Pheena

Do Sikhs need MTV Base?

When they've got

Undergroundsikhi

i tried to download few songs yesterday, ur server kept on timing me out!!!!!!

BEFORE 1469 THERE IS NO SIKHI? WHAT DOES IT MEANS? OUR ROOTS ARE FROM HINDUISM?

PLZ THINK BEFORE GIVING ANSWER..........

YOUR BROHTER

HONEY

i could be very wrong here so please don't accept this until someone has confirmed this.

but there weren't any Sikhs until the 10th guru. Guru nanak was not Sikh nor were any of the Gurus until the 10th Guru. Guru Nanaks religion was Truth and whomever practices the Truth is a Sikh.

... no gender...

thankx to pheena ji... that makes sense...

... but then why are we refered to as the soul bride.. ??? :umm: .. i'm sorry i'm still confused a lil...

... it makes sense that waheguru ji has no gender .. and it would be understable to think that the soul has no gender...

then why again and again in gurbani.. our soul is refered to as the soul bride???.. :umm: .. someone help me out here... i'd appreciate it..

Thankyou

waheguru ji ka khalsa

waheguru j ki fateh

Again i must say, that is simply a Bond with God created by a Relationship. Guru Nanak mentions the soul as a bride Metaphorically. The Bond between God and the soul is of Marriage, as the Sohaagan (Newly wed bride) awaits for the arrival of her husband as is the soul awaiting for God.

It is a Metaphore........You can create any relationship with God you wish, he can be your friend, your brother, your Husband, your wife, your mother, your father.

To have a relationship with god is more involving mentally. It brings closeness. Some think of god is no other but a mother who nurtures, loves, diciplins, guides her son/daughter as is the duty of a mother.

Metaphor

n : a figure of speech in which an expression is used to refer to something that it does not literally denote in order to suggest a similarity

hmm i wish i knew what a kakar and keski is?? :T: :umm:

How many Sikhs that post here have taken Amrit?

How old were you when you took it?

just wondering ji :umm: )

Waheguru

i give up

if u dont want to take amrit, and u consider sikhi and the gurus unimportant, just dont take it, but dont expect a hug and pat on the back

waheguru ji, If you are taking offense to my last post, i've said noting which proves that Taking Amrit is Wrong, Im just trying to understand it whether taking amrit is as necessary as doing Simran??

ohh.. i see where you are coming from veer..

heres the thing, you see the importance of simran.. but you dont see the connection to amrit. But heres what sikhi says, without amrit, you cannot do simran. Amrit is getting the naam, now from panj, which is guru sahibs roop, before it was charan pahul and guru sahib in human form.

So without getting naam from panj, what simran are you doing? you cannot do simran, and if you could, without rehat it is like filling a strainer with milk!

so if i udnerstand you correctly, Taking Amrit is Before Simran, implying that Taking amrit is on a higher level than simran??

My apologies if i did not understand it as you intended.

If the soul is female then God MUST be Male obviously. Ummmm this is Christiran thinking that god has a gender, again if he is male, there must be an opposite a Female.

He is unknowable, infinite, unapproachable and imperceptible. He is not subject to death or karma. His caste is casteless; He is unborn, self-illumined, and free of doubt and desire. || 1 || I am a sacrifice to the Truest of the True. He has no form, no color and no features; through the True Word of the Shabad, He reveals Himself. || Pause || He has no mother, father, sons or relatives; He is free of sexual desire; He has no wife. He has no ancestry; He is immaculate. He is infinite and endless; O Lord, Your Light is pervading all. || 2 || Deep within each and every heart, God is hidden; His Light is in each and every heart. The heavy doors are opened by Guru's Instructions; one becomes fearless, in the trance of deep meditation. || 3 || The Lord created all beings, and placed death over the heads of all; all the world is under His Power. [sGGS Page 597 ]

You have no form or shape, no social class or race. These humans believe that You are far away; but You are quite obviously

apparent. You enjoy Yourself in every heart, and no filth sticks to You. You are the blissful and infinite Primal Lord God; Your Light is all-pervading. Among all divine beings, You are the most divine, O Creator-architect, Rejuvenator of all. How can my single tongue worship and adore You? You are the eternal, imperishable, infinite Lord God. [ SGGS Page 1096]

From woman, man is born; within woman, man is conceived; to woman he is engaged and married. Woman becomes his friend; through woman, the future generations come. When his woman dies, he seeks another woman; to woman he is bound. So why call her bad? From her, kings are born. From woman, woman is born; without woman, there would be no one at all. O Nanak, only the True Lord is without a woman. [sGGS Page 473 ]

Again i must say, that is simply a Bond with God created by a Relationship. Guru Nanak mentions the soul as a bride Metaphorically. The Bond between God and the soul is of Marriage, as the Sohaagan (Newly wed bride) awaits for the arrival of her husband as is the soul awaits for God. It is a Metaphor. God is not a he or she!!!!! You can create any relationship with God you wish, he can be your friend, your brother, your Husband, your wife, your mother, your father.

Page:685

He is not male, and He is not female; how can anyone describe Him?

If God him self has no Gender, how can the Soul (Aatma) which is a p

art of God (ParmAatma) have a gender??? The Aatma in itself is no different from God himself. The Joat (soul) that is you is no different than the Eternal Joat (God).

The Aatma is a part of the ParmAtama. If the Atma has a gender then so must ParmAtama.

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw!

vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

true but i think so there are some question wich has no answer dont we think so

well u can use simple logic, if there

is a female soul, then somewhere there must be a male soul, and they must appear different, how is Light buring on a Candle different than burning on a deeva? The Duality only exists in the physical world.

i don't think it matter what side you wear it on, the logical way would be to wear it on the hand you use the most, to remind you of its purpose.

The Aatma is a part of the ParmAtama. If the Atma has a gender then so must ParmAtama.

As far as Gurus saying the soul as a bride and the husbad as god, Then how would u explain this,

Tu mayra Pita, Tu Mayra mata, Tu mayra Banthap, Tu Mayra Bhrata.

HOw can Waheguru be a father to his wife and a mother and a friend and a brother at the same time.

The relationship between the you and god is depended on you, He can be your friend if you want, or your mother or brother. To me Personally he is my mother, simply because as much as my mother has shown me love, i think only god can show even greater love.

The soul is Genderless, the body has a gender, When we reincarnate from a male body to a female body we take that bodys gender and we accept it. If the soul was Female then we'd reject the Male Body and be more lienient towards the female body.

pheena you take amrit because bhai gudas says to be a sikh you have to take amrit. the gurus acknowledged varan as the key to the guru granth.

rehatnamas and gurujis own hukams make it obvious that amrit is not just good, but COMPULSORY for a sikh of the guru. so do SGGS quotes, since amrit existed even in guru nanaks time.

if you cant understand the shabad, again, dont assume u are right and bhai sahib is wrong, why not read his book and make a decision? every line of gurbani has a meaning which only becomes 100percent clear to the enlightened soul.

what i "take offence to" or rather, ticks me off, is when people shy away from a harder lifestyle and try to justify by proving the thing wrong, rather than themselves wrong. i openly admit im a moorakh and a fool, who hasnt taken amrit, and need it. what others, not neccesarily you think, is, subconsciously, amrit is far too hard to stay by so lets try and make excuses to show how its not neccesary.

ever noticed how many excuses people come up with to show that kesh isnt needed any more? not relevant to todays society, not compulsory to be a sikh, etc?

but have you ever heard any irreligious sikh question the kara in teh same way? no, because its an easy thing to wear a kara, but not so easy to grow a dhari/long hair. its become a fashion statement. it doesnt involve any dedication or love for sikhi, now even non sikh indians wear it. in the same way, w

e only question things which we dont like or imply harder work.

It was not my translation, it was translated by a Sant which makes more sense to me that does the 5 Piyaray, I did not say Bhai sahib was wrong, it was translated thru another's perception. You can say im wrong simply based on im a Munmukh and thas fine with me. But i did not say that, it is something i've heard which i've written to the best of my memory. I'd be more than willing to post that clip for you.

Perhaps i did not make it clear earlier, i did not make this thread to prove that its wrong for a sikh to take amrit, im simly questioning the necessity of taking amrit. As for the rest of your posts, i think they have hit home and i greatly apprecite your input.

and with waheguru's grace i can turn from this > B) to this

http://www.gursikhi.org/keertanpage.htm

there are quite a few on this page, can't remember which ones they are tho.

i give up

if u dont want to take amrit, and u consider sikhi and the gurus unimportant, just dont take it, but dont expect a hug and pat on the back

waheguru ji, If you are taking offense to my last post, i've said noting which proves that Taking Amrit is Wrong, Im just trying to understand it whether taking amrit is as necessary as doing Simran??

gr8 pic.vicky jee, gurudwara with white building n sarowar is gurdwara in tarn taran sahib .

waheguru, thanks for the answer, i keep forgetting to ask my bebe..

btw that is the largest Sarovar in all of the GuruDwaras.

Panj Pyare are the way to salvation for a Sikh...and they administer Khande-Di-Pahul.  Bhai Sahib Bhai Randheer Singh even analyzed the Japji Sahib lines starting with Panch (Panch Parvan, Panch Pardhan...) and concluded that these Panch (Panch meaning 5 members of an wise persons) were the Panj Pyare for Sikhs.

Punch Parvaan Punch Pardhan

Punchay pavay Darghay maan,

Punchay Sohahi dar raajaan

Puncha ka gur Aik Dhayan.

HOw do u get the 5 Piyaray from this???

The Translation that i have heard points to the inside world not the 5 Chosen ones

The 5 Senses, your 5 sense are the ones that are controlling you they are Pardhan

They are the Slaves of their 5 senses. Touch, Taste, Smell, Sight, Hearing.

The 5 that are honored in the court of the god are the (5 Virtues) Compassion, Love, Patience ( can't remember all of them)

Don't know what Sohahai means!!

Turn the 5 senses onto THE ONE and meditate.

Guru Nanak mentions nothing about the 5 piyaray in the Japji Sahib. It is the 10th Nanak which gives them status.

The answer you were looking for is in Bold. there not 28 but 8.4 Million hells, which gives assurance to the notion that reincarnation in itself is hell for a Munmukh.

Page 1071 & 1072

MARU, SOLAHAS, FIFTH MEHL:

ONE UNIVERSAL CREATOR GOD. BY THE GRACE OF THE TRUE GURU:

He infused His power into the earth. He suspends the heavens upon the feet of His Command. He created fire and locked it into wood. That God protects all, O Siblings of Destiny. || 1 || He gives nourishment to all beings and creatures. He Himself is the all-powerful Creator, the Cause of causes. In an instant, He establishes and disestablishes; He is your help and support. || 2 || He cherished you in your motherís womb. With every breath and morsel of food, He is with you, and takes care of you. Forever and ever, meditate on that Beloved; Great is His glorious greatness! || 3 || The sultans and nobles are reduced to dust in an instant. God cherishes the poor, and makes them into rulers. He is the Destroyer of egotistical pride, the Support of all. His value cannot be estimated. || 4 || He alone is honorable, and he alone is wealthy, within whose mind the Lord God abides. He alone is my mother, father, child, relative and sibling, who created this Universe. || 5 || I have come to God's

Sanctuary, and so I fear nothing. In the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy, I am sure to be saved. One who adores the Cre

ator in thought, word and deed, shall never be punished. || 6 || One whose mind and body are permeated with the Lord, the treasure of virtue, does not wander in birth, death and reincarnation. Pain vanishes and peace prevails, when one is satisfied and fulfilled. || 7 || My Lord and Master is my best friend.The Inner-knower, the Searcher of hearts, is in all places and interspaces. Meditating, meditating in remembrance on the Perfect Transcendent Lord, I am rid of all anxieties and calculations. || 8 || One who has the Name of the Lord has hundreds of thousands and millions of arms. The wealth of the Kirtan of the Lord's Praises is with him. In His Mercy, God has blessed me with the sword of spiritual wisdom; I have attacked and killed the demons. || 9 || Chant the Chant of the Lord, the Chant of Chants. You shall not see the 8.4 million types of hell; sing His Glorious Praises and remain saturated with loving devotion || 10 || He is the Savior of worlds and galaxies. He is lofty, unfathomable, inaccessible and infinite. That humble being, unto whom God grants His Grace, meditates on Him. || 11 || God has broken my bonds, and united me with Himself. In His Mercy, He has made me the slave of His home. The unstruck celestial sound current resounds and vibrates, when one performs acts of true service. || 12 || O God, I have enshrined faith in You within my mind. My egotistical intellect has been driven out. God has made me His own, and now I have a glorious reputation in this world. || 13 || Proclaim His Glorious Victory, and meditate on the Lord of the Universe. I am a sacrifice, a sacrifice to my Lord God. I do not see any other except Him. The One Lord pervades the whole world. || 14 || True, True, True is God. By Guruís Grace, my mind is attuned to Him

forever. Your humble servants live by meditating, meditating in rememb

rance on You, merging in You, O One Universal Creator. || 15 || The Dear Lord is the Beloved of His humble devotees. My Lord and Master is the Savior of all. Meditating in remembrance on the Naam, the Name of the Lord, all desires are fulfilled. He has saved the honor of servant Nanak. || 16 || 1 ||

kala afghana and his people all beleive that dasam granth is not bani.. they decided that all amrit is invalid..

kala afghana was excommunicated few months ago and his main followers are about to be..

this article is just saying stuff similar to them that some stuff is not bani.. so thats why i said that..

hmm never heard of this kala afghana, but thansk for the explanation.

I really don't care if there are 14 hells or 1400 but what I'm trying to understadn is we pay for our sins in hell and in reincarnation?

If you just sit there without knowing and try to shut someone down who seeks knowledge, then I can't respect that.

my apologies, i didn't mean for you to take what i said in that manner, i was takling from experience that when you begin to feel the Anand from wahegurus name, the questions that you have begin carry no meaning and all that matters is the feeling, the love.

My advice is to go to www.srigranth.org/ type in the word hell, im sure you'll find your answer.

As for knowledge of heaven and hell i came across the following quotes

Page 24

SIREE RAAG, FIRST MEHL, THIRD HOUSE:

Make good deeds the soil, and let the Word of the Shabad be the seed; irrigate it continually with the water of Truth. Become such a farmer, and faith will sprout. This brings knowledge of heaven and hell, you fool! || 1 || Do not think that your Husband Lord can be obtained by mere words. You are wasting this life in the pride of wea

lth and the splendor of beauty. || 1 || Pause || The defect of the body which leads to sin is the mud puddle, and this mind is the frog, which does not appreciate the lotus flower at all. The bumble bee is the teacher who continually teaches the lesson. But how can one understand, unless one is made to understand? || 2 || This speaking and listening is like the song of the wind, for those whose minds are colored by the love of Maya. The Grace of the Master is

bestowed upon those who meditate on Him alone. They are pleasing to His Heart. || 3 || You may observe the thirty fasts, and say the five prayers each day, but 'Satan' can undo them. Says Nanak, you will have to walk on the Path of Death, so why do you bother to collect wealth and property? || 4 || 27 ||

Page-337

GAUREE POORBEE:

Don't wish for a home in heaven, and donít be afraid to live in hell. Whatever will be will be, so donít get your hopes up in your mind. || 1 || Sing the Glorious Praises of the Lord, from whom the most excellent treasure is obtained. || 1 || Pause || What good is chanting, penance or self-mortification?

What good is fasting or cleansing baths, unless you know the way to worship the Lord God with loving devotion? || 2 || Donít feel so delighted at the sight of wealth, and donít weep at the sight of suffering and adversity. As is wealth, so is adversity; whatever the Lord proposes, comes to pass. || 3 || Says Kabeer, now I know that the Lord dwells within the hearts of His Saints; that servant performs the best service, whose heart is filled with the Lord.

I did notice that many times this line or similar to being " reincarnated into heaven and hell" is repeated in the SGGS.

The mortal is reincarnated, again and again, into heaven and hell.

what my Budhi tell me that heaven and hell is no other than earth.

Think of heaven and hell as a mother lures her child to sweet things if he does good and punishes her if hes done bad. Think of it as that nothing more.

my apologies again

Waheguru

i just want to say few words that i didn't even click on the link ..... I would not even bother worrying about such #'s of hells or what so ever regarding anothers speculation. All it is Specuation, don't make your mind fall in more confusion that it already is in. Don't read too much into something that will make no difference in the end.

What will you gain from knowing that there are 28 hells?? will that make you sin less??? i doubt it, if you are not scared from 1 hell i don't think you will be scared from 100 hells.

what page of our Guru Granth sahib is the Shaloak about Rehat written on??

They were picked up from the stories of Hindu

Avtars included in a compilation now called Dasam Granth.

"compilation"??

hmm seems a bit kala afghanaish to me.. :umm:

please elaborate, i didnt' even read teh whole quote before i posted it :umm:

yea beside few people loosing their eyes, it is great fun....

I was searching for somethign else but found this...

http://members.pgonline.com/~mpurewal/chapter02.html

8. In some Gutkas, why are the Banis and Ardas longer than normal?

All Gutkas have the same length of Banis in them. It is only in the case of Rehras that a

few Gutkas have a couple of additional Shabads. Ardas of course is different in different Gutkas

because it was written by different persons. We should all follow the standard Ardas and Rehras

written in the Gutkas printed by the Gurdwara committee, Amritsar and the Sikh Missionary

College, Ludhiana.

Differences in Rehras have history behind them. This Bani was originally known as

So-Dar. The title Rehras however became popular later on, perhaps because of the live - Har

Keerat Hamri Rehras -- in the fourth shabad. The Rehras approved by the Khalsa Panth and

mentioned in the Sikh Reht Maryada Tract and regularly read at Akal Takhat consists of:

a) i) So-Dar ii) So-Purkh. Nine Shabads in all as mentioned in the Guru Granth Sahib before the

start of Ragas.

B) Chaupai including Swaya and Dohra from Dasam Granth.

c) The Rehras is concluded by reading the first five and last Pauri of Anand Sahib, followed by

the last Slokas in the Guru Granth Sahib.

Addit

ions to the above prescribed Paath and reasons for them:

In every Gurdwara people get together for evening Diwan callled So-Dar Diwan. Before

starting the So-Dar Bani recitation, it was common (it is practiced at Akal Takhat and many other

Gurdwaras even now) to sing some Shabads. When the Kirtan starts, Sangat knows that it is

time for So-Dar recitation. They gather there and listen to the Kirtan of the Shabads before the

start of the Rehras Paath. This helps tuning their minds to Gurbani. At the fixed time the Kirtan is

stopped and a Sikh recites the Paath.

Wherever Kirtan could not be sung in a Gurdwara, because of the non-availability of the

Ragis there, the Sangat would jointly recite Shabads in rhythm. This would give Sikhs time to sit,

settle and concentrate their minds before the start of reciting Rehras.

Later, when printing of Gutkas started, the Shabads commonly read by the Sangat were

also printed along with the Rehras. This was to facilitate the correct singing of Shabads before

starting the Rehras. However, having sung these Shabads over a long period of time, Sikhs

mistakenly assumed the Shabads to be a part of Rehras. As different Sangats recited different

Shabads to their liking, the contents and hence the length of the Rehras became different

accordingly.

To remove this misunderstanding, the Sikh Reht Maryada expressly states that Rehras

Paath starts from the Shabad So-Dar and ends at Salok Mahala 5: Tera Keeta ... Anything

printed before So-Dar or after Mahala 5 is not a part of Rehras.

Some Sikhs, however, made many more additions on their own after the Chaupai. The

Khalsa Panth have decided not to include any of them as a part of Rehras. They are not allowed

to be read as a part of Rehras.

Even a little attention paid to the meaning of additional couplets chosen from Avtar

Kathas easily proves that their reading as a part of Rehras is wrong. For example, one couplet

tells that Vishnu devotees face no problems while th

e other couplet contradicts it saying that one

should not pray to Vishnu, Krishan or other gods. Basically, the message of many of the added

couplets is against the directions of Gurbani. They were picked up from the stories of Hindu

Avtars included in a compilation now called Dasam Granth.

The Gutkas published by the Gurdwara Committee, Amritsar and other such

organizations have the correct Rehras Paath. Only the Gutkas published by the private printers

include extra Shabads after Chaupai. This is against the ruling of the Reht Maryada.

Instead of agreeing with the scholars and the orders of the Guru Khalsa Panth, some

Sikhs argue that reading extra Bani is more beneficial. Hence, they think that they are “better”

Sikhs than those who read the standard Rehras. One is welcome to read as many hymns as he

wishes to but no individual has a right to make any additions to the approved Rehras Paath. It

should be read as directed. Other Banis can be read whenever one wants, but not as a part of

the Rehras.

Does manikaran sahib comes on the way to Hemkund sahib?

from what i know it does...its generally used as a resting place on the journey to Hemkunt sahib.

Hemkunt sahib is only open for a few month a year in the summer, because of the Elevation and the weather.

Jee,

Guru Gobind Singh Jee said "Rehat pyare mujh ko, sikh pyare nahi"

The rehat or the actual showing of the love is more important to guru sahib than the sikh himself.. guru sahib loves your rehat, not who you are..

you can say oh i love u all you want, but with no commitment or no proof, what love is really there?

so form your understanding, taking Amrit is a way to show commitment??