Inder Singh

How would it look if I went around and pointed at Rulda Singh and Kala Afghana (who according to themselves both learnt from Dam Dami Taksal) - of course they too must represent the DDT, and jatha bhindra - according to your standards?

I have no soft corner for Rulda singh.he left Damdami Taksal and joined rSS.He is a traitor of panth.

Are you joking here.kala afghana taking his education from Damdami taksal.the biggest lie again.Kala afghana was a 8th standard police man.He knows nothing about religion.A drunken fellow was purched by agents of anti sikh organizations and brought to Canada.

Every person is entitled to their own views - the Collage isn't going to brainwash you - it will give you the knowledge of Gurbani - the FACTS from Akal Thakhat - if you want to become a Bhai Pinderpal Singh - good on you. If you want to become a "poisonous, herectic views spreaders" it's on you

The issue here are moral standards.Lying is never accepted in human life.Gurbani stresses time and again to build our base on truthful living.SMC is not only lying but also printing blasphemous literaure in Sikh phulwari taking that from excommunicated heretic spokesman.

Why is this logic is only applied on SMC and not DDT? You know that you can find tons of other personalities from sant samaj (and DDT in specific if that makes you happier) – of their manmat activities; of their links with RSS. Panthic.org even has photo and audio evidence of this.

Why the double standards?

Damdami taksal has proved their love for sihi by giving immense sacrifices in sikh struggles.Only a fool will call them anti sikh.On the otehr hand i am warning my sikh brotehrs and sisiters to bebeware of thses SMCs who are doing anti sikh activities and lying nakedly.

We have to say the truth so that reality is known and sikhs confront thsese self made missionaries who want to undo sikh history.

Mr V

Inder singh is not lying.It is sikh missioanry college that is lying repeatedly.It is who is lying here unashamedly inspite of all the facts presented to you.

I have no love for Iqbal singh.

Veer Inder Singh jee, you are still avoiding my post. You claim others lie, however, what would we say about the following which you have missrepresented: SMC Ludhiana attacking nam; SMC Ludhiana the back bone of Kala Afghana, SMC Ludhiana having the same ideology as Inder Singh Ghagga (Im just wondering, have you ever read his articles or books? If not how can you make this claim?), SMC not following the Panthic Sikh REhit maryada, SMC Ludhiana against the Akal Takhat etc. dont worry about other peoples lies, look at your own false claims. All this tu tu mah mah is a waste of time, Nobady here agrees with Inder Singh Ghagga so we are all wasting our time, however you avoid my post on SMC Ludhiana and the panthic Sikh rehit maryada and keep on discussing tu tu mah mah.

I cant open the file from sant saphia, it keeps says file damaged, could some email it me or copy and paste it me.

Veer S1ngh jee, firstly the article I think you are refering to in called Vichoor ja bidawa. Its written by Giani Surjeet Singh from Delhi. I just wish to make some clarifications on this issue. I dont agree with his conclusions, but his main issue is whether there was a bidawa or vichoora. He does not question the shahidi of the chali mukhti. (ienHF mhfn sLhIdF dI byimsfl smrpx aqy kurbfxI vflI GWtxf qF ipWCy rih geI aqy bydfvy vflf imlfvtI pWK AuBr ky sfry sMsfr ivc puWj igaf. last paragraph of his article). To be honest I feel he has no basis for his claims and its all based on guess work, therefore personally I refute his arguments. Im not keen on any of his articles either.

However, its funny how one persons writings seem to represent the whole institution. Im concluding this by the word Missionaries (plural) being used. Although I cannot say how many missionarys or if any believe in this theory, the official line and the SMC institution itself, does not teach this opinion of Giani Surjeet Singh.

Ghorandhar ji

Why you are not able to open that article when everyone else has been able to open it.I give the link again.

http://www.santsipahi.org/patshahi10/Sri%2...ngh%20Punnu.pdf

Apart from exposing the lies of SMC Ludhiana the article goes on to say that SMC Ludhiana claims that they are producing sikh missionaries and obey akal takhat.But in actuality they are unashemedly quoting spokesman newspapers blasphemous writings in their publications continuously.He says that in Sikh Phulwari,SMC magazine of Feb. 2007 they are publishing derogatory articles about Dasam Granth from Spokesman newspaper.He says that especially read page 25,26 and 27 and know how treacherous and liars are these people of SMC.

Your telling that you cannot access the article of sant sipahi is also a big lie.This gentleman Haroal singh Pannu is brother of Inder Ghagha.I know everything about Ghagha and his past also.I know how much education he has and where he was working and for how long he was jailed for stealing before joining course of sikh missionary college Ludhiana.

For additional information watch below videos of Inder Ghagha debating about his blasphemous books.

http://www.panthic.org/news/123/ARTICLE/2816/2006-10-11.html

Inder Singh you are as confused as the writer of that article. He says Ghagga was a professor of SMC and then says that the spokesmen of Gurmat Missionary College lied when they said they did not know who Ghagga was. What is it with you opponents of SMC, you keep mixing up the different colleges.

Proactive

I am not confused.It is you who is lying now.The writer writes that when SMC was asked about his links with Ghagha ,they said that they do not know any ghagha .Who is lying?

Do not try to be smart.It is written SMC Ludhiana.

I have a lot of respect for people who actually read what Ghagga or Kala Afghana has written and then debate with them in order to prove their assertion wrong. Anyone who just goes around spreading rumours has way too much time on his hands!

Read the post on Ghagha revealation.he was prof and principal of SMC Ludhiana for ten years.When he talked blasphemy journalists asked this college about Ghagha,they shamelessly say they do not know any Ghagha.Does religion teach us to lie.What education these liars will give to their students.Like teachers and like chelas and you seem to be one of the chelas.

Sikhs earned respect in this world because of truthfulness.These so called missionaries are teaching young sikh boys how to lie.Shame on them.

You prove that he was. I'm not going to refute your statements unless you can prove he was. I’m not wasting my time on refuting your hearsay.

We've proved that he has nothing to do with the SMC today - and the SMC has openly said that they have nothing to do with Ghagha - for me that’s enough.

When asked to provide reference you mention a book, which isn't even in the Sikh Missionary Book register. Who's lying?

Again your lies have been spotted. Your lies have been spotted again and again.

V and other singh defending liars called missionaries ,please read the article below throwing light on Ghagha.the first line says that Inder Ghagha was prof and principal of SMC Ludhiana for ten years.When Ghagha was excommunicated shameless missionaries lied that they did not know any Ghagha.What a shameless characters these missionaries are made of.That is what they are taeching to their students.Tell lies.

http://www.santsipahi.org/patshahi10/Sri%2...ngh%20Punnu.pdf

On the other hand Inder Singh Ghagga and others like him claim that none of the Dasam Granth is the bani of Guru Gobind Singh jee.

Read below

Then also i is certain that before martyrdom of Bhai Mani singh ji this bir was prepared.After Bhai mani singh,Baba deep singh ji and bhai sukha singh etc got more material and prepared more sections of this Granth per their wishes.

Dasam Granth bare sankhep jankari,Page 8 SMC Ludhiana

Then Result is that Chaubis avtar,charitropakhayan,and bachitra natak are compositions of bahts,poets ,Pandits and tenth Guru had given recognition to these .To accord respect to these compositions Guru ji told that these are his writings.

Page 18,Dasanm granth bare sankhep jankari,SMC Ludhiana

Now tell my friend can there be a blasphemy of higher order than above.Is this book traceble or not.

Was Ghagha a professor at SMC ,Ludhiana or not?Answer ,please.

Inder SInghs lies have been showed again and again.

There is no point in carrying on. Ghorandhar has already told him that the Sikh Phulwari (under SMC) REJECTED ghaghas writings much prior to ghagha being famous for his anti Dasam Granth writing. Even BEFORE the AKal Thakhat matta came - he was rejected - yet Inder Singh is doing everything he can to try to make it seem like Sikh Missionary supports Ghagha; whereas Sikh Missionary has OFFICIALLY AND UNOFFICIALLY rejected him.

Mr V

No need to beat about bush.You are adding lies to your earlier lies.

My Quaestion

Was Ghagha a professor at SMC Ludhiana or not?

Bur SMC principal Bedi supports Kala afghana at Mohali mini sarbat khalsa.That book is there my friend .I do not live in india.i can get you a copy.

My question,please do not dodge it

Was Inder Ghagha a professor at SMC Ludhiana or not.

Sunny singh ji

To know the part being played by missionaries for anti sikh activities you need to know the role of ex cop kala afghana.he was brought to Canada for blasphemous acitivties.To know about him please visit

http://www.panthkhalsa.org/kala/kala.php

My messiah? You must know me more than I do, because I don't support any Kala Afghana or Chitta Afghana or any other Rang daar Afghana. Oh I forgot anyone supporting SMC is automatically a Kala Afghana supporter!

But sikh missionary college are back bone of kala afghana sect.Will you please talk on their actions instead of worthless replies.I have given enough material for one to ponder upon.

Gurbani condemns ritualism sans naam simran.That is called empty ritualism.In other words those people who want to realize God only through ritualism are mistaken.

When a religion grows,to organize it rituals have to be observed.like Guru Amardas ji asked sikhis to come to Gonidwal sahib for amawas.the purpose was to preach sikh principles to gathering.

Hindu Jats also became Sikhs to join the Jat regiments of the British army.

this is news to me.Jat regiments are hindu regiments.Sikh regiments are separate from Jat regiments.

In sikh bulletin of Feb 2008 Ghagha's article is there with heading"Naam mSimran ik gorakh Dhandha" ( Naam simran is a useless work).What type of naam these missionaries are teaching to their students.

February 2008? That means he still hasn't quit! Bhai Kulbir Singh Ji devastated all his logics and Ghagha gave his word that he will change the title. This was September-October 2006. Its been 1.5 years almost, and he is using the same title? Guru pyaareyo are you sure it was February 2008 issue? If it was, really a shame! He gave his word he will change title!

Mehtab singh ji

Yes i am sure.that is where kapat (tricking) lies.Please raed below about these missionaries taunts on the lines of kala afghana

quote

Mostly Granthis of historical gurudwaras wash the place of prakash asthan with milk.This a copy of moorti puja and is big manmat.If they want to wash this place at all then they should wash it with phenyl so that they get rid of mosquitos,flies and otehr insects.

Sikh rauhreet,Gurmat missionary college Page 6

Unquote

Mehtab singh ji

These missionaries are bed fellows of kala afghana.Ghagha was a professor at Sikh Missionary college Ludhiana for ten years.When he was hauled up for blasphemy they started diswoning him.That is the biggest lie.Basically they lie.

In sikh bulletin of Feb 2008 Ghagha's article is there with heading"Naam mSimran ik gorakh Dhandha" ( Naam simran is a useless work).What type of naam these missionaries are teaching to their students.

These people think thye are too clever but time is going to catch them in the long run.They eat from sikhs and slander sikh traditions.

<<<<Where are these statements; show us the signature of the Sikh Missionary Collage - on these "anti sikh statements"

Show us; unless you can prove it - as far as Iä' concerned; you just making stuff up>>>>

Response

Have not you seen the signature of KanwarMohinder singh Bedi for support of so called sarbat khalsa in the opening post of mine?

As ghorandhar mentioned; You are free to write about any individual it pleases you - but when it comes to the institution you're statements are futile without any of their official sources - or alternative sources that question THE INSTITUTION - along with EVIDENCE - such as the anti Sikh statement you have claimed existing - if they're signed on behalf of the institution – please who us.

Now show us this blasphemous literature printed by the missionary; because ghorandhar has already answered you; ghaghas writings were banned PRIOR to him being asked to pesh to Akal Thakhat; in the Missionary magazine. Show us the anti sikh statements signed on behalf of the missionary

I am not lying it is you who are lying.You have not replied to my question.Question is

Was Inder singh Ghagha a professor at sikh missioanry C. Ludhian for 10 years or not?

Now coming to blasphemy

Panth should use pritham akal purakh simar ke instead of pritham bhagauti in sikh ardas.Otherwise it is confusion of Devi in Pritham bhagauti

From Sikh rauhreet Page 4 Sikh missionary college.

Did akal takhat asked you to write this.

<<<<Whatever your views on the SMC, one thing you will never see is them associating with the RSS or lying to the Sikh sangat for 20 years about the martyrdom of 20th Century's greatest Sikh Shaheed.>>>

You call him a shaheed and your messiah kala afghana name calls him.What a double standard?

mandeep ji

For kala afghana please see

www.panthkhalsa.org

Please click on

Kala afghana an educated scholar or intelligence agent.

I wil provide you the blasphemous literaure also.Now you admit that these missionary colleges support this chandal chaukri.Do you deny that?

Gurtej singh is a maverick who has no stand in life.He supports kala afghana who name calls Bhindrewale and condemns sikh struggle.

I have a question for you.Was Inder singh Ghagha who wrote derogatory about Guru nanak dev ji and Guru arjan dev ji a professor of sikh missionary college Ludhiana for a number of years or not?Let us see how trythful are you.

Ajit singh Bains saw through game and withdrew.Sarbat khalsa is held at akal takhat and akal takhat jathedar is the only person who calls it.

It was a show of anti sikh sect to protest the excommunication of kala afghana who wrote anti sikh literature.

Sangat ji

There are a few veers like Ghaurandhar and Mr V who have been saying that missionary colleges of Punjab have nothing to do with Kala afghana, Joginder singh of spokesman etc. In fact they are fully backing these excommunicated individuals. Varoius news references were given by me but like a clever lawyer they have been citing some irrelevant news to side track the issue.

It is time for us to know how these semi educated missionaries who ahve not seen the gates of institutes of higher learning are doing immense damage to Sikhism.

Given below is the news item where name of present Principal of Ludhiana missionary college figures prominently as backer of a so called sarbat khalsa called at mohali by backers of Kala afghana. In view of this to deny any of their involvement in anti Sikh activities is plain thuggery.

We need to be aware of such impostors.

http://www.sikhtimes.com/news_102403a.html

The following is the list of signatories to the press release issued by the convention's organizing committee:

Gurtej Singh, S.G.P.C. National Professor of Sikhism and former I.A.S. officer

Ajit Singh Bains, former justice of the Punjab and Haryana High Court (Chandigarh, Punjab, India)

Dalip Singh, former president of the J&K Sikh Gurdwara Board

Kanwar Mohinder Partap Singh, Principal, Gurmat Gyan Missionary College, Ludhiana, Punjab

Major General (Retd.) Narinder Singh, World Sikh Council

Rajinder Singh, Convener, Shiromani Khalsa Panchayat

Mohinder Singh Josh, Shiromani Sikh Samaj

Dr. Mann Singh Nirankari, Nirankari Darbar, Rawalpindi Wale

Kirpal Singh, Gurdwara Parbandh Sudhar Jatha, Bathinda, Punjab

nder Singh Ghagga, an international preacher

Dr. Sukhjit Kaur, a human rights activist

Dr. Tarlochan Singh, former president of the Sikh Missionary College, Ludhiana, Punjab

Ghorandhar please read below about lies resorted to By Missionaries of Ludhiana

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2006/20061023/punjab1.htm

Amritsar, October 22

Taking strong and suo-moto exception to the alleged blasphemous writings and statements by Prof Inder Singh Ghagha, an alumnus of Sikh Missionary College, Ludhiana, Akal Takht today directed the Sikh sangat to stop him forthwith from carrying out his religious activities all over the world.

In a directive issued on the letter head of Akal Takht, the Jathedar also took similar action against Prof Ghagha's associates, including Mr Gurcharan Singh Jeeonwala, Mr Manjit Singh Sahota, Mr Karamjit Singh Gill, Mr Amandeep Singh Kang, Mr Gurmit Singh , Mr Parminder Singh Parmar, Mr Jasbir Singh Mangat and their associates.

The development is considered unprecedented since Prof Ghagga and his associates were not given an opportunity to clarify their respective positions.

Finding the remarks too obnoxious, the Akal Takhat this time directed the Sikhs not to allow Prof Ghagha and his associates to speak from any gurdwara or panthak stage.

Earlier, one Bhag Singh of Ambala was also excommunicated on the same grounds for writing against 'benati choupai' and 'ardas'. However, he had presented himself before the Akal Takht and sought forgiveness. Later, Mr Gurbax Singh Kala Afghana was excommunicated from the Sikh panth for the same reasons.

Of late, many petitions had been pouring in against Prof Ghagha, He and his group had been indulging in blasphemous writings against the Sikh ideology and 'gurbani', they allege.

Interestingly, Ghagha claims himself to be associated with missionary colleges but the Sikh Missionary College, Ludhiana, declared that he was not associated with the institute. The same statement had come from Gurmat Gian Missionary College where Ghagha was teaching. Mr Gurcharanjit Singh Lamba, editor of the community journal Sant Sipahi, criticsed these statements saying that merely saying that he was not associated with them had no meaning unless these institutions condemned the writings of Ghagha and Kala Afghana.

Prof Ghagha who had been an ardent supporter of cop-turned- Sikh scholar Gurbakhsh Singh Kala Afghana, is presently in Canada. His speeches there triggered physical clashes between rival groups and the atmosphere was getting surcharged.

Ghagha started with casting aspersions against the 'bani' of Guru Gobind Singh and then came down to passing adverse remarks on the 'bani' and history of all the gurus.

The Akal Takhat directive has also given a stern direction to Sikhs not to cooperate in any of the seminars and conventions organised by Ghagha and his associates.

second reference

Ghorandhar ji

Koor nikhute nanaka orak sach rahi.A lie has no legs.Raed below from another source .

http://www.sikhtimes.com/news_102306b.html

Inder Singh Ghagga, a former professor of the Sikh Missionary College, Ludhiana, appears to have courted controversy with the publication of his recent book Sada Berra Eon Garkia (Misrepresentations in Sikhism), Patiala: Fateh Publications, 2005.

veer ji

There lies the deception of these missioanries.They write something but act different.Pannu has given hard refrence that they did the project of manjit singh.If you have some refrence prove it wrong.

Now coming to nyour last para.Who is this missionary college to decide on Dasam granth?In what capacity they are deciding on Dasam Granth which is a sikh scripture?Have they any right on this.Absolutely none.It is prerogative of akal takhat.By doing their manmat they are disobeying the edict of akal takhat.See below

ਤੀ ਅਨਸਰ (ਸ੍ਰੀ ਅਕਾਲ ਤਖਤ ਸਾਹਿਬ)

Now you are caught in your own lies.

Veer ji

That video establishes a land mark case against the missionaries (Manjit singh and Kewal singh) and also Missionary college Ludhiana.Is it not proof enough that they are not sparing SGGS ji even.That is waht that video says.

You agree that Ghagha is a missionary.Now Ghagha was principal of sikh missionary college Ludhiana for ten years.Missionary colleges are getting grant from SGPC and to get that they are lying while giving a statement to Tribune.

Do sikhs lie.Sikhs were famous and resepcted for not lying.Here we have missionary colleges that are lying.Everybody know the roel of these missionaries that they played when so called sarbat khalsa was hosted by patit sikhs at Mohali.

Was not Mohinder Josh a head of missionaries?Come on be truthful.When Kala afghana viisted Sacramento Gian singh Kahlon a missionary used to be his host.

<<<<<When did SIKH MISSIONARY say that naam simran is Gorakh Dhand? Unless you can prove this - I see no point in wasting my time and trying to disprove you. Unlike you, I can give first hand proof that the missionaries believe that naam simran is an action Sikhs should strive to do - and is among the highest actions ever. But I'm not going to waste my time and looking through the literature until you prove that they've said that it is. Just because a former student of Sikh Misionary says something doesn’t mean he represents Sikh Missionary. Also ghorandhar made a post about this issue in another thread where he writes that the Sikh Missionary actually CONDEMNS the likes of Ghagga, and have refused to publish his articles. No I'm not going to waste my time finding reference - until you prove that they are supporting them.>>>>>

Response

First of all let me know if Inder Ghagha is a missionary or not?He was not only student of missionary college Ludhiana but also its principal for 10 years.How can you say that he was a student only?He said that.

<<<<<Unless you can prove this statement, I find no reason to go further and dissecting your arguments- which if you make a simple search on Sikhsangat - has already been done in the posts of ghorandhar veer ji.>>>>

Response

Missionaries are bed fellows of kala afghana sect.How can you deny that.Everybody knows that.

<<<<<Again, you can continue making statements, but for me they're just a bunch of ramble unless you prove anything to me. I gave you a perfect example- Rulda Singh was a student of DDT - and now a prominent leader of RSS - by you flawed logic - surely DamdamiTaksal must be RSS related. Although I'm not making a comment trying to prove that, there is substantial evidence (read the series on Panthic.org- where they basically have RECORDINGS and PHOTOS to substantiate what they are saying. You have not give an iota of evidence to support your falto statements, and thus I see no point in trying to disprove thme using Sikh Missionary litareture. Don't get me wrong - I can go up the stairs and pick up a book published by the missionaries any time and prov eyou wrong - but I'm not going to do that. No matter how egocentrically this sounds - it's true - My time is worth much more than being wasted on trying to prove something to someone who's made a bunch of statements without backing them up.>>>>>

Response

I am not pro Damdami Taksal.If Rulda changed he should be condemned in the strongest possible language.Once he joins an anti sikh organizaton he is no more a sikh.

But in case of missionaries their signatures are always there with thses anti sikh organizations with anti sikh statements on Sikh marg.That includes notorious principals of Anandpur sahib college,Surinder singh and Bedi of ludhian ocllege.

Tell me if Mohinder josh,Inder Ghagha and jagtar jachak are missionaries or not?

<<<Also, I've noticed you haven't contributed to the topic of this thread in any way, and have only sprouted hate towards other Sikhs who you don't agree with. I strongly suggest you continue working on your own jeevan and thus learn to respect others. Isn’t that what Guru Tegh Bahadur Sahib Ji did – gave his live for the right – for a concept he himself didn’t agree with. If you don’t agree – fine – but at least stop spurring hatred. You have in no way contributed to the topic of the existence of Bhai Bala, in this thread, and have instead diverted the topic of the thread completely.>>>

Response

The point here is that these missionaries are not stopping anywhere as they have a mischieviuos mind.they have not seen higher academic institutuions.they think by doing a missiory course they have become philosophers,articulators of gurbani,histroians simultaneously.That is the raeson they are not sparing any event of sikh hsitory.

<<<<<As mentioned, I won't waste my time trying to disprove your baseless statements. Also, I suggest you make a search on this forum of ghorandhar veer ji's post on these issues.

Stop wasting your own time as well as my time on making baseless statements - without proving them– start by proving them – If you can provide substance about it - make sure your next post BEGINS with substantial evidence as to where/when/in what context the missionary collage (no, not what one or two students/individuals who's works has been refused to be published by the missionary - but an official stance- or somewhere, where the missionary collage has funded/supported something questionable or) calls naam simran gorakh dhanda – and if you can not do so – I rest my case >>>>>

Response

see this video about role of sikh missionary college Ludhiana

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1870980952462040097

Bhai Bala janam sakhi is not of minas.We have a scholar here in uSA who has studied scriptures of Minas.Bhai Bala ajam sakhi is not from them.They have bhai meharban's janam sakhi.