jodhaa

Waheguru...Bhai Nirmal Singh did a lot for the Sikh Youth of the UK and his memory will live in all our hearts forever...Waheguru

There's no point of touching these little things we know the answers anyway like ramaleh, maya etc.

So by doing such rituals related strongly to the hindu dharam does it get ones Naam going?

Satguru Jee says the following

srb Drm mih sRyst Drmu ]

sarab dharam mehi sraesatt dharam |

Of all religions, the best religion

hir ko nwmu jip inrml krmu ]

har ko naam jap niramal karam |

is to chant the Name of the Lord and maintain pure conduct.

sgl ik®Aw mih aUqm ikirAw ]

sagal kiraaa mehi ootham kiriaa |

Of all religious rituals, the most sublime ritual

swDsMig durmiq mlu ihirAw ]

saadhasang dhuramath mal hiriaa |

is to erase the filth of the dirty mind in the Company of the Holy.

sgl audm mih audmu Blw ]

sagal oudham mehi oudham bhalaa |

Of all efforts, the best effort

hir kw nwmu jphu jIA sdw ]

har kaa naam japahu jeea sadhaa |

is to chant the Name of the Lord in the heart, forever.

sgl bwnI mih AMimRq bwnI ]

sagal baanee mehi anmrith baanee |

Of all speech, the most ambrosial speech

hir ko jsu suin rsn bKwnI ]

har ko jas sun rasan bakhaanee |

is to hear the Lord's Praise and chant it with the tongue.

sgl Qwn qy Ehu aUqm Qwnu ]

sagal thaan thae ouhu ootham thaan |

Of all places, the most sublime place,

nwnk ijh Git vsY hir nwmu ]8]3]

naanak jih ghatt vasai har naam |8|3|

O Nanak, is that heart in which the Name of the Lord abides.

Is this devotional worship?

If by doing these rituals one things it is devotional then that is not the right thinking

Satguru Jee says

suix mn mMin vswie qUM Awpy Awie imlY myry BweI ]

sun man mann vasaae thoon aapae aae milai maerae bhaaee |

Listen, O mortal: enshrine His Name within your mind; He shall come to meet with you, O my Sibling of Destiny.

Anidnu scI Bgiq kir scY icqu lweI ]1]

anadhin sachee bhagath kar sachai chith laaee |1|

Night and day, center your consciousness on true devotional worship of the True Lord. ||1||

eyko nwmu iDAwie qUM suKu pwvih myry BweI ]

eaeko naam dhiaae thoon sukh paavehi maerae bhaaee |

Meditate on the One Naam, and you shall find peace, O my Siblings of Destiny.

haumY dUjw dUir kir vfI vifAweI ]1] rhwau ]

houmai dhoojaa dhoor kar vaddee vaddiaaee |1| rehaao |

Eradicate egotism and duality, and your glory shall be glorious. ||1||Pause||

iesu BgqI no suir nr muin jn locdy ivxu siqgur pweI n jwie ]

eis bhagathee no sur nar mun jan lochadhae vin sathigur paaee n jaae |

The angels, humans and silent sages long for this devotional worship, but without the True Guru, it cannot be attained.

pMifq pVdy joiqkI iqn bUJ n pwie ]2]

panddith parradhae jothikee thin boojh n paae |2|

The Pandits, the religious scholars, and the astrologers read their books, but they do not understand. ||2||

AwpY QY sBu riKEnu ikCu khxu n jweI ]

aapai thai sabh rakhioun kish kehan n jaaee |

He Himself keeps all in His Hand; nothing else can be said.

Awpy dyie su pweIAY guir bUJ buJweI ]3]

aapae dhaee s paaeeai gur boojh bujhaaee |3|

Whatever He gives, is received. The Guru has imparted this understanding to me. ||3||

jIA jMq siB iqs dy sBnw kw soeI ]

jeea janth sabh this dhae sabhanaa kaa soee |

All beings and creatures are His; He belongs to all.

mMdw iks no AwKIAY jy dUjw hoeI ]4]

mandhaa kis no aakheeai jae dhoojaa hoee |4|

So who can we call bad, since there is no other? ||4||

ieko hukmu vrqdw eykw isir kwrw ]

eiko hukam varathadhaa eaekaa sir kaaraa |

The Command of the One Lord is pervading throughout; duty to the One Lord is upon the heads of all.

Awip BvwlI idqIAnu AMqir loBu ivkwrw ]5]

aap bhavaalee dhitheean anthar lobh vikaaraa |5|

He Himself has led them astray, and placed greed and corruption within their hearts. ||5||

iek Awpy gurmuiK kIiqAnu bUJin vIcwrw ]

eik aapae guramukh keethian boojhan veechaaraa |

He has sanctified those few Gurmukhs who understand Him, and reflect upon Him.

Bgiq BI Enw no bKsIAnu AMqir BMfwrw ]6]

bhagath bhee ounaa no bakhaseean anthar bhanddaaraa |6|

He grants devotional worship to them, and within them is the treasure. ||6||

igAwnIAw no sBu scu hY scu soJI hoeI ]

giaaneeaa no sabh sach hai sach sojhee hoee |

The spiritual teachers know nothing but the Truth; they obtain true understanding.

Eie Bulwey iksY dy n Buln@I scu jwxin soeI ]7]

oue bhulaaeae kisai dhae n bhulanaee sach jaanan soee |7|

They are led astray by Him, but they do not go astray, because they know the True Lord. ||7||

Gr mih pMc vrqdy pMcy vIcwrI ]

ghar mehi panch varathadhae panchae veechaaree |

Within the homes of their bodies, the five passions are pervading, but here, the five are well-behaved.

nwnk ibnu siqgur vis n Awvn@I nwim haumY mwrI ]8]5]27]

naanak bin sathigur vas n aavanaee naam houmai maaree |8|5|27|

O Nanak, without the True Guru, they are not overcome; through the Naam, the ego is conquered. ||8||5||27||

Controlling the 5 Evils can only be doe via Naam Japna, Reading/Listening To Banee, Sangat, Rehat

This is my last post

VJKKVJKF

Fateh Ji

s50 - Let me break this down in kiddy language for you

Red cloth - We dont use red cloth if you want red cloth go to a mandir (I AND ANYONE I ASKED DID NOT SEE RED CLOTH)

Water - We cant live without

Coconut - Just like any other food offering people make at the gurdwara, any food can be blessed by guru sahib not just degh

Incense - Is YE OLD perfume, give snice fragrance in darbar sahib

Jyot - Is a light just like a light bulb

Basket of flour - You should have taken it home and made roti (I AND ANYONE I ASKED DID NOT SEE BASKET OF FLOUR)

Love and respect s50 thanks for wasting my time

Akaaaaaaal Hi Akaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaal

thank you for your sensible replies,

please state to me and other people who might confused as to wear gurbanee states these practices relating to Naam.

Are you trying to tell me we should not offer food, money, flowers and our time to our guru sahib and gurdwaras????

Ok you tell me, where does it say we should wrap our gutke or Guru Sahib using a ramala???? it is all to do with saradaa and pyar

As fr hindu rituals, they do fereh around the fire we do fereh around Guru Sahib should we also stop doing that????

At the time of Akhand Paath Sahib & Keertan/Katha Programs the following things are seen to be placed by Guru Sahib or around the Darbar:

1) Water

2) Red cloth

3) Coconut

4) Incense (dhoop)

5) Jot

6) Basket of flour

Where did this tradition come from? The truth is that while we have become Sikhs, the ways and traditions of the Brahmins have followed us.

One Sikh told us that at one place there was recitation of Ramayan going on and he saw that just like at an Akhand Paath Sahib, there was a water in a pot, topped with a coconut covered in red cloth. The pot of water was placed in a utensil filled with flour. There was also a jot and incense burning.

We asked the Pandit why all these things were placed during the time for Hindu Puja. The Pandit told us that the meaning of these things is that while doing Ramayan Paath, we are also worshiping 6 gods (devtas) together:

1) Unn Devta (god of grain)-worshipped by placing flour

2) Basantar Devta (god of fire) –worshipped by the jot

3) Devi (the Goddess)-worshipped with the red cloth

4) Ganesha-worshipped with the coconut

5) Pavan Devta (god of air)-worshipped with the dhoop (incense)

6) Rama-worshipped with the recitation of the Ramayana

By doing this, the Pandit said, 6 gods are worshipped all at once.

Now, let us reflect; we worshippers of Akaal who is without form and found everywhere but at the same time we are stuck in this manmat.

Dashmesh jee has said, "jub eh gahai bipran kee reet. Mai(n) naa(n) karo(n) in kee parteet". Meaning, "when they (the Khalsa) go the way of the Brahmins, I will no longer put my trust in them"

When reading Bani, we should not have any sham rituals. After preparing Karah Parshad and doing Ardaas to Akaal Purakh, we should begin to fire at our mind with arrows of Bani so it can no longer run anywhere.

Yes, if there is an amrit sinchaar to be held, then water in a pot should be kept with the purpose that when the Amrit is prepared, the water can then be used.

Sangat Jee please have a deep think about these rituals they have no link to nothing just a waste of energy.

Fateh Ji

I was at the program and it was a real nice event which showed the upmost respect to the living guru of the sikhs "shabad guru", yes the guru was showered with gifts of love and affection not just by the organisers!!!

s50 as for your points here is my opinion from what i saw.....

1) Water - ??? there was some rose water which is added to the flowers which are then showered on to Guru Ji and the shastars when singh arti arta gurbani, its is used to fragrance the flowers and keep them fresh

2) Red cloth - I didnt see any red cloth, i saw plenty of blue cloth banas lol

3) Coconut - As per Nihang maryada bhog is done on coconuts as we do with degh kara prasad, prasad can be any offering of food i.e. fruits, nuts etc, ive seen people offer bottles of ribena and orange juice it is just blessed food

4) Incense (dhoop) - It is the YE OLD perfume and a sign of respect

5) Jot - It is to put focus on Guru Ji and Guru Ji only and a sign of respect

6) Basket of flour - ??? I Didnt see this basket of flour, anyways sangat always give offerings of flour, daals etc to gurdwaras, nothing ritualistic its used for langar

s50 - As for reading hindu scriptures that ios the biggest and most stupid thing i have heard in a very long time, the singhs organising the program would most defo slap up anybody they saw doing that so iam very sure this did not happen

big respects to leicester sangat...akaaaal

Vikramjit,

You are obviously mistaken,

The prefixes 'Akali Nihang Baba' were used long before Niddar Singh,

was Akali Phoola Singh ji Hindu-influenced?

In Gurbilas Pathshiah Dasvin Guru Gobind Singh refers to himself as a Nihang.

In the early 1900's Akali Nihang Baba Mitt Singh ji had his name written down as such and he had nothing to do with Hinduism other then saving them from Muslims.

akaal hi akaal

What is all this talk about surjit singh bains snatism its not even accepted by buddha dal or by jathedar baba joginder singh he has not respect or time for that crap, guys supporting this view please get me a recording of jathedar baba joginder singh supporting these ideologies and ill re-think my views.

Gurfateh Ji

Sangat Ji dont forget that the program is in honour of Sant Baba Harbans Singh Ji Dameliwales Barsi....

A TRUE SAINT AND SOLDIERS DARBAR......

Akaaal

I also believe this maryada "jhatka of narials" was performed at Baba Takhur Singhs Barsi last year? I respect this maryada.

Akaaal

THIS IS A PROGRAM WE ALL NEED TO GO TO....Akaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaal

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

If you can't comment on the issues of 84 please don't comment on the issues of 78 either. It's funny how you suggest, "we just need to look into it a little better and not listen to hear say" after you explicitly state that, "i have heard singhs from the AKJ state baba jarnail singh ji Bindrawale didnt back the case of the shaheeds of 1978".

It is ludicrous to say that Mahapursh Sant Gyani Baba Jarnail Singh Ji Khalsa Bhindranwale the jathedhar of Guru Sahib's Taksal did not support the beautiful shaheeds of 1978 who gave their lives for Satguru Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj when it was they who made the call.

Dhan Dhan Bhai Fauja Singh s/o Surain Singh, Amritsar

Dhan Dhan Bhai Avtar Singh s/o Bhagwan Singh Kuda Kurala Hoshiarpur

Dhan Dhan Bhai Harbhajan Singh s/o Jagat Singh Bhattian, Gurdaspur

Dhan Dhan Bhai Piara Singh s/o Kishan Singh, Bhungrani, Hoshiarpur

Dhan Dhan Bhai Raghbir Singh s/o Nawab Singh, Bhagupur, Amritsar

Dhan Dhan Bhai Gurcharan Singh s/o Daleep Singh, New Model Town, Ludhiana

Dhan Dhan Bhai Gurdial Singh s/o Sohan Singh, Mode, Amritsar

Dhan Dhan Bhai Amrik Singh s/o Kundan Singh, Khujala, Amritsar

Dhan Dhan Bhai Dharambir Singh s/o Lal Singh, Ajeet Nagar, Amritsar

Dhan Dhan Bhai Kewal Singh s/o Amar Singh, Prem Garh, Hoshiarpur

Dhan Dhan Bhai Hari Singh s/o Gurcharan Singh, Kot Ralia Ram, Amritsar

Dhan Dhan Bhai Ranbir Singh Fauji s/o Kala Singh, Thraj, Faridkot

Dhan Dhan Baba Darshan Singh s/o Achhar Singh Ji, Mehtha, Amritsar

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

Veera/Penji!!!

Sorry if my typing has upset you as i didnt mean what you think...i was stating the point that as people were slandering baba santa singh and being wrong was the same as people slandering baba jarnail singh and being wrong....i.e. stating they did not do this or do that etc.....the stuff i heard from akj sangat was what i heard not what i believe.....

Every shaheed should be remembered and never forgotton

ANYWAY BACK TO THE TOPIC REGARDING TRUE PANJVA TAKHAT BUDDHA DAL JATEHDAR....Baba Joginder Singh Ji

Akaal hi Akaaaal

Valli,

If stabbing the Panth in the back during its darkest period of persecution is classed as 'seva' then you are right, Santa Singh has to be the biggest sewak of the Panth in the modern period! Although he might at times have to take joint honours with Badal and Longowal.

Sorry to labour the point and no doubt people such as you who I suppose were in nappies in 1984 think that we should forget about what happened just 25 years ago. When the history of the Panth is written dispassionately and by people without an axe to grind and without the agendas, I am sure that Santa Singh will be rightly classed with Lal Singh and Tej Singh.

It never fails to amaze me how much rewriting of history has taken place in the last few years. No doubt in another decade Badal will become Sher-e-Punjab and Longowal will be referred to in the same breath as Shaheeds like Bhai Mani Singh and Bhai Taru Singh! No wonder the Panth is in such a bad way, if gadars can be transformed into the biggest sewaks of the Panth overnight just because one internet warrior says so!

Fateh Sangat Ji

If i can just make one point on the above, Baba Santa Singh has done alot of seva for the panth especially passing on gian regarding Sri Sarbloh Granth and as being the head of Buddha Dal for quite some time. As for the issue after 1984 i cannot comment on as we will never really know why the panth had diffenerent vichars at that time, i have heard singhs from the AKJ state baba jarnail singh ji Bindrawale didnt back the case of the shaheeds of 1978, do we slander baba jarnail singh the same as we are baba santa singh? we all know that baba jarnail singh and baba santa singh have done alot for teh panth we just need to look into it a little better and not listen to hear say.

Gurfateh Ji

dsnt seem they follow the Bhai Daya Singh Jee Samparda, and follow bit of everyone. Reference made to pictures and other bits on the site.

As per Sant Gurbachan Singh Jee, the below is equired for the samparda

Amrit From Panj Pyareh

5 Kakkar Rehit

and White clothes.

Fateh

Gurfateh Ji

Thats is not entirely true as i have been told that nirmala dont have to wear shastar i.e. Kirpan, in-order for them to obtain kachi, benaras or sanskriti vidiya as a brahmin scohlar would not teach the singhs as he saw them as kshatriya. Also the reason why they wore ghatti bana in the nirmala colours - Peach colour.

Akaal

Gurfateh Ji everybody

Few facts about the program

• Sangat easily totalled to approx 400
  
• Sangat attended from all walks of sikhi life, jatha and sampradas in mass
  
• Sangat helped with the program as if it was their own program and worked together as a team
  
• The langar ran out THREE times, you can imagine the amount of sangat that attended and did pangat
  
• The program was organised with the maryada and blessings of Dal Panth "The knights of God"
  
• Art Arta was done sanding up as if the sangat was doing a direct behnti to Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji, incense and jyot was lit to focus all light and attention on Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and Sri Dasam Granth Sahib Ji
  
• Every single person in the sangat stood for arti arta and some were handed flower petals, those who didnt want to be involved in the arti arta could have left but no one left the darbar........? What mystical, magical spritual feeling kept these people focused until the end....?
  

The Akhand Kirtan Jatha once stood for something extreamly important and that was pure Kirtan seva, this has now changed into some sort of seperate sikh movement and organised leadership which controls their followers? or shall i say members?

As for the immature so called kids representing the AKJ i think they need to grow up and stop teaching and start learning, you are not teachers you are students just like everyone of us.

These children moaning on the internet are *deleted*

Akaal

The term is not really sikh it should be gur-sikh i.e. the true gurus sikh, learner or student. Some one who follows the actual teachings of the guru is a sikh or gur-sikh some one who does not you decide???

You can get a free copy from the Sri Dasmesh Darbar if you attend if not just ask some one who is to get you a copy.

Akaaaaaaaal

Gurfateh Ji

Please read:

http://www.santsipahi.org/patshahi10/quest.html

and

http://www.sridasamgranth.com/

For real factual answers, also please attend the Sri Dasmesh Darbar - 3 Jan 09

http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?showtopic=41687

Akaaaaaaal

Gurfateh Ji

Very nice story...one point Hrai Singh Nalwa never led the Khalsa Army he led the mxied army of Raja Ranjeet Singh, the Khalsa army was led by Akali Baba Phoola Singh

Gurfateh Ji

Im not sure but i think they were planning to move the gurdwara sahib to another building on the other side of wolverhampton town, but then again not much sangat goes there, main sangat was from the university.

Here is the email address: ranjit@rkgrouplondon.com

send in your complaints

Waheguru Waheguru Waheguru Waheguru Waheguru

Dhan Dhan Baba Mitt Singh Ji Mahan Sant of the Khalsa Panth

Fateh Ji

From the texture and colour of the Dand, it looks like it came from a mature Boar or its generally an old shingar

i think its not a soor dand its barha singha ( deer horn )

Fateh Ji

I dont think it is deer horn as it is not perfect in shape i.e. like a soor dand no signs of polishing to shape it. I may be wrong. Ive owned 3 different shingars from differents ages i prefer the new small shindars nicer and smaller to wear

caste is an indian/hindu system, shame they have to mention filth like that