Deletedkp

niddar da chella you are not Guru da chela. Decide who's boat your in, Satguru's or niddars. its obvious your niddars chela because the above rubbish i also used to hear niddar speak at his akhara. But because i have Gyaan i know exactly when he is talking rubbish. Don't call Sikhism Sanatam Dharma because sikhism is seperate.

Also please change your username more befitting to your idieology, stop using niddars tactics

So you have Gyann, Go on MR Gyann share you Gyann with us a? Why are you holding back?

Regarding superheroes, sure we should look up to them and recognise their achievements but I personally dont like to go as far as idolising them and saying that they are something that they were not. I'm sure that they themselves, if they are watching from up above wouldnt want to be idolised either.

The debate regarding western v eastern martial arts is a long raging debate. Empirically, exponents of both have been successful in warfare.

The term Shastar vidya simply means learning how to use weapons. Whether there was a martial art called by this name that actually existed is extremely doubtful. There is no reference or evidence of its existence. Therefore the idea that it was banned by the British and replaced by fencing just appears to be another manipulative myth created by Niddar Singh. Unless you can provide evidence or reference for its existence, then it would be safe to assume that you only hold your belief in this because of what Niddar Singh has said from his mouth.

On the flipside, I can give you lots of evidence of the existence of European fencing in the 19th Century, along with military manuals dating from the Middle Ages which show the techniques of European hand to hand combat, which were successfully used in duelling and on the battlefield. The Europeans did after all take over 80% of the known world, so they probably knew what they were talking about when it came to fighting. Here are a couple of manuals for you to have a look at:

http://www.thehaca.c...f/ColdSteel.pdf

http://www.thehaca.c...ldSwordPlay.pdf

Niddar Singh has deliberately tried to make a distinction between Shastar vidya and gatka. However, the rest of the world, including Nihang Dals, use the words interchangably and do not see the two as two separate things. There is no record of it whatsoever, and it has not been preserved anywhere else. Curiously though, Niddar's martial arts look rather suspiciously like the Escrima and Kali techinques that he used to learn in Wolverhampton before he grew his hair and appeared on the scene as the only existing Gurdev of a secret and ancient martial art that noone has heard of..... hmmm

I find it very interesting that everyone on this forum seems to be a martial arts expert,

“”Niddar Singh has deliberately tried to make a distinction between Shastar vidya and gatka. However, the rest of the world, including Nihang Dals, use the words interchangably and do not see the two as two separate things. There is no record of it whatsoever, and it has not been preserved anywhere else. Curiously though, Niddar's martial arts look rather suspiciously like the Escrima and Kali techinques that he used to learn in Wolverhampton before he grew his hair and appeared on the scene as the only existing Gurdev of a secret and ancient martial art that noone has heard of..... hmmm””

I have been a student of Kali (stick fighting ) for 5 years and there is no relation to Kali and SV. The foot work is completely different, when studying KALI, we work on the emphasis of a triangle 3 point foot work (the placing of your feet), there is no evidence of this within SV, they seem to have a advanced level of foot work and emphasis are based on more than 3 points. Having read other martial arts forums, many martial arts experts respect Niddar Singh and his art. Identifying the art as not mixed with any other martial art but a unique art. Why is it only on Sikh forums I read that Niddar has mixed it with other arts, when many making the statement have no knowledge of any martial arts or have very limited knowledge.

Many are quick to make this statement but will not explain how they have come to this conclusion. So pedrorizzo, can you please explain how you concluded the above statement?

If it wasn't for the American white Sikhs, the American government would have never recognised Sikh a separate religion. The Turban would not have the respect that it has today within the US. People on this forum portray them selfs as perfect Sikhs, who follow Rehat Maraydha.

We know that this is a load of rubbish, even the Rehat Maraydha. has been changed countless times, I'm no expert on Rehat Maraydha. But all you have to do is go the SGPC website and you can read countless contradictions.

The Definition of Sikh :

Any human being who faithfully believes in

1. 
   The Guru Granth Sahib
   
   I have just taken the first paragraph, definition of a Sikh. A Sikh should believe in Guru Granth Sahib, in Guru Granth Sahib where does it say a Sikh should follow these Rehat Maraydha.
   White Sikhs seen in the images don't really care about Rehat Maraydha, if they are not accepted by the Sikh's as Sikhs, same will happen to them as it has happened to all other sub-casts that were formed from the Sikh faith and know practise under an independent banner.
   Sikhs are shirking in number and Sikhs may not agree but if you take the SGPC Rehat Maraydha, point 4
   

I wouldn't trust everything you read on wikipedia mate. Someone who's a fan of hazoori ragi obviously thought it'd be a good idea to add that to his profile. The fact of the matter is that as he was born into a muslim mirasi family......it has been the tradition since the beginning of Sikhism for the muslim mirasis to be the singers of kirtan and shabads in the Gurdwaras. The tradition of Sikhs doing the singing in the Gurdwaras only really started after 1947 when most of the mirasis went to Pakistan.

That aside, the man was a true legend of Punjabi folk. No other Punjabi singer has or ever will come close. A real loss.....but with his heavy drinking it was always on the cards.

West London Singh,

It's a well known fact Kuldeep Manak changed his religion to a Sikh. You can go on the Web and just google the guy, you'll get countless evidence.

The guy was a fantastic singer and a great writer. His style of singing will always be remembered and the lyrics will never be forgotten. May be Punjabi youth of the west will never understand his lyrics because half of the youth have no clue on how to speak Punjabi. To all saying he was not a Sikh, well majority who keep the Sikh identity may not be considered a Sikh because of your attitude, so keep the negative opinions to yourself and have some respect.

Great man and great Kaylakaar...

Read the Mool Mantar, you get a fantastic idea of the experience you are looking for.

Beard trimming has been around since the Mughal raaj in India. Sikhs who worked for the Mughals as administrators were instructed to keep their beard a certain length as part of the uniform. Maharaja Sher Singh was known to trim his beard, not as we see it the modern era but to keep it a certain length.

So, coming back to the topic and 20th Century events, it is important because history is being read today and will be read 100/250/500/1000 years from here on.

Please enlighten us what is the other side of coin of this Quran burning?

What is the order side of coin of 1984 June Sikh Genocide?

What is the order side of coin of 1984 November Sikh Genocide?

What is the order side of coin of Babri Masjid Demolition?

What is the order side of coin of Godhra Genocide?

What is the order side of coin of Christian Genocide and burning of Churches in Orrisa, Kerela etc.?

Bhul Chuk Maaf.

WJKK WJKF.

Jassinghkhalsa,

I’m not here to give you a history lesson and give you an explanation of what is the other side of the story of the following you listed above. From reading a number of historical account and even having open discussion with historians, they will always say they are never 100% correct. By you reading this article and suggesting this is 100% correct of what has happened thousands of years ago is also false. As a person reading history can only make an opinion of the accounts they have just read, at the end of the day, what you are reading is from a third persons account and then you need take into consideration where did this person get his research and will it be bias? Also depending on the authors background. I will try to answer some of the points you have listed above.

Please enlighten us what is the other side of coin of this Quran burning?

• Regarding the Quran burning, you have only provided an image from a web site which dates back to 2010. This is not the complete story what has happened. We know in India, Gujrat area there have been many conflicts between Hindu and Muslims. Muslims have also burnt Hindu scriptures. ( I aplogise but the forum wont allow me to post the link)
  

What is the order side of coin of 1984 June Sikh Genocide? & What is the order side of coin of 1984 November Sikh Genocide?

• Firstly I don’t agree with the Sikh genocide regarding 1984 and the Indian government made a tactical mistake. We would have to investigate, why the Indian government made the decision to attack the Golden temple in the first place that led to the domino effect to the Sikh riots in Delhi. Many Sikhs will say it was only Hindu’s who contributed to the mass killing but there are some accounts that are being released that state many Sikhs were also involved to gain money and land. Observing the accounts of the Indian people, during that time mass majority of the Indians were upset with the assassination of their leader. Many Indians see Indra Gandhi as a great leader and a leader that turned India into a self sufficient country without the aid from the West. Value of the Indian Rupee was 15.00 to £1.00, economically if India continued on this path in 15 years they were looking like a super power that would compete with the likes of USA and Europe. So they will try to justify the events by these statements, regarding Human rights its wrong. Truthfully they cannot justify such event. (I’m being bias regarding this last statement)
  

Hope you get the idea of what I’m suggesting, even in the British media they will use propaganda to portray the enemy as evil e.g. the war with Iraq and the weapons of mass destruction. We know now, no weapons were found and the reason behind the war was none. Maybe more information will come out in the near future regarding 1984 and we can finally put this to rest.

1000 years later there won't be any evidence on 1984, 1992, 2002. Please read the on line books on Ambedkar.org, they are not articles, those books contain real concrete evidences, and the books are written by some very senior historians.

And I just don't refer to Ambedkar's and his disciples history, the history written by Fa-Hein and Huein-Tseng (Chinese travellers) can be mapped to see what is true or lie ...

I have no such doubt about authenticity behind the accounts written by the historians but you as a person reading these accounts would have to take into consideration the other side of the story. A coin has two sides each side tells a different story. Hindus believe Mahatma Buddh was incarnation of Vishnu (in Hindu mythology Vishnu stands for the ultimate truth), by going on this fact alone that I have just mentioned these Historians are not completely 100% true because who would want to destroy their own messiah. OK, lets go back to second world war, there are many historical accounts that praise Hitler and his regime and there are many Historical accounts that praise the British & it's Allies and destroying of the Nazi regime. Either of the two historical accounts are not going to 100% accurate but by reading them both, as an individual you can have an opinion but by saying this is 100% true, it never will be unless you witnessed it yourself.

Please do not get offended by what I say and question me further with something you don’t agree with , this is a discussion forum.

Guru fathey

@ JasSinghKhalsa

Very good articles but it's not 100 % evidence this is what happened, it's someone’s opinion. There are so many Sikh historians who have written a different account to Sikh history that main stream Sikhs do not agree with. For e.g. Badha Bahdhur, some Sikhs believe he never took amrit and should not be call Badha Singh Bahadur. There are accounts of Bandha Bahadhur killing thousands of innocent Muslims but in the main stream we believe this is not true. Everything is not black and white specially history some accounts are very bias, we as the reader should take that into consideration.

^ That sums it up.

That sums up what? We are 1 panth and that come under the umbrella of Akal thakat?

Well, not doing the best of jobs are they, how many of the smaller sects have split away from this 1 panth because they have slightly diffrent ways of practising the Sikh faith. In my opnion even the Goray Sikhs of America will have a diffrent apprach to the Sikh faith and will probably spilt from the main stream. The Panth you are mentioning is getting smaller by the day, you need accept that SIkhs are only by name.

very vaild question....certain paats are done at certain times to maximise the phal

kpull - why do you think we do nitnem preferably in the morning at amrit vela?

i do reharaas when the sun starts to set...thats the way I’ve always done it.

Firstly, I think path can be done at any time as mentioned by SantLUCIFER, secondly there is no fix time when a particular path should be recited.

There seems to be a contradiction of beliefs, we say that we do not practise any rituals but we still practice same rituals e.g. what time do to path.

When I took Amrit, I was advised by panj pyaaray to do path any time of the day, there was no particular rule regarding time. If I did miss a path it wasn’t the end of the world and just do Simran.

Regarding Nitnem, I did it when I woke up, there were many times when I did miss it because of work and other commitments. Like I have mentioned above, it wasn't the end of the world.

Many people think path is suppose to give some magical powers but that’s is so untrue. Path is there to be recited to take the essence of the teaching our Guru's and use those teachings in our practical life’s. If you just going to recite path as your ritual every morning or in the evening then you no different to who is practising rituals.

To the poster who questioned the forum with his question, I’m sorry if I have offended you.

@ Kphull... What?

I did not know my question was a Islamic one... how did you know? are we sure you are not ?

@ Kphull... What?

I did not know my question was a Islamic one... how did you know? are we sure you are not ? as Im a true son of Guruji...

@ Kaljugi - I did it around 6pm.... but was not sure if it was correct.. as sunset around 4.30pm..

Thanks all for your help...

Well, that’s for you to find out?

So you call yourself a son of Guru ji but you need to ask people on the forums on what time you need to pray?

And they say the future of the Sikh religion is within the young. Debatable

It

Any building in which Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee resides is a Gurdwara/Gurughar, regardless of what we decide to label it is.

And as such, it is every Sikhs duty to ensure that it adheres to the Akal Takht and its sandeshs, hukamnamas, gurmatas etc.These are Panthic decisions and we as a Panth should obey it.

By the way, what is it your are trying to achieve or get at here? What problems is there in a Sikh/Sikh institution adhering to Akal Takht?

Just a query, nothing more. Don't need to be paranoid.

So you have mentioned about Guru Granth Sahaib, how about if you have it on Electronic media?

Akal takht sahib is our Supreme body as stated by Tera & pedrorizzo. We have to folllow its sandesh, hukamnama, gurmata and so on regardless of our set of opinions. Akal takht sahib doesn't worry nor control anything related to financial matters. Their main and only purpose is to uphold rehat maryada in sikh kaum and it is our supreme court for matters.

SGPC is our panthic body made during British rule in order to control historical Sikh Gurdwara Sahibs. SGPC is the one who controls money in and out of gurdwaras. SGPC appoint their own managers posted at historical gurdwaras around india. They gather funds from these gurughars and take care of langar, bills related to electricity and so on. Sadly they are with akali dal badal party. They are not meant to align with any party nor any political party to control sgpc.

Everybody knows that legally Sri Akal Takht Sahib do not have control of gurughars outside of india. It is the respect that we have towards Sri Akal Takht Sahib founded by Guru Sahib jee who told us to follow all hukamnamas coming out of sri Akal Takht Sahib. Akal takht barely interfere in the workings of gurdwara sahib outside of India. If any gurdwara sahib says that they don't care about sri akal takht is not gurdwara sahib itself and sangat will avoid that gurdwara at all cost.

BTW, Culture and religion should be strictly kept aside. It is in western culture that majority are happy to see elders in those old age/retired communities or assisted living at the time when their parents needed them the most.. But do we sikhs believe in that?? Nope.. totally against of what our guru sahib jee said... take care of your elders.

Akal Takht sahib is the probably one of the most liberal easy going religious structure system in this world. I am not sure why we should be afraid standing under the nishaan sahib of sri akal takht sahib.

Thank you for your answer.

So if you are not labelling the premises as a Gurdwara, Akal Takht or SGPC have no say in how the premises and the committee functions.

Your question seems Islamic like. Have you asked your local Imaam?

I do understand about the authorial role of Akal Thakat but why should we need such body to have a say on what we do in the west. There is cultural differences and laws within the west are very different too.

For.e.g. If the local Sikh community in my town decided to open a Gurdwara and all funding has come from the local community, what right does Akal Thakat have.

Ok, so I agree if it’s a Gurdwara and you would have to follow Akal Thakat, if the local community didn’t want follow the Akal Thakat, can you just rename a Gurudwara to a community centre or just call it Akaal-Mandhir?

Does Akal takat provide funding to a Gurudwara, if not what say does Akal takat have over the daily running's of a Gurudwara?

Can a Gurudwara run independently without any involvement from the political Sikh bodies?

E.g SGPC, Akal Thakat etc

Hello Everyone,

It surprise to see everyone calling him a pervert, but at least he's not hiding behind any religious curtain. Well as Sikhs all you have to do is look at Taksal, its full perverts, children being molested. We all know what's happening there.

How comes no one mentions that on this forum?

Thanks for making me smile. I needed it :-))

on serious note, we do have a bilogical clock which wakes us between 2-5am, but we ignore it :-)

Sorry i have to disagree with you. Your bilogical clock can be set at any time does not have to be between 2-5 am. Depends on how much sleep your body gets, should be between 7 to 8 hours. So go to bed early and wake up early, safest way possible.

amritvela troubles,

can someone pls do this maha seva

plz

plz

plz

plz

plz msg me if poss.

You are joking, aren't you ?????? hahahaha!!!!!!!

WARNING - If you intend to go watch this film, the following will totally ruin the plot for you so please dont read it (not the best start to a post but there u go!)

If you are still reading then its your own fault!

Ok somebody recommended this film to me so I went to watch it and was very impressed. The story line is as follows (last chance to turn back!):

There was a war (nucleur war?) which took place and resulted in a huge hole opening up in the ozone layer, which caused the sun and its rays to destroy and burn up much of the earth. The majority of the people and most of the earths resources were destroyed. What is left is a broken society with people scrapping and fightin over the most basic of needs, one of the most valuable being water. The world is run by localised criminals who dominate over people using force and by manipulating what resources are left. Guns and weapons are few and rare, fuel, electricity and other such things are also rare. In general its a pretty bad state of affairs ... and also very similar to the kind of things which Gursikhs tell us are due to happen.

Into all of this mess steps a man called Eli who carries a book (the bible). Eli is a tough guy who reads his bible daily and has a mission from God. We learn from Eli that after the war, many people blamed the bible (and other religious texts) as being the cause of the war. And therefore there was a massive concerted effort to burn every single copy of the bible (and other texts). A voice however led him to what is the last bible on earth and told him to travel to the west until he finds where it needs to be.

Along the way a local crime lord is looking for a copy of the bible. Because he knows that in a world of desperation, of no hope, no happiness, no god, the WORD OF GOD would bring people to him, would give people a chance, would ultimately give him power. Those looking for God would flock to him, looking for the only remaining word of god on the planet. Then theres fights trying to recover the bible, and denzel kicks the heck out of the baddies (great fight scenes!). Eventually the baddy gets the bible, but cant read it beacuse its in braille, and we find out that Eli was actually blind and had been guided across the country and protected throughout by god. Eli on loosing the bible, comments that 'by protecting the bible for so long he almost forgot to practice what it taught him'. He leaves the bible with the bad guys and carries on west. Here he meets some survivors and from memory reads out the bible which he has stored in his mind, word for word, page for page. He dies in the end after this task which was given to him by god. The bad guy who now has the physical bible still cant read it cus its in braille.

Overall great film, now for why I am mentioning this on a sikh forum.

Couple of points as follows:

1) End of the world/society as we know it. This is bound to happen at one point as even previous societies and world orders have ended. In the nucleur age and with countries like Iran going solo, it is likely that at some point some nut job may just press the button and its game over. If not via nucleur threat, then it may be via economic and resource wars, wars over fuel, food, repaying of debt, terrorism etc. It may be natural, due to environmental issues. Given current world politics, one would be thinking that man made disaster/war is most likely. The film suggests that people may view religion as cause behind this. Today there are many many people who hold same view. If Iran lets off a bomb, then many will view this as Islam vs Christian/Jewish war. Internationally there is a movement growing against religion case in point being France. In the Economist there was an article which reported that "Freedom" was lower now then it had been 10 years ago. This is a measure of various freedoms across the world - not a good sign, we seem to be going backwards! If war goes off, religion will be made culprit, could this lead to destruction of religious items, texts, buildings etc?

2) Gursikhs have spoken about how Sikhs (and i guess other relgious groups) will have to go into hiding again as a result of persecution. Others have spoken about Gurbani dissapearing. Perhaps this is through the deliberate destruction?

3) The most important point .... Eli kept the bible alive by reading it daily and thus memorising the entire bible, and then living (as best he could) by what it taught him. Can we Sikhs, who lay so much importance in the reading of Gurbani say that we do this? In the face of presecution of religion, it is not just the soldier that must survive, it is knowledge of gurbani. We have never wavered when massacred or put our heads down after genocide, we have survived and stood strong. When we seem to waver is when we forget gurbani or when gurbani is challenged and taken away from us. To survive the coming times, it is vital to learn, read, singh and memorise Gurbani.

Some rehat namas even say that a Sikh must have japji sahib memorised. Do we all know japji sahib? I can tell you that I have met a number of non amritdharis girls and boys who despite living typical punjabi lives, still do japji sahib daily and know it off by heart (cant even read gurmukhi, but have learnt it from transliteration). We should feel some sharam and at same time inspiration.

So without going on even more ... please please let us all learn and memorise gurbani. Its a weird thing, but thats what hollywood and denzel washington reminded me today!

I agree with mojority of the issues you have mentioned here. But the true question is by you memorising the japji sahib, what are you to gain from it if you are not going to adopt the meaning into your life.

Personally, I believe, religion is created to control the masses. Even in Islam, you speak to some of extremely rich Arabs. They do not even follow Islam.

All wars are created by one reason "religion". Even the Sikh religion is going the same way, control the masses and hopefully we will get our own way.

Bhagavad Gita also has very similar teachings about science of Self Realisation. When compared to Sri Adh Granth, you see a number of similarities or in my opinion very alike in spiritual teaching.

You sound like a taliban