japmans

i'm gonna take a wild stab at this, and assume that your friend isn't bhai jeevan singh, or near his spirituality level... so therefore, i'd say that if bhai jeevan singh is saying it like that, it's gotta be aright...

welll, if we can base it on the actions of gurmukhs, at the 2002 toronto AKJ samagam, whenever bhai jeevan singh ji did ardaas, he always said jo bolaayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy and while he was saying bolay, he was doing naam jap too, so like

"JO BOOLLLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY VAHEGURUVAHEGURVAHEGURUVAHEGURUVAHEGURUVAHEGURUVAHEGURUVAHEGURU SONIHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLLLLLLL"

guys best jatha is GKDJ

see the worst part is that, even though you're jkoking, that's what started this whole mess in the first place

Sat Sri Akal:

You know what the funniest thing out of all of this is?

Ask those who are called "creators" of these Jathas. Their histories state that each called himself/herself a Sikh and nothing else. What was Baba Deep Singh, head of the Damdami Taksal and head of the Nihangs? What was Bhai Sahib Bhai Randhir Singh? What was Sant Attar Singh Sahib Ji? What was Sant Jarnail Singh Sahib?

Now ask their followers. Oh, I am a Nanaksari, I am a AKJ, I am a Nihang, I am a Nirmala, I am an Udasi, I am a Taksali? Did you forget that your mentors themselves were humbled that someone would address them as a Sikh? What did Guru Sahib create and belong to? Our ideal (as lofty and impossible as it seems to be) is to follow the Guru Sahib's example as far as possible. To that end, Guru Gobind Singh Ji himself belonged to the Khalsa, subjected himself to the rule of the Panj Pyare and said I am but a Sikh (displayed by his taking orders from the Panj Pyare).

Anyone think that calling themselves something besides a Sikh is better? If Guru Sahib himself was content being a Sikh, why do others strive to be something more? Know something better than Guru Sahib?

To be a Sikh is a high occupation. Selling your head in front of the Panj Pyare, waking and sleeping literally to the thought of the Almighty. Throwing your worldly life (INCLUDING family) at the mere whim of the Panth, fighting against thousands even

if by yourself, being like dust in front of the world while being a lion in the face of oppression. THAT is being a Sikh.

No Jatha can claim Divine Creation by the Almighty except the Khalsa. Guru Sahib wrote "Khalsa Mero Roop Hai Khaas", not AKJ, DDT, or any other group. Want to know why people go around calling themselves AKJ or DDT? It is because they do not understand the true depth of the word Sikh. Ask Sant Attar Singh, who stated that he himself could barely call himself a Sikh. If such an enlightened individual has trouble calling himself a Sikh of Guru Nanak Sahib, then how can others who have not even kneeled in front of the Panj Pyare call themselves Sikhs (applies to the manmukh writing this article)?

An apology to those Sikhs who follow the path of the Guru Sahib. To them,

THIS is right!! veerji, you've said the right thing... i don't know honestly, how this became a "let's protect AKJ, DDT or any other jatha" argument....this is supposed to be about how we can use all these jathay to the advantage of Sikhi and Khalsa...

i think that was an awesome post... as far as KS and N30...your arguements honestly feel more personally motivated than anything else... please leave that out...

As the mods have stated, we aren't supposed to be bashing jathas, SO STOP!!!!

FACE THE FACTS THAT ALL THE JATHAY DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT FROM EVERYONE ELSE... NOT EVERYTHING IS ENTIRELY THE SAME.

That being said, how can we use this fact to shape sikhi of the future? let's face it, sadly, this world is becoming a more and more muslim world... conversions are happening daily everywhere... people are starting to use muslim terms such as "say wallahi" (for example when maki

ng a promise, someone else will say "say wallahi" to promise it"), just as people used to say, "sweaar to god!".... we're the youth and the future, and we've gotta step up and be tolerant and united with each other... so now, with all these jathas, there has to be some sort of method to keep Sikhi on track through the future...

we should all be sikh, not akj sikh, dodra sikh, ddt sikh... just sikh...but the actualy establishments of akj, dodra, ddt, and others, should be used to our advantage.. let's face it, once Akal Takht has approved the existence of a jatha, then that jatha should be used to positively influence the panth, whether you like it or not... and all of them truly are being positive, but there's the inter-jatha fighting... so now, we hafta move forward... we have to improve.... Forget Jatha Bashing...let's try to do some Jatha Loving.. has that occured to ANYONE???

bhul chuk maaf

oh for sure.. defeinitely this topic is only about those jathay/samparhday that have been approved by Shri Akal Takht Sahib.... nirankaris...naamdharis...they're not even mentioned once... we're only talking about akal takht approved jathay/sampardhay..

keep in mind guys, this isn't a "why does Jatha A not do anything, or why does Jatha B screw around with other people?" or anything... we're discussing jathas and their usefulness... don't make this into an AKJ bashing discussion.. we've done too good right now on actually having a discussion to make it turn into a huge fight keep up the discussion and omit the insults...

we've already established why people think jatha's are bad, so saying "oh, well akj is bad cuzz... or taksal is bad cuz..." that's USELESS... don't go there right now... everyone has their opinions on the bad.. that's half the reason those topics got banned, cuz everyone wanted to talk about the bad!

we're talking about the GOOD! let's get these points out... i really agree with N30 right now... please continute

Just to interrupt, is it safe to say:

Jathas are good as long as we don't make that become our identity? i.e i'm akj, i'm dodra, i'm taksali, i'm nanaksar and so forth...this is bad... but the actual institution of multiple jathas is a good way for parchar

does that make sense?

This is good..really good!!! we have a good discussion and no hating!! THIS is progress!

ok, so now that we've established open lines of communication, this is essentually what is being said:

pro jatha: different types of parchar are needed. Jathas are good, but it's true that some people have made them into bad things.

con jatha: jathas aren't bad, but they're not good, and thus we should all be one. different rehits and bickering over small things means bad!

so this is good... we've got good points made from different sides... we've got goooood points from Khalsa4ever....N30 singh made a huge point... Gabroo makes a good point about different "armies" i believe was his word... JSS veer and chamkila have made good points.

I personally am pro-jatha, but i'm pro-unity...i know this is wierd to hear, but i still think that the mix of jathas allows us to be so much more diverse, yet still so exclusive, i guess the word is. I mean, think about it this way...

Jatha number 1: practises such good sikhi acts.... but perhaps they're missing something that Jatha number 2 who is also practising good sikh acts and stuff, has, and vice versa... This isn't to start a debate about this, so don't use this as a launch point for controversy, and please feel free to refute me (BUT NOT BY MAKING IT CONTROVERSIAL..W.E'VE GOT SUCH A GOOD DISCUSSION GOING ON HERE, JUST POLITELY REFUTE ME PLEASE!!), but let's take for instance, the fact that our veers and bhains from the AKJ, essentially feel that keski is kakaar.. This is good. Who can argue against keski at all? but then we hav

e akal takht who has said that keski or kesh may be used... so is this bad now, for those who don't enforce keski as kakaar? i mean, we're still practising sikhi according with our distinct belief that kesh is kakaar (we = those who don't feel keski is kakaar), and thus, we're still being strong sikhs, and sikhs as Akal Takht wants us to be. i personally feel this should be recognized, that though there are these small views that are different, we can't be blind and say "my way's the highway, you're wrong!!!"... that's wrong...

my views are small, please feel free to refute me, just keep it clean, beg of you... i we have a good discussiong going here..

(this post was edited because i wrote jatha #1, but that emoticon thing showed up so i changed it to jatha number one and jatha numbr two)

was it bravekhalsa veerji? or singhkhalsa veerji? whoever refuted me, that's true, you're right. i guess that's a pretty bad theory ahahha

ok, that's good...

I think we've focussed madly on what is wrong with jathas.... does this mean that there can be nothing good about multiple jathas?

good point... that's an opinion we haven't seen before, actually.. that makes some sense.

but don't get me wrong when i make the following comparison, i'm not trying to badmouth sikhi in any way.

when bacteria form inside a body, they are to be fought with anti biotics. however, even bacteria slowly becomes immune to antibiotics, for it builds an immunity. It's the same with new species of insects and such. When they go through trouble, some of them can build an immunity, and thus the species as a whole becomes stronger. This is why the theory of evolution makes so much sense, because as the "apes" faced more and more troubles, they evolved and changed to become more immune to the problems in the world. hence the change from apes into humans. same goes with bacteria and new species.

now, don't you think that we could view these different jathas in the same way? i mean.... where one has a weakness, that jatha which is strong would still "carry the load", so to speak.. does this make sense, or am i just sounding like an <banned word filter activated> hahaha. i don't mean to change the original topic too much. but that's a thought that occured to me when i was inconversation with a gursikh the other day.

i had no intention to insult sikhi in any way, and i hope i haven't done so with my comparison. I'm looking forward to some other opinions though. Let's try to keep this toned down so we don't have to lock this thread

i LOVE that answer. fantastic. if only everyone was as broadminded as that gursikh....then we would have no problems getting ourselves united.

define united:

everyone practising sikhi in the exact same way?

or everyone being tolerant of each other, so long as they're practising sikhi positively?

is the answer at this point in time destroying all jathas? or actually learning and adapting to the fact that different jathay have different strong and weakpoints. doesn't this variety in essence make us stronger, so long as we can be happy with each other?

balwinderkaur bhanji... where do begin...

amazing reaction to the post of :manmat movies:...

Nanak Naam Jahaaj Hai would qualify as manmat, wouldn't it?

And if it doesn't, then is Schindler's List okay? cuz that's religious too... or are we gonna create a double standard?

i haven't seen this movie, but i'm intrigued from everyone's responses. warrior*princess, if you feel like a worse sikh by watching movies, then don't watch movies, but don't force your opinon unto those who don't feel like their sikhi is losing by watching a morally correct movie

i do however respect your opinion and practise, if it makes you feel like a better sikh, and more "on the path".

ANOTHER QUESTION HAHAH

was Guru Arjun Dev Ji's shaheedi gurpurab on the 3rd or the 5th, that year?

thank you soooo much veer!

What was the name of the general who led the attack on Shri Akal Takht? I need it for a high school essay. I'm not looking for KP Gill..i'm looking for another name.. but i'm drawing a blank... please help!

nothing??? no replies???

i'm soooooo lookin forward to this years version of EA NHL 2004... it's supposed to have like, true management features now.. sending players down to farm teams, and like, negotiating contracts, and not in that stupid "points" way.. like, with "real" money... i kinda envy the fact that you guys have the time to play all these games... damn canadian education system hahaha

i agree almost whole heartedly with n30 bhaji... see, the part that doesn't agree is the hate that i have for 1984...

however... i don't think it was right... i don't believe they did it, to this day... i still think it was all a masterpiece of a job by the GOI... and i know that's a stupid thing to say cuz we blame everything on them, but this is the ONE thing i truly believe about all of the air india nonsense... afterall, Nehru did say something like "for the good of the community, sacrifice a family" or some stupidness like that..

and since when has revenge been a part of gatka/shastarvidya/dharam yudh.. i mean, i'm not expert on gatka or the sikh martial arts, or even the sikh warrior spirit, but last i remember, revenge was never mentioned, or maybe even looked down upon. please correct me if i'm wrong..

let's face it, if this wasn't revenge, then how come Singhs don't do this more often, just randomly bomb air india planes?

and so, i don't think they did this... but lets' face it.. canadian court system is nowhere near the disquality of the indian court systems, so that comparison is kinda ridiculous.. on one hand we discredit the newspaper article for saying "accused terrorist" cuz the newspaper is owned by indians, yet we're willing to compare our canadian courts to india's... that's almost hypocrisy...

and in conclusion, everything is Guru's Hukam... EVERYTHING... so if these guys do get prosecuted in the end, you can only say that it's their own fault for picchlay augun... pichlay karma.. i know i'm gonna get roasted for saying that, but it's the truth, regardless. don't

mean to cause controversy, just telling all my views...

fateh

The Laptop

hey, amardeep singh, i wanna talk to you about a marriage proposal...me and the laptop!...where can i msg you hehee

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

that doesnt mean u would voluntarily go into a strip club, does it?

bhul chuk maf

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

are you comparing your very own bhainjees to strippers? what kinda analogy is that? i hope you realize the incredible disrespect that was....

did bikranjit SAY, go to a strip club? he said live normally and don't run away from it... in the same format, khalistani, why don't you name me one gurmukh who ran away from a fight? you can't....

bikramjit's just saying, live normally and understand how to fight and beat kaam..... not run away from it like a coward....

and i still can't believe you compared talking to bhanjis at keertans to going to a strip club... why don't you just come straight out and say that they're all prostitutes, cuz that's the impression i got from you

Admin Note: Japmans veerjee, I don't know where you got that impression from veer Khalistani's posts. Being an avid reader of this forum as you are, I think you should know more about Khalistani's character than claiming he compared our sisters to strippers or prostitutes. We know that wasn't Khalistani's intention. Khalistani's analogy may be extreme in

the eyes of some readers, if you believe it was extreme, you're entitled to your belief, but its hard to comprehend that you sincerely believe that Khalistani compared our sisters to prostitutes or strippers. His intention was obviously not to do so. Your claims are almost equal to a personal attack.

Any news on his condition???

no...he's a singh...

"all sikhs are singhs....all singhs are not sikhs"

he can call himself singh all he wants

khalistani veer: amazing... if you can keep yourself like that, then you know what, good on you! what a gursikh! but not everyone can, and as s1ngh said, kaam is there, you can't ignore it, only control it.. that's what we're told.. we're told to CONTROL it, not IGNORE it! on that not, PURELY AS A QUESTION, NOT AS AN EXCUSE does control mean allow in moderation??? or don't let it happen at all?? but my point for you veer, is that if you can doit like that, then amazing.. but otherwise, i think s1ngh hit it on the dumalla.... control is key, not ignoring... we'll end up ignoring the world and living sheltered lives if we do that.

BUT the word control suddenly raised an issue for me... does control mean: allow in moderation? or does it mean understand it's threre and don't let it happen?

World Politics

English

French

Calculus (no trig though, thankfully!!)

the greatest arguement that some come up with is that when you marry, you're to be finding one who can help you on the spiritual religious path to find God, to merge wit Vaheguru.

Yet, you're expected to have no feelings with this person that you're taking this HUGE step with... does this seem odd to anyone else? Shouldn't you be sharing SOMETHING with this person that you're going to be making the eternal leap with?

khalistani veerji, i respect your opinions, and i have no right to say tha your opinion is wrong, however i just don't agree with it. lets leave it at that.

mann kaum laye gurbaan veerji, lakh lakh vadaayeean, i hope your life is filled with love (for both your wife and for guruji), and may Guru ji bestow all of the tools required for you to move on in life on you!

gurfateh