do not say that my answers are completely correct and that I know everything about Sikhism, but I do learn everyday and I do have some knowledge. SO if you see any mistakes please let me know. Answering all of the questions will take a lot of time but the best way to stop RSS is that every one of you learn about Sikhism and understand it. This is a way the RSS can't do anything. Here are some of the RSS questions:
1) RSS says that Guru Nanak Dev Ji was a Hindu because he was born in a Hindu family?
First of all, we all should know that Guru Nanak Dev Ji never accepted any principal of Hinduism nor Islam. Just because He was born in a Hindu family doesn't mean that he was a Hindu. Your character makes you a person. If you are born in a Hindu family but you have never done anything like a Hindu and you oppose Hinduism then you wouldn't be a Hindu. Hindu is he who follows what Hinduism says such as worshipping stones etc. Guru Nanak Ji never ever worshipped stones. This is just one example. Guru Ji always worshi
pped one almighty God. Guru Ji rejected the idea of wearing Janju (piece of thread) at young age and later didn't take any rounds around the fire when He married Mata Sulakhni Ji. Guru Ji started a new religion, Sikhism, and preached the message of One God. Bhai Gurdas Ji says:
“Maareya Sikka Jagat Vich, Nanak Nirmal Panth Chalaeya”
Which means Guru Nanak Ji started a new religion. Guru Ji taught Sikhs to believe in one God. Whatever Guru Nanak Ji taught He practiced it first. He did everything first then taught Sikhs to do it in essence practicing what he preached. Guru Ji said, "There is no Hindu, no Muslim" meaning that no one is born Hindu nor a Muslim because what one does makes him Hindu or Muslim. Worshipping stones and believing in more than one God makes you a Hindu; fasting and following what Quran says makes you a Muslim. How can you be a Muslim if you don’t fast, believe in Quran and pray five times a day. How can you be a Hindu if you don’t wear Janju, worship 330 million Gods and believe in castes? Guru Ji taught equality and gave equal rights to women. So this is one of the idiotic questions of RSS. They are foolish. This is what Gurbani says about Hinduism.
"The Hindu is sightless; the Muslim has only one eye. The spiritual teacher is wiser than both of them." (Page 875)
"I do not make pilgrimages to Mecca, nor do I worship at Hindu sacred shrines. I serve the One Lord, and not any other." (Page 1136)
"I do not perform Hindu worship services, nor do I offer the Muslim prayers. I do not perform Hindu worship services, nor do I offer the Muslim prayers." (Page 1136)
"I am not a Hindu, nor am I a Muslim." (Page 1136)
"I have abandoned both the Pandits, the Hindu religious scholars, and the Mullahs, the Muslim priests." (Page 1159)
2) The RSS is saying that Guru Gobind Singh Ji worshipped Kali Devi on Hemkunt Parbat where Guru Ji meditated for a long time?
The truth is that Guru Ji never ever worshipped any idols of Hinduis
m. Guru Ji always worshipped one God and taught Sikhs to do the same. RSS is not using Guru Gobind Singh Ji’s lines accurately. RSS is saying this:
“Mahan Kaal Kalka Aaradhi”
Kalka is name of Hindu Goddess Kali Devi but Guru Ji never said anything like this. Guru Ji’s original lines are these:
“Mahan Kaal, Kaal Ka Aaradhi”
Which means that Guru Ji worshipped the greatest of great power, which is death of death meaning God. God is the death of death. Mahan Kaal means “Death” and Kaal Ka means “Of Death” and Aaradhi means “Worshipped”. So Guru Ji worshipped the death of death, which is the almighty power of one God. If we read the next lines we find that Guru Ji truly worshipped One God. The next lines say this:
“Eh Bidh Karat Tapaseya Bhaeyo, Dve Te Eek Roop Hve Gaeyo”
Guru Ji is saying that “By meditating upon God’s name I became one with God like a glass of water in a big ocean. I am encompassed in his glory” Guru Gobind Singh Ji also said:
"I do not accept Ganesha as important. I do not meditate on Krishna, neither on Vishnu. I do not hear them and do not recognize them. My love is with the Lotus feet of God. He is my protector, the Supreme Lord. I am dust of his Lotus feet." (Guru Gobind Singh,)
This clearly proves that Guru Ji worshipped One God and the only way to worship God is to meditate upon His true name. RSS is changing these lines and trying to convince Sikhs that they are part of Hinduism. All of their Gods are represented as idols and images. This is what Gurbani says about Hindus worshipping stones:
"The blind ignorant ones stray in doubt and so deluded, deluded they pluck flowers for worship. They worship the lifeless stones and adore tombs. Their service all goes in vain." (Page 1264)
"They who say the stone is a god; in vain is their service. He who falls at the feet of the stone; vain goes his labor. My Lord ever speaks. The Lord gives gifts to all the living beings. The Lord is within, but the blind one knows
not. Deluded by doubt, he is caught in a noose. The stone speaks not, nor gives anything. In vain are the ceremonies of the idolater, and fruitless his service." (Page 1160)
“Why worship gods and goddesses, O Siblings of Destiny? What can we ask of them? What can they give us? The stone gods are washed with water, O Siblings of Destiny, but they just sink in the water.” (Page 637)
“You worship gods and goddesses, but you do not know the Supreme Lord God. Says Kabeer, you have not remembered the Lord who has no ancestors; you are clinging to your corrupt ways.” (Page 332)
3) RSS says that Guru Gobind Singh Ji is incarnation of Krishna?
From the last question you have learned that Guru Ji only worshipped one God and He never ever mentioned being Krishna or anything even close to that in His biography. Guru Ji never believed in Krishna. Guru Ji says:
"I do not accept Ganesha as important. I do not meditate on Krishna, neither on Vishnu. I do not hear them and do not recognize them. My love is with the Lotus feet of God. He is my protector, the Supreme Lord. I am dust of his Lotus feet." (Guru Gobind Singh,)
This means Guru Ji was not incarnation of Krishna. Now lets look at what Krishna did during his lifetime. Was he really a God?
In Bhagvat Purana chapter 10, section 22 says that once Krishna saw women taking bath in the river. So he went there and stole their clothes and made them come outside naked to get their clothes. When they did he forced them to mate with him. What kind of God would do that? Is this the kind of love God gives to his children? In the same chapter section 60 says that Krishna had 16,108 wives and Radha was not one of them. Each wife gave birth to 10 sons and one daughter means that Krishna had 161,080 sons and 16,108 daughters. So all together he had 177188 children. This shows how lustful Krishna was and RSS is trying to compare him with the greatest of all, Guru Gobind Singh Ji?
God is not lustful at all. Guru Ji has taught us t
o overcome the five thieves including Lust, Anger, Greed, Emotional Attachment and Pride (Egotism). If Guru Ji were incarnation of Krishna, Guru Ji would have never taught us this concept. If we learn the message of the Gurus then we can understand that the Guru Ji were never incarnation of anyone. Guru Ji was one with God and showed us the same path He followed. Dhan Guru Nanak Ji. Gurbani says:
"In the Jujar Veda, Kaan Krishna of the Yaadva tribe seduced Chandraavali by force." (Page 470)
"Even Krishna and Balbhadar meditated on the Lord, falling at the Guru's Feet." (Page 165)
4) RSS says that Guru Gobind Singh Ji is praying Hindu God Shiva in Sikh Religious/National Anthem?
This is totally false. Gurbani is full of quotes that teach us to worship and pray only to ONE God. Guru Ji said He never recognized any Ganesha and Krishna. If Guru Ji doesn't recognize Ganesha, then He doesn't recognize Shiva either simply because they don't exist. In the Hindu religion Ganesha is worshipped before Shiva and has higher authority than Shiva. Guru Ji is praying to one God. Sikhism accepts all names of God. Shiva is one of those names just as "Allah" or "God" but God is referred to mainly as "Waheguru" in Sikhism. Sikhism never accepted any power other than one almighty God and this refers to that God not the Hindu deity. Guru Ji never referred it to the Hindu Shiva because how could Guru Ji pray to someone who killed an innocent boy of a farmer? Shiva couldn't even recognize his own son and killed him out of anger. Guru Ji taught us to overcome five thieves and anger is one of them. Therefore, God is referred to as Shiva but this doesn't mean Shiva (the God of Hindus). God has many names and this is the proof but God doesn't have any shape. So God is not Hindu God Shiva. Guru Ji is praying to God "Waheguru". In regard to the Hindu God "Shiva" Guru Ji says:
"The realm of Shiva, the realms of Brahma and Indra as well - no place anywhere is permanent." (Page 214)
"The Realm of Shiva shall also perish." (Page 237)
"Even Shiva and Brahma are afraid of this pleasure, but I have judged that pleasure to be true. Even sages like Sanak and Naarad, and the thousand-headed serpent, did not see the mind within the body." (Page 330)
"My breath of life resides in Him, whose praises are sung by Shiva and Sanak and so many others." (Page 339)
"No one is more powerful than the she-serpent Maya, who deceived even Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva." (Page 480)
"That man who chants "Shiva, Shiva", and meditates on him, is riding on a bull, shaking a tambourine." (Page 874)
5) RSS says that Guru Gobind Singh Ji worshipped a Hindu Goddess (Devi)?
Again, one of the stupid questions. I have stated so many times that there is only one God in Sikhism who has no shape. There is no other power than that of God. Then what's the point of this Goddess again. Hinduism is a caste religion. Women have no rights in Hinduism. During the time of Guru Nanak, women were considered more inferior than the lowest person. Then how did they start worshipping this Goddess? What is the history behind it? No one knows who founded Hinduism not even Hindus. I ask them who founded Hinduism and how did female shapes as goddess enter Hinduism? Hindus worship stones in the shape of gods and goddess. Gurbani says:
"One who worships the Great Goddess Maya will be reincarnated as a woman, and not a man." (Page 874)
"Why worship gods and goddesses, O Siblings of Destiny? What can we ask of them? What can they give us? The stone gods are washed with water, O Siblings of Destiny, but they just sink in the water." (Page 637)
If those stones sink in the water then how can they take you across the ocean life of and they do get dirty. If they are dirty then how can they clean your mind? The reason RSS says stupid things like these is because there is a story behind it but RSS changed it to suit their own needs. The story is something like this. Two Brahmins c
ame to Guru Gobind Singh Ji and claimed that Devi (goddess) can be revealed or manifested by performing Hindu rituals and once she appears she will give great power to his follower. Guru Ji knew this was all false and blindly followed by Hindus. But Guru Ji wanted His Sikhs to see the reality. So He gave permission to Brahmins to start the rituals and money was spent by millions and given to Brahmins. After couple of years passed, nothing happened and Guru Ji asked Brahmins the reason for this. They said that goddess was not happy and she wanted a sacrifice of a noble man. Brahmins were actually pointing at Baba Ajit Singh Ji. But Guru Ji said, "Who is more noble than you, Brahmin." Hearing this Brahmins said, "Then who will perform the ritual." Guru Ji said, "One of you sacrifice and other one continue the ritual." Brahmins were shocked to hear this and before next morning they both ran away. Guru Ji taught His Sikhs to believe in one God always and never follow ritualism. Then Guru Ji put rest of the stuff in the fire and there high flames. Guru Ji then took His sword and said, "My this sword as goddess will kill the cruels and fight the oppression. My sword is my power." And the RSS is saying goddess really appeared. If goddess can really appear then why don't they reveal her and tell her to fix the economy of India and make it the richest country? Why couldn't they save their women from Muslims? Why couldn't they fight Muslims and British? Why did they have to beg Sikhs to save their religion? They have no answers.
6) RSS says that Guru Gobind Singh Ji created Khalsa by the help of Brahmin Kali Charan Das?
RSS has its own fairy tales. RSS says that there was very dark time during Moughal sovereignty. Muslims were killing Hindus and forcibly converting them to Islam. Pandit Kali Das advised Guru Gobind Singh Ji that the only way to stop this oppression was to create an army that would fight Muslims. Then he told Guru Gobind Singh Ji to create an army step by step which is Khalsa. But
my question is if Hindus already knew that an army should be created then why didn't they create it themselves? Why couldn't they save themselves? Creator is always greater than his creation. Then why couldn't just Kali Das save his community? Why did he want Guru Gobind Singh Ji to do it? The answer is, there was no Kali Charan Das who advised Guru Ji. Guru Gobind Singh Ji have said:
"Khalsa Akaal Purakh Ki Fauj, Paragteo Khalsa Parmatam Ki Mauj" (Guru Gobind Singh Ji)
This clearly means that Khalsa appeared by the will of God. God wanted an army of his own full of good characters that could fight oppression and cruel rulers of that time, an army that could fight for truth and Khalsa did fight for truth and right cause. Khalsa has always fought for truth and will.
7) RSS says that Guru Gobind Singh Ji was born to protect Hindu religion and therefore Khalsa was created and now since Hindu religion is safe, Sikhs should return back to their old religion Hinduism?
Another lie of RSS again. Guru Ji states the purpose of His birth in His own words:
"For this purpose was I born,
Understand all you pious people,
To uphold righteousness, to protect the worthy and
To overcome and destroy evildoers." (Guru Gobind Singh, Bachittar Natak)
Guru Ji came to this world to preach the true message. Khalsa was not created to protect Hinduism. Khalsa was created to fight for truth and protect all who are victim to injustice. During that time Muslims rulers were cruel and Khalsa fought them to save helpless Hindus. Then Khalsa fought British and freed the country. In 1984 Khalsa fought Indian army and the war is still on. It is not over yet. Khalsa shall win and India will fall apart.
Why should Sikhs become Hindus since we are not from Hindus? I am the second generation in Sikhism and I know I am not from Hindus. It is Sikhs who saved Hinduism then why don't Hindus become Sikhs? Hindus couldn't s
ave themselves and what is the guarantee they will in future? Shouldn't they join the religion that saved them? If Hindus can save themselves then why don't they fight Pakistan? How come 98% of people in the Indian army are Sikhs and these Sikhs always fight Pakistan whether war is in Punjab, Bangladesh, Nepal or Kashmir? The truth is Hindus can't fight. They are scared and have no guts to fight. Muslims used to capture Hindu women and take them back to Afghanistan to sell them. It was Sikhs who fought and saved them. Where were Hindus then? Why couldn't they save their women? They say Khalsa was created to save Hinduism but Hinduism was in real danger during the time of ninth Guru, Guru Tegh Bahadur Ji. Why did Kashmiri Pandits come to Guru Tegh Bahadur Ji for help? Had Guru Ji not helped them, Hinduism would not have survived. Guru Ji sacrificed in 1675 to save Hinduism. This proves that even before Khalsa Hinduism was in danger and only Sikhs saved them.
In 1947 India became a free country but Hindus enjoyed freedom after 1200 years. They had always been under rule of some other powers. Hindus became free because of Sikhs. 93% of the people who sacrificed to free India were Sikhs and the remaining 7% were Hindus, Muslims, Dalits and others. When did Hindus save themselves? If they can save themselves then they should free their Mandirs from Muslims' control in India. Many cows are slaughtered in U.P. everyday by Muslims. Many statues are still in the floor of Muslim Mosques. Why don't Hindus get them out? Those statues been there from the time of Aurangzeb. About 90% of Muslims in India were Hindus who were forcibly converted by Aurangzeb and almost all Muslims in Kashmir are from Hindu background. Why don't Hindus go tell them to convert? Hindus have killed many Christians in south India and raped nuns. This is how Hindus show their bravery by raping women? All I want to say is that IF they want to save India then they should save Punjab otherwise India shall fall apar
t.
8) RSS says in Guru Granth Sahib God's name "Waheguru is mentioned only 17 times whereas God's name "Raam" is mentioned some couple hundred times which means "Raam" is given more significance by the Gurus and Gurus accepted Rama as a God?
This is 100% false comment. There is mention of God's name Raam in Guru Granth Sahib as well as Brahm, Waheguru, Sahib and others but they directly imply to God not any person. God's name "Raam" in Gurbani is not as same as Hindu Lord "Rama". First lets look at Hindu lord Rama and his life. Gurus never accepted him as a God because he was a human being. Before he was born there existed God's name "Raam". There was a saint named Valmick who used to be a thief and one day he met a group of saints and he requested them to lead him on the right path so those saints told him to repeat God's name and that name was "Raam". According to Hinduism it was Valmick who wrote "Ramayana" 10,000 years before Rama was born. This means there was God's name as Raam even before Hindu lord Rama was born. God's name was Raam and when Rama was born his father named him after God's name. In Sikhism God's name revealed by Gurus is "Waheguru". So if you name your son "Waheguru Singh" this doesn't make him God at all. He stays a human being. So this is what happened.
Furthermore, according to Hindus when Rama was exiled, he shot a king named Bali from behind and killed him. What a coward? What kind of bravery is that? Why would God attack someone from behind? Well, God wouldn't, which means Rama wasn't God. This was a complete betrayal by Rama in the battle field. No wonder where Hindus got it from. Then Rama starts fighting with Ravana to get his wife back but when his brother Lacchman passed out, he started crying and told Hanuman that if his brother dies he will die with him by committing suicide. The truth is NO brave man ever cries in the battle field. This shows that Rama lost himself in the battle field which shows we
akness of mind and heart. So, after he got his wife back he returned to his kingdom and started ruling. One day he listened to a washer man talking to his wife about Rama. The washer man was saying that Rama's wife was kidnapped and stayed with kidnapper for a year and therefore she became impure. On hearing this Rama quickly went back to his palace and kicked out his wife out of his kingdom while she was pregnant with his baby. Now let me ask you, Is this what God does?? The answer is NO. This clearly proves that he was not a God rather just a simple human being who wasn't smart enough. He fought for his wife for a year and then suddenly listening to some washer man he kicked her out when she was pregnant. He didn't even trust his wife. Gurbani says:
Raam Chand passed away, as did Raawan, even though he had lots of relatives. Says Nanak, nothing lasts forever; the world is like a dream. (Page 1429)
This shows that Gurus considered Rama and Rawana as regular humans. Gurus saw them both as one. So this means Hindu lord Rama is not God. God's name "Raam" in Guru Granth Sahib does not refer to Hinduism because this name existed thousands years before Hindu lord Rama was born. God's name is Waheguru in Sikhism as it is "God" in English.
At last, we all as Sikhs should not believe in what Hindu propaganda says. We should follow Guru Granth Sahib's teaching and believe in one God. I have tried to answer most of the questions and will keep updating them but if I find more questions I will try to answer them as soon as possible.
Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh.
0 -
no no no. Guru Ji says one who has forgotton God is an animal. in other words those who turned their backs on Guru Ji. I myself don't do simran everyday but manage to do nitnem as much as i can. if any of my family members ever worshipped stones then sure they were blind and not any better than animals. humans have the knowledge to see the truth and realize God. Those who walk on the path are not animals whether it be amritdharis or monay. the reason idol worshippers are called blind is because they do not see the truth and don't do any naam simran.
I know Dasam Bani talks about 24 avtaars and chandi di vaar but the stories are narrated and if you ask why then I say the purpose for writing these stories was to inspire people to fight the moughal opression. all these stories are written in a unique way. chandi di vaar is full "josh" and talks about vaars, bloodshed and brave warriors. this was only so that people can read it and get the courage to fight for freedom. and the part about liberating yourself by reading paath of durga, that is not praising durga. that is praising Kirpan because Kirpan is durga and by reading paath one will be liberated mean get freedom. the deeper meaning is something else. Again, Piara SIngh Padam goes into lot more details.
Ram, Krishan all existed but they are not given any higher status. How do you expect Guru Ji to say that by worshipping krishna or raam you will be liberated. I mean this is the guy (krishna) who had 16,108 wives and some hundred thousand sons and daughters and raam cried in the battlefield. Guru Ji being the true warrior would never praise someone who cries and gives up in the battlefield. Go to www.dalistan.org
and you will find all the sources. My point simple being, Guru Ji never praised any hindu god. The message is different and the purpose is different. Many people failed to realize this and obviously the authority of Dasam Granth is being questioned. Guru Granth Sahib Ji gives you "hosh" and Dasam Bani gives you "Josh". For freedom you need both.
Going to taksal I did not mean Damdami Taksal. You can go to any taksal and study or any other religious school. its up to you but I myself will study in Damdami Taksal. Gurbani has infinite meanings. Taksal can give 10 or 20 different meanings but that's not all. Sant Gurbachan SIngh Ji used to say Gurbani is like a sky in which we birds (humans) can fly and enjoy but will never find its limits. Also, Bhai Veer Singh Ji got sick when he started writing the meanings because he could not decide which meaning to write. Everytime he meditated he found higher and higher meanings. (See Se Kineheya). The meanings represent your spiritual level. I guess that's all.
Last words, "Sukh Nahi Ray Har Bhagat Bina".Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh
0 -
hajara singh, i did not mean to attack your family. I just wrote what Gurbani says. Also, a person who does not do naam simran at all is an animal too because Guru Ji says if you work hard to take care of your family and children then animals do it too so how does that make you different from animals? Guru Ji says only doing Naam Simran makes you a human being because in Punjabi a human is called "Banda" and Banda is someone who does bandgee "Kar Banday toon Bandgee". Regarding the shabads you provided well, I did not have the time to read them all but I have read most of the shabads regarding hindusim and islam. Gurbani does not conflict with each other like calling hindus "blind" in one shabad and priase their vedas in another. In Gurbani the word "vedas" do not mean hindu scriptures. for example in Anand Sahib it says "Vedan Mein Naam Uttam So Suneh Nahin.." the word "vedan" does not refer to hindu vedas. "Ram" is not hindu god Raam Chand. Guru Ji says "Ram gaeyoo rawan gaeyoo" so Ram=Rawan in Gurbani. Ram Chand is not given any higher status in Gurbani. Ram is a name of God. Rishi Vaalmick who wrote Ramayan 10,000 years (i think) before it took place and he received the name "Ram" from a group of holy saints whom he was trying to rob. So the name "Ram" existed way before Raam Chand took birth. same applies to krishan but Guru Ji calls God "Krishan" and calls himself Gopi. Just a metaphore. regarding chandi, durga and bhawanee these are not hindus goddess but Guru Ji gave these words to "Kirpan". "Tuhee Nishanee Jeet Kee". Dasam bani does not praise any hindu gods or goddess. As I stated Guru Ji narrated these stories but when it came to whether Guru Ji believed in those or not Guru Ji
rejected their existance in His Gurbani and rejected believing in vedas and stuff. Guru Ji cannot praise hindu goddess at one place and praise them at another place. Gurbani does not conflict with each other. I again recommend reading book by Piara Singh Padam to really understand the Damsan Bani. I do not need to ask for your purpose because by reading your posts one can easily understand why you used Gurbani and in what ways. I already gave enough quotes from Gurbani proving my point and I stand on those. But I did not mean to attack you or your family members in any way. I wrote what Gurbani says. I would say you go to some religious school like Taksaal and study Gurbani in deapth. The translation we have in english is too literal. Hopefully I would go to taksal one day and study Gurbani myself. We all need to. i don't think dragging this further would do any good. As rochak said close this chapter. Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh
0 -
I think this was published by Kartar Singh Klaaswalia. Here is a write-up based on the ' Sri Guru Dashmesh Prakash' of Giani Kartar Singh Kalaswalia on the subject of the origin of 'Khalsa'.The very basis of Sikhi is freedom (so many facets to this one)from Guru Nanak Dev Sahib jee through Guru Gobind Sahib jee and is deeply intertwined into the Sikh psyche.The Akal Purakh via Guru Gobind Singh among his countless gifts, sealed it for all time in the creation of the Khalsa and the permanent Guruship of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Maharaj.
"According to Giani Kartar Singh Kaliswalia in Sri Guru Dashmesh Prakash page 106, Gurujee sent from Paonta five Sikhs to Kashi to study Sanskrit. He built five forts in Anandpur. He selected five beloved ones at Anadpur. He read five banees while preparing Amrit. He administered to each of them five palmfuls of amrit or holy water.
With a view of giving the Singhs an potimistic view of life in the midst of the tirals and tribulations which lay ahead of them, the Guru gave them a unique form of salutation:
Wahe Guru ji ka Khalsa, Wahe Guru ji ki Fatah
The Khalsa is Thine, O lord! So does the Victory belong to You!
Each half of this salutation again consists of five words. By this mode of salutation a strong link was established between the Khalsa and Victory, these two being the offspring of the Lord.
Guru Gobind Singh was in search of a word which could have the sanctity of five and the presence of God. Persian was the language of the elite and the Guru himself was a great scholar of Persian language and literature. He adopted the word Khalsa for his Singhs because it fulfilled bothe the conditions in the most approp
riate manner. Besides this word had already been used by Guru Hargobind for his Sikhs. In Persian script Khalsa consists of five letters:
1) Khe or Kh stands for Khud or oneself
2) Alif or A stands for Akal Purakh of God
3) Lam or L signifies Labhaik. The News Royal Persian-English Dictionary by S. C. Paul, 1925 edition, Allahbad, p. 357, gives its meaning as follows;"What do you want with me? Here I am. What would you have?"
4)Swad or S alludes to Sahib or Lord or master.
5) It ends with A or H. Alif or A points to Azadi or freedom. If written with a he or H as it is generally the case, it refers to huma, a legendary bird. Every head it overshadows, in time wears a crown.
The word Khalsa, therefore, has the sacredness of the number five as well as the presence of God with his Singhs both engaged in a pleasant conversation. God himself asks the Singhs:
"What do you want from me? Here I am. What would you have?" The Singhs reply: "Lord give us liberty and sovereingty." "
Akal Purakh is open-ended, no beginning or no end. There is no way to fathom the depths of the implications of His ways.
0 -
hajara, you are pretty mad and I agree that gargajsingh should apologize for whatever he said to rochak. I want to say that you are using Dasam bani for wrong purpose. Charittars are Bani of Dasam Nanak but you must see why Guru Ji did Rachna of this type of Bani and what do we need to learn from this. If you want to know if it really is Bani then I recommend you read the book "Dasam Granth Darshan" by Piara Singh Padam. This book will clear all your doubts. Even though Chrittars are something you cannot easily read or listen to with females present but this case is very different than shivling because this kind of stuff is not going on in Gurdwaras and Sikhs are not using this Bani for wrong purposes. Are they? Women in Hinduism not only worship shivling but do bad stuff. They do not understand the truth and do not realize what real worship is and how to worship the true Waheguru. This is an act of blindness. Guru Ji did Racha of this Bani but does not mean Guru Ji believed in this type of stuff or supported it but Hindus carry on this stuff and believe in it. This is the major difference.
Guru Granth Sahib Ji talks about "bhog" but the purpose is different. We learn a lesson from Bani. For example,
"You may enjoy the pleasures of hundreds of thousands of women, and rule the nine continents of the world."
This is what Gurbani says but the real purpose for writing this is in next line.
"But without the True Guru, you will not find peace; you will be reincarnated over and over again. ||3||" (Page 26)
See my point. Now you don't see Sikhs (real ones) going around enjoying pleasures of women by saying Guru Ji says "You may" cuz thi
s is wrong. the lesson we learn is something else and that is: we need a True Guru. Also notice that the first line talks about ruling nine continents but we all know there are only seven continents. So the person who translated this is wrong again not Gurbani. My point for writing this is that even though Guru Ji narrated these kinds of stories but you will always find the real lesson in the last lines. Guru Ji didn't just narrate the story, the lesson and the true meaning for us is written also at the end so we can learn. The only way you can relate this to hinduism is if only the stories were written in Gurbani and Sikhs were following the stories but that is not the case. So please do not misuse Gurbani next time. I know you didn't mean to do it intentionally and you are probably hurt cuz what was said to rochak but you misusing Gurbani even unintentionally was hurting also. forgive me if i offended you.
Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh
0 -
Balwinder Singh Ji, it wasn't like there was a competition here. I presented what I know and others presented what they know. We all learned something and I think that is the point of having this discussion board. Whatever I said I gave quotes from Gurbani of Guru Granth Sahib Ji and Dasam Nanak Ji. My point was that idol worship with or without love is fruitless unless rochak or anyone else can provide me with a quote from Gurbani saying that idol worship with true love and devotion is OKAY to do and it will get you there. As far as I know Gurbani does not say idol worship without true love and devotion is fruitless. It says overall idol worship is fruitless no matter how you do it. Of course true love and devotion is something we all need to get there but that only comes after we take Amrit and do Naam Simran. All Shabads in Gurbani prove that only Bhagtee will get you there not idol worship. If idol worship with true love and devotion gets you there then it must be stated in Gurbani somewhere so someone please give me quotes.
Guru Gobind Singh Ji called idol worshippers "animals" and again Guru Ji did not say those people are animals because they don't worship idols with true love and devotion. Guru Ji said those people are just blind and do not see the truth. Bhagat Dhanna Ji doing idol worship fits into this category IF he ever did it but that is not what Gurbani says.
Many kathavachaks say this story, well most of them also say Bhagat Fareed Ji did bhagtee for 36 years living in jungles or hanging upside down in wells. Most of the historians who wrote Sikh history misrepresented Sikhism in one way or another. one tried to prove it is a sect of hinduism anothe
r said it is just an offshoot of islam and hinduism both. Very few historians actually wrote something true about sikhism. Most of the kathavachaks in Sikhism did not receive education from any religious schools. please don't start attacking me but it is a fact. How many people really go to Gurmat Sangeet Schools to learn Kirtan. Many Ragis in Darbar Sahib never went to any music school. Most of the kathavackas just tell you the same stories again and again. They never do any research. I have heard so many kathavackahs saying that Bhai Gurdas Ji is reincarnation of Ganesha and Kavi Bhai Santokh Singh Ji was reincarnation of Bhai Gurdas Ji because Ganesha wrote vedas continuously (according to hinduism). Ganesha is considered a great writer in hinduism and Bhai Gurdas Ji did such a great seva of writing Guru Granth Sahib Ji. This story is false as you all know but I have seen this written in many history books and heard this from many kathavackas in Gurdwaras. Even so called educated people don't understand the true meaning of Gurbani. For example, read the following translation.
Fareed, not even a drop of blood would issue forth, if someone cut my body. Those bodies which are imbued with the Lord - those bodies contain no blood. ||51|| (Page 1380)
So according to this great Gursikhs like Baba Deep Singh Ji, Bhai Mati Das Ji and Bhai Taru Singh Ji and many others contained no blood in their bodies because their bodies were imbued with Lord. Is that right? A person who translated this probably has some PhD and look how he totally gave the wrong meaning of Gurbani. My point for writing all this is that those kathavackas who went to no school at all are wrong. And this example also shows that even educated people make mistakes. A very educated Sikh called Sant Hardev Singh Ji Loolon Wale went to many scholars to study Sikhism. Even he said in Gurdwara that Bhai Jaitaa Ji cut off his father's head and replaced it with Guru tegh bahadur Ji's head which he then took to A
nandpur Sahib to Guru Gobind Singh Ji. When I asked him for proof he said it was written in Gur Partap Sooraj Parkash and yes it is written there but according to Gurmat it is not true. Sant Kartar Singh Ji Bhindranwale did katha on this subject and cleared all the doubts. I have both kathas in case anyone wants to listen. When I told Sant Hardev Singh Ji his so called chelas got mad and Sant Ji told me to leave because he wanted to eat langar. he did not justify anything. My point is just because it is written in some book does not make it true and just because some kathavackhak says it does not make it true. They can only be true if they support it with Gurbani. We have to look at what Gurbani says and what it really means.
Those kathavachaks are wrong unless they can clearly show that Gurbani does accept idol worship with true love and devotion and in that case I would be wrong. About the prayer of Bhagat Dhanna Ji: well, Bhagat Ji had conversation with God after he had darshan and Bhagat Ji refused to do Bhagtee without any food and water "Bhookhay Bhagat na Keejay" So Waheguru Ji asked what Bhagat Ji wanted and Bhagat Ji said the prayer. This actually teaches us a lesson that Bhagtee gets you all those things. truely you wouldn't think after having darshan Bhagat Ji wished for all those things. Bhagat Ji said the prayer after he had darshan. regarding Bhai Gurdas Ji's Vaar, Bhai Sahib Ji is right 100% that only true love and devotion and innocence gets us there but that love does not come without Naam Simran. or does it? tell me if it does. Bhai Sahib says it is love and devotion of Naam Simran that gets you there not idol worship. I am saying this again and again Show me one Shabad from Gurbani that says something else. Gurbani says:
"Naam Dayv, Jai Dayv, Kabeer, Trilochan and Ravi Daas the low-caste leather-worker,
blessed Dhanna and Sain; all those who joined the humble Saadh Sangat, met the Merciful Lord. ||7||" Page (835)
Sangat got Bhgat Ji darshan a
s this Shabad clearly states.
"Naam Dayv's mind was absorbed into God, Gobind, Gobind, Gobind.
The calico-printer, worth half a shell, became worth millions. ||1||Pause||
Abandoning weaving and stretching thread, Kabeer enshrined love for the Lord's lotus feet.
A weaver from a lowly family, he became an ocean of excellence. ||1||
Ravi Daas, who used to carry dead cows every day, renounced the world of Maya.
He became famous in the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy, and obtained the Blessed Vision of the Lord's Darshan. ||2||
Sain, the barber, the village drudge, became famous in each and every house.
The Supreme Lord God dwelled in his heart, and he was counted among the devotees. ||3||
Hearing this, Dhanna the Jaat applied himself to devotional worship.
The Lord of the Universe met him personally; Dhanna was so very blessed. ||4||2||"
This shabad clearly states that Bhagat Ji looked at other Bhagats and how they got the Muktee. Bhagat Dhanna Ji did the same thing. if other bhagats did not do any idol worship then why would Bhagat Dhanna Ji go on do something different when he had all the examples in front of him. Bhai Gurdas Ji narrated the story as told by majority of the people but Bhai Sahib Ji says it was the love of God that got him darshan and again love of God only comes with naam Simran. Bhai Sahib Ji means that this is the story that people believe in and this is what they think but the truth is what the last lines say. Naam Simran brings love which brings darshan. Guru Arjan Dev Ji collected the Bani of other Bhagats that only talks about worship of One Waheguru. None else. Guru Ji rejected the Bani of many bhagats who brought their banis to Guru Ji. For example, two Bhagats came from Lahore and they were rejected. Guru Ji did not take Bani of someone that supports idol worship and conflicts with rest of the Gurbani and include
it in Guru Granth Sahib Ji.
People misinterpret Gurbani, misrepresent it. If you read the book "Hum Hindu Nahin" you will see how hindus have tried to show Sikhism is a sect of Hinduism by using Gurbani. Hindus misunderstood the real meanings and just took the meanings of the words just like the example I have given you above. The person who translated Gurbani took the meanings of the words but failed to realize the deeper meaning. Most of the people do not know the real meaning of "Manas Ki Jaat Sabhay Eaikay Pehchaanbo". if you do then great for you. I am not saying I know Gurbani or I am the right one. I learned from people and learn everyday. I make mistakes and whatever I wrote could be wrong. If I am please correct me so I can learn and so can the others. If I offended anyone please forgive me. I meant no attacks on anyone. You believe in whatever you want but if you say idol worship is right then please give me quotes from Gurbani. So I can learn the truth. Taking this argument further would be waste of time. Again, I apologize if I unintentionally offended anyone or hurt anyone.
Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh
0
To All
in POLITICS | LIFESTYLE
Posted
No, I never said killing men, women and children is the right way. I said we will bring criminals to justice not kill innocent people. Criminals are those who killed our brothers and sisters in 84 and the government did nothing. They were not brought to justice so it is our responsibility to bring justice to them. A criminal cannot be a human let alone being a hindu or Sikh. I hate injustice not human beings. If we have to get Khalistan through war then yes I would pick up my AK-47 as instructed by Guru Gobind Singh Ji. Picking up arms to protect your religion and your homeland is always just. Sikhs never killed innocent people and never will. Just a note: a 14 year old hindu girl in Gujrat said in an interview that she was always taught Sikhs were terrorists. Sikhs never done anything in Gujrat but hatred is pretty alive in those hindus. She knows nothing about Sikhism nor does she know our cause. At least Sikhs know what hindus have done to Sikhs and have the reasons to hate 'em. But anyways, thats not my point nor I support anyone hating hindus. I am against oppression and injustice. Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh