xHarinder_singh

If non-amritdharis can japp naam, read gurbani, sooner or later, they will question " is it really necessary to chakk amrit" I can do everything that u amritdhari guys are doing.

Non-amritdharis reading gurbani was never an issue. The discussion was whether non-amrithdaris shud be encouraged to japp gurmantar or not. I said the above statement in that context that if they can japp gurmantar and read gurbani, they will start asking why chakk amrit ?

Gurmantar is not our personal property. It belongs to Satguru jee and one shud take gurmantar from Satguru jee before japping it. This is called Gur-deekshaa.

Dear Veer,

Have u read Sri Sarbloh Granth ?

Do u see similarities between Sri Sarbloh Granth and Sri Dasam Granth ?

<<

This is same Harindersingh who thinks sikhi doesn't need sants, and all sants are fakes.

The sikhi of people like these is very dry. Thoughts originating from influence of chors gets mistaken for guru-kirpa. So, they start questioning, analyzing anything and everything.

hahaha, when did i say that my sikhi is very harri-bharrii ? I am a neech insaan, I admit that. But even if I am neech, i do possess the right to express my opinion. In my opinion, we shud only be japping the gurmantar instead of "satnaam waheguru".

Regarding sants, I respect baba attar singh jee, baba nand singh jee.

Even today, i respect Baba Hari Singh randhawa vale, even bhai ranjit singh dhadrianvale who I feel has helped lots of people to keep kesh and brought them nearer to sikhi. My only problem is with people who say gurbani existed before 1469, try to mix sikhi with the kachi bani of vedas etc.

xHarinder Singh,

I think you presented your thoughts intelligently. You raised a point in a sensitive manner. Some disagreed respectfully. However, some started attacking you.

Keep your cool bro. I might be one of those who disagrees with you, you may be dead wrong...... but you have my ear over some others now, for no other reason than the relative courtesy with which you speak.

wow... thats great, hahahahahaha.

"satnaamwahguru" is neither gurmantar nor mool mantarr nor it is a gurbani tukk(sentence). Then why shud we be japping it ? Gurbani has so many names of Akal Purakh, so we can join any 2-3 names and tell the sangat to japp it.

"niranjanwaheguru" "mahakaalwaheguru" "madhowaheguru" "nirvairwaheguru" "allahwaheguru" "pyarawaheguru" etc etc etc..........

The gurmantar is a very sacred word. It is the TATT of sikhi. It contains the brahamgyan. Gurmantar is gur moorat. We shud value it, not mock it, spoil its form, make it cheap and khulllaaa.

This is same Harindersingh who thinks sikhi doesn't need sants, and all sants are fakes.

The sikhi of people like these is very dry. Thoughts originating from influence of chors gets mistaken for guru-kirpa. So, they start questioning, analyzing anything and everything.

hahaha, when did i say that my sikhi is very harri-bharrii ? I am a neech insaan, I admit that. But even if I am neech, i do possess the right to express my opinion. In my opinion, we shud only be japping the gurmantar instead of "satnaam waheguru".

Regarding sants, I respect baba attar singh jee, baba nand singh jee.

Even today, i respect Baba Hari Singh randhawa vale, even bhai ranjit singh dhadrianvale who I feel has helped lots of people to keep kesh and brought them nearer to sikhi. My only problem is with people who say gurbani existed before 1469, try to mix sikhi with the kachi bani of vedas etc.

ahahah sehaj u embarrassed urself lol ahahha

This gupt kaur Sehaj bhainn is a very gurmukh sister of mine. She is a very good admin too. God bless her!

All this removal and appointment of jathedars is a part of the dirty politics of punjab(india). These people are playing with Akal Takht. They have forgotten death and the punishment they have to go through.

Having, said that I feel Khalsa Raj is pretty near. These morally corrupt people's time is almost over.

The sikhs who are involved in helping the victims need really high praise. They are making a good name for the sikhs. At the same time, this problem of "sikhs" visiting hindu mandirs, muslim peers, etc needs to be addressed.

Regarding akal purakh punishing these "sikhs" for visiting naina devi, thats wrong.

Some time back, yatree traveling to Sri Hemkunt Sahib also died due to some accident.

Its all happening in the will of Akal Purakh, so we shud accept bhannaa and help anyone in need or suffering.

Huh?!!?

Mate get a hobby!!!

How on earth can you have a problem with people saying satnam vaheguru!?

Seriously i cant believe you have the time to sit there and think of such stupid yes stupid issues!!

You say what right do people have of combining words. Well is the word satnam an ordinary word? is vaheguru an ordinary word? I mean how stupid must you be to compare gurbani jaap to making up your own words!? bapu da lagda.

Strange how every gursikh i have ever met has encourged everyone to read gurbani whether amritdhari or not and if they havent yet taken amrit that they should. But then so called katar strict 'gur'mat following 'gursikhs' like you pop up and question why these people are allowed to read gurbani?!!

I take it you never said vaheguru, or mool mantar or did any gurbani before you took amrit?

What a shambles man that people have nothing better to do then this!!

Those who actually want to do vahguru's bhagti will do it, those who want to do pakhand and waste time on this will follow thier own irka filled path.

Mate get ur eyesight checked! Where did I say that non-amritdharis shud be stopped from reading Gurbani? Infact they shud be encouraged to read gurbani, do jorian de seva, jhoothe bartan manjan de seva etc. But when it comes to gurmantar, a person shud be encouraged to take gurmantar from Punj and then recite it. Thats all I was saying.

Regarding satnaam waheguru, so we can also change the sikh war cry to "sat sri satnam akaal" as satnam is no common word.

And man, u need to improve ur language instead of barking behind ur computer screen. People like u dont even hav the gutts to write their true name. If u have such a big problem with me, meet me personally and sort it out, Dont act as a looser behind ur computer screen.

i know many sikhs who are upaashaks of devi devtee and even do mata ka jagrata. Many sikh women hold 'karvachauth ka vart' but when asked to recite japji sahib they go blank. Many sikhs have gone back to where they came from, supertitious beliefs. Naina Devi and Vaishno devi are favourite of such sikhs. Mr. Badal had formed an agreement to construct a ropeway from Anandpur sahib to Naina Devi back in 1999. It got stalled but might be revived. This will give credence to Hindus to insist that Naina Devi was worshipped by Guru Gobind Singh.

If you have Indian channels in your country have a look at the 'news channels'. Half the time they are showing programmes promoting superstitious beliefs and crap things. You will be amazed at how low the Indian mind has sunk. Even educated Indians are going down the drain.

pyare veer, very good post. God bless u.

Yes, I lived in delhi for some years and the "sikhs" there have made a joke of sikhi. They wear monkey caps, kharrka talllis at mandirs, speak that disgraceful punjabi, lie so much in business that even hindu shop keepers lie less than these "sikhs".

Yes, man India is doomed.

Regarding educated Indians, what is education ? INdian educational system is just cramming and slogging like donkeys all ur life. This is the "gyan" they get.

Educated Indians feel inferior to speak their mother tongue or dress in their traditional dress. They cram lyrics of english songs. Thats what many of my ex-colege duded did ,hahahaha.

<< Sat = present through the 4 tenses (b4 past, past, present, future)

Naam = Akaal Purakh can be in form of Naam.

There's nothing wrong in saying Satnaam (sri) Waheguru or Nirbhau Waheguru or Nivair Waheguru.. its all in the sharda.

>>>

What right do we sikhs have to combine various words and tell sangat to japp them?

tomorrow some will say jappo "mahakaal waheguru" "akaal waheguru" , instead of saying "sat sri akal" , say " sat sri satnaam akal".

Tomorrow, I can go to gurdwara and tell people japooo " chakk de fattee waheguru ".

Even that makes sense.

Mantarr is not same as a any word or sound that we can choose or pick.

There is a gurbani tukk " gurdev mata gurdev pita ... "

tomorrow i can go to gurdwara and tell people bolo " guru mera bapuu aaa, guru meri mata hai " even that makes sense.

In short, we sikhs dont have the right to combine the words and make mantarr, jaaps, tukks etc.

What a total waste of time.

Satnam is another name of waheguru, just like Madho, Sai, Beethla, Raam. Satnam Waheguru is perfectly acceptable. Okay so it is not Gurmanat or Mool mantar, if some one says Satnam Waheguru it is a million times better then not saying it at all.

This is like a discussion between a group of people, one side said Mool mantra is up to "Nanak hosi bhi satch" the other group said it is up to "Gurparsad Jap", this debate continued for half an hour when a passer by asked how many of you actually sit down in the morning and do simran of mool mantra whether it be up to 'Gurparsad Jap' or 'Nanak hose bhi satch'...................... silence.

<<< Moreover, I feel we shud not make gurmantar so khullaa. Only a person who has TAKEN gurmantar from Guroo roop Punj shud be encouraged to chant the gurmantar. >>>>

So you would discourage a person who is sejdhari to stop chanting Waheguru ??????? My God ! We should be encouraging all to do as much simran as possible so that they start following the true path, and here we are going to start stopping people to naam jap................. nice one!

This is not my personal opinion, I have been told many gursikhs(with jeevan) that one shud first take gurmantar from Punj Pyare and then japp it. If u dont have something, how can u japp it. We shud encourage people to chakk amrit and take gurmantar from Guroo-roop Punj.If non-amritdharis can japp naam, read gurbani, sooner or later, they will question " is it really necessary to chakk amrit" I can do everything that u amritdhari guys are doing.

Anyways, these days it feels that anyone who tries to talk about strict gurmat, is called taliban, kattarr, intolerant, nindakkk, hankari, etc.....

-

Man u missed a life time oppurtunity. Snake is considered to be a stamina food and an important diet for army.

U could have eaten a snake with chatniii and salad, yameee yameee.

pyare vee _lost_

Having a break off from a relation and that too a serious relation where u intended to get married can be very very very tough mentally. Its something that will remain in ur head 24 hours. Its a serious pain. I can understand what u are going through.

Many people suffer from serious depression or even commit suicide in such situations.

but u are lucky that can take the sharan of house of Guru Nanak Dev Jee.

I have had friends in the past who really got serious after girls, and after the girl went, they were like dead and completely broken.

Now what u need to do is the following:

1. DONT STAY ALONE. If u stay alone, ur mind will keep on thinking about what happened.

2. Dont tell ur problem to everybody. People cant understand what u are going through.

3. Try to remain in Gurdwara or a place where kirtan is done. The vibration of that place will give peace to ur mind.

4. READ AS MUCH BANI AS U CAN. Thats the real medicine.

5. These days amritdharis have also become worldly and selfish. So telling them about ur problems might not be the solution.

But, if u r lucky and u can meet a gurmukh who can understand ur suffering, instead of giving u lecture, that can be really great. Such a sangat can turn ur life upside down but such sangat is really less in this ghor kaliyug.

I feel that this athiest shud read about vairaat sampoooran jagannastra and mand-pranayam-jyotikaran and also vinaash-upadi-jagriti. It will be great if he can also read shivlingum-jagriti-gatirodh-nirnay.

It will surely make him a better person if this athiest can read about these concepts.

Only 'Vaheguru' is gurmantar as Bhai Gurdas jee says, vaheguru gur mantar hai jap haumae khoee

Jaap of satnaam-vaheguru is not gurmantar.

Bhul chuk muaf jee.

thats true. So all this chating "satnaam waheguru satnaam waheguru " is happening bhed-chaal. hahahaha.

Moreover, I feel we shud not make gurmantar so khullaa. Only a person who has TAKEN gurmantar from Guroo roop Punj shud be encouraged to chant the gurmantar.

Satnam -- the true name ~~Waheguru

so u mean "bolo satnam waheguru" means speak the true name i e. waheguru.

But its fine if the kathavachak is saying this but the sangat shud only be speaking waheguru.

for example I tell somebody "bolo pavitaarr naam waheguru" and that person starts chanting "pavitarrnaam waheguru ... pavitarrnaam waheguru".

Many times especially before eating langar, I see everyone chanting "satnaam waheguru ........... satnam waheguru". They make it look like a jaap of a mantar."

These days lots of parcharaks while doing their katha, tell the sangat to speak "satnaam waheguru". What is the history of this ?

"satnaam waheguru" is neither the gurmantar nor the moolmantar.

Is their any historical account where this chant or mantar "satnaam waheguru" started ?

There was a sect called satnamis who believed in "satnaam" as their mantar or naam.

Just another thing id like to point out lol. I started translating this Rehat with my mum lol and i coul;dnt find it on the english version on here, but it says that when doing Rehraas you must also do Aarti aswell

Its mentioned in point no. 9

"Shami - Sodar Rehraas --Aarti Aarta parhe ja suney. Saaun samey kirtan sohila da path kar ardas kar bisraam karey"

Aarti is a collection of beautiful shabads and one shud try to sing arti daily.

I dont know much about artaa. May be some nihung veer can tell about arta. I guess it must be contaning Dasam Bani.

I have heard that Baba Attar Singh Jee Mastaune Wale used to say that in sangat, a short ardaas shud be done.

I have observed tht many people try to leave before the ardaas starts as they feel its gonaa be really tough standing and listening to ardaas.

I feel the ardaasiye singh shud do a compact and simple ardaas instead of using new or tough words or repeating the same lines again and again.

We should do the real ardass( which is taken from chundi di //) and not the one that has been changed for us that we all practice. The short and correct ardass should be done that was given to us. Its time we start to practice the correct prayers that have been set out for us not the ones we have changed in recent times by corrupt leaders.

Dear Veer, I feel even after Sri Chandi di vaar stanza, the panth has formed a very good ardaas that reminds us of our great unmatchable history by remembering the great punj pyare of 1699, the 4 great Sahibzadas, great shaheed singhs/singhnees.

The problem is that in sangat, there are many people who are old, or not physically well and they cant stand for 15 minutes. Then there are many people who really cant focus on such a long ardaas, so deep down they are just thinking "when will this ardaas end?".

The ardassiye singh shud take this into consideration and perform a good quick ardaas. These days many gianis try to use new goody goody words(to make their ardaas better than others,lol) in their ardaas, just keep on repeating the same lines again and again. Akal Purakh does not like this, He likes a simple sachi ardaas in plane simple language.

Some time back, I went to a smagam and ardaas took 20 minutes. That just spoils the sanctity of the ardaas and u have people who are just phsysically present but mentally absent in the ardas.

I have heard that Baba Attar Singh Jee Mastaune Wale used to say that in sangat, a short ardaas shud be done.

I have observed tht many people try to leave before the ardaas starts as they feel its gonaa be really tough standing and listening to ardaas.

I feel the ardaasiye singh shud do a compact and simple ardaas instead of using new or tough words or repeating the same lines again and again.

Some websites and scholars mention that Sri Akal Ustat and Sri Gyan Parbodh are incomplete banis ? Is this true ??

Thanks

harinder singh ji

Akal ustat has 271.5 verses.That means one line is not written by Guru sahib to make it 272 verses.That is what people write about akal ustat being incomplete.Akal ustat is praise of God.Many say that Guru ji left one line on purpose to show that God's praise is beyond description.

I have not found any such thing in Gian Parbodh.If you have some refrence please post here.

There is some Bhai Anurag Singh, head of some itihaas comitte of SGPC.I was listenening to his speech at some conference and he said that gyan parbodh was left incomplete. Some websites also mention this fact.

Source: http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Gian_Prabodh

GIAN PRABODH (Guide to Enlightenment), included in Guru Gobind Singh`s Dasam Granth, is a long poem in Braj employing sixteen different metres. It comprises two independent pans, the first, i.e. the introductory one (stanzas 1 to 125), beginning with laudation of the Almighty who is depicted as Supreme, beyond comprehension, non dual, infinite, invisible, unattached, desirelcss and fearless. The Supreme Being is the Creator and Succourer of the universe, and the Embodiment of Supreme Bliss. He is beyond Time and beyond retribution for karma. All pilgrimages, practices of yoga, renunciation of the world, are meaningless if He is not remembered. The second part consists of 211 stanzas (126336), each a quatrain with the exception of two couplets (250 and 253). The theme of this part is the practical philosophy of the world. The expositions are professed in the form of highly metaphysical dialogues, between Jivatman and Paramatman, and the nature of dtman and fourfold worldly dharma i.e. politics {raj dharma), charity (dan dharma), household life (BHOG dharma) and liberation (moksa dharma) have been defined. How this fourfold religion of man is to be lived is illustrated from the legends of the Mahdbhdrata and from the tales of the successors of Yudhishlhira and his brothers, namely Priksit, Janmejya and his son, Ajai Singh, born of a concubine. This is the name given to the sixth Bani in the second holy scriptures of the Sikhs called the Dasam Granth. This text spans from page 325 to page 643 of the 1478 pages of this holy book of the Sikhs. (Original text is over 1428 pages). Another highly devotional ballad comprising 336 verses, Guru Gobind Singh ji praises the qualities of the Almighty. The text then deals with a dialogue the soul has with the King of Souls (the Almighty), where emotions, the play of various eras (Satyug, Treta, Dwapur and Kalyug) are discussed. The four facets of Dharm (righteousness) are deliberated (Bhog, Raaj, Dhaan, and Mokh). However, only Dhaan Dharam has been discussed, the other 3 facets have not, which leads many to belive this work was left unfinished.

The summary of this Bani is narrated by Gobin Sadan at:

&lt;banned site filter activated&gt; "This composition has two main divisions. The first part is devoted to the praise of the Almighty God, He who is all prevading, Omniscient and Omnipotent. His various attributes, His might, magnanimity and his greatness are the subject of this part of Gyan Prabodh. The entire description follows the tradition of gurbani and elucidates the main ideas that are presented within it. The second part is in the form of a dialogue in which the soul questions God about that super power whose radiance and glory is unending. The answers are all within. He is without differences of caste, creed, religion. For Him friend and foe are alike.

Then the soul asks about the four dharmas in answer the four dharmas are elaborated upon. These are Raj dharma, Daan dharma, Bhog dharma and Mokh dharma. Giving examples from the lives of great personalities as mentioned in the various scriptures about Daan Dharam have been explained to the soul. The writing also is a source of knowledge and wisdom since in it we find elucidated the various kinds of Yagnas that were performed and how they were performed. This information is very significant since no other source of information regarding these exists. This is an incomplete piece of writing because the three other dharmas mentioned have not been elaborated upon."

harinder singh ji

I will call it assumption of these writers about gian parbodh.Gian parbodh proclaims futility of yajanas in the later part.

pyare veer jeeoo,

thats exactly what I thought. All banis in Sri Dasam Granth Jee are complete. Its just the incapability of people to understand the agammiiii dargahi gurbani.

Some websites and scholars mention that Sri Akal Ustat and Sri Gyan Parbodh are incomplete banis ? Is this true ??

Thanks

harinder singh ji

Akal ustat has 271.5 verses.That means one line is not written by Guru sahib to make it 272 verses.That is what people write about akal ustat being incomplete.Akal ustat is praise of God.Many say that Guru ji left one line on purpose to show that God's praise is beyond description.

I have not found any such thing in Gian Parbodh.If you have some refrence please post here.

There is some Bhai Anurag Singh, head of some itihaas comitte of SGPC.I was listenening to his speech at some conference and he said that gyan parbodh was left incomplete. Some websites also mention this fact.

Source: http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Gian_Prabodh

GIAN PRABODH (Guide to Enlightenment), included in Guru Gobind Singh`s Dasam Granth, is a long poem in Braj employing sixteen different metres. It comprises two independent pans, the first, i.e. the introductory one (stanzas 1 to 125), beginning with laudation of the Almighty who is depicted as Supreme, beyond comprehension, non dual, infinite, invisible, unattached, desirelcss and fearless. The Supreme Being is the Creator and Succourer of the universe, and the Embodiment of Supreme Bliss. He is beyond Time and beyond retribution for karma. All pilgrimages, practices of yoga, renunciation of the world, are meaningless if He is not remembered. The second part consists of 211 stanzas (126336), each a quatrain with the exception of two couplets (250 and 253). The theme of this part is the practical philosophy of the world. The expositions are professed in the form of highly metaphysical dialogues, between Jivatman and Paramatman, and the nature of dtman and fourfold worldly dharma i.e. politics {raj dharma), charity (dan dharma), household life (BHOG dharma) and liberation (moksa dharma) have been defined. How this fourfold religion of man is to be lived is illustrated from the legends of the Mahdbhdrata and from the tales of the successors of Yudhishlhira and his brothers, namely Priksit, Janmejya and his son, Ajai Singh, born of a concubine. This is the name given to the sixth Bani in the second holy scriptures of the Sikhs called the Dasam Granth. This text spans from page 325 to page 643 of the 1478 pages of this holy book of the Sikhs. (Original text is over 1428 pages). Another highly devotional ballad comprising 336 verses, Guru Gobind Singh ji praises the qualities of the Almighty. The text then deals with a dialogue the soul has with the King of Souls (the Almighty), where emotions, the play of various eras (Satyug, Treta, Dwapur and Kalyug) are discussed. The four facets of Dharm (righteousness) are deliberated (Bhog, Raaj, Dhaan, and Mokh). However, only Dhaan Dharam has been discussed, the other 3 facets have not, which leads many to belive this work was left unfinished.

The summary of this Bani is narrated by Gobin Sadan at:

&lt;banned site filter activated&gt; "This composition has two main divisions. The first part is devoted to the praise of the Almighty God, He who is all prevading, Omniscient and Omnipotent. His various attributes, His might, magnanimity and his greatness are the subject of this part of Gyan Prabodh. The entire description follows the tradition of gurbani and elucidates the main ideas that are presented within it. The second part is in the form of a dialogue in which the soul questions God about that super power whose radiance and glory is unending. The answers are all within. He is without differences of caste, creed, religion. For Him friend and foe are alike.

Then the soul asks about the four dharmas in answer the four dharmas are elaborated upon. These are Raj dharma, Daan dharma, Bhog dharma and Mokh dharma. Giving examples from the lives of great personalities as mentioned in the various scriptures about Daan Dharam have been explained to the soul. The writing also is a source of knowledge and wisdom since in it we find elucidated the various kinds of Yagnas that were performed and how they were performed. This information is very significant since no other source of information regarding these exists. This is an incomplete piece of writing because the three other dharmas mentioned have not been elaborated upon."

Some websites and scholars mention that Sri Akal Ustat and Sri Gyan Parbodh are incomplete banis ? Is this true ??

Thanks

Harinder Singh Veerjee dont do someone's nindiyaa and end with "Raj Karega Khalsa" as that which is Khalas doesnt have anything to do with nindiyaa. if you want to learn vedas and become a scholar please do and once you have learned something then talk. lastly your posts are off-topic. you've been warned.

dont try to scare me with this nindiya thing. Khalsa does not run after sant babas.

Regarding ur warning, do whatever u feel like

Just last night there was katha at Gurdwara Dasmesh Darbar, Calgary about this same issue. I heard it online live.

Some atheist came upto a Gurmukh and said that you guys squander money from naive people in the name of religion. There is nothing called God. If there is, show me. The Gurmukh tried to reason with him but of no avail. Finally, he said alright I'll show you God. He asked someone to bring a brick (maybe it was xHarinder_singh veerji *HAHA* just kidding jeeo) and hit the brick on that guy's head. He started cussing the Gurmukh and yelled why did you hit me. Gurmukh said why what happened? He said I am in pain. The Gurmukh said I can't see the pain, show me where is it. The atheist said even if you can't see it, I do feel it. The Gurmukh said there you have your answer. God is not seen, but felt!

bhul chuk maaf

hahahaha, very nice pyare jeeeooooo.