So_Gupt

WJKK WJKF,

I have dealings with Giani's and Granthi's on a daily basis due to their visa problems and have made the following observations and just want to know everybody's views on the subject:

1). I have never seen a single Giani or Granthi till date who has been issued with a single wage slip. Forget a P60....not even one wage slip...i have dealt with over 300 applications. Gurdwaras dont even pay their National Insurance contributions for their own employee. These are not just the small Gurdwara's but even the big ones.

2). The majority of them are brought over from India on visas the conditions of which state they will abide by National Minumum wage, however upon getting here the Giani's NI is not paid by the employer and no wage slip or P60 is issued to a Giani.

3). The common practice is to say that the Gurdwara provides free food and accomodation to the Giani as part of his salary package. From my knowledge langar is free to everybody (unless Giani's get special dishes which i doubt). As for accomodation the Gurdwara also benefits as it gets a full time employee guarding the premises.

4). From my personal experience many Giani's dont even get paid more than £80 per week (i have seen some on £40 per week). Out of this the Giani is expected to maintain himself and his wife and children back home. Try feeding a family of 4 on £80 per week.

5). Many people complain that Giani's who come from India work elsewhere and do other jobs. I would suggest the reason for this is the low wages given to them. If they got minimum wage they would not need to work elsewhere.

6). Unfortunately i have also seen many cases of where these Giani's have actually been charged in India by some committee members in order to get a visa. I was once sat in the British High Commission in New Delhi and personally saw 4 Jatha sitting there waiting to apply. After they all got refused they came to me for advice and it turned out none of them were Ragi's at all. In fact they had agreed to pay the Pardhaan of a Gurdwara 8 lakh rupees for each visa (roughly £10,000). One of the applicants bechara had been told for the last year to grow a beard and "learn some path" by the Pardhaan. I have a witness to this event as seated next to me was the owner of a famous UK based punjabi radio station. Even he was shocked.

My points are 2 fold:

Firstly we complain about the quality of Giani's and Granthi's however nobody has ever exposed the situation or fought for the rights of them (i recently did a show on Sukh Sagar Radio about this and exposed a few home truths). How are we expected to get top quality employees in any field if we are unwilling to pay them the appropriate salaries (forget expected salaries they dont even get minumum wage). What actually is happening is akin to bonded labour where a Giani is promised to be made permanent in the UK in return for ignoring his basic employee rights.

Secondly we complain about many things however how come nobody complains about the immigration fraud openly carried out by the Gurdwara committees over the years? Where has all of this money charged from potential Giani's to come to the UK gone? In order to sponsor a Giani letterheads of Gurdwaras have been openly misused. The Same letterheads contain quotes from the Gurbani on them. The Gurdwara has become a source of earning money from potential immigrants.

If anybody was expected to survive in the UK on £60 a week and bring up a family and work full time then surely any person would look for alternative employment. However the Giani's cant even do that because they are tied down to their Gurdwara for up to 5 years.

Please note i am not saying that all Gurdwaras engage in these practices but the majority of the ones i have seen have done in the past and these include some big Gurdwara's. I may be worng in my points however i only comment on my own experiences and dealings with Giani's and Gurdwaras. I would love to hear what Gurdwara committees actually have to say on this issue.

Tbh, i didnt read what you wrote and went on giving my opinion.

Buh yeh ^ all of above is so true, really glad somone bought this issue..

My Family member was a granthi and weekly pay was £80 + £10/15 from kirtan or other paaths

^ Funny thing is that Granthi;s are paid the least amount..To be honest, gurudwara is not a business place at all, but I seriously think granthi's should be paid the highest ..I feel disgusted..cos if i worked the amount of hours they do at my workplace (more cleaning/sorting shelves less work), I would seriously no joke, would earn more than a grand for just working a week.

I really do hope to get into a good university and come out with a such a job, where i would not hesitate to write a cheque to a granthi.

Other most disgusting thing is those people, that abuse granthi's not very well educated, well why dont you educate them init..

Such a sensitive issue, i really hope to put an end to this..Only thing i hate in life..

Wahe Guru Ji Ka Khalsa, Wahe Guru Ji Ki Fateh

For any donation for Sukhwinder paji, you guys can contact his Mama Sardar Gyan Singh Rahi (Uncle) on 07878671400

Omg.No No..I mentioned above that people need to call up the local gurudwara and arrange something with them. Please do no be handing money to any indiviual.Please Benti to thesangat and pass on the message.

Sukhwinder's Dad in india has decided that he will perosnally come to uk (Defo's) to get his son once his passport is made, which wont take long..Please wait till his dad comes..

Btw can i just ask who pointed out that money should be given to the mama? Mama himself?? Please Dont..Thankyou..Spread on the message !!

Just Wanted to say that Money isnt a big issue here, but however if the sangat wants to help then defoo's something will be done by the local gurudwara commitee as they can make sure that in india the money goes in the right hands e.g. Son or his wife. I will post up some useful numbers to contact as his relatives are still getting in touch with the commitee at the gurudwara to encourage the police to send Sukhwinder's Body back home soon as possible.Hopefully There will be a programme organised at the Gurudwara for his bravery. Will post up any info later. Back to revision.Exams 2mrw

Why cant i attach a photo or a file?? a erro message keeps coming up

Benti. Please post any details on this Singh Sahib's funeral. Sangat should take time out to attend the funeral of this true hero......

Dhan Guru Dhan Guru Piyaray.....

Funeral Will not be taking place here, dats for sure as this singh was from india and the only reason he was here to send money back home so literally has not gone back and his wife a little kid as well as his parents have not seen him for 5-7years (Prolly longer).

However my parents have said that it will take a lot of time to send the body back to india, so all we can do is pray for things to be done quicker. A true hero, Chardi kala singh.

I Personally know this Singh Pajji, always happy and chardi kala. My Parents Have Just gone to london (Barking) to sort out everything as his whole family is down in india. Please Pray that everything gets sorted quickly so that the body can be sent to india for saskaar..Very sad news:((

Do Ardas From the Bottom of Your Heart.

im about to strat this coursework (the kinetics of the hydrolysis of esters and i am completely clueless as to what to do need urgent help :s

Is it OCR Board?.If Yeah den yes i mite be able to help.lol

Hmm, it does not claim Humans come from apes, it clearly states that Humans and Apes have a "Common Ancestor" and there is a lot of evidence such as the fossil record buh few gaps in it and also the DNA etc. I cant Be Arsed to go in detail but you should certainly read up on evoultion and do a little search.

And Gurbani, it states that:

ਕਵਨ ਮੂਲ ਤੇ ਮਾਨੁਖੁ ਕਰਿਆ ਇਹੁ ਪਰਤਾਪੁ ਤੁਹਾਰਾ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ From what source did you create humans? This is Your Glorious Grandeur. |Pause|

ਜੀਅ ਪ੍ਰਾਣ ਸਰਬ ਕੇ ਦਾਤੇ ਗੁਣ ਕਹੇ ਨ ਜਾਹਿ ਅਪਾਰਾ You are the Giver of the soul and the breath of life to all; Your Infinite Glories cannot be spoken.

ਸਭ ਕੇ ਪ੍ਰੀਤਮ ਸ੍ਰਬ ਪ੍ਰਤਿਪਾਲਕ ਸਰਬ ਘਟਾਂ ਆਧਾਰਾ You are the Beloved Lord of all, the Cherisher of all, the Support of all hearts.

ਕੋਇ ਨ ਜਾਣੈ ਤੁਮਰੀ ਗਤਿ ਮਿਤਿ ਆਪਹਿ ਏਕ ਪਸਾਰਾ No one knows Your state and extent. You alone created the expanse of the Universe.

I wouldnt Personally worry about how I came to existence but what I would defo worry about is, Why?? For What Purpose??

Guru Ji clearly states that we came according to His Hukam:

The Text Above Sums It All Up But you can still check out the Link Below

http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

Here Bro, Check Out This Video .There Are More Parts To It. It sums it up the whole concept of homosexuality and it having no importance in sikh way of life

And Anyhooo, We Should Question Our Ownsleves..Why Waheguru Has Sent Us Into This World, And What Is Puropse Of Life Etc

^^ The Answers To These Questions are simple and are mentioned in Guru Granth Sahib Ji and In Sikh way of life Homosexuality Plays No Part In it, as Guru Ji Warns us from lust and considering homosexuality, it's *Lust*

For those who don't know...

DRINKING WILL ONLY HELP YOU!! :lol:

Drinking will help your.. liver get clogged up.

Drinking will help your.. heart not function well enough.

Drinking will help your.. CENTRAL nervous system mess up. (brain +SPINAL cord)

Drinking will help your.. brain not get the correct msgs at the correct times.

Drinking will help your.. blood vessels clog up and, basically, swell up really nicely.

Drinking will help you.. (when consuming a lot) not know you're feeling, and mix your emotions.

Now wouldn't it make sense that our Guru jis would, with open arms, allow alcohol into the daily lives of Sikhs?

REMINDER: I'm talking about our Guru jis who knew everything...and corrected scientists and astronomers.. doctors and other philosophers...

It WOULD make sense for Guru jis to have made at least ONE mistake right..

Cuz clearly.. Drinking alcohol really helps you. :lol:

.......

In Punjab, liquor is cheap. It's all a part of the INDIAN GOV'T's PLAN TO DESTROY SIKH FAMILIES AND BREAK PPL AWAY FROM SIKHI..

I don't need to explain how the plan's working..

If you still don't understand.. Get a life...

Everyone knows that. One of my friends wasn't allowed to go out with me to the movies cuz her mom saw that I was a Sikh... I was like "umm...okay?"

Turns out that she thinks ALL SIKHS are heavy drinkers...and that's why her daughter wasn't allowed to hang out with me.. Okay... Perfect. That's all I needed..for ppl see me as a drunk.

Oh and... Anyone take note of the JATT SONGS?? They are about drinking.. drinking.... drinking...... drinking, and more drinking.

Many people, Specially The Youth questions Whether Consuming Alcohol In sikhi is allowed or not ? Not only that but also many non-sikhs think that Sikhs are allowed to drink which is upsetting..But anyhoo here's a little video, exactly showing that alcohol is forbidden in Sikhi, Please Check it out !

...... Where on Earth do ppl get the IDEA of even QUESTIONING whether alcohol in Sikhi is allowed or not..

**Please note slight sarcasm in my post**

No idea, but yah it would be nice if u came down to my area (Birmingham), then i'm sure you'll see that the state of many sikhs is messsed up and many of them yes question and i perosnally think it is good, as from questionning they learn, this is not just the case with many sikhs but also with non-sikhs, we tend to question other religions (maybe u do or dont), well i do just to gain information about their religion aswell aswell as my sikhi too so that i have enough gyan to be able to answer others when they question me on my beliefs and be able to pass on the code of coduct that our gurus have set us.

Many people, Specially The Youth questions Whether Consuming Alcohol In sikhi is allowed or not ? Not only that but also many non-sikhs think that Sikhs are allowed to drink which is upsetting..But anyhoo here's a little video, exactly showing that alcohol is forbidden in Sikhi, Please Check it out !

Thats Good man !!

I am Doing it too.Actually i have done it Just about to send now ! Thanks for the e-mail addie

Thanks Bro

Also i'm thinking of a poster along the lines "Please Cover Your Head Because In The Darbar Sits Your Guru"

or maybe somfink better than that, as at my local gurudwara i have seen two people in a row walking inside Darbar Sahib without their heads covered, so if someone or pajjie ^ u urself can make one like da one i'm suggestin. it will be great lol

Thumbs Up To The Original Poster !

Great Job man, Nice One :D

http://www.youtube.com/user/khalsakohli

^^ Ahhhh..Errrrgghh!!!

The picture in the background, which donkey minded person did that ? can we get it taken off the intrenet or youtube?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KcVWUlRDjHs...ature=rec-HM-r2

also this video, What the hell !

See the description from the username

ohhh Waheguru

It has not yet been fully accepted due to the gaps in the fossil's records, but however the study of DNA's are really backing up the theory of evolution.

If i get some time, i will surely post up some good link, so everyone does have a clear understanding of the theory of evolution.

We as sikhs shouldnt bother our selves with this theory, as we have The Wonderful Guru Granth sahib Jii to study.

video by 'Notorious Jat & Nirmal Sidhu' called Khanda...

^^^^ Referring to these clowns

ahhhhh anuva one:( but seriously these types of singers need a bluddi smack on their face with my shoe, do they even know the meaning of khanda !!

one minute they talking about girls and the other they talking about khanda..WTH

There are bluddy Clowns !!!

i wish i could contact them and tell these fools how ashamed the sikh panth is to have them

KHalsa Girl 1, calm down. Everybody knows Islam is the best cult to follow for a criminal.

Well they tried to convert me too. I was lone Sikh in whole school and believed their fairy tales (I was 11 years old back then)... Luckily because of Gurkirpa I came to know about the true face of Islam and since then have never been influenced by Sullahs again.

These Muslims are good liars and speakers, they can persuade you just in a few moments. They should get a double M.A. degree for brainwashing.

My question, why don't these idiots get their a**es kicked by Singh(ni)s if we have their names and places? Has Shere Punjab, AK47 Jatha, etc died out? Any volunteer Singh(ni)s to beat these Musis back to Pakiland?

WJKK WJKF

U know what, i see a lot of singhs myself dossin around, specially if you come round the birmingham area and non of them will do anything, teach apniya kuriya the importance of sikhi *Kesh* etc, but they are busy with their own lives doing nothing !!! Feel like laughing at them

seriosuly no joke, these singhs that dont study or have any jobs, should seriosuli strat doing vicharr and get some santhiyaa!!

This is a big slap on teh face, when a born sikh girl converts to islammmm, seriosuly if any of the singhs are redain this or even singhniyaa .Please a big benti to you, start inspiring the people next to you !!

I am surely going to do this, but you know whats sad , no one is willing to help you !!!

We as the youth can do so much, only if we started thinking straight !!!

If no one is willing to help, then i guess people like me are just going to sit at home and do path and cry for them girls that leave home just to bluddy accept islam

:rolleyes: :umm:

Any Coaches ?

Hey

Just want to know, are there any coaches going from birmingham or wolvo ???

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Ox_iupcc2I Part 1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHKzH046Mpw Part 2