DalbirSingh

You can take it as a personal attack, and calling anyone who is against hindu rituals in sikhi as mr hindu allergy is getting old mate.

You have suddenly changed your tune by agreeing with Johnny101. All I said was gurbani never salutes hindu god shiva and you, lacking respect for guru sahib, tried to show Guru Gobind Singh ji did with the following comment:

"So can you explain why Guru Gobind Singh is insulting us by your view in the dasam granth with the following bani:

Deh siva bar mohe eh-hey subh karman te kabhu na taro.

Na daro arr seo jab jaye laro nischey kar apni jeet karo..."

Why do you think Johnny had to explain this basic concept to you? because it was obvious that you falsely believe gurbani salutes Shiva.

So I stand by what I said, you have openly declared your views after hundreds of posts, which do not fit in with the basic principles of sikhi. Taking this as a personal attack is a joke, no insult or mick taking was aimed at you. Personal attacks happen frequently here so try comparing them to what I said.

MLOL again at making me out to have a hindu allergy because I refuse to believe that gurbani/sikhi condones worshiping any hindu deities!

I never said anything about worshipping a hindu deity

I can admit I phrased the salute incorrectly perhaps it would have been better if I said the name shiva was used for god in gurbani you can play these context games if you want.

As for personal attacks happening all the time here take that up with the admins it's for them to enforce, they way they enforce will change how popular their site becomes.

You do have a hindu allergy with all those gursant videos go and speak to gursant you will realise he hates anything hindu, the hindi language, the sikh religion which may use linguistic terms which are shared like dharma or tilak. Gursant is an evangelical christian wanabe muslim sikh.

good point .....

taran0 ji, I humbly submit onto you that your facts are incorrect. Maybe all the sikhs then did not take khande pahul but they sure were all amritdhari (charan pahul shakiya see). To be a sikh of Guru Nanak one has to shak amrit whether in the form charan pahul or khande pahul (given by punj pyare). Unless someone is deluded I think it is very obvious that only khande bata da amrit is available know as Guru Sahib is no longer in human form, so charan pahul is not available now.

Back to the topic. This topic seems abit silly because anyone of any religion, race, creed, amritdhari or non amritdhari can ask about sikhi and also discuss sikhi. If it were a case of a non amritdhari lecturing amritdharis on the values and lifestyle of sikhi then one could object to that, but anyone and everyone has the right to discuss and ask questions sikhi.

were punjabi hindu gursewaks disowned as sikhs? Such as the guy who gave hot milk to the chotee shabizaday?

DalbirSingh ji, thank you for your sensible reply. Firstly finding faults in Gursant Singh is not an excuse to ignore the great violations done by 3ho, so thank you for not doing that.

About Gursant Singh, please provide evidence (a youtube clip of him sayin these things, extract of his book). I don't think a 99cents book is a way to seriously raise money, more like pay for the expenses of publishing and printing. If what you say about him is true then I will have no problem condeming those views, as we should condemn any anti gurmat views no matter who it is and what group they belong to.

Well I can assure you those were his views until he blocked me in a conversation and I don't have time to do lame screenshots for character assassinations on the internet things like only make a person famous. I don't mind agreeing with him that 3ho is teaching tantra which is manmat. The allegations of yogi bhajan committing adultery is quite common so it's possible but it doesn't bother me since he was a human not a guru and he wouldn't be the first famous sikh to be a hypocrite. 3ho worshipping him with photos shouldn't be respected as for the hodge podge 3hoers doing arti and stuff it all comes down to talking with love not condemning them with youtube clips. Or calling people rss agents sell outs to the indian government, throwing insults, then welcoming all the pendus onboard who don't know what's going on to join in the character bashing of another sikh so as to demonise them.

Shiva here does not mean the hindus god shiva. It means Vaheguru just as Guru Jee has used Gopal, Ram, Gobind and other words for Vaheguru in Bani.

I agree with you Jonny101 but gursant and mr hindu allergy don't like anything hindu at all since after all it's associating partners with allah swt or jebus

After almost 600 posts on sikhsangat you have finally openly declared your false views on sikhi. I wonder who else shares these views here.

How can you or anyone else honestly believe, as a sikh, that Guru Gobind Singh ji here is saluting the hindu god shiva?

Well thank you for after 30 posts personally attacking me.

Shiva is just a term in use in bani and similarly people who do yoga don't do it infront of a murti idol

Learn to get past the hindu allergy otherwise you won't grasp gurbani properly

Jap Sahib

However please do not slander Sri Jap ji Sahib. Nowhere does gurbani salute the hindu god shiva. Gursant Singh was telling us that yogi bhajan was Hindu at heart:

So can you explain why Guru Gobind Singh is insulting us by your view in the dasam granth with the following bani:

Deh siva bar mohe eh-hey subh karman te kabhu na taro.

Na daro arr seo jab jaye laro nischey kar apni jeet karo.

Arr sikh ho apne he mann ko, eh laalach hou gun tau ucharo.

Jab aav ki audh nidan bane att he rann me tabh joojh maro.

Translation: O Lord grant me the boon, that I may never deviate from doing a good deed.

That I shall not fear when I go into combat. And with determination I will be victorious.

That I may teach myself this greed alone, to learn only Thy praises.

And when the last days of my life come, I may die in the might of the battlefield.||231||

-- Guru Gobind Singh

Gursant is an evangelical christian interpreting sikhi from a biblical viewpoint he has lost it, he believes sikh history is corrupted when it mentions tilak and the existence of shiva in gurbani is done by the rss. He thinks all gurdwaras should remove all guru paintings, the gilding on harmandir sahib of icons like the guru should be removed. It could be very possible he is a christian infiltrating sikhs to turn them on each other. He thinks basically all sikhs are lost apart from him and we should give him our hard earned money by buying his book.

This evangelical approach does a great job in pushing people away from christianity I think we don't need that behaviour in sikhi. He has some points about the tantra and yogi bhajans sexualised sikhi but bhajan was preaching his own kundalani stuff. So what alot of our own punjabi sikhs have hodge podge ideas.

5.44 of the 2nd video he talks about yoga having salutation to shiva and to shakti if you read jap sahib it has it as well and he is calling it bad and damaging.

there is no rehat, but the tradition has always been to shout jaikara, or say "wah". or some words along those lines.

clapping in gurdwaras is kinda weird.

well the happy clappy christians do it so do the kawali guys it might be a nice way to get the little kids to interact, but it might wake up some people who are pretending to be doing simran but are actually sleeping

these naamdharis are dogs........they should be excommunicated ...............

they aren't even communicated in the first place to be excommunicated anyway

who would be next after them bhaji? those who deny only certain parts of Gurbani?

you mean akj? the raagmala doubters? to be attacked by taksalis... naa this kookay beef sounds like a fight over who gets to be the next guru had uday died the other dude would have taken over, getting 1st class aeroplane tickets, people worshipping him all over the globe, all the kookay bowing to him, respect, his words being treated like god's. Too bad udhay couldn't predict someone would wack an axe on his nose.

In future, please make sure to post the entire article, not just the URL.

chillll no worries

Anyone think it was an upna sikh proper sggs believer who went in to get the fake guru? Or maybe a musalman doing jihad on kuffar?

we do not date women like that , its against our rehat. treat all women as our sister/mother and daughter .

if you cannot its simply your fault. stay true to guru dont modify things as per your needs .

mashallah brother you are really keeping the ulma of allah alive.

Bro people don't just marry the first person they see these days, if you do that you could marry someone you can't get along with because of differences like you can't stand your wifey cutting you off

some of the not translated pieces on that site have been done on www.sikhitothemax.com and www.searchgurbani.com

the tuk you gave comes under Ath Pakh-yaan Charitar Likh-yatay

Cold water is actually amazing in all weathers - one gotcha is cold Baths are way better than cold showers

On the contrary veerji you will see your immunity go up greatly. Try it on yourself.

Arthritis is an autoimmune disease (the immune system attacks the body) if someone has it and their immunity was to go up, then the arthritis will get even worse for them.

I don't live in India and I'm not interested in this kundalani yoga hardships or others which were taught against by Guru Nanak Dev ji, we don't need to inflict hardship on ourselves for our bhagati. Bottom line is just take a good shower, we have indoor plumbing back then people just had lakes to submerge themselves in, they didn't have a choice of temperature.

JALANDHAR: Namdhari sect head ThakurUday Singh was attacked and injured at a congregation at a gurdwara in Britain's Leicester city on Sunday morning. He was discharged from the hospital in the afternoon after treatment.

The assailant, whose identity was not revealed by the police, was nabbed by the followers present at the congregation and handed over to the cops. Police are yet to ascertain the motive behind the attack.

Namdhari Darbar president and former Rajya Sabha member H S Hanspal, who was apprised of the attack by the community leaders in UK, has written to Prime Minister Manmohan Singh urging him to direct the ministry of external affairs to take up the issue with the UK government and ensure proper security to Uday Singh during his stay in England.

Sulakhan Singh Jandu, president of Namdhari Sangat in UK, said the sect head was sitting among the people when he was attacked by a Sikh who was not known to be part of the Namdhari community. "This individual came towards him with a blanket wrapped around him, then took out an axe and attacked Satguruji," he said.

It is learnt that the assailant tried to hit Uday Singh on his head but failed. Sources said the assailant came in typical Namdhari attire - white kurta-pyjama with round turban.

Jandu and other sect leaders said the religious leader was injured on his forehead and arm. He was taken to the Royal Infirmary in Leicester. A few other members from the community also received injuries while trying to save the sect head.

Hanspal said it is very important to unveil the conspiracy and those who are behind it.

Controversy over selection

Thakur Uday Singh was installed as Namdhari sect head in December 2012 after the death of Satguru Jagjit Singh. However, his selection had led to a vertical division in the community as his elder brother Thakur Dalip Singh had challenged the appointment and a considerable part of the community did not accept him as sect head. Before he was made the sect head, Uday Singh was known as an entrepreneur who founded Namdhari Seeds and other establishments. There were clashes between the two sides in the past also. In February, four persons were injured in a clash between the two sides in Amritsar. Late Satguru Jagjit Singh's wife Mata Chand Kaur had sided with Uday Singh and his brother had alleged that she was under pressure.

Big following

Namdharis are an industrious and affluent community. Headquartered at Bhaini Sahib, near Ludhiana, the sect claims to have considerable following in Punjab, Haryana, Delhi and abroad. Satguru Jagjit Singh was an accomplished classical music exponent and patronized several big artistes, including Rajan-Sajan Mishra.

Namdhari sect head Baba Ram Singh launched the first non-cooperation movement in the 19th century against the British. He was imprisoned and sent to Rangoon (Burma) and died there.

See this documentary about human sacrifices they mention the beheading of mayans at 9.20 that even after the head is cut off they are alive and watch their killer, so the guy ranks physical death to be the death of the brain

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=sSb0jyvtLAI&t=561

Got any hunting ones?

Since you are constructing something to answer Abu, Abu has posted a hunting one his website under that section.

Here is an image from niddar's book of the 10th guru

u think they will sue me for using these pictures?

screw them and their lawsuits it depends in what form you use them, if you put it on the net then no, if you try and gain profit (not prophet) from it by selling books then they could argue you leached off their hard work. I reckon they stole photos off other sources aswell.

I'm not too sure what you mean ??

Are you saying is it wrong to admire and feel more for Guru Nanakji than Guru Harkrishan ji for example ??

I think he wants to separate Allah from his rasool, so Allah's true nabi rasool is Guru Nanak and for him he has confusion between the Gurus relation with Allah. Guru ji taught in janamsakhis about Allah not needing intercession or intermediation of any person that was born and died. And in bani allah reveals in guru granth sahib that let those tongues be burnt which say Allah is jooni (born/within the cycle of death + birth). In janamsakhis guru ji is recognised as a mortal so he is truly allah's rasool.

It Seems allah came to him in a dream and he isn't sure if it was Allah's true nabi rasool Guru Nanak or Allah himself?

Did you ask Satguru Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji Maharaj on this matter on what is proper conduct. Satguru surely speaks on this topic. I can very easily find you the shabad, but then that would not be fun. And we need to have fun while learning. So I suggest you go onto www.sikhitothemax.com and do a search. And since we are all about Sarbat da Bhalla, then post that shabad here for rest of the members to take in Satguru's divine message. :biggrin2:

I asked for the reference and you asked the question back at me if you know it's in gurbani then in the spirit of sarbat da pala please share it?

try this http://sikhcybermuseum.com/Gallery/OldSikhPaintings/pages/112.htm

Isnt the Muslims doing the same exact thing by dating Sikh girls and spreading their message?So we should follow the same tactics as them?

If you want to spread the message of Sikhi there are other ways than dating which disrespects guru ji...Why not holding community events every week or something???

To the op:You are doing wrong by looking like a Sikh and not acting like a sikh by dating.

ਹੁਕਮ ਦੇਖਿ ਕਾਰ ਨਹੀਂ ਰਾਖੈ । ਗੋਲਕ ਗੋਪ ਮਿਥਿਆ ਮੁਖ ਭਾਖੈ Those who recognise my commands, but does not follow them and takes money from the Gurus golak for their own false needs,

ਕਾਰ ਭੇਟ ਸੁਖ ਮੰਨਤ ਚੁਰਾਵੈ । ਐਸਾ ਸਿਖ ਗੁਰੂ ਨਹਿ ਭਾਵੈ । ੯ । The offerings have been presented in hopes of happiness. Those who take the the offerings are not Sikhs. (Those who steal from the Gurus golaks are not Sikhs).

You realize the gurus hukam but you still do not obey...You still have to date which against the gurus wishes...

The only reason why you want to date is for sexual reasons...It's only for kaam even if you dont know it...We are never to take another women and have sexual relations with them..

ਬਿਨ ਬਿਵਾਹੀ ਨ ਸੇਜ ਰਮ ਤਿਸ ਸਦ ਧਰਮ ਸਹਾਇ | Without marriage, he does not take a women to bed. To her he shall always be faithful.

We are not supposed to date.....Those are my fathers words and it clearly says if you don't obey him you are not a a Sikh...Please listen to them and stop dating and follow the gurus path.

Well I was being abit sarcastic about dating for preaching, there is a time and place for everything. But dating doesn't equal sex, people date with the intention to get to know someone who they want to marry.

It's been 3 years now has this project finished yet?

Unfortunately I don't have access to that where I live.

It's on amazon

So now expect there to be an article on tisarpanth dealing with hunting. By the way are there any purataan pictures of the Khalsa hunting?

I think there are some in the masters presence niddars book