BhaiSukhSingh

can u plz provide link........couldnt find it

http://www.rajkaregakhalsa.net/audio/Prayers/Mool%20Mantar/Baba%20Nihal%20Singh%20Harianvela%20Wale%20-%20Mool%20Mantar%20Jaap.zip

Vaheguroo Jee.

'Chatanga' your actually right - I emailed someone (highly knowledgeable) and they bascially stated that having more than 1 wife was 'normal' - it was part of the K'Sha'tree culture - Guroo Sahib's had NO attachment to anything but as Guroo Sahib is Poora - by adopted the K'Sha'Tree rehnee behnee - Guroo Sahib ensured it was Pooraa. To "prove" that Guroo Gobind Singh Jee Has 3 Mehl - all three Maataa'vaa'n are still remembered today in the locations where they resided and left for SachKhand i.e. Mata Jeeto Jee's and Mata Sundar Kaur Jee's "Death" location (There are Gurdvarae there now) and Mata Sahib Kaur Jee who we are universally known and acknowledged.

Thanks for everyone that posted - Guroo Kripa you have blessed me with Giaan.

Please don't continue this debate - I think 'Singhner23' and 'Chatanga' have done right by 'agreeing to disagree.' Vaheguroo Jee. I'm just happy that I've benefitted from this. =)

Where do you purchase your tickets from? i used to buy it from a travel agent in my local area but it seems like he may be closing down so im just planning ahead, any links or phone numbers will be appreciated.

the mugs from southampton

Vaheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa Vaheguroo Jee Kee Fateh

kbIr mnu jwnY sB bwq jwnq hI Aaugnu krY ]

Kabeer, the mortal knows everything, and knowingly, he still makes mistakes

kwhy kI kuslwq hwiQ dIpu kUey prY ]216]

What good is a lamp in one`s hand, if he still falls into the well? ||216||

What do we achieve by sinning, then regretting, then sinning, then regretting - constantly and in the end only we are the depressed ones. Only we are the ones that sit there thinking 'Oh man, I shouldn't have done that.' Guroo Sahib will 'forgive' but we decrease the value of forgiveness - it almost becomes a game - I do bad, I feel guilty, I say sorry, Guroo Sahib forgives, I happy, I do bad, I feel guilty, I say sorry....and so on.

What we do is create a vicious cycle of birth and death within the absolute 8.4 million birth and death cycle - our birth is when we say 'That's it; next time I'm not going to do that - I swear'...We later die when we give in to sin (for whatever reason)... and the comings and goings continue in the cycle 'we' have created and due to these shortcomings we come and go in the absolute cycle (8.4 million cycle).

Our lives are and can be so much better - so much less depressed and actually happy and easier if we gave in to Guroo Sahib more than our mind's desires.

Many Gursikhs advise is that what we should all try to do is when the water or sin/desire tries to flood our mind and you feel a deep urge to commit that sin or make attempts to quench that desire. INSTANTLY put the water dam of Naam Simran up e.g. Start doing Simran, Gurbanee Path. Our mind WILL try to lure and make us come back on the subject of the sin/desire - but EVERY time DRAG our mind back on to Simran/Gurbani or anything else to do with Guroo Sahib/Sikhi. It will be hard and it will feel like it's a huge chore but Gur Prsaad eventually our mind will get to a stage where we are above these sins/desires - we'll see no value in them - we'll look back and think 'Oh Vaheguroo Jee: look where You have brought me to; I used to be in such a deep, dark and depressing pit..!' - In turn motivating you to Japp more Naam and living in a Gurmukh way simply because you don't want to fall back into that pit. Which is a beauitful mindset to be in:

nwnk ijn@ min Bau iqn@w min Bwau ]2]

O Nanak, those whose minds are filled with the Fear of God, have the love of God in their minds as well. ||2||

The choice is ours - if we want to rise above to a better Spiritual, mental and phyisical life or if we like our current circumstances.

Vaheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa Vaheguroo Jee Kee Fateh

That's actually not true. Guruji had only one wife, Mata Sundri Ji, and she bore all 4 of his sons

The wrong impression that the Guru had more than one wife was created by those writers who were ignorant of Punjabi culture. Later authors accepted those writings indicating more than one marriage of the Guru and presented it as a royal act. During those days kings, chiefs, and other important people usually had more than one wife as a symbol of their being great and superior to the common man. Guru Gobind Singh, being a true king, was justified in their eyes to have had more than one wife. This is actually incorrect. In Punjab, there are two and sometimes three big functions connected with marriage, i.e., engagement, wedding, and Muklawa. Big gatherings and singings are held at all these three functions. In many cases, the engagement was held as soon as the person had passed the infant stage. Even today engagements at 8 to 12 years of age are not uncommon in some interior parts of India. The wedding is performed a couple of years after the engagement. After the wedding, it takes another couple of years for the bride to move in with her in laws and live there. This is called Muklawa. A dowry and other gifts to the bride are usually given at this time of this ceremony to help her to establish a new home. Now, the wedding and Muklawa are performed on the same day and only when the partners are adults.

A big befitting function and other joyful activities were held at Anand Pur, according to custom, at the time of the engagement of the Guru. The bride, Mata Jeeto Ji, resided at Lahore, which was the capital of the Mughal rulers who were not on good terms with the Gurus. When the time for the marriage ceremony came, it was not considered desirable for the Guru to go to Lahore, along with the armed Sikhs in large numbers. Furthermore, it would involve a lot of traveling and huge expenses, in addition to the inconvenience to the Sangat, younger and old, who wished to witness the marriage of the Guru. Therefore, as mentioned in the Sikh chronicles, Lahore was 'brought' to Anand Pur Sahib for the marriage instead of the Guru going to Lahore. A scenic place a couple of miles to the north of Anand Pur was developed into a nice camp for the marriage. This place was named Guru Ka Lahore. Today, people are going to Anand Pur visit this place as well. The bride was brought to this place by her parents and the marria ge was celebrated with a very huge gathering attending the ceremony.

The two elaborate functions, one at the time of engagement and the other at the time of the marriage of the Guru, gave the outside observers the impression of two marriages. They had reason to assume this because a second name was also there, i.e., Mata Sundari Ji. After the marriage, there is a custom in the Panjab of giving a new affectionate name to the bride by her inlaws. Mata Jeeto Ji, because of her fine features and good looks, was named Sundari (beautiful) by the Guru's mother. The two names and two functions gave a basis for outsiders to believe that the Guru had two wives. In fact, the Guru had one wife with two names as explained above. Some historians even say that Guru Gobind Singh had a third wife, Mata Sahib Kaur. In 1699, the Guru asked her to put patasas (puffed sugar) in the water for preparing Amrit when he founded the Khalsa Panth. Whereas Guru Gobind Singh is recognized as the spiritual father of the Khalsa, Mata Sahib Kaur is recognized as the spiritual mother of the Khalsa. People not conversant with the Amrit ceremony mistakenly assume that Mata Sahib Kaur was the wife of Guru Gobind Singh. As Guru Gobind Singh is the spiritual but not the biological father of the Khalsa, Mata Sahib Devan is the spiritual mother of the Khalsa, Mata Sahib Devan is the spiritual mother of the Khalsa but not the wife of Guru Gobind Singh. From ignorance of Punjabi culture and the Amrit ceremony, some writers mistook these three names of the women in the life of Guru Gobind Singh as the names of his three wives. Another reason for this misunderstanding is that the parents of Mata Sahib Devan, as some Sikh chronicles have mentioned, had decided to marry her to Guru Gobind Singh. When the proposal was brought for discussion to Anandpur, the Guru had already been married. Therefore, the Guru said that he could not have another wife since he was already married. The dilemma before the parents of the girl was that, the proposal having become public, no Sikh would be willing to marry her. The Guru agreed for her to stay at Anand Pur but without accepting her as his wife. The question arose, as most women desire to have children, how could she have one without being married. The Guru told, "She will be the "mother" of a great son who will live forever and be known all over the world." The people understood the hidden meaning of his statement only after the Guru associated Mata Sahib Devan with preparing Amrit by bringing patasas. It is, therefore, out of ignorance that some writers consider Mata Sahib Devan as the worldly wife of Guru Gobind Singh.

(taken from http://www.sikh-hist...s/matajito.html)

Thanks for this - I have never been informed of this before. It makes sense. Vaheguroo Jee.

who was the great son she gave birth to, and who was her husband?

The Khalsa Panth.

Guroo Gobind Singh Jee are the Spiritual Father of the the Kaum and Mata Sahib Kaur Jee are the Spiritual Mother. Vaheguroo Jee.

Vaheguroo Jee - Sorry double post.

Some of the contacts of the Slideshow are bordering on 'racism and total attack on Islam'. Quotes taken from any scriptures or writings of religious prophets, out of context and without any understanding could lead you to taken a negative view of all faiths.

For example, taking quotes from the 'Dasam Granth', as many have done (i,e. Proff Darshan etc), without the full context and understanding of what Guru Gobind Singh ji is trying to say, you could come up with a very negative portrayl of 'women and Sikhi'. opposite to what is writen in the Guru Granth Sahib.

This is a very dangerous game to play.

There is a problem with grooming etc, all communities need to get together and tackle, including many in the Muslim community who are ashamed of the actions of a minority from their community (fanatics).

I can see where you are coming from - however tell me; is informing a community in a mature manner of the dangers it has and is facing a crime? Is that rascist? Like the last slide of the slideshow states that the slideshow is not intended to be used as or should not be used to offend Muslims.

It's funny, how Muslim individuals will "quote" fake and diliberately use Thukhs ('Lines') from Guroo Granth Sahib Jee or our history/principles OUT OF CONTEXT to brainwash and lure our sisters/brothers from their Sikhi and family - and no one raises a productvity "eyebrow" - now that some Gurmukh Piaaraa (WSA) has; Guroo Kirpa, put in the time and effort to inform the Khalsa Panth of the sources behind such Muslim individuals' actions and we're all proclaiming 'safety first! safety first!'...When will we regrow the same backbone our Jhjaaroo Singh/Singhneeyaa Soormae had in the 1970's and 80's? Vaheguroo Jee.

Bhula(n) Chuka(n) Dee Maafee

Maharaja Ranjit Singh had more then one wife loads of sardars did.. main thing was to increase population but we have been unable to keep our history. Look at all the mythology in the world and how people looked after nonsense we had the truth and we can't preserve it.

well ranjit singh also married a muslim? so r we allowed to do this also.

why does Dasam Pita narrate is Dasam Granth Sahib Jee

we cant do as what Guroo Gobind Singh Jee done as they was the light of Akal Purkh.

If Singhs and Kaurs r equal are we saying according to Sikhi that our mothers, sisters and daughters can have more than 1 husband?

Alot of people mix CULTURE and religion together and call it sikhi

(Previous post have been done by my sis)

ive had a look at it, it seems ok, but there is a factual error in it, about Sikhs which says that a Sikh is only allowed to have one wife. There is no such injunction on the Sikhs about this.

Also there is a painting of full frontal nudity, so this would not go down well in a gurdwara/sangat setting.

No..... Sikhs are allowed more than one wife there are no objections to having more than one just the cultural norm is to have one. Some of the Guru Ji's had more than 1 wife.

In reply to ‘Chatanga’ and ‘genie’:

Human's are prone to error; therefore mistakes could easily have been made.

However I cannot agree with your statement that implies; Sikhs are allowed to have more than one wife/husband.

Guroo Teg Bhadhur Jee Blessed Their Su'putar; our Pita Jee, Guroo Gobind Singh Jee with the following Hukamnama; in turn Guroo Gobind Singh Jee Has Blessed us with that very Hukam:

ਸੁਧ ਜਬ ਤੇ ਹਮ ਧਰੀ ਬਚਨ ਗੁਰ ਦਏ ਹਮਾਰੇ ॥

Sudhh Jab Thae Ham Dhharee Bachan Gur Dheae Hamarae ||

ਪੂਤ ਇਹੈ ਪ੍ਰਨ ਤੋਹਿ ਪ੍ਰਾਨ ਜਬ ਲਗ ਘਟ ਥਾਰੇ ॥

Pooth Eihai Pran Thohi Pran Jab Lag Ghatt Thharae ||

ਨਿਜ ਨਾਰੀ ਕੇ ਸੰਗ ਨੇਹ ਤੁਮ ਨਿੱਤ ਬਢੈਯਹੁ ॥

Nij Naree Kae Sang Naeh Thum Nth Badtaiyahu ||

ਪਰਨਾਰੀ ਕੀ ਸੇਜ ਭੂਲਿ ਸੁਪਨੇ ਹੂੰ ਨ ਜੈਯਹੁ ॥੫੧॥

Paranaree Kee Saej Bhool Supanae Hoon N Jaiyahu ||51||

Roughly (Guroo Sahib Baksh'daen) - Guroo Sahib Jee Have Given Hukam that as long as you (Poot = Putar Jee) have Praan (breath) in your body; consider it just and righteous to have a physical relationship (upon mutual consent) with your Naaree (Wife/Singhnee). HOWEVER; do NOT enter the bed of a Par-Naaree (another/another's Wife) EVEN in your dreams.

Clearly, Guroo Sahib Jee has Stated that a Singh/Singhnee should be loyal and committed in word, thought and deed to the Singh/Singhnee they had Anand Kaarj with for as long as they have breath in the body. Equally, if people are to argue based on context then subjects of divorce, death etc are all a different matter/debateable. However in this context (having more than one wife) your comments (with all due respect) are invalid.

Gursikhs have (well, we are supposed to have) a higher Jeevan than to live 'collecting' wives and husbands - the Gristee Jeevan is the most pure and most beautiful Jeevan any form could have or want (as Bhaee Gurdaas Singh Jee have Stated in Their Vaaraa(n). Arguing that "Some of the Guru Ji's had more than 1 wife" – (which I find difficult to believe or accept) is not only disrespectful to the morals and principles of Guroo Jee but will be harmful for the coming generations who will believe it's "ok" to have numerous relationships - impacting their Spiritual (most importantly), physical, mental and financial state of mind and circumstances.

Guroo Sahib Jee’s that YOU state may Have Had “more than one Wife” – did not have any physical relationships with anyone except their own Mehl (Wife/Singhnee) – for example: Mata Sahib Kaur Jee Who Have Devoted Their WHOLE Self to Guroo Gobind Singh Jee; upon Mata Jee’s Father’s and Mother’s request that our Daughter will ONLY marry You – Guroo Sahib Jee did Bachan that They were already married and They couldn’t marry Mata Sahib Deva(n) Jee – as per Guroo Sahib’s Bachan:

ibrQI kdy n hoveI jn kI Ardwis ]

birathhee kadhae n hovee jan kee aradhaas ||

The prayer of the Lord's humble servant is never offered in vain

Guroo Sahib Jee Said instead Mata Jee could Remain in Their Presence as part of the immediate family/household though that is all that it would ever be– eventually Mata Jee Became the Mother of Khalsa Panth – a HUGE Blessing for Them and ESPECIALLY Us.

As for the comment about how the slideshow contains scenes of nudity; first of all the slideshow does not necessarily have to be shown in the Darbaar Sahib or in a Sangat setting – Guroo Sahib’s Kirpa we have numerous locations where Sikhi camps/classes can be held for this ONE slideshow – with a mature approach to this ever engulfing subject – “risks/sacrifices” should be made. If needs be the slideshow can be shown separately to Singhs and Singhneeyaa; parents can be shown separately etc.

A humble beantee is that there is no point in ‘nit-picking’ or discarding such effort over such superficial aspects. There is a huge threat of our brothers and sisters who are raised in a westernised household who have no idea about their religion, culture, history and values – who are at the threshold of losing their own being, Sikhi, family and life. Surely this effort towards avoiding such a situation is one step closer to saving some young vulnerable girl?

Are these slideshows and programs being targeted to sisters already who adhere to Sikhism or those everyday average clubbing pubbing punjabi / Indian girls who arent following any faith at the moment?

Preaching to the religious sisters is pointless as they already know this stuff. The ones in danger are those who get caught up in western lifestyles and dont have knowledge, love or time for religion who often use their blackberries and iphones to chat to randoms. They are often targeted by predatory atheistic or Islam-fascist males as they are much easier prey than the one who has firm faith.

One tactic muslim guys use to get their girls to conform into behaving is often scaring them into believing ie using imagery of death to making them scared of their actions knowing they will have to answer to God after death. Another tactic is pretending to be a non-muslim guy chatting them up then exposing them then in effect scaring them not to trusting people on social networks so easily.

I agree with you – the purpose of such resources are intended for those families who are yet to take hold of Guroo Sahib’s Charan.

With it being a technological era – this slideshow or similar sources could possibly be forwarded through Blackberries/IPhones – Guroo Sahib Kirpa Karn Kae we need to reach out to our brothers and sisters without coming across too overbearing.

Regardless whether we have positive or negative comments about the slideshow - that isn't the point - the point is this a very valuable source of information that needs to be distributed to our community - after that they have the choice to make a judgement and choose how they live their life.

Bhul Chuk Maaf Jee.

Vaheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa Vaheguroo Jee Kee Fateh

(Apologies if this has already been posted)

Please take out time to look at the slideshow made by a very hardworking Gurmukh who has researched and compared Sikhism and Islam.

Their research and findings highlight women and the perceptions of the two faiths. Importantly it is a excellent, intelligent and well evidenced source of how and why Sikh girls are targeted by predatory forces.

Slideshow: http://www.slideshar...ware-sikh-women (39 slides)

We need to bring awareness to our own and other communities who are affected - so please forward (owners of the slideshow (WSA) encourage this) this slideshow.

This slideshow can possibly save a Sikh girl and our generations if it reaches out to someone during

• Sikhi camps/classes across the UK
  
• Copied onto disc and handed out
  
• Leaflets handed out
  
• Aired on Sikh Channel/Sangat TV
  

So please use such initiatives or inform those that can

Contact WSA (World Sikh Alliance) for more information:

wsa_news@yahoo.co.uk

(Slideshow can be downloaded on the actual link)

Vaheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa Vaheguroo Jee Kee Fateh

domestic india flights do you have to take off your sri sahib ?

Vaheguroo Jee.

Thank you all for your valuable replies. I believe 'Scooter' and 'Sikh_Soldier' - one/both of you may be right - I just wanted some form of written/audio confirmation and the details to this.

Can either of you find the sources. I know Guroo Kirpa it definitately exists - but I just cannot find it.

As for the Gurmukhs that are stating that Guroo Saab doesn't need anything from us etc - I agree with your 100% - Vaheguroo bless you - I just wanted to the information - thank you.

P.s. This is 'BhaiSukhSingh's' sister - using their account - sorry I needed this information and couldn't be asked to make an account. Vaheguroo Jee.

same reason so many channels have bhangra drinking half naked men and woman on there. These channel have not got got sikhi at its heart

Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh

Saad Sangat Ji

I can't remember now; (so hoping someone can remind me) but I think I read somewhere once that if you require a Ardaas to be fulfilled you should, do 5 Jap Ji Sahibs during Amritvela, go to the Gurdvara, do Deg di bheta and have the Granthi Singh do Ardaas before Guru Ji...? (All of this with Prem and Sharda)

The Ardaas is almost guaranteed if this is done. I think it's a It'haa'sak solution...?

I've tried looking on the Internet - but I can't find it - does anyone know what I'm talking about please?

If so, please state the full details of this "technique."

Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh

So when punjabi singers support political parties, u get offended. But when Sant Samaj ask for votes for Badal, everyone is quiet in order to not upset certain groups. LOL

EVERYONE?

Doesn't matter you will find loads of people who are in it for the money if you are talking about the khalistani ideology some say khalistanis have sold their sold. His own business, peoples own business, we should look at our selves what's the point of doing his nindya and taking his paap on our heads, let him pay for his paap. Loads of bhangra singers sleep with all sorts of people. The question is not about them but us, why do we leave our guru to see bhangra artists. You will notice singhs promote raves on the same day as a gurpurbh, but the question is the sikh youth who run away from the guru and towards bhangra. The issue is even in the raagis and kirtanis who can't connect with the youth and connect with elders because they have money and give it to them. The raagis who are illiterate, our own direction and where we are going. Is gurdwara for old people who don't have much time left in the world to go to or for people to grow up inside and find themselves and direction. The elders can't connect with the kids and pass down wisdom. A generation gap is getting wider and wider, people have domestic problems at home outside with family, family friends and friends. We need to go inside ourselves and find the simran.

If we use this tactic who will defend the panth, what would happen if Metahab Singh and Sukha Singh said the same thing bout mussa runger?

as we all know

Harbajan mann

FROM

TO

SHAME ON THIS COKE SNIFFING MUG.

Please could you not refer to Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji as a Holy Book. I'm sure you don't consider Nirankar's Bani as a book.

lolol if you actually go and click the link you will see its most likely gora whos asked this question. I dont think the original poster of the question will read ur post nor will he know who Nirankar is

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=AvKyzUf_yCmf8U5.ieQYDtAjzKIX;_ylv=3?qid=20120125153955AAWFcQ3

ANY TRUTH TO THIS ?

The examples you give highlight the very reason why we need to show a higher intellect. Trust me.....to any non-sikh thats ever seen a demonstration of Sikhs in Hyde Park....or anywhere else for that matter....the only impression he/she gains abous us is that we write banners and posters worse than primary school children have very very poor basic English language skills.

I'll give you an example of my point : Read archive news reports of London in the 1920's and 30's. The news reports, artcles, books and polite after dinner conversation were full of stories about the east end Jews and crime. Every robbery was blamed on the jewish men. Every prostitution ring was blamed on the jewish women. The Jews....who were very very poor, living in terrible slums decided that education was the key. They decided they would get so educated that they themselves would control the news, the magazines, the books, and polite after dinner conversation. To do that they had to ensure they became, as a community, not just very educated but THE most educated of all.

Lets just assume for one moment that Southall wasn't a sikh area but was a traditional jewish area, and a Jew was restricted from the public park simply for wearing what the law allows him to wear as a jew. Do you really, honestly, think he would not even know the basics of the history of his home town and thus not know how, in history, Norwood Green was the main parish and Southall just a small sub-parish of Norwood Green ? The man with intellect thinks outside the box. He is aware of everything around him. He would know that, given the historic significance of Norwood Green, there are very likely to be many many covenants and easements attached to that land. By now, he would have looked at the land register, written to the local authority and received a grovelling apology.

But thats them.

Alas, this is us.

we`ve done all this yet we get told to remove our sri sahib at a fair ground?

No. I think you're very wrong bruvs. I feel that Sikhism is unique in all world religions in that it actually requires all Sikhs to be very educated and literate. We should always be the ones that know more than the others.

I'll give you an example. The incident happened to the sister in Norwood Green. To the less eduacted, Norwood Green is just a small, slightly richer part of the bigger Southall. However, to the well read man or woman, historically Norwood Green is the big Parish under which the smaller irrelevent parish of Southall fell. Thus.....there is no doubt that there are some ancient covenants, easements and rights of way that apply to Norwood Green. Those covenants and easements ensure that the local authority via its proxy Bob Wilson have infringed the sister's rights.

Trust me.....its important to.let society know how savvy and educated the Sikhs are.

Khalsa jee, where has informing other people (religions, governments) got us. How many years has it been we`ve been going to hyde park? Recent meeting with all religious leaders including the pope the sri sahib was banned.

These are but a few examples where even though world knows about us they dont care.

where this from khalsa jee ?