randip singh

*edited* here is Joe De Angelis and her is Robbie *edited* Come you tell me whi bulked up........... BTW..did Robbie take steroids before..........because that knackers your kidneys and liver so youd have problems breaking down heavy proteins..............he'd have to become a vegan............. :T: here's Wayne pickering Mr England........... ............I reckon Robbie quite small in terms of the Bodybuilding circuit........... Akal Purakh........stick to being a Vegetarian cos I know you're never gonna eat eggs..............but DONT be a Vegan.........

I can't see a chicken saving my life from a Great White Shark......... ...........only jesting gentlemen............. :wub:

but Ryu have you got any names of Vegan Bodybuilders?...............you see I am interested in this? .........have they won anymajor competitions?

Hi Ryu, Could you post some links to Vegan Bodybuilders? Also what competitions they have won? :T: The only champion bodybuilders I can think of either eat meat or are Vegetarian but still eat eggs.....................in this latter category comes Bill Pearl.........................definitely not any Vegan ones............ :wub: Hi Akal Purakh, Have you tried the training tips I gave you? Also, I have been reading about Creatine too, avoid it if you can as it causes a strain on your liver and kidneys................

There used to be a Gym at my Local Gurudwara Rosebury Avenue, Manor Park.................but in their wisdom the Gurudwara closed it down........... .............Then we started training at the Gurudwara at Upton Park..............but the as*holes their made it so difficult for us to get into the gym and plus they wouldn't replace equipment we just started training at Wag Bennets on Romford Road.................:wub: ............How are we supposed to improve the well being of the Khalsa with idiots like this running the show............

Brother......I have yet to hear of or meet a Vegan Champion Bodybuilder, Powerlifter or Athlete.................. ..........Veganism.............a definite no no........... Next we'll be trying to live off fresh air...............

One to counter false Sikh History propogated by Mcleodists............ :wub:

One hell of a reply and exatly my thoughts on the subject.............KPS Gill is a Sikh in appearance and a meat eater and a complete <banned word filter activated>.....................then you have Adolf Hitler who was a vegetarian yet commited the biggest genocide in human history........... I agree...........we should comtemplate waheguru and then we will know what is right or wrong.......... :wub:

Akal Purakh.........................sorry about the alcohol comment.......................I did not mean that you consume alcohol……………….it was that people in the medical profession don’t often practice what they preach……………. I am trying to set up a group to keep Sikh youth off alcohol, drugs etc (including steroids)…………doing weights etc is one way of doing it………..and I get frustrated when we start bickering over things like eating meat…………. I respect your view that you do not eat meat………..just like I respect my relatives who are vegetarian……..but they too respect my wishes that I occasionally eat meat………..especially when training hard………never do they bring Sikhism as a reason to stop eating meat…………… …………….there have always been Sikhs that eat meat and ones that do not……………if Baba Deep Singh did not then I respect him not because he was a vegetarian but because he was a great man……………. ……anyway…………..back to body building…………….I think all Sikhs should take this up…………..it build discipline and character………….

Me Misleading...........don't you think you are getting personal.............you sound like a typical pre-meat eater or a pro vegetarian.............you start getting hysterical after a bit............. :wub: .......... ............only jokin mate......... Brother this thread is about Bodybuilding................I can counter each and every one of the Tukhs you have quoted..................but this thread is for bodybuilding............... The fact is there is NOT one pure-Vegetarian bodybuilder of note..........(i.e does not eat eggs)................if you can find one then kudos to you............I 've trained at some of the best gyms with some of the top bodybuilders like Bertil Fox............at Wag Bennets and Bill Stevens...............but its no big deal...........and you will note many top bodybuilders tend to be Doctors in nutrition and other disciplines...........eg Dr Franco Columbo........... ...........and don't get too excited about studying medicine..........you haven't graduated yet...... .....the Doctors I have met also tend to have the biggest vices too like "Alcoholism"............... ........and Bro...............apply the same standards to yourself............don't just quote one or two lines fom the Guru Granth Sahib and take them out of context of the paragraphs...........that is deliberate misquoting................. :doh: ...............also I take it you understand Gurmookhi.............if you do then do me a favour and look up the word "Murdar"............... :D ..........I could not care less if you want to eat meat or not eat meat it simply has NOTHING to do with Sikhism.........................the advocating of meat eating just takes us to the semitic texts and Islam and the Vegetarianism takes us closer to Hinduism.................. Anyway here's something more for you to think about.......... and some leading Sikh Scholars.............. One thing that puzzles me is that I have many vegetarians in my family yet they do not claim that Sikhism wishes people to be vegetarian................yet you do?.................why are you doing this?...............if you for you you feel better vegetarian as a Sikh then carry on...................if someone else feels good being Sikh as a meat eater then let them carry on................whats your problem mate?

..........Bro lets take your posts literally....... ....eat only water and grain..........I don't think so............ ...........what about Marijuna and Fish...........why did Sant Kabir Ji single these out? ...........you kill living beings? Could be anything..........in this case the refrence is to sacrifice...........of the top of my head I think it is a refrence to the Mullah............. .............as for Killing hens........this was a sacrifice done by Hindu's to apease Gods............as you know any form of sacrifice is against Sikhi......... .......as for hunted meat........kabir Ji is refering to the people who live off people who suck the blood of others......... ..........which lunatic would eat rotted dead bodies.................. If you want to debate the finer points of the Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji then be prepared...........I have succesfully countered these arguments and more on Sikh-History.com................ ..........MEAT EATING AND VEGETARIANISM HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH SIKHISM..................and bro I don't want you forcing your opinions of Sikhism on everyone else............and putting them on some guilt trip........... I have a hard enough time trying to train skinny Sikh guys without you putting further guilt trips on them...............you don't think meat is spiritually right for you then don't eat it........... anyway here is a selection for you to ponder over from the Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.............. Please do not try and turn a great faith such as Sikhism into a Carte Blanche Menu................. pS a little tip bro.............when quoting from the Guru Granth Sahib ji............I suggest you read the whole Pauri to find out what context sentences are used........... :wub:

Hi Punjabi Preadator....................I can see you feel strongly about the caste issue..................we are having a debate about it on the following link........................... http://www.sikh-history.com/cgi-bin/Ultima...ic;f=1;t=001850 Note to log in or register here you will have to have a proper name id. B Singh or I Singh etc will do. Mod -10 : Topic merged from Randip singh's new topic. No more discussions are to take place regarding caste on sikhsangat.com

With all due respect brother you do NOT know what Baba Deep Singh ate.....................there are many instances of Sikhs eating meat and this nonsense that Sikhi is some kind of carte blanche menu that advocates meat eating or vegetarianism is a nonsense..................... Eat what is good for you................if you have any doubt that it is not then do not...............be that physically, mentally, spiritually.............................for me I do not see eating meat affecting me mentally, physically of spiritually......................you do and that is your choice and I can respect that................ BUT I repea t do not..............do not bringing Sikhism into this....................Sikhism is prescriptive on many issues such as caste, race, equality, justice etc.........................but diet.......... vegetarianism vs meat eating is not one.................if it did that then Sikhi would be just another extension of Hinduism or Islam................. Deep Singh ji, My problem is not meat, or eggs..............infact my doctor had told me to try cutting carbs and uping my protien................. ..........problems are Paneer, Cheese, Samosas and Parontay.......................I can assue you that these are all vegetarian.................. :wub:

Depends what sort of vegetarian you are........there are many types; 1) Western Type (i.e. in the West, Europe, America etc)..........that will not eat meat but will eat eggs and sometimes........which I find confusing fish. 2) Vegan..........will not eat meat, fish, eggs, milk cheese etc...........anything that comes from an animal........these people usually look ill.......... 3) Religious Types............won't touch any type of flesh which includes meat eggs and fish.............sometimes Buddhists , Sikhs, Hindus, Christians etc.......... Then there are people like me....................I am not convinced that our religion (Sikhism) prohibits us from eating meat..............and it helps make me stronger and fitter than the average Joe....................so I tryto have a balanced diet of vegetables, meat, eggs etc..........plenty of fruit and water too............. I used to bench around 159 kilo's and Squat around 200kilos..............Dead Lift I never kept a tag of, but it was pretty heavy.......................unfortunately I have hindered by injuries I sustained from my Rugby playing days and have had to lay off for about a year...........:wub:.................I just eat too many Parontay at the moment and am gaining too much weight..............:D.......................hopefully I'll get the all clear fom the Doc soon............. You will find too that all succesful bodybuilders eat at least eggs..............when they say they are vegetarians they mean they are western types on ovo-lacto (egg milk) diets.................eg Bill Pearl.................

Hi Punjabi Preadator, I persoanally see nothing wrong in a Sikh marrying a non-Sikh.............BUT unfortunately most of the main religions out there i.e. Islam and Christianity do not view non-Muslims and Non-Christian (respectively) as equals............that leads to trouble............. Sikhi on the other hand tries to give everyone a fair chance............Hinduism definitely does not as it locks you into a pre-ordained destiny ascribed to past deeds..............much like the race argument does............ Hi Maan, Just a couple of queestions, 1) Have you researched Sikhi and Sikh History as much as you have researched Jatt "History"? 2) Also try doing some searched of Randip Singh where I have been highly critical of Ramgarhias, Lubhanas, Ravidasia, Bhatras, Bhamans, Khatris too and not just Jatts? .....................I hate castism and racism in all its forms...............especially that which uses Sikhism to back it up.!

Hi Khalistani, You talk about destroyong Kaam...........does Bani talk about destroying Kaam or controlling it? Does it talk about controlling the 5 vices on controlling them? In the same vein God is the creator and the destroyer? Two distinct sides...........one cannot function without the other.......... ..........are not the 5 vices the darker sides of basic human emotions? If you actually destroy the emotion you become emotionless do you not? You become less human and therefore less capable of realising God........... on the other note.............. I still do not agree that you cannot meet a man or woman outside marriage..........but what about tyhe points made above..........

Hi Singh MC............I used to powerlift for many years and I have found the best source of protien to be eggs white..................I know thats no good if you are a strict vegetarian but all I can say is drink plenty of skimmed milk which is fortified............. I used to drink a milk called VITAL....................quite good................ ...........also takes amino supplements if you can..........because some of them you can't get from vegetables or if you can your body does not assimilate them well for some reason.............. Soya is just plain rubbish..............

Kaam = Lust i.e. lusting after other peoples women and men is bad............you get messed up in the head...............lust is an animal instinct and something we acknowledge but try and control.......................but to eradicate would not be human.............after all this controls the urge to mate.......... ........but we're not talking about lust are we...............we are talking about love...................or are we saying a man and a woman cannot love each other outside marriage? ........I see nothing with arranged marriage between consenting parties or a love marriage between consenting parties...................... ......me personally I met my wife outside any arrangement and we are happily married..................tell you the truth from when we both met we knew we would be married........................but hey thats me and we're happy ............. BTW I think it is out of order comparing homosexuals and lesbians to paedophiles...............most paedophiles are usually in the family already and are usually married.....................so that knocks that theory on the head.......... :wub: @

There are two or three guys that hide behind the jatt community and are writing very anti-sikh stuff..........recently they insulted Sant Bhindranwala too.......................they think they can get away with anything............. there are two or three of these guys................one guy is called Sunny Singh Bains aka Sunny Singh aka Ajat (some say he has a muslim jatt mother and sikh father and has a hang up about Sikhs sticking together because of what happened to muslims in partition)............. ...........another fellow is a guy who runs jattworld.com and calls himself lordjatt (he hides behind an alias).............someone e-mailed me saying that this fellow was a muslim jatt trying to split sikhs........ ........a third fellow is johaljatt ( who is allegedly a hindu-jatt and a pro-Indian governement supporter ) again trying to split sikhs along jaat paat.............this guy also posts under aliases of Surrey Pride and HS Birk and boasts about being a Black Cat and torturing Sikhs)...............he made fun about my relatives being burnt alive by Hindu mobs in Delhi in 1984.......... :wub: ................a fourth fellow BS Dhillon who posts under XXX on indiaculture.net claims to be an Anthropologist and Historian, but is an Engineer.............claims Sikhism is really jattism and they should be seperate from other Sikhs............. ..........Now if you analyse this, then it is very clever because over 70% of Sikhs are from jat backgrounds....................get them away from Sikhi and into Jaat Paat fights and we have a very tiny minority of Sikhs left over from other sections................... ...........sister I suggest you let as many people know about these tactics to divide Sikhi and cause us to fight one another.................. ...they all seem to plans strategies from www.jattworld.com.................see the discussion forum at www.sikh-history.com under "turban insulted" where a Sikh of jatt origin stopped posting at jattworld in disgust because of these shinanagans................ ........its very sad and sinister............. :D ..............I think everything Sant Bhindranwala said is coming true...........

There is an old punjabi saying that says "pelo upnee manjee thalay dandha fayro"............you should do that first.......... Actually..................this started with a group of guys who called themselves sikhs who went on an anti-sikh crusade.............................are you sure you are not one of these fellows hiding behind an alias...................there are a number of these fellows here is a list of these crimes who claim to be proud jatts........ 1) Insulted the Sikh Turban by refering to sikh as Towel Heads..... 2) Referred to the Guru's as weak Bhappa's........(I see you use the same term Bhappa)..... 3) Posted pornography alongside Sikh symbols such as the Khandha...... 4) Refrred to Sikh warriors such as Jassa Singh Ramgharia as Gullighara and woodpecker........ 5) Insulted Shaeeds like Beant Singh who dispatched Indira Gandhi to hell...........refered to them as dirty Chamaars........... 6) Insulted the SIKH 10th Light Infantry because they are made up of Sikhs from Choorah and Chamaar background.......... 7) Insulted great warriors like Baba Deep Singh Shaheed, and Bhai Mehtab Singh/Bhai Suka Singh............. 8)The most dispicab le thing they said was mocking my relatives who were burnt to death by Hindu mobs in the Delhi riots...........youcannot get lower than that.........:wub: etc etc etc.....the list further goes on.......... the name of the fellows who reside at jattworld are ajat, johaljatt, lordjatt, cp...........so before you make acusations about someone find out the facts.......... I will defend Sikhism till my dying breath and will not let a bunch of castist/racists (who incidently run down the name of decent jatt people) bring it into disripute

Ok fair enough you did not start the thread………what are the mis-representations………..I have yet to read anything abusive on this site about jatts…………and I doubt anyone cares for your racial theories on a SIKH website................go to a site concerned with race........... It must be an issue because you feel so strongly about it…………………………. Actually it is not pointless………………reflect on what you have said and think about what kind of groups hark on about their racial origins………..usually, Bahmans, Nazi’s and the BNP. Why use this example at all?…………………….there was a lot of things the Guru’s did or did not do…………… ….ever heard of the saying “Do as I say…….not as I do?”……………..well a teacher or Guru has nothing to prove to you or I…………………if you want me to discuss further why there were hardly any inter-caste marriages in the Guru’s times then I can post my reply that I posted to a fanatical Christian who said the same thing………………… I just read your first post and see your replies below I have commented on………….you are making a point……………… What do you mean Bhappa Sikhs?…………..You mean Guru Hargobind Singh ji, and Guru Gobind Singh ji do you?……….or Sardar Hari Singh Nalwa…………….or maybe the founder of the Dalewalia Misl Gulaba Singh………….all warriors and so called Bhappas………………were these guys not brave........... ......ever heard of the Ramgarhia Brigade, Mazbhai's, Lubhana's, Aluwalias, Bhai Bachittar Singh etc etc etc...............the list goes on........... Well find out who killed the leader of the Naquli Nirankari’s……….there is another example of a Sikh not of Jatt background………………… …….Guruji gave Jatts, Tarkhan, Choorahs, Lubhana, Julaihi, etc all warrior traits………..they are know as Sikh and are a distinct separate group from these castes/races mentioned………….see Mandala Case UK HoL In anycase………..Jatts make up 70% of Sikhs……..so the chances are that if a Sikh dies then there is a 3 in 4 chance he will be of Jatt background……….. …………….also don’t forget the millions of anti-sikh Jatts of Haryana, UP, Rajhasthan too…………..many of them helped in the Delhi Riots where the population of Sikhs were essentially from Arora, Khatri, tarkhan, Lubhana background……….. Not amusing but true………..Manak is a Jatt and Shinda from a Tarkhan background…………..both marasisIf Bhangra is a “jatt” thing then all jatts should do it……………..fact is it is a uniquely Punjabi thing that not one group can claim………..some reckon it goes back to the Macedonians of Alexander the Great………….they were not scythians.......... Why lies………………facts…………..you take the average Rural person of Punjab regardless of race……….they will be taller than other Indians…………why……..because of the rural diet of fresh dairy produce………………..take a look at the Bhaiyas in Punjab……….fom skinny runts they have become big and strong………… ………..I invite you to Birmingham…………..pay me a visit…………I’ll introduce to friends of mine……………and you tell me who is jatt and who is not……….me myself I am 6ft one………….52 inch chest………………unfortunately of late the stomachs catching up……… :wub: Please facts only my friend…………..the latter study was done at Guru Nanak University and was inconclusive because it was not compared to other Sikh groups……………it failed on other issues to………….I’ve got it on my hardrive somewhere and will paste it if I can find it………………..……….and what about comparing to Hindu-jatts (UP, Rajhasthan, Haryana and Muslim-jatts)…………………. I am not making insulting comments about the Phulkian Misl………….they have succeeded in doing that themselves by siding with Muslims and the Brits when it suited them……………even against Maharaja Ranjit Singh………. On the contrary………I have been to Punjab and spent many a happy a time surveying my fields......... ……..Jatts are a very superstitious religious group along with other Punjabi groups………they visit all sorts of Bahmans and priests etc.............. ……..read my posts on sikh-history.com about Sikh History from Persian sources………………which are as close as we can get to first hand eye witness accounts……………. Well if I’m that famous then you’ll know I know my history very well………….I research and use facts………..not conjecture…… …..anyway its about time you called me anti-jatt…………when people like you cannot debate you resort to this……………….. ………the bottom line is do not bring this race/caste nonsense into sikh web sites………..and your sentiments wont get hurt..............

Aman Kaur.....there are a hard core of about two or three people who write this divisive stuff..............

Hi Maan, Let me ask you a few questions.......... 1) If you are so concerened about race/caste what are you doing on a site about Sikhism that is firmly against racial/gender/caste distinctions? Would you not be better on a caste/race web site? 2) We all recognise that people are different from different backgrounds as Sikhs, but we do not make an issue of it. Why are you clearly making an issue of it? 3) Does not the term Aryan-Christian or White-Christian cunjer up images of some sort of right wing association? They why do you persist in doing the same? 4) You used the flimsy example of Guru’s marrying other Khatri’s only that all “race” purveyors use, but I have yet to find any Guru that refered to them as Khatri-Sikh or Khatri-Bedi. However you clearly do. Do you think you know better than the Guru’s? 5) Putting the issue of marriage to one side, does not all the Guru’s writings talk exclusively about equality? Then why then the need to emphasise amongst fellow Sikhs that you are racially different? 6) Why should we care whether you are racially different? Does it make you braver? Does it make you tougher? Does it make you more intelligent? (Think carefully before you answer this in the Sikh context). 7)You have mentioned earlier that Bhangra was invented by the Jatts, then if that is the case, then where are the Bhangra dancers in Haryana, UP, and Rajhasthan? Also what about Bhangra in Pakistan Punjab (non-existant)? What has happened to it? And please point out to the exact fellow who invented Bhangra, we all want to know? 8) What makes you racially different from other Punjabi’s? It certainly is not features or colour b ecause I see black, short and flat nosed Jatts all the time in the Midlands where there is a massive community of Sikhs from Jatt backgrounds? Do they have specific DNA markers that seperate them from the rest of humanity? 9) What makes you think we care about your racial theories......afterall .........that is all they are “theories” cunjered up by one BS Dhillon from 18th Century British Historians? (You see I have debated with BS Dhillon (XXX) on this matter and he resorted to insults in the end.) 10) What makes you think Jatts were exclluded from the caste system? What makes you think they were able to by pass the Brahmanical influences? Why did so many Jatts try to become Buddhists and then Muslims and then Sikhs and finally Arya Samajists to avoid the caste system? Why are all references in Dabistan-i-Mazhib (which are Persian records from Mughal Times) refer to Jatts as Shudra or lower Vaishnav? Why did Jatts always consult Brahmins on all auspicious occaisions? Why did the Phulkian Maharaja (Sikhs from Jatt backgrounds) try and get Brahmins to pronounce them as Kshatriyas? I have a great and deep respect for Sikhs of Jatt background. My uncle is of Jatt background, as well as several aunts, sisters in laws and wife, and they never make an issue about being Jatt, however in the last 2 to 3 years I have noticed a group of cyber-warriors determined to emphasise this Jaat-Paat stupidity over and over again..................they are continually defeated.............. .........anyway........enough questions for now...........I suspect you will call me a Jatt-Hater after you cannot answer the questions......... :e: ......but I have no time for anyone be it tarkhan, bhatra, jatt, rajput etc who is supposed to be a Sikh yet makes issu es over caste/race when it has nothing to do with Sikhism......

Look folks ...............the crux of the argument of people like Mann is that they are a race and not a caste............... .............however Bani clearly states that race/caste/gender is meaningless to a Sikh..................... ........all I say is know your bani well............. www.sikh-history.com we have taken the stand and banned any caste/race based tags on the discussion board. Names like Khatri, Jatt, Tarkhan, Ramgharia etc are banned.............I suggest this board does the same...... :e:

Lets get too the crux of the matter............. :nihungsmile: 1) STOP PLAYING WITH WORDS Sikhism does not recognise division along caste, race, gender etc...................to use stupid arguments like "oh but I am a race and not a caste" does not wash.......... 2) GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI SAYS........... I numerous places that racial distinctions have no value for a Sikh........... 3) GURU GOBIND SINGH JI SAYS Manas Ki jaat ekh paachano Recognise the human race as one If Guruji has said it then that is good enough for me. 4) Not one SIKH icon of repute jumped up and down about being a Jat, Tarkhan, Khatri or any other caste....................but they all made a point about being Sikhs........... 5) TAKE YOUR NONSENSE ELSEWHERE If you find that the Sikh religion does not believe in your racism then please find a religion that believes in it. 6) OTHER RELIGIONS I have yet too meet a Buddhist who describes himself as a Black-Buddist or English-Buddhist or a Christian who says I am and Anglo-Saxon-Christian or German-Christian............. ...............only idiots unfortunately who claim to be sikhs would describe themselves as Khatri-Sikh, Jat-sikh, or Mazbhai-Sikh........... :wub: 7) GET OVER IT and GET LOST We don't want racists polluting Sikhism with theuir caste/racial ........................so find somewhere else to post your nonsense.............I suggest www.BNP.org......... ps read the part of the Sri Guru Granth Sahib below.........comprendey...... :e: pps..........no one doubts that most shaheeds from sikhi came from jatt people....................but note that over 70% of Jatts in Pakistan and India are not Sikh..................they are either Muslim or Hindu...................NOT part of the Sikh Paanth..........