jasleen k

what about deodorant? if you breath that in it is intoxicating, and its getting rid of Gods gifts, the natural body odour.

as long as it doesn't contain alcohol or animal products you should be fine.

though it's best to make your own in a sarbloh deodorant stick mould. :D

jasleen, dont jump to conclusion

incase you don't know, just like spanish, a lot of punjabi words are feminine or masculine

jooth is a feminine noun, i apologize for that

as for the dictionary, i don't think punjabonline suffices

if i spit on my hand and touch ur roti, ur roti is joothi

maharaj is talking spiritual jooth, bani shouldn't always be taken so literally

the whole point of that shabad is that everything is "impure", that brahmanical notions of purity do not apply to sikhs because we know that only God is truely "pure".

i'm not saying we should eat roti that someone spit on (gross!). swimming in a chlorinated pool or a large body of water is not even in the same league as spitting on roti. we sit on the train or bus, touch the hand rails, is that ok? if you go to the gym or take phys ed in school you take a shower in a common shower. is the floor joothi? how is it different?

maryada says not to share food with non-amritdharis. it doesn't say to avoid every place that non-amritdhari might touch.

it's all maya. throw your phone away and start using messenger pigeons. no maryada says you can use phones.

it's all a sign of kaliyug!

ਜੂਠ

جوٹھ

noun, feminine pollution, contamination; food polluted by taste or touch, leftovers, leavings, orts, crumbs, kitchen refuse; slang. low, mean person

as you can see the first two definitions have nothing to do with food

can you share your superior dictionary so i am not so confused in the future?

also, what is "feminine pollution"? are women jootha? :o

food polluted by touch- does this mean you won't eat prashada from the hands of a sikh who isn't as good as you (or took amrit from someone you didn't?)

anyway, i still don't see anything in here that could possibly apply to swimming in a large body of water. as someone has already said, we dip in the sarovar and don't think twice, but lakes and oceans are too dirty for you? how is it different?

guru ji says we're all jootha. you decide how far you want to take it. but (again) please don't enforce it as maryada because there's nothing in any rehat anywhere against swimming.

the only thing that is pure is GOD. these brahmanical superstitions about pollution are disturbing.

as usual, i can't have this conversation with you. i think you're being completely absurd in your ideas of what is "polluted" and what is not.

I hope this solves problem perfectly(without the fancy hair do ) as far as quality of water of swimming pool is concerned that is the least of worries as you will not drink that water and you shower before going in and coming out of pool. As far Kirpan is concerned it can be worn in side this suit.

Das di benti hai ke ladai chad ke mil jul ke guru di galan kariye.

Bhul Chuk Mauf.

watch out! your statement sounds almost logical. and we all know that logic = "liberal" = you're not a REAL Sikh! :umm:

(just kidding)

ਬਸੰਤੁ ਹਿੰਡੋਲੁ ਘਰੁ ੨

Basant Hindol, Second House:

ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥

One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:

ਮਾਤਾ ਜੂਠੀ ਪਿਤਾ ਭੀ ਜੂਠਾ ਜੂਠੇ ਹੀ ਫਲ ਲਾਗੇ ॥

The mother is impure, and the father is impure. The fruit they produce is impure.

ਆਵਹਿ ਜੂਠੇ ਜਾਹਿ ਭੀ ਜੂਠੇ ਜੂਠੇ ਮਰਹਿ ਅਭਾਗੇ ॥੧॥

Impure they come, and impure they go. The unfortunate ones die in impurity. ||1||

ਕਹੁ ਪੰਡਿਤ ਸੂਚਾ ਕਵਨੁ ਠਾਉ ॥

Tell me, O Pandit, O religious scholar, which place is uncontaminated?

ਜਹਾਂ ਬੈਸਿ ਹਉ ਭੋਜਨੁ ਖਾਉ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥

Where should I sit to eat my meal? ||1||Pause||

ਜਿਹਬਾ ਜੂਠੀ ਬੋਲਤ ਜੂਠਾ ਕਰਨ ਨੇਤ੍ਰ ਸਭਿ ਜੂਠੇ ॥

The tongue is impure, and its speech is impure. The eyes and ears are totally impure.

ਇੰਦ੍ਰੀ ਕੀ ਜੂਠਿ ਉਤਰਸਿ ਨਾਹੀ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਅਗਨਿ ਕੇ ਲੂਠੇ ॥੨॥

The impurity of the sexual organs does not depart; the Brahmin is burnt by the fire. ||2||

ਅਗਨਿ ਭੀ ਜੂਠੀ ਪਾਨੀ ਜੂਠਾ ਜੂਠੀ ਬੈਸਿ ਪਕਾਇਆ ॥

The fire is impure, and the water is impure. The place where you sit and cook is impure.

ਜੂਠੀ ਕਰਛੀ ਪਰੋਸਨ ਲਾਗਾ ਜੂਠੇ ਹੀ ਬੈਠਿ ਖਾਇਆ ॥੩॥

Impure is the ladle which serves the food. Impure is the one who sits down to eat it. ||3||

ਗੋਬਰੁ ਜੂਠਾ ਚਉਕਾ ਜੂਠਾ ਜੂਠੀ ਦੀਨੀ ਕਾਰਾ ॥

Impure is the cow dung, and impure is the kitchen square. Impure are the lines that mark it off.

ਕਹਿ ਕਬੀਰ ਤੇਈ ਨਰ ਸੂਚੇ ਸਾਚੀ ਪਰੀ ਬਿਚਾਰਾ ॥੪॥੧॥੭॥

Says Kabeer, they alone are pure, who have obtained pure understanding. ||4||1||7||

according to Guru ji, it looks like EVERYTHING is jootha where to now?

as for the topic you still didnt address the point of the water being jootha

jootha. i had not addressed it because it's already been addressed. but i'll try again.

ok, let's pull out the handy punjabi/english dictionary, just to make sure i'm understanding you.

"ਜੂਠਾ"

What is left after eating something, something defiled by others.

so oceans and lakes are obviously not left after eating. are they defiled? i suppose they're probably polluted, that's true. i'd assume that any "defilement" from people would be so diluted by a large body of water, or destroyed by chlorine, that there wouldn't be much, if any, jootha left, would there? of course, the air you breathe is also polluted, breathed by others. is air jootha? what about organic food. it is fertilized using the scraps from vegetables, dung from animals, now that's certainly jootha, right? so do you eat organic food? don't sikhs in india traditionally leave the ashes of the dead in a body of water? do they wade into that water to deposit the ashes? is that water also jootha? i mean, come on, how far do you want to go with this phobia?

let's make it simple. if you are near a lake, and someone is drowning, as a sikh, would you:

A) jump in and save their life

or

B) walk on by and let them die because you're afraid someone might have drooled a bit in the lake at some point in time

if we have a difference of opinion, that's ok, there's nothing wrong with it.

I tried that for a while. Its not 100% perfect.

naa sath rukhee birakhee pathhar aap thashhaavehi dhukh sehehi ||

There is no Truth in trees, plants or stones, in mutilating oneself or suffering in pain.

bhenji, what u find to be moderate is obviously appearing to be extremely liberal to others, so try not make your viewpoint/perspective the one you use to determine what is moderate, liberal, and extremist

i see. but it's ok for YOU to determine who is moderate, liberal, and extremist? just curious, how old are you and how much of the world have you seen?

listen, i have liberal amritdhari friends who think it's perfectly ok to eat meat. i have liberal amritdhari friends who think women don't need to wear any head cover at all because SRM says women "may or may not tie turban". i have liberal amritdhari friends who take their kirpan off when they sleep. i don't agree with any of these ideas. they think i'm an extremist because i don't eat meat and sleep in panj kakkars and a keski. they think the fact that i swim with panj kakkars and a keski makes me a fanatic. don't you think it's kind of ironic that some people think i'm an infidel harlot "enticing" everyone around me and others think i'm being extremist... it's all about perspective.

i would say that because i'm not as extremist as our gupt friend, but i'm also not as liberal as sikhs i know in person, that would mean that i'm somewhere in the middle. wouldn't you think so?

it's funny, in political terms, i don't mind being called liberal. but when it comes to sikhi, it's kind of insulting to call someone "liberal" about their religion, don't you think? doesn't it imply that they don't care as much, they don't try as hard, they aren't as good? because that's how it comes across. as a personal insult to my sikhi.

oh wait, you think i'm the one who is insulting other people's sikh, even as you insult me.

there's that irony again...

as for the remarks to the poster, come on. who comes in here and posts extremist views under "guest" profiles? people who actually care about sikhi? i doubt it.

thats what i was referring to

w.e

my apologies, was confused. that was my response to being told i was insulting the poster. then you agreed with tarun so i assumed you were talking about the same post.

it's kind of confusing when we don't use the handy-dandy quote feature...

so ya, i guess i think it's unnecessary for sikhs to hide, but i'm just a stupid liberal, so like you said, whatever.

We've had some "amazing" threads about if we can wear a black dumalla which can steal all our bhagti, what kind of kangha we should use, and if we will go to hell because of swimming. I thought I'd start a thread on an issue that has been torturing my soul for ages.

Can we use toilet paper?

:LOLz:

THIS is why i call you my brother. :D

Bhenji its not about winning or losing, and please don't take these posts as personal attacks. I believe Harinder Singh and I are merely trying to point out that it is ill advised for a Sikh to join the US Army. If the intentions are medical seva, one can do this without joining an army with a corrupt leadership (a point which we can atleast agree on).

i was not a sikh when i was in the army. i was in the army under president clinton, not under any war monger republican. i never went to war, instead doing disaster relief missions for flood and earthquake victims, as well as regular ambulance service in the city i was stationed in.

there are no "enemies" to medical personnel, so no, i never treated any enemy. i only treated people. human beings. human lives.

i guess i'm done on this topic. i learned a lot. i hope others did too.

according to Bhai Gurdas ji...

dhichai poorab dhaevanaa jis dhee vasath thisai ghar aavai||

Liabilities of the previous births have to be settled and the thing goes to the house it belongs to.

bait(h)aa sodtee paathisaah raamadhaas sathiguroo kehaavai||

Now Guru Ram Das, a Sodhi emperor, seated on the Guru-seat is called the True Guru.

pooran thaal khattaaeiaa a(n)mrithasar vich joth jagaavai||

He got dug the complete Holy tank and here settling down at Amritsar, he spread his light.

oulattaa khael khasa(n)m dhaa oulattee ga(n)g samu(n)dhr samaavai||

Wondrous is the play of the Lord. He can cause Ganges running in opposite direction merge in the ocean.

dhithaa leeeai aapanaa anadhithaa kashh hathh n aavai||

You get your own, given nothing cannot bring to you anything.

fir aaee ghar arajanae puth sa(n)saaree guroo kehaavai||

Now the Guruship entered the house of Arjan (Dev) who, to say was the son, but, he proved through his good deeds to be worthy of the Guru-seat.

jaan n dhaesaa(n) sodteeou horas ajar n jariaa jaavai||

This Guruship would not go beyond Sodhis because none else can bear with this unbearable.

ghar hee kee vathh gharae rehaavai ||47||

The thing of the House should remain in the House.(47)

what i understand from this...

the Guruship was all predetermined by Waheguru, based on past karams. being Guru was at times an unbearable task. think of Guru Arjan Sahib on the tava, Guru Har Krishan ji saved so many lives from disease but did not save his own (though he could have), Guru Teg Bahadur gave his life for Sikhi and freedom. Guru Gobind Singh ji gave his entire family for Sikhi...

only the Gurus preordained by Waheguru could endure such things. the fact that they were men or women is irrelevant. caste, name, sex, race... none of these things matter in sikhi.

hukam rajaaee chalanaa naanak likhiaa naal ||1||

O Nanak, it is written that you shall obey the Hukam of His Command, and walk in the Way of His Will. ||1||

all the matters is God's will.

oh, and he probably thought about all the stuff Mehtab mentions about culture, religion and society at the time. it's cool how waheguru always knows just the right thing to do.

bhenji, what u find to be moderate is obviously appearing to be extremely liberal to others, so try not make your viewpoint/perspective the one you use to determine what is moderate, liberal, and extremist

and when you made that comment about the gupt user, u very bluntly stated that anyone who cared about sikhi wouldn't make a post like that as gupt.

no, what i said was:

is this post a joke meant to cause an argument? i'm guessing that because you used a "guest" login that it is.

i don't know what translation software you and tarun singh are using, but you guys might need to upgrade. <- that's a JOKE, it's not an insult to your SIKHI. i hope that was clear.

been nice chatting with you!

What a ridiculous comparison is this. Bhai Kaniyaa jee was a BRAHAMGYANI who was on the side of the Khalsa army and gave water to the enemy soldiers.

U were EMPLOYED by a cruel dusht army which was killing innocent babies, destroying families.

Lets say a man comes up to me and tells me that he is going to burn an entire village and gives me few hundred rupees to do some medical stuff to the ones who survive the fire. Shud i accept that money ?????????

When Indian army was killing innocent people all over Punjab, would u have served as as a medic ???

i didn't compare myself, i meant that he should be our inspiration and we should try our best.

i didn't kill any innocent babies and neither do 99.99% of american soldiers.

i am horrible, i am bad, i am the worst person in the world for having helped people.

whatever. everyone except you are horrible and murderers and idiots. you win. get over it.

Dance with your mind.

waheguru!

ਹਉ ਵਾਰੀ ਜੀਉ ਵਾਰੀ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮਿ ਸੁਹਾਵਣਿਆ ॥

I am a sacrifice, my soul is a sacrifice, to those who look beautiful in the Name of the Lord, Har, Har.

ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਗਾਵੈ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਨਾਚੈ ਹਰਿ ਸੇਤੀ ਚਿਤੁ ਲਾਵਣਿਆ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥

The Gurmukhs sing, the Gurmukhs dance, and focus their consciousness on the Lord. ||1||Pause||

just because ppl's views aren't as liberal as yours doesn't make them extremists - and to say that they are not serious about sikhi? way to put ppl in a box

wait, let me fix that sentence for you. "just because ppl's views aren't as MODERATE as yours doesn't make them extremists"

ok ji, you're right, i'm sorry.

i don't think i told anyone they weren't serious about sikhi... i know you love to misinterpret my posts and try to show the world what a horrible sikh i am (and i am, i admit it), but come on, don't just make things up. :|

according to guroosaahb its really not a big deal how you comb your hair, its more important to free the knots of the vikaars that are inside you......

AGREED 100%

so why are people still arguing about it?

seriously, i agree with a previous poster. what is up with these questions???

4. Guru Sahib knew about swimming cuz he spent 3 days in a river?!! this is probably the most ubsurd comment ever - stop devaluing our history and suggesting that Guru Sahib was swimming for 3 days - that comment actually hurt quite a bit- wasn't expecting that from you

bhul chuk maaf karni

daas

to clarify, i NEVER SAID GURU JI WAS SWIMMING FOR THREE DAYS.

i'm sorry my words were unclear. i said i'm sure he knew about swimming. as in, it could have been in any maryada for WOMEN not to swim, but it's not.

i hope that's easier to understand.

as for the remarks to the poster, come on. who comes in here and posts extremist views under "guest" profiles? people who actually care about sikhi? i doubt it.

Girls can get full body swimsuits which have the extra benefit of making you look like a professional Olympic swimmer.

Yupp u can..and not too expensive either!

then that sounds like a great idea.

u worked as a medic and u saved lives, wowwww.

How about being employed as a medic by Punjab Police, all the brutal torture they do, they also need medics. How about being a medic for the Indian army when they were killing innocent singhs all over Punjab ??

ever heard of bhai kaneya ji? now, i'm not suggesting that i am anywhere NEAR his avastha. i'm not even the dust from his feet.

did Guru ji harass or taunt him for giving water to the enemy? the khalsa around him did. but no, Guru ji did not.

so you can taunt me all you want. i know that helping people is good in Guru ji's eyes. regardless of which government or army calls the shots.

your apocalyptic fantasies are starting to cloud your vision of the real world.

Nothing wrong with dancing in my opinion(as long as the dance is clean), if a sikh is krumping or breakdancing everyone will be like oh thats cool but if a sikh does bhangra people start to talk crap.

ok, for me, the main problem with dancing are the music and the venue. listen to the lyrics in banghra. it's all about sex, booze, fighting, etc. NOT exactly what gursikhs should listen to, right? second, where do people dance? clubs? filled with booze, cigarette smoke, and drunk people. again, not exactly the right environment for sikhs.

if you can find clean music and a clean venue (maybe guys only or girls only), good luck getting anyone to dance.

i think the main point of dancing is to attract the opposite sex, again, not exactly gurmat, right?

if you're dancing around your living room alone... go for it. i think that's probably ok.

Being a Gursikh Kaur, one must dress decently (that is why Bana was developed).

Firstly, it is not mandatory to learn swimming, one can take up other forms of training & exercise.

Secondly, it is unhygienic to bathe in same water as others. Generally people can't control their urine inside the pool and hence release it while swimming. Pool water is capable of carrying & spreading contagious diseases as well as infections from person to person.

Thirdly, don't think if you consult Punj Piyaras, they would approve the concept of swimming.

Lastly, Gursikh bibi's must refrain from acts which Entice the others.

is this post a joke meant to cause an argument? i'm guessing that because you used a "guest" login that it is.

look, it is not "unhygenic" to go swimming. sheesh. yes, people can control their urine inside a pool. pool water has so much chlorine in it that no contagious diseases are capable of surviving. if you can get some FACTS to backup your allegations, that would be great, otherwise, i'm guessing you're just making a joke.

why wouldn't panj piyare approve of the "concept" of swimming? seriously, why does everyone want to force their extremist views on the rest of us?

if swimming in baggy shorts and a shirt is "enticing", that's NOT MY FAULT. it's the fault of the a$$hole who is staring. and trust me, he's more likely staring at my keski than anything else.

get over it. if some of us enjoy swimming and other water based exercise, it's our choice. there's nothing in any rehatnama or in gurbani about it. don't you think Guru ji understood the concept of swimming? i mean, didn't he spend three days in a river?

do you know why i encourage everyone to learn to swim? because my close friend's daughter drowned and DIED because people nearby couldn't swim enough to save her. anything that can help us to save a life is a gift from GOD. so get off your extremist high horse and let it go.

ok, i get it. i'm a bad person for having saved lives in the uniform of an eeeevil government. whatever. i was a kid, i needed a job and money for school. just like MOST of the US army. they're not all horrible people. they're just run by a horrible government.

and cheap suburban oil? have you BEEN to the US in the last few years? gas prices are through the roof. people are trading in their SUVs for hybrid sub-compacts. yes, even in texas, people are getting rid of their pickem up trucks.

the war may have been about oil... but it sure didn't help us any. so why the he11 are we spending billions of dollars there now? i do not know. but i think if the iraqis would stop murdering each other over who believes in which califate, it might help us (and every other army who is helping- that's you britts too) pull out faster.

personally, i think we should pull out now. let them kill each other. let iran in. let kurdistan take over half of turkey. i sure don't care, i mean, if it's not khalistan, it's the devil's playground, right?

anyway, i'm voting for obama, who will pull our troops out of iraq and put them in pakistan where they belong!

very cool! encourage sis to keep wearing it!

this is an excellent idea.

consider donating to bhai fauja singh charitable trust (see orphans thread), nishkam, united sikhs, or other well established organizations with clear goals.

or directly funding schools, orphanages, and survivors is also a good idea. the main thing is to make sure you know where your money is going.

i'm going to amritsar in dec. i'll be spending a lot of time with the orphans at bhai fauja singh charitable trust. i can gather some info on what they need, etc if anyone wants.

anything else in amritsar that needs to be checked out or seva to be done, let me know. i'll be there for three weeks in dec.

again, this is a great idea you have.

WJKK WJKF

Jasleen K. Pennji

Your post is a true inspiration and I salute from my heart to all Kaurs out there who have courage of a lioness to be singhnis despite all that peer pressure and stuff. Wish if all Kaurs had mind set like yours.

Keep it up pennji

Waheguru Ji app nu Chadi Kala Bakhshan.

Bhul Chuk Mauf

i'm nothing next to these singhnia, veerji. i sit at their feet in awe. my sisters make me feel honoured just to know them!

once i become commander-in-chief everything will be sorted out, no worries

cool. when do we march on delhi? :gatka-singhni: