THE WARRIOR

If some one destroys your property they are responsible for its repair.

It's a question of tradition, anakh and izzat. Government funds are unacceptable (something we seem to have forgotten in the West). The government would have made a huge deal about having rebuilt the Akaal Takht for the Sikhs, and made us feel obligated to them. Not to mention that Baba Santa Singh ji's design was very poor - three sides were white washed wall without any windows or doors. The present design is slightly different to what it was pre 1984, but more accurate than the govt. sponsored one and much better looking.

The mentality and personalities that used it as a fortress to serve their own purpose are absolutely blameless?

Name one person who used it for their own purpose, and what that purpose was. Why did the Indians attack the 30 or 40 other Gurudwarey as well? Don't forget that Sant Ji was arrested then released without charge - if all they wanted was him, they wouldn't have released him. The army made plans for the invasion way in advance, as told by former generals - Indira wanted to 'show these dogs their place'.

Nobody who was involved ever claimed Darbar sahib was a fortress, but they did have enough love for Guru Sahib to die protecting it against overwhelming odds.

Read A.R. Darshi's book, he is a Hindu but still managed to present the facts in an unbiased way. Better still, speak to Nihang Baba Nihal Singh Ji, Harian belan.

Ank and ishat is forgotten in the west? There’s a fine line between the two and hankar. In the west we have a of an impartial vision of history it’s not perfect but it’s pretty close but it’s way ahead than the “delete” and “white wash” history that upnai and general Indian mentality is enslaved by.

Baba Santa Singh had the original drawings of the Thakat that’s what they used to correct the 20-30 percent that the army destroyed. The whole complex was not levelled as people would like us to believe.

In the political games of 80’s there was not a Good side and Bad side as people would like to project various personalities and groups being the righteous right and the government being the evil doers. Generally the Karkoos and the government were hated by the general populous of the Panjab equally because both were involved in Human Rights violations, both committed atrocities upon the people who were caught up in the show of muscle between the two sides and even between the different jathas towards their end.

I have spoken to Baba Nihal Singh and I am aware of his experiences and suffering, however he can tell you also that at times both sides had a very similar mentality. You may also want to speak to Amnesty International and others who clearly state that both sides inflicted inhuman suffering on their victims but here the Khalstani chelae will tell you are on the Indian government payroll also!

The pros answer and mentality today is one of total denial, the so called militants who attacked innocent people were government agents and so one and so forth. People need to get real.

Baba Santa Singh didn’t murder any one, didn’t shoot people for not making him roti, didn’t torture people, didn’t order any ones execution, didn’t rape bibia, these were just some of the atrocities committed by both sides the pros and against one camp or another.

India, Panjab and its people etc was/were the birthplace of Spirituality the hub of pondering and studying on the great divine, however no more nor in my opinion it will ever be again. Like the first homo-sapiens that left Africa and today we acknowledge that and give it kudos so has India also become that once upon a time land. There is no land no Panjab no golden state no haven home, Khalistan isn’t going to happen.

There is a universe of Difference between a Khalsa Raj Mentality and A Khalistani one.

If some one destroys your property they are responsible for its repair.

For example, simplified there is no one here that would come forward after some drunk drives his car in to their house and say “because the drunk is a <banned word filter activated> he shouldn’t be financially accountable for the damage”.

The mentality and personalities that used it as a fortress to serve their own purpose are absolutely blameless? they were to blame as much as the governments army who attacked the complex….or maybe they weren’t as their chellae’ Khalastanis spent the 80’s and early 90’s brain washing western youth by claiming Guru ji had designed the Harimandir as a fortress! How laughable, a fortress with four accesses to the world.

FEAR (imagination required)

:rolleyes:

Kam,Valli,Fresh,Satpunga great informative posts……jasleen k representing the unfortunate mindset of some Sikhs today.

Roti Tandoori Init

I love the way people make really hardcore opinions based on unverified documents.

You would have thought some scholar would have produced the document by now. It is not like the Aligarh University has been skimping on translating and publishing their other Persian sources.

Miracle seekers will forever look for supernatural explanations for things because it appeals to their preconceived notions.

But build a tower on something false and watch it come tumbling down sooner and later.

If we had an original amnuscript we couldeasily and very quickly verify its authenticity by analysing the contents (i.e. use of language, style of writing, cross referencing etc.)

Fateh Ji,

This shows that you know nothing of what happens in India. You also underrate the Islam factor.

I think someone has already used the RTI route and I think there should be some clarity very soon.

It's indeed sad that people jump to conclusions... why not wait and see what AMU has to say!

Please keep the powder dry for some more time. Either you will get a chance to use it or the findings will self-pour water over the powder!

Guru Rakha

LoL!! Wha? :6

"bruaah main jaat aaan!!"

Sorry I couldn’t resist!! The temptation was too much LoL!! But seriously; true a lot of Afghan Sikhs do enter matrimony with first cousins as practiced by the host country and its indigenous people.

Maybe I wasn’t clear, from what I understand the original text was in Panjabi or Urdu that’s what I have been told by some “highly acclaimed personalities” (me being polite and non-offensive) who claim to have in-depth knowledge about the account. I too agree the most likely language it would have been written in is Persian.

My understanding is its origin is in Urdu/ Panjabi which makes it even more unrealistic.

there is no mother, father, sister, cousins, these are man-made relations. There is no other but GOD himself. and if you believe in these relations then you are believing in man-made relations. it doesnt mean we give up our family, i love them a lot, but i try and see GOD in them and not try become selfishly attached to them. so then in reality, there is no relationships. there is only one marriage between u and paar brahm. then you love God in everything.

matheen, you always argue back. sikh of the guru says to other sikh "come brother, share your views on GOD with me, and i share mine with you and together we find our husband beloved lord. but the world sits together arguing with each other and both being lost.

but when someone learns the truth, they do not argue, they come to spread the truth to the messages. individual who are arrogant and claim to know everything ignore them, slander them. who loses? the people, not the saint. the saint is already a winner coz hes achieved the goal of his life.

coz if you think you can use your knowledge in science to argue against the truth, then i willl share what gurbani taught me. brother, i am saying i am truthful, but i'd like to share what i think is true. and infact it is all clearly written in gurbani. if there is something i dont know, i never comment on it.

they say sir jave ta jave mera sikhi sidak na java, this means my head can be chopped off the enemy, but the sikh, within my heart shall never disappear.

some people take opposite meaning out of this and think head can go as long as hair dont go. but your sikhi comes from your heart not your image.

you fall in love with someone or get married according to your destiny.

Matheen’s absolutely right if you examine the Muslim community within the U.K; they out of all the South Asian communities suffer from cross genetics faults, deformities and disabilities because of this very issue.

You’re coming from spiritual perception yes we know everything is essentially the one but being conscious life forms we implement moral judgement.

Brahma the creator from himself created his daughter, who he had sex with. Shiva upon knowing this cut off one of his heads to stop his lustful actions. There is a very deep Katha by Giani Sant Singh Maskeen ji on this very issue.

We Panjabees have a saying

“Ma-ma’, Theeya, pana’ sanjia ne”

Roughly translated

“Mothers, daughters and sisters are equal” in respect be they yours or the next mans

I have come across this before apparently it’s done to get a Visa for a relative to come over to U.K. sick ppl out there need a few good slaps and an old fashion kicking with mojae like the ones Gabar wears in Sholay.

One of the rumoured phantom source books is “The History of the Ramgarias” in which the text is said to be apart from others also stated, the book doesn’t exist, never published never seen .I mentioned the Yogic Tantra in jest because to reanimate a physical being by infusing the different qualities of Attma back in to the physical is within this realm. Guru ji of course would have the knowledge, the question is would he have exercised it? I don’t think so, it goes against the very ethos of his mentality. Think about it. Any how I still look forward to someone from the righteous police to find it! LoL Jokers!!

Lol!

Just what I thought - you haven't got a clue what the book is called do you?

History of the Dagoos LoL never published never seen because it doesn’t exist

'Warrior' - thanks for the informative reply. :rolleyes:

What is the name of Abu-ul-Turani's memoirs/book you were searching for?

Colour by numbers and Yogic Tantra reanimation. :rolleyes:

. I spoke with several people at the university in 2006........

So you didn't check the library or archives for yourself? If you ask me whether or not my uni has certain books, I wouldn't know either.......

I know Bahadur claims to have checked the library - but we all know how honest he is.

:lol:

Being an <banned word filter activated> and spending three days in the vicinity and a whole day at the uni library there I spoke with the janitor, the lollypop lady and the cook! I had my lunch in the library it didn’t occur to be to look for the script or any relevance related to it or anyone who had ever seen it.

But I’m sure when the rest of the Indiana Jones brigade turn up there they’ll find it, LoL!! as for javanmard however he may be and believe me he leaves most knowledgeable bhai sahibs out there in a twist, what he found there or didn’t you’d need to question him. But finding it and disproving it (easily done) by him would have been more of a victory than never it being in existence in the first place, well not in the originality that its claming to be.

Its obvious the likes of him and me cant be trusted so I look forward to the few here and out there finding it and proving its authenticity and how full of it I truly am.

Good hunting Good PPL!

Some who want to know the truth will search for it the evidence is there or the lack of it, that’s the best way to go about it. I spoke with several people at the university in 2006. I suggest people find the reality before creating the history that simply isn’t true.

Faith building on falsehood….people should be ashamed.

The account is pure fabrication. Long story short I checked in to this years ago…. The Khalsa and Sikhi doesn't need fairy tales for bravado or to prove any shakti aspect of Guru Gobind Singh Ji.

Get a grip ppl

:lol:

Fateh Ji,

Please could you elaborate on your research based on which you have passed your judgment.

Guru Rakha

The easiest way for you to do it is to contact the university yourself, phone or email or in person as I did the article is not in any archive and there has never been any record of it, it’s pure fabrication.

The account is pure fabrication. Long story short I checked in to this years ago…. The Khalsa and Sikhi doesn’t need fairy tales for bravado or to prove any shakti aspect of Guru Gobind Singh Ji.

Get a grip ppl

:lol:

Gursikhs of Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Gobind Singh Jee Maharaj tend to Love the creator and keep themselfs De-Tached from the creation.

but the majority of the oerld sees them as sikhs and infact they see themsleves as sikhs!

an official statement is needed banning it for ALL SIKHS

Cool love the creator but hate his creation. :rolleyes:

If you were detached from creation you wouldn’t exist Creator and creation are one of the same.

but the majority of the oerld sees them as sikhs and infact they see themsleves as sikhs!

an official statement is needed banning it for ALL SIKHS

Cool love the creator but hate his creation. :rolleyes:

As a Sikh I understand both creation and creator are within you, there is no greater miracle than that.

For me The Guru explains what is true devotion and what is true deception.

I would like to share with the sangat the power of Chaupai Shaib & THE WARRIOR Paji

Me and my singini had been trying for three years to have a child. We went up and down the uk, spoke to numerous doctors. She even tried surgery and that did not help. In the end the Doctors advised that the next step would be IVF treatment. This had a three year waiting list at our hospital and would cost £2500 - £3000 to do it private within 6 months.

We could no way afford this unless we went in to debt, we told my mother about this and she had a word with Amrithari singni who did a lot of path and devoted her life to gurbani. She told us to do 5 chauipa shiabs a day for 40 days.

We were sceptical to say the least but we started to do them that day, within 14 days she was pregnant!

We continued to do them and we keep doing them. We are ashamed to admit it that we forgot the power of bani........we will never forget again!

This is a true story that me and my wife has been through, we are now having our second child!

This is two people doing Chaupai Shaib.............Now there thousands if not tens of thousands doing Chaupai Shaib Path.........believe......there will be a change!

.....waheguru has a lot of love

Thank you for sharing that Pure, however this is a different cause and a different motivation what you have described I totally believe in and respect and also have come across others who have had very similar experiences. Many here think I’m questioning Bani and Guru, I’m not but it’s easy for them to be critical and try to play this point because they cant comprehend the question. What I’m asking and no one yet has seemed to have answered is what and how will change come? and what would they like to see happen in regards to the purpose of this mass prayer syndicate? In order for it to work the actual thinking and the mentality of people will need to change by miraculous force, how can we pray for such a thing? how can we ask God to change to makeup mentality of people on a massive scale?

I think someone's got a diarrhea of a sort..

I suggest you see your g.p