Pyara

@ sypyouthshow please note the the banning of Kam Singh has nothing to do with ofcom fines but was the result of the tent fight and destroyed that live show.

I have full faith in Sikh Channel that they will always speak freely.

What tent fight are you referring to above?

If your reference above is to the "international conference" thing then as far as I remember, it was Kuldip S Cheuru of Leicester who stood up and started getting hostile and charged up the mood of the live show after Kam Singh mentioned Dadusahib wale around 1.5 hours into the defensive discussions which took place. This is when the cameras switched off.

But there was no physical fight as such. Just some rowdy opinions. I feel you are sensationalising this by calling it a fight!

The live "international conference" show was doomed from the beginning and it was evident very early on that the mood was extremely volatile even before the show went live. I don't think you can pin this one on Kam Singh. It was not a good idea to have such an open forum and Sikh Channel Management, all attending Jathebhandis and attending individuals need to collectively take ownership of that little tamasha. Once again, it is unfair to scapegoat Kam Singh.

I haven't got Sky but I did use to watch Sikh Channel on-line, especially the youth show on Sunday night. Was Kam Singh the dark-bearded young gentleman with the Midlands accent?

Yes. He was that young handsome gentleman who sat in the middle and had the punchlines "paji's just hit the nail on the head!" and "faaantastic". I think the show is being truly missed!

I personally believe Kam Singh and Sikh Channel did an invaluable sewa bringing some hot topics to the agenda during the few months the Youth show was on air. The show put forward strong young Sikh opinions on the airwaves, something we had never experienced before. They may have been some emotionally charged and some naive opinions, but they were honest. The “banning” and character assassination of Kam Singh is not the decent thing to do and I hope that Davinder Bal/Sikh Channel snap out of this. At one point Kam Singh was considered a cherished face of Sikh Channel, bringing in viewers to the Sikh Channel on Sunday evenings. The show ran for several months and there was ample opportunity for SC Management to address any alleged issues of impartial presenting, if that was truly an issue. Why was this not addressed in a prudent manner back then?? SC seemed to milk the popularity of the show at the time and now scapegoat Kam Singh.

However, what is really evident in these Ofcom reports is it’s still difficult for Sikhs to be loud and audible about issues around 1984 and even the Sikh Channel is vulnerable to restrictions and censorship from outside sources. A valuable lesson to be learned is that the parchaar needs to be sustainable and long term. This means projecting issues of modern Sikh massacres and genocide more tactfully so that the voices of truth cannot be so easily threatened by devious allegations of “unbalanced” portrayals.

I hope this does not prohibit Sikh Channel producing high quality current affair shows aimed at the 2^nd/3^rd Generation English speaking Sikhs. This is something missing since the demise of the SYP Youth show.

http://www.sikhsanga...-alcohol-abuse/

Some more references to Alcohol abuse in the Sikh Community.

http://www.bmj.com/c...543/682.extract

The British Medical Journal reports:

"34% of Irish men drink above the weekly recommended limit of 21 units of alcohol, compared with 29% of the general Irish population and 27% of the general British population. A similar problem exists in south Asian (Sikh) male migrants to the UK, where problem drinking is higher than in the Sikh population in South Asia and similar to that of the UK general population."

http://www.emphasisn...khCommunity.pdf

"Numerous studies have shown that Sikh men are more likely to drink alcohol, consume alcohol more frequently and in greater amounts than any other South Asian group."

http://alcalc.oxford...28/1/1.abstract

"Consumption is higher in Sikhs than in Hindus or Muslims, and heavy spirit drinking appears to be especially common among Sikh men. Alcohol-related psychiatric admission rates for South Asians have risen since 1971, and appear to be especially high in Sikh men. The high alcohol-related morbidity rates in this group are a priority for further research and efforts at prevention."

http://onlinelibrary...55958258.d01t01

"Sikhs were most likely to be regular drinkers followed by whites and Hindus."

"Among regular drinkers Sikhs had higher average Alcohol Problem Scale Scores than did white men or Hindus."

http://www.alcoholle...aire_Turner.pdf

"Sikh girls drinking frequently increased in the 1990s"

"Sikh men, have high prevalence of alcohol-related liver damage and liver cirrhosis"

Well done. Keep the pressure up with the UK government.

I notice the Indian Congress Propaganda machine have started to release the odd unsubstantiated news articles on the "revival of Sikh militancy".

http://www.deccanchr...ancy-punjab-110

I'm sure we'll start seeing a few more in the coming days to divert the attention.

Anti D day comments on Sangat TV were geared towards the potential backlash from the mainstream White/British community's perception of Dastaar Day and Sikhs "protesting" outside parliment.

Looks like we all forgot how the bigots' in India still see the Dastaar!

Whats the point in this when they fail to take action against the Delhi prabandakhs for what has been happening at the hall at Gurdwara Rakabganj Sahib in Delhi?

The current Akal Takht Jathedar was provided with video and photograhic proof of the meat, smoking etc at this hall more more than a year ago. They were going to summon Sarna but nothing was heard about this ever again.

I fully understand why most of us take this stance, but in reality we’re not going to do ourselves any favours by boycotting the authority of Akal Takht Sahib. We recognize a need for authority in earthly matters but our problem is we need to make the same judgment regarding our dharamic/panthic issues. Gursikhs realised this very early on after Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj left authority to the Panth and exercised the authority through the Sarbat Khalsa using Akal Takht Sahib as the base.

Without promoting a unified Sikh seat of authroity we weaken our level of autonomous control but on the other hand we need to ensure we have the truthful and ethical influence within our seat of authority. Fully agree as we can’t deny it’s being tampered with, so whilst most of us probably agree with what you say, on the other hand we cannot be seen not to be escalating dharmic/panthic masle to Akal Takht Sahib.

But without promoting a unified maryada and protocol we show no regulation and that’s the loophole the culprits who do the beadbi current keep taking advantage of. The renegade UK prabhandaks that allow meat sharab on Gurdwara premises feel no accountability and perhaps we can attempt to rock their conscience (or personal integrity) by confidently being able to escalate issues to Akal Takht Sahib. We can only wait and see what the secretariat of Akal Takht Sahib then do!

Isnt it true as well that in the same meeting Akal Takth put a "STOP" on satkar committees direct actions instead they told the committee to report the matters to nearest takth sahib or SGPC instead of going and taking on the matters directly.

Why this happened and how come this part is missing in the above article ?

The article focusses on the issues raised by Satkaar Campaign UK regarding the UK issues. The UK issues were probably only a small part of the discussions at Akal Takht Sahib yesterday, so I guess it is inappropriate to comment on other discussions from the Punj Singh Sahibaan regarding Satkaar Committee in Punjab or any other Gursikh sevadaars .

Certainly, regarding issues of beadbi in the UK, the Jathedar has made it clear that Akal Takht will intervene when issues are escalated to them. I suppose the aim in the UK would be to make all attempts to resolve issues of beadbi locally first with the help of the local leadership such Sikh Council UK and other local Panthic Organisations.

F A I T H !

I feel that we have become massive cynics, sceptics and almost athiest in our outlook on life. This dip has effected our competance as a warrior race. If you have already mentally made up your mind that you have been beaten than there's no chance of fighting any physical battle, let alone winning it!

I think the modern Sikh has developed a habit at talking themselves out of doing sewa..

so my question is that

have we started a negative reaction which might result in turban removal at the UK airports as well?

One can say we started a negative reaction the moment our Grandparents came into the Uk 50 years ago!

In reality, was it really only about airport screening or was it about raising awareness that we are a united integrated community with strong cultural values living in the UK. We can't keep on living in quatantine communities hoping we're not picked up on the bigot's radar?

Both Jagtar Singh and Balvinder Kaur from SCUK were on Sikh Channel and both were grateful for the awareness that the event has raised and hopefully has made their jobs slightly easier!

Fateh Ji

Contrary to the mixed message we were being given by others over the last week.

Well done to SCUK for being clear cut and not letting others speak on their behalf on yesterday's show.

Keep putting the consistent faces forward on TV so we can confidently see who is taking our voices forward and distinguish SCUK reps from the disgruntled prabhandak discussion panelists.

On a personal level, I believe D Day created a new empowering feeling for thousands of Sikhs who have otherwise never involved themselves in standing up for our social/community rights before. It was a great day and Sikhs left believing in themselves for a change. There were no stigmas attached. Those who didn't attend missed out! Those who did attend feel like their part of a new bigger picture.

Jagtar Singh, with all due respect, the big lessons are that the Jathebhandis need to build their own clout in the Sikh community. For the benefit of the bigger picture I hope the SFUK or SCUK go out there and build some solid bridges with the Sikh community and not sit back still naively expecting to command from the Ivory Towers.

Apologies to Paneer Monster for bringing up the political card. You're 100% right. It was a symbolic event and will be something we won't forget despite the gulit trips from the same jathebhandis.

Lets look forward!

The dastaar issue is close to resolution within the UK. There is currently a trial going on at 17 UK airports. My MP, Jon Ashworth MP is actually visiting East Midlands airport next week to see how things are going. After the trial, the newly tested policies will be adopted within the UK. So yes, this is a giant leap, and the issue is close to resolution. Good work Sikh Council!

We've probably got more effective communication on this thread about what's been happening in the background regarding the Dasaar issue than anywhere else in the last 6 months. We need to make sure there are no "chinese walls" in our community which gives rise to the misunderstandings that have materialised over the last few days.

And if SCUK are having an AGM on 1 October 2011, a suggestion that all naujwaan now attend and represent themselves at this AGM. It's time for all the passion/energy/skills to be utilised and voices to be heard. Humble benti to SCUK, please advertise this AGM and make it open to the whole sangat. All misconceptions need to be mitigated and bridges have to be established... We can't carry on with these ambiguous opinions of each other.

There are no splits in the Panth, just a healthy debate going on......

So many people with so many views who don’t actually do jack shizzle themselves on here!

If you think that there are weaknesses in the SFUK or SCUK (ie sangat communication) then contact them, join them and fill that gap. The doors are wide open!

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, below is what the so called incompetent, power hungry elders have achieved in the last 6 months alone. Think you can do better!

March 22^nd 2011 - Lobby in the British parliament in regards to Respect for the Sikh Turban at UK airports (and across Europe).

April 26^th 2011 – 30 minute adjournment debate took place in Westminster. Dozens of MP’s attended the Respect For Sikh Turban debate and 15 managed to make a contribution in the 30 minute session.

1^st June 2011 – Minister of transport Rt. Hon. Theresa Villiers MP sent a 3 page letter to the ministers in the other 26 EU states. In the letter the Minister stated: ‘On 30 November 2010 the UK secured EU agreement for a trial that avoids physical touching of the turban by hand….”

15^th June 2011 – All Party Parliamentary Group for UK Sikhs (APPGS) meets the Transport Minister Rt. Hon. Theresa Villiers. The Minister has confirmed that the trial will be taking place in 17 out of the 20 largest UK airports. Fabian Hamilton MP who is the chair of APPGS will be speaking to the executives within the remaining 3 airports for a justification as to why they wont be entering the trial.

12^th July 2011 – Sikh representatives meet the Transport Mnister – Sikhs want the UK trials concluded as soon as possible and the results shared with the European Commission to allow other EU member states to adopt the same procedures as soon as possible. The Minister discussed how pressure could be exerted on EU states.

18^th September 2011 – Fabian Hamilton the chair of the APPGS has confirmed that a delegation of MP’s including himself and Sikh representatives will be travelling to Brussels to meet the EU Commissioner. Representatives from Italy and Greece will also be attending the meeting as there are specific problems in these countries.

The fallacy is that most naujwan are good for nothing hot headed males. Without blowing trumpets, you may not realise the involvement many supposed “hot headed” branded naujwaan have already had over the last 10 years with the likes of Gill, Joga, Chehuru, Dabinderjit, Deol, Sanghera, Rai, Manmohan in the past and why they were eventually siphoned out. Don't think that 2nd Generation Sikhs have not attempted or contributed to a lot of the past campaigns but ask why they eventually lose faith, walk out due to the dirty state of our pendu politics and back biting. Sure, there have been a number of milestones (which we now appreciate and have now seen several times on sikhsangat.com, thanks Aman0001) but have they been babysteps or leaps.

SFUK/SCUK genuinely need to openly recruit, encourage and empower the 2^nd/3^rd Generation Sikhs not just make statements of open doors which are mysteriously hard to push open. Organisations with foresight which have resource, recruitment and retention problems attempt to do something about it, not just sit back and struggle to keep afloat. Give the sangat the confidence that there is competent sincere leadership and direction so that they join. Break the great Sikh myth that our current leaders are useless.

Nah mate..I'd rather watch Eastenders! The people of Albert Square make more sense!

Pyara - agree that Sunday will have a galvanizing effect, but it could have been WAY better if the Jathebandiaan were on board. Remember it is these same currently being maligned Jathebandiaan and Sevadaars that organize the successful '84 rally (with the support of ALL media channels and papers).

My good friend - These Jathebhandis and Sevadaars needed to be vocal back in April (or at least a few months ago) when the publicity started on Sikh Channel and built up a decent campaign to convince the Sikh community otherwise. It shouldn't have got so embarrassingly far! Almost feels like now we're all waiting to see our own Sikhs fall flat on their faces. There will be auntiya, kids, elders coming on Sunday and all Sangat TV and these Jathebhandi's are doing is making sangat feel foolish for taking the time out whilst embarrassing themselves on TV every night. Deposits have been paid for coaches, some by individuals themselves not committees. The Jathebhandis and Sevadaars should have acted much sooner if their concerns were genuine or was it just left to the last minute to belittle Bal/Sikh Channel in a pathetic popularity war!!

Who needs Zee TV Drama Serials when we have the drama of our own prabhandaks on Sangat TV and Sikh Channel belittling each other!

I wonder if people realise that the date of the protest is a poor choice for a start as noone will be in parliament at that time lol. I wonder if Bal at Sikh Channel thought about that before he coined his dramatic D-Day.

Can someone remind me why exactly should the Sikh Council be dictated to by a TV channel to take the lead on an event which was not organised by them and is doomed to fail for so many reasons?

As mentioned above, the position statement was released by the Council because they were under pressure to declare their position, and for no other reason. Actually the Council has shown alot of maturity and has tried to be impartial. Unfortunately the same cannot be said for the TV channels and some of the leaders of constituent jathebandian.

Was it really impartiality or was it the case that SCUK sat on the fence for so long they got splinters!

What annoys me is the illusive bureaucracy and politics that our prabhandaks construct around issues which feels like an attempt to bewilder the sangat. Yesterday Shingara Singh Mann from Paris called the Sikh Channel to give a clearer picture of the situation in France which he claimed was contrary to the rosy picture Joga Singh mentions on Sangat TV. Another Sikh whose son works in East Midlands airport called in the Sikh Channel about the situation there with removing turbans during searches. Compelled with local issues regarding the Sikh Identity suffered by the normal Sikh on the street, why are the jathebhandis/councils so hell bent on demonising an event which can unite, uplift and give Sikhs a feeling of involvement!

Last night I was at our local Gurdwara and we were asked to arrange a thaan of dastaar material so that we could tie dastaars on kids who will be attending the D day on Sunday. A Bibi asked my Singhni if she will tie a Dastar on her for Sunday. What’s wrong with this?? Tell me please..?? So it’s a Sunday and maybe there will be only a few MPs there, but thousands of normal Sikhs are willing to show unity for the Sikh Identity. If anything it brings our community together and perhaps inspires someone to wear a Dastaar for life! This has gone beyond the Sikh Channel/D Bal issue now...I’m sorry for my simple outlook on all of this.

We need to have them high level meetings (and I am so glad to now know these are taking place) but also give the opportunity for the Sikh on the street to feel involved too, we're not as naive as Sangat TV make us believe and are equal emotional stakeholders in Panthic masle! Perhaps our jathebhandi’s feel undermined by all of this…

equally however the federation have these past few weeks actively requested including on this forum for sevadaars particualrly youth to join them in their new structure to assist with communication amongst other things - did those criticising them for not communicting the federation's message and activities put themselves forward to assist?

We can go round in circles on this. If the common Sikh knows what the jathebhandi are doing or are capable of doing, then perhaps more Sikhs would step up to getting actively involved in our socio-political issue. If no jathebahndi effectively communicates what is going on, then unfortunatly most of us will not have the avasta to read each others minds. We will be in the dark on most of our issues and have the perception that the jathebhandis' aren't really doing anything.

This is where Sikh Channel have the upper hand. The common Sikh sees the Sikh Channel as the first point of reference for Sikh issues, not SFUK or SCUK. It's a self created Frankinstien through neglect and weak sangat interaction from our own Jathebhandis, they are too far removed from the common Sikh. The Jathebhandi's need to accelerate their credibilty as a national voice and have to stop using the "formulation" phase as an excuse.

At a national Sikh level and at this late stage, I see Sikh Channel's leverage greater than SCUK and SFUK with common Sikh. This means that any PR from SCUK will carry little weight compared to what Sikh Channel can influence.

Don't get me wrong, I sincerely believe we do need a national Sikh Council. But it's through interaction that SCUK are more likley to gain credibilty and the D Day could be seen as that community gelling exercise. The direct relationship between the Sikh and the Sikh Council should exist and not hindered by middle tier of prabhandaks or so easily influenced by the Sikh Channel/Sangat TV. If there's anything that's come out of this fiasco, I believe it's that!

There is a lot of hard work going on to reslove the dastaar issue and we are making great progress. Going forward, any awareness days or demonstrations should be strategically organised with agreement from the Sikh Council & Sikh Federation.

I don' think anyone’s denying that. These timelines you have posted are useful, shame that up until now this hasn’t really been effectively communicated to the sangat and almost comes at a time when we are likely to be dubious about their accuracy in terms of progress.

Firstly, I am sorry I have to say this, but let's stop kidding ourselves into believing there's a "strategy" because if there was a strategy we wouldn't be pulling each others’ pyjamay last minute on TV.

Secondly, surly there are positive synergies to be gained from a large scale gathering expressing our concerns at a grassroots level via D Day which inturn can complement the meetings that SCUK or SFUK have had with officials. SFUK have been successful pioneers in using demos at grassroots to amplify Sikh campaigns in the past.

Strategies can be emergent and can evolve from new situations, they don’t always need to be formulated in cumbersome prabhandak consultations.

Surly the lateness of this statement diminishes it’s proposed value or credibility! Again, why was this not communicated several months ago by SCUK? Timing is questionable. Whilst I can appreciate SCUK’s comments, the timing of the release gives the impression that it’s an influenced slanted statement.

Sikh Council UK statement on D-day

SCUK...Why Why Why leave it so late to come out with such a dramatic statement! How does SCUK expect to distribute this communication to all 300 Uk Gurdwaras before Sunday?

Sorry SCUK this is not personal to the sewadars, but this stand should have been communicated several months ago! Not last minute...

My fellow singhs instead of wasting our effort on how wrong sangat tv is now, let's focus on the next few days to promote and take as many people with us to this event, we can sort out sangat tv later, believe me I will make sure that sangat tv pays in way of apologising to the sangat in the mess and division and confusion it has caused.

Agree with you 100%. After seeing the unsophisticated politics on Sangat TV last night, I feel more adament to ensure I personally promote the Dastar Day on Sunday. I'm not a fan of Bal and I'm not denying that Sikh Channel are aiming to get some brownie points out of this but I also fail to see the "danger" of the D Day that these self-manufactured , self-appointed, self-promoting sofa leaders were trying to convince us of yesterday. It felt desperate and embarrasing.

The UK Sangat are not stupid and can make up their own minds! We face identity issues everyday in our schools and workplaces from some of our kids being forced to remove their karas during school activities to difficulties wearing our kirpan in some workplaces. These are having to dealt with at a local level more than often NOT at a "national" jathebhandi/council level, contrary to what these leaders make the sangat believe on TV. If the Jathebhandi's really had any proactive clout with the UK govt. surely the sangat wouldn't have to tell them the issues bottom up. Perhaps it's time for the sangat to shake these delusional leaders up and represent their own voice.

See you all at D Day!

http://www.prnewswir...lease?id=333611

Sikhs Take to the Streets to Demand Dignity and Respect at European Airports

BIRMINGHAM, England, September 20, 2011 /PRNewswire/ --

Thousands of Sikhs will today take part in a simultaneous demonstration in four European capitals to protest against what they say is a growing trend of intimidation and disrespect of their faith at European airports.

The UK demonstration will commence in Parliament Square in London at midday, 25^th September and will be attended by community leaders and Sikhs from all over the country. Similar gatherings are being held in Brussels, Rome and Madrid.

In recent months, there have been increasing problems at Italian airports for Sikhs travelling from the UK being asked in very impolite and often belligerent terms to remove their turbans, after having successfully passed through security scanners.

Abinash Singh and his wife Balraj from Hayes recently appeared on the Sikh Channel telling of their degrading experience at an Italian airport. The officials were not willing to take part in any dialogue but forced the removal of their turbans. Abinash said "after the contribution of the Sikhs in the world wars, after the positive contribution made to European society by Sikhs, this treatment is deeply upsetting"

Sikhs argue there is no justified security reason for removal of turbans which have successfully passed through scanners and feel victimised as a result of the ongoing 9/11 backlash against minorities.

The campaign to promote fair treatment for Sikhs is being co-ordinated by the Sikh Channel, a cable TV station based in Birmingham and London which broadcasts to an international audience.

A Famous Sikh said, "Reports from across Europe indicate that our Sikh brothers are being forced to remove their turbans at airport security. This is a totally unacceptable infringement of our faith, it's also totally unnecessary as a turban is no different than any other item of clothing in relation to a metal detector or x-ray machine."

Campaigners are calling on national governments in Europe to investigate the treatment of Sikhs at airports and make representations to their European partners where Sikhs are found to have been abused.

Sikh celebrities will be joined by the Labour MP for Wolverhampton Pat McFadden in addressing the demonstration.

Note to editors: The demonstration will include army personnel and the world's oldest marathon runner Fauja Singh

an emergency meeting between the sikh channel and gurdwara parbandaks, jathebandees and councils took place yesterday evening in an attempt to resolve the issue going forward and get the sikh channel out of the mess it has put itself and the sikh community in. bal even signed an agreement for the sikh council to draw up terms of reference going forward on the advice of dr sadhu singh but then promptly threw down the paper he had himself signed, went off on a rant about how the sikh channel will not be stopped from doing what it wants and walked away - he can now expect to see the collective response of the sikh community in the coming days watch sangat tv this evening for further details

Please explain to the common Sikh who doesn't subscribe to the who's who in "Jathebahndis" manual why meetings are being called against the D day when over the last few years the "jathebhandis" can be accused of being pretty non-existant on local panthic issues.

Reading the comments above, to be honest, aren't the "jathebhandi" coming across as the bully's? I'm not saying that Sikh Channel/Bal aren't getting any mileage out of promoting this D Day, but Sangat TV and the elders/"Jathebhandis" need to take a look at how they are being portraying themselves on screen and behind the scenes.