Kaljug Singh

Confusingh,

You have already shown every reader on this forum that you are a long-winded and ignorant communist rather than any kind of Sikh, so my job is done. There is not one single person here who is impressed by your verbal diarrhoea except you.

Feel free to continue to defecate your malformed thoughts wherever you wish, but every Gursikh here has had experience of bhagti and they have come to realise that the spiritual realm is not a democracy where everybody has the same avastha, and that there is more to Sikhi than playing with words.

You and your mentor, Inder Gagha, will eventually rot in narak, but you will fail first in your attempts to demean the message of Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji by misinterpreting and twisting bani because none of you are capable of understanding that Sikhi is experiental and that every Gursikh has a direct relationship with Guru Ji through naam abhyas and bhagti.

Regards,

K.

kaljug singh why the hell did you put that up!! omg take it down. eurghhh.

i wasnt implying that sikh boys are like emos, but now that you mention it, i do see some moping around and acting like them.

LOL

I guess it's only amusing if you understand Spanish expressions like puta, maricones, putos, homosexuales and no testosterona.

I was going to put The Emo Song up instead but then realised it was a little adult for this place.

I have yet to see a keshdari Singh wearing pink eyeshadow and sporting a lip-piercing (thank God).

K.

.

Confusingh,

Supernatural clearly has no place within Sikhi because it hinders ones devotion to Naam (Waheguru), if supernatural experiences did occur and were an integral part of Sikhi then ahankar one of our panj vikaar would be a problem ... because as you are saying one obtains them in an early stage of Sikhism, and to say one does and another doesn't experience supernatural powers is one attempting to show superiority (ahankar/ego).

They occur as a natural consequence of disciplined meditation and simran. Is it ahankar to walk around with 28 inch biceps as a result of working out regularly when the average person doesn't? Is it ahankar to put Dr in front of your name because you have a PhD and the average person doesn't?

Also I quote in english some more of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj-

''Riches and the supernatural spiritual powers of the Siddhas are all emotional attachments; through them the naam, the name of the lord does not come to dwell in the mind'' from the ang 593 of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji...

Previously another poster said this does not state they don't exist, ok let me put forward a question, IF they do exist (they don't) then a Sikh who experiences and attepts to come across these is then commiting two of the panj vikar... moh and ahankaar... therefore they are straying away from a path of Sikhi...

Are you having difficulty comprehending the above quote? Why would riches and supernatural powers be emotional attachments if they don't exist?

I will quote further from Maharaj ji...

''He practices the eighty four postures of Yoga, [b]and acquires the supernatural powers of the Siddhas[/b], but he gets tired of practicing these. He lives a long life, but is reincarnated again and again; he has not met with the Lord'' from the ang 642 of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji...

This is again clearly evidence that Sikhi denounces practices and rituals in order for a means of personal gain, you don't obtain the charan of Waheguru if you practice these supernatural powers...

''He practices the eighty four postures of Yoga, and acquires the supernatural powers of the Siddhas'" Thanks for just proving my point and contradicting yourself.

our Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj tells us we are carrying out moh and ahankar and if one is to give in to these then they become a manmukh, therefore by saying these Sants have supernatural powers and they're divine then we are clearly going against Gurmat

Who exactly and where has anyone here claimed that a Sant has supernatural powers and that they are divine?

and are disobeying these messages... then let me also further clarify.. we cannot go against gurmat because then we become manmukhs... and if these Sants are openly practicing these supernatural powers, then they are going against gurmat and are carrying out 2 of the panj vikar which are moh and ahankar...

If, as according to yourself, these supernatural powers don't exist, how can a Sant openly practice them?

also they are then manmukhs themselves as well as their chelay who enforce and promote this 'supernatural power' they possess... therefore again no need for Sants, this isn't me saying this, these are quoted from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj the Guru of all Sikhs...

You logic is as as non-existent as your reading skills.

And if the Sants do not carry out practices and rituals to obtain these powers then they are mere errant humans (who can make mistakes) and therefore their parchaar can't be classed as exclusively true and divine but simply an opinion or an interpretation by which we cannot follow and become their followers, but we can question and learn ourselves from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj, [b]when using guidance from another human form we are then directly conflicting against our religion again...[/b]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Yes, we should not take guidance from another human being. Except you. So santhiya, grammar, and linguistics, history, lexicography, etymology are all unneccesary because we are born with this learning.

'GURU MANEYO GRANTH' tells us as a hukam from our Guru Ji's that we should ONLY follow the guidance of ONE guru, Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj and if we stray from this then we are again not following Gurmat principles.

Yes, and we should never learn mathematics from a professor with a Fields Medal, because that would be manmat. We should all just interpret maths ourselves. Except when you tell us what an equation means, because then it's right.

Singh, I'm not manifesting rage, I just refuse to let you get away with lies and nindiya. I will point out your nonsensical statements and laugh at your pathetic attempts at discourse whenever you continue your nindiya of greater Gursikhs than you or me.

I follow no Sant above Sri Guru Granth Sahib; you follow you and that is all.

Regards,

K.

Fateh!

One in 4 people suffer from mental illness, and 6 out of every 100 people suffer from bipolar disorder. It's more common in young women from ethnic backgrounds where they are not always encouraged to express their emotions, so don't feel that you are alone.

Have you considered contacting a local support group for people who share your condition? You may even find some that cater specifically for young Asian women, if there is a large population of Indians where you live.

Do some research on mindfulness meditation and mindfulness based therapy, as they have an excellent rate of success in mood disorders. On a spiritual level, start doing Sukhmani Sahib and sampuran Anand Sahib at amritvela, but do some research to understand their meanings (don't just read them).

Best of luck,

K.

Confusingh,

You may have detected sarcasm in my posts but I was actually going out of my way to be reasonably polite, but since you have seen fit to be patronising and ill-mannered, I shall return the favour.

Firstly, congratulations in your successful attempt at making a concise post. (Now, that was sarcasm.)

I actually fail to believe you, you jump to great conclusions and don't deduce any of my arguments...

Perhaps that's because it's your job to deduce your own argument? Or are you expecting me to infer meaning from your confused ramblings?

How can you not credit Sakhiyan with the art of symbolism... they represent and show to us outcomes of what should happen if we are not to carry out a GurSikh lifestyle of truth... however you wish to ignore this, and choose cling and nit pick in your arguments,

Nope, not what I claimed.

The thing I don't see you can't understand is the fact is,

Yes, I can see your 5 years of learning have taught you much, young padawan. What?

You you sarcastic comments to counter my arguments, you don't actually take an intelligent approach and think ok... right or wrong, and say what you want I've seen alot of your other arguments, if they are not about Kung Fu they are sarcastic, and that approach Veer Ji isn't the way to get Gian, as I treat your views of sants, supernatural and rituals with respect for them being YOUR views... you should do the same for my views of gaining gian from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj.

Nope, I don't have to respect the views of an egomaniacal nutjob who is so inflated with his perceived self-importance that he believes everyone should agree with him because he claims 5 years of gian and countless shaheeds in his family, especially one who has such a weak command of the English language.

upon our mortal presence I do not feel it is suitable for a Singh to believe in supernatural practices... what made Madho Das in to Baba Bandha Singh Bahadur was him then denouncing spiritual powers and becoming gulaam to Guru Ji.

Earlier you said that the Guru Granth Sahib tells us that the supernatural does not exist, now you use the example of Madho Das, an expert sorcerer according to the puratan granths, who gave up his mantra-jantra and became Guru Gobind Singh Ji's Banda when he realised that his powers could not affect Guru Ji. So have you changed your mind?

We shouldn't be putting faith within superstitions, supernatural, rituals and idolatry as well as giving humans divinity, these are clearly not in keeping with the value system which many people do not get parchaar about... You may have your own views on ghost, spirits aliens and freddie kruger and you may find a sant who also believes in this... however if i was to introduce somebody to you tell you hes a sant (and he might have done great great seva and parchar and made lots of people Singhs) and he then tells you the only way to get rid of spirits around is to donate monthly a fee of £900, by your logic, would this then be neccesary?

No one here claims that mahapurush are divine or infallible, but I will most certainly listen carefully to anyone who has dedicated their lives to understanding the Guru's scriptures and has done great naam abhyaas and bhagti.

So far, the only message your posts contain is that: you are right, that only your views will bring the whole panth together in ekta, that mahapurush who have done more bhagti and have more learning than you will ever have do not understand the Guru Granth Sahib like you do because you have 5 WHOLE YEARS!!! of learning, and the people who disagree with your are not really Sikhs.

Truth is, yaar, that you are a nastik whose God is his insignificant ego and whose guru is his undereducated and disorganised mind.

Now quit your whining that no one is offering you logical arguments because it is clear that you are incapable of recognising them let alone countering them. If you actually want someone to read your posts, have the respect to refrain from typing every single confused though that enters your mind.

You keep mentioning these Gursikhs who agree with your message, and scholars who acknowledge your wisdom by mirroring your own thoughts. NAME THEM or admit that you are a lying fool.

K.

If you see Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj as a divinely interpreted guide to life and a Guru it does make more sense as the use of symbolism is present within Bani, Sakhis are told in order to teach morals and values, however many people fail to understand this and they miss the moral and instead do not use this as a guide to learn anything rather just a story and say we need to do the same thing... This is generally accepted through several GurSikhs (of a neutral stance, not from any school of thought or any Sant, just GurSikhs who read bani and then talk about it after hearing katha, parchar and kirtan) a key indication to this (funnily missed by several dere wale sants) was the fact that many Sakhis within Bani were before our Guru Ji's were present upon this earth, therefore after hearing these Sakhiyan, the Gurus who were very poetic, chose to implement these within the religion in order to tell Sangat of these morals and values...

Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj clearly does state the supernatural doesn't exist and therefore denounces this part of Hinduism very clearly (i.e. Idol Worship, Offerings and Spirits among the earth)... Its totally different to hear somebody on the internet say this via a forum and have somebody wearing unique choley and a jatha and chimte and dholki telling you one thing... i understand the effect Sants and such have upon people, but the fact of it is,,, Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj and Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj are generally accepted as poetic masterpieces... this is because of the intricate and complex ways that symbolism, morals and values are taught and implemented within Sikh Granths... No doubt about it, Sikhi is a value system, and until the Panth unite and understand this, I assure you there will not be any proper unity within Sikhs... Look at it this way, each different school of thought follows a different Sikhi thats a FACT... Nihang Singhs, AKJ's, Akalis, Singh Sabha, APS, and many more... neither of these have understood the call for UNIVERSAL BROTHERHOOD.

Great. You have reduced the Guru Granth Sahib to the level of Aesop's Fables.

K.

Also read Maharaj Ji's page 593 and 694 which are clear indications as to the uselessness of supernatural stories which put sangat in doubt it is wrong to do this FALSE parchaar! END OF!...

From ANG 593:

ਰਿਧਿ ਸਿਧਿ ਸਭੁ ਮੋਹੁ ਹੈ ਨਾਮੁ ਨ ਵਸੈ ਮਨਿ ਆਇ ॥

Riches and the supernatural spiritual powers of the Siddhas are all emotional attachments; through them, the Naam, the Name of the Lord, does not come to dwell in the mind.

In other words, hankering after riches or spiritual powers is a spiritual impediment. It doesn't mean that money or siddhis do not exist.

On ANG 694, Bhagat Ravidas Ji says:

ਬਹੁਤ ਜਨਮ ਬਿਛੁਰੇ ਥੇ ਮਾਧਉ ਇਹੁ ਜਨਮੁ ਤੁਮ੍ਹ੍ਹਾਰੇ ਲੇਖੇ ॥

For so many incarnations, I have been separated from You, Lord; I dedicate this life to You.

Do you consider reincarnation to be a supernatural story? Is the belief in multiple lives consonant with your devotion to logic and science?

K.

Fateh!

Bhai Yoda Singh in this katha tells us where hate comes from and where it will lead us:

K.

Confusingh,

Congratulations for entirely missing the point. For your future reference, analogy does not apply equivalence.

Feel free to name your scholars (this is the 3rd time I am asking) and I may look them up, but I'm not going to waste my time searching through your verbal diarrhoea for some kind of relevant information.

At the end of the day, people will judge the weight of the words according to the avastha of the one speaking them, and I will learn from the example of great Gursikhs like Baba Deep Singh and Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindrawale rather than listen to someone who has yet to learn to communicate a point effectively. There is no democracy in the spiritual realm.

Truth is, though you claim to be a Sikh, it is clear from your words that you have neither sharda nor any bhagti to give your words any meaning. If you are ever lucky enough to have even a basic spiritual experience, it will likely drive you insane because you admit nothing greater than your tiny intellect with which you presume to interpret the Guru Granth Sahib.

I'm done here.

K.

Fateh!

My experience with SikhiShop.com has been entirely positive. The goods were as described and they arrived promptly.

May their business continue to prosper and may the staff there continue to grow in their Sikhi.

Regards,

K.

Confusingh:

I am still waiting for the names of these scholars you mentioned and the titles of their publications. It might help the Sangat understand your points if we could see the arguments of the people you claim support your position.

Regards,

K.

Fateh!

You know, the people who are claiming that all you need to do is understand the message of the Guru Granth (and that it's not necessary to put in any effort to engage in simran or constant repetition of bani) remind me of the people I occasionally meet in my MMA class who believe they have attained some degree of expertise by reading a few books on Kung Fu.

The result is always the same - there is a look of shock and utter disbelief in their eyes when they realise that their knowledge that there is a lethal pressure point at the back of my neck doesn't mean that they have the skill to make use of that knowledge - right before they find themselves on their backs and mounted by someone intent on punching the arrogance out of their brains.

Some of these people never recover from the blow to their ego and are never to be seen again. The one's who come back swiftly realise that there is no replacement for the experience and confidence gained from constant practice.

The Gurus all said the same thing - empty rituals are useless, repetition of mantras without prem is futile. But that's not quite the same as saying someone MUST NOT engage in sargun forms of worship, or that doing mul mantra jaap for hours every day is worthless.

All the great Gursikhs in our history, and all of the Brahmgiani Mahapurush of recent times, have engaged in intense meditation (simran) for long periods of time to achieve their high avastha: Baba Deep Singh was famous for reciting 101 Jap Ji Sahibs per day, as was Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindrawale, Sant Baba Harnam Singh (Rampur Kheray) used to do 33 malay of Mul Mantra a day. It makes me laugh when people believe that all they need to do is read a few books and the sit on their butts waiting for Waheguru to arrive and introduce Himself to them.

Quality trumps quantity every time, but quality and quantity make good partners.

On the subject of Guru Nanak's Aarti, this bani is speaking of the greatness of Akal Purakh and how nature itself does Waheguru's aarti. The point was to compare the insignificance of the Devatas in comparison with their Creator.

On the subject of the aarti maryada in Hazur Sahib and in Nihang Dals, if people want to wave a few lights around while they are worshipping Waheguru because it helps their concentration, then I don't see a problem with it as they are still worshipping Nirgun form of God. The only problem would be if these Gursikhs believed that fire has some intrinsic quality that makes it attractive to God as a sacrifice.

On the subject of toof, incense has been used in religion since time immemorial as a sacrifice to gods and spirits. Its use in Sikhi has more to do with the fact that it makes the gurdwara smell beautiful, and because of the effect of incense on the mind of a worshipper - it's just a tool, a mental prop if you like, which aids in creating an aura of sanctity and to evoke a religious response in the sangat.

Regards,

K.

Confusingh,

1. It was a summary, not an argument.

2. Learn the value of succinctness in language. If you cannot make a point without waffling endlessly, then have someone proofread your posts. Brevity is the soul of wit, and tediousness the limbs and outward flourishes, you dig?

3. You can't detach Sikhi from its Indian roots, no more than you can isolate any religion or philosophy from its historical roots. A Sikh shows respect to Guru Ji in the Indian manner of covering one's head in His presence. A Catholic shows respect in a Church by removing his hat. Do you think entering a Gurdwara with a naked head is something that a Sikh will tolerate? Similarly the tradition followed in Gurdwaras in giving satkaar to Guru Ji developed in an Indian environment with social mores, rules and behavioural patterns unique to that place.

4. I don't know how to tell you this, but anthropologists and sociologists are still debating an accurate definition of ritual to this day. Perhaps you should share your definition with them since you seem to have convinced yourself that it is possible to distinguish between symbol and ritual.

5. The only real point in your word salad above is that it is of fundamental importance to understand bani as well as recite it, otherwise one is just making sounds. I agree. :-) That in no way means that repeating 108 mul mantras or holding an akhand path are fruitless occupations.

6. You mentioned some scholars that you believe agree with whatever point you are trying to make. Name them, reference a book or an essay, please. I'm sure the sangat will find it useful.

Regards,

K.

The Coke side of life in a Nihang dal.

K.

Fateh!

To summarise these 6 pages of waffle then:

- there is an unidentified gurdwara that is doing something Very Bad, but no one apart from the OP knows what it is

- there are some people whose very narrow view of Sikhi does not allow them to understand the point of traditional Sikh maryada like jyot, toof, jal and parshad

- Satkaar that is shown to the Bir of Sri Guru Granth Sahib in traditionally Indian ways that have a long history is equivalent to outright idolatry

- Daily nitnem, regular and concentrated jaap of Mul Mantra, doing simran, akhand paths and sehaj paths are Evil Brahmin Practices!!! or at best entirely useless.

- it's better to understand what you are reading. (Duh?)

- offering a dissenting opinion or pointing out the complete lack of a point in these accusations of heresy and the alternative remedies that are offered, means that you are a ... Slave of the 5 Thieves!!!

This thread gets my vote for biggest waste of time ever on the history of this forum.

K.

Fateh!

Bushido is also called the Way of living as though one were already dead.

You can find the text of Tsunetomo's Hagakure online here:

http://users.tkk.fi/~renko/hag1.html

It was written in a time of relative peace when the Samurai were losing their warrior identity and becoming bureaucrats (kind of reminds one of the current situations of Sikhs, doesn't it?). It's still a great guide for anyone dealing with the problem of maintaining the skills and mindset of a warrior when they are no longer essential to everyday life.

K.

To the OP:

Do you think Amrit Sanchar is a ritual? How about rising at amritvela and doing your nitnem bani? How about removing your kachera after bathing and replacing it with a new one without being separated from it at any time? Or matha-tekking to Guru Granth Sahib and leaving an offering in a Gurdwara?

You seem to have a distaste for Hindu practices and ideology. Have you read the Dasam Granth? What do you think of Chaubis Avatar or the Chandi Charitras?

Why do your arguments reek of Kala-Afghana and co?

K.

Fateh!

I never said things happen by magic, i said it happens by sangat. But God is the giver of sangat, not yourself. This is due to your karma and past devotion to God.

Nope, you are not saying things happen by magic. You are saying that you have no agency and that it is the sangat that is responsible for making you do something. And the sangat magically appears due to karma, in other words for reasons you have no control over.

You have completely removed personal effort and responsibility from the equation. Your philosophy is nothing but a set of tautological propositions: if you learn shastar vidiya, it is God's will; if you can't be bothered, it's God's will. How does that motivate you to do anything? And please don't answer, well, it's God's will if you get motivated or not.

I'm not disagreeing with your central premise that God is the author of everything, but it's so true that it is entirely meaningless and irrelevant to the discussion at hand.

K.

The advice you mentioned, requires someone to have energy, inspiration, motivation and the will to get things accomplished. If it was as simple as you mention why hasn't everybody done it already?

Because they haven't go the energy, inspiration, motivation and the will to get things accomplished. Thats why. The energy and motivation, the fact you are happy in life where does that all come from? It can come from external sources, such as your parents, friends, family, books magazines. Basicially the sangat. But what decides if you have good sangat or bad sangat? Who chooses the family you are going to be born into? Who decides all that. Ultimately we learn from whats around us. WE have to be in the right place at the right time. But who is the one who stages the events we see around us? Who is the one that looks after the Earth, to make sure it doesn't destroyed. Whether by, evil dictators, or natural disasters such as meteorites. Who is in charge of all that?

We need the right nutrition to be healthy. Who decides whether we are going to be born in poverty, or whether we are brought up into a wealthy family? Who is the one who gave you this human life? and has made sure it has been sustained from when you were in the womb.

You could say, "oh nature did it, my parents did it, I did it" Or you can realise that God is behind it all. And whatver you seek, can be obtained from him. Search within ourselves. Not saying things happen by magic, but basicially we are what our sangat is. So go to God and he will give us the right sangat.

That is how humans were designed. Babies learn by copying, and imitation. So you need the right people to copy. Make Guru the person you copy. Because Guru ji was blessed in every single way. What does Guru ji lack? nothing. We humans learn from example. So pick the right example while you still have a chance. you set the example.

All the good and bad thats happened to you, is because the naam simran you did in your past, including past lives. Naam is everything. It's simple more naam we do more rewards we get. This can be in the form of having, energy and the motivation to do things. You can say "i worked hard im so proud of myself" or you can say "God made me work hard, Thanks God" Because it is God who gives you the sangat to begin with. Why do you think gurbani always talks about in the sadh sangat, everything is obtained. Don't turn into pride, becasue then you start to think, "this person is faulty, this person doesn't know this or that" But remember the one who made them the way they are. But it was all because of their past devotion. So if you want the good things to happen to you. Devote yourself to God now. Be humble and lower yourself, admit you are weak before God, because then we surrender ourselves to God. That is like giving your head, which is what guru wants. It belongs to him anyway, so why take foolish pride in yourself.

Fateh.

I'm going to be intentionally harsh, but my comments are directed not at you personally but at your way of thinking which is the same passive resignation that I see in many Sikhs (and in many religious Indians in general).

Your entire post can be summed up in one sentence: God is the author of everything. OK, I agree. Now what?

Do you not see how utterly pointless your comment is? It is akin to pointing out some obvious thing and using that as an excuse to justify your idleness.

You can say: the sea is deep, so we should not bother to learn to swim because God will teach us Himself if He wants us to learn, and should we accidentally find ourselves drowning, it is up to God to make us float; Calculus is difficult to learn, but God Himself will teach me what I need for my exams, so I should not study lest I be accused of attempting to imitate God; I am overweight, but I won't make any effort to change my diet or to exercise because it is God's Hukam that I love the taste of samosay.

It is a completely passive and utterly useless philosophy because it can be applied to any situation.

You say that we are to sacrifice our heads to Guru Ji. Guru Ji is generous enough to graciously accept anything you give Him, but would you not want to offer the best sacrifice that you are capable of giving? Why offer the Guru a shapeless lump of clay when it is within your ability to sculpt it into a beautiful, unique and awe-inspiring peice of art?

K.

PS. Do some research on the differences between fatalism, determinism and compatabilism. They have been discussed from both a philosophical and theological perspective. As a really simple explanation (though from a Christian perspective), see here:

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Delphi/8449/sov.html

Fateh Jio!

What I feel a lot of Sikhs do not understand is that, at one time, the great Shaheeds and Sant-Sipahi of the Khalsa Panth were just like you and me. The only thing that differentiates us from them is their sharda, their naam abhyaas, their bhagti and their dedication to shastar vidiya.

So many present day Sikhs hero-worship great warriors like Baba Deep Singh, Banda Singh Bahadur, Akali Phoola Singh, Hari Singh Nalwa and others but why not aspire to be like them instead? What use is recounting their deeds and feeling proud that they are your ancestors if their example does not inspire you to get up and do something?

Baba Deep Singh used to do 101 Jap Ji Sahibs daily and still take time out to exercise, perfect his swordsmanship and horse-riding skills, and to fulfill his regular duties. How will his example inspire you? Will you increase the number of Jap Ji Sahibs you recite each day, perhaps just starting small with an extra ten for 40 days or a short period of time? Will you take up a heavy khanda and do 500 cuts in the 8 directions with each hand until the khanda feels like a light twig in your hands and your cuts are both accurate and quick? Will you take some time out from your busy schedule every day to remember Baba Deep Singh and actually ACT on his example?

Yes, you may never have the shakti to be decapitated and continue fighting regardless, but surely doing something is better than doing nothing - right?

Regards,

K.

Fateh!

Do these people never learn?

Someone has posted the relevant laws here:

http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?showtopic=44205

Let 5 Amritdhari tyar bar tyar go and explain the situation to the principal, taking a harcopy of the relevant legislastion.

K.

VJKK VJKF

Sikhs are being attacked from all communities in the Uk, muslims, blacks, whites, hindus etc You always hear that a sikh has got his butt kicked etc We were once the warrior nation that saved hindu women from mughals. Where has the warrior spitit gone? We can't even fight one to one, let alone sava lakh seh ek laroun! We don't train in martial arts that are real, we have no unity within our community, what the hell is going on? Every community walks all over us, we have become a laughing stock.

Don't you think it is time that we had a jatha of 20-30 guys in every city within the UK, who will be able to generate a force by sticking together if the need arised? Don't you think we need training in all gurdwaras around the country? Don't you think we need educating in our rich sikh history in every gudwara, not punjabi classes but sikh history ?

PM if you want to.

Sorry if i have offended anyone.

VJKK VJKF

Fateh!

Forget asking for help in setting up what you are suggesting, as you will not get any. Instead this is what you will get:

- one Sikh telling you that everything is maya and we should just sit in a cave meditating, and cover our eyes and ears when something terrible happens to the Sikh Panth,

- one Sikh will tell you that all you need to do is read some extra paat and God will take care of the rest. (I suppose, by extension, one ought not to study hard, work hard or do anything requiring any effort whatsoever,)

- one Sikh will tell you that we are not warriors anymore because we lack the genes that our forefathers had and we might as well just sit back and be content with being fat, weak and gutless because it is nature to blame, not ourselves (and so you need not feel guilty for your own cowardice),

- one Sikh will tell you not to take your destiny, and the destiny of the Panth, into your own hands as mummy and daddy, and our predominately white middle-class rulers, might get upset that you want self-determination and respect rather than acceptance.

And so on and so on.

I would recommend starting small. Start training yourself, then get together a few friends with whom to work out and to train martial arts. Get used to beating one another senseless (obviously take precautions - gloves, mats, etc), get used to bleeding, get acquainted with pain and learn how to think and act under pressure, learn to deal with the adrenalin dump you will experience when you are in a scary situation, and learn how not sweat the small things like seeing your own blood, getting your dastaar knocked off, and getting hit.

Any good contact martial art is fine to take up - muay thai, boxing, MMA. I would avoid any martial art that places more emphasis on forms practice or relies on mystical concepts like chi and dim mak to get the job done. Look into attending any Krav Maga seminars also as they place special emphasis on detecting danger and learning to act when you are under the kind of stress and fear that will make any unprepared person freeze mentally and physically.

Maybe consider a stint in the regular or territorial army, if you are interested in that sort of thing.

Then, when you are ready, you can put up your training videos on line to inspire others who may think as you do.

The one thing I will definitely recommend is to read a few books on sport psychology, as these go into a lot of depth on the mental and psychological skills possessed by top athletes and sportsman. They will teach you a great deal about how to motivate yourself, how to overcome plateaus in your training, how to deal with pain and injury, and how to remove mental blocks that prevent you from learning and excelling in physical pursuits.

Regards,

K.

Fateh.

Well, let's see if this guy turns out to be another "Sikh" with a Hindu name and claiming to be mentally ill.

Do they not have shaster before the Guru Granth Sahib anymore? Did the sangat believe that they were there only for show?

K.

^ Yep.

It was banned in India (according to sikhcoalition.org and other websites).

You may have to get someone to send it to you from abroad.

I think you can read some of it on questia.com, but you usually have to pay for membership before you can read the whole thing. See here:

http://www.questia.com/PM.qst?a=o&d=53310009

Regards,

K.