TheVampire

I would like to attend the lobby.

Anybody going from the Bham/Wolves area and can provide transport details.

I am not having success contacting the Sikh Federation.

I saw some photographs on Ekta.com re previous sikh camps.

I can clearly see yoga or elements of yoga being practiced.

Sikh camps should not be promoting such activities.

All very good, but will they announce on stage that they will

be no more Raresahib, Nanaksar, Taksal, AKJ etc, but just Sikhi.

NO THIS, NO THAT, SIRF SIKH.

I would like to add my congratulations.

I have just read your interview and i am inspired by your enthusiasm for Sikhi.

Well done and praise to Vaheguru for blessing you.

I went to West Bromwich.

Jam packed and had to sit in the langar hall.

Will be at Wolves on Sun and Mon.

Come if you can.

There are two ways of looking at this.

Those who propogate the peaceful solution, quote Guru Granth Sahib Ji which states that God resides in everyone. One that is God enlightened sees him even in enemies.

Therefore do nothing.

Those that espouse a violent reaction, can quote the examples of Guru Gobind Singh ji and other Singhs, who not only protect people of other religions, but also those of one's own religion.

What i am trying to say is that each viewpoint can be backed up by Sikh teaching.

Who is wrong and who is right?

I do not know.

What is going to happen is going to happen.

Just like to echo some of the sentiments.

I know some of the Sangat of Tividale Gurdwara.

Real seva and feeling for the quam and the shaheeds.

Please come and meet this hard core sangat :doh:

Im sure ur right virji!

With my petit knowledge... Guru Gobind Singh ji was a saint-soldier.

It's first a saint and then a soldier.

And a saint always handles his situation with compassion, weather it be a physical or mental struggle.

"You hurt me, I hate YOU."    That is the durmat - evil

wisdom"

&

" ITs easy to save your followers, bu the true saint will save his

enemies too.  Guru arjun dev ji says 'i have made the whole world int my

friend."  If the Guru ji never hated the Moghuls for torturing him for 5

days and nights, then he wouldnt want His Sikhs to carry hate in their

hearts either."

-says it all.

Something more written by the same GurMukh:

WORK ON THE INSIDE FIRST.  REMEMBER GURU GOBIND SINGH JI SAID BECOME

SANT-SIPAHEE ..SAINT-WARRIOR, MEANS BECOME SAINT FIRST, THEN WARRIOR.

TROUBLE IS EVERYONE RUSHES INTO SIKHI AND WANTS TO BE A WARRIOR.  IF U WANT

THE BEST ADVICE FROM ME  WORK ON BEING SANT FIRST ..MEANS MAKING YOUR HEART

PURE ENOUGH FOR GOD TO COME AND HAVE UNION WITH YOU.  THEN LET GOD MAKE

YOU INTO WARRIOR OR WHATEVER HE WANTS YOU TO DO IN THE WORLD.

and

NOW YOU KNOW WHY BANI SAYS THIS PATH IS SHARPER THAN A SWORD AND FINER

THAN A HAIR, THIS IS THE PATH OF SAINTS.  IF YOU WANT TO BE WITH GOD ,

THEN YOU HAE TO EAT IRON ..MEANS YOU HAVE TO CONQUOR THE MOST DIFFICULT

MONSTER OF THEM ALL..UR OWN MIND, AND ITS ATTITUDES, ITS RESISTANCE TO

CHANGE, ITS NEGATIVITY ETC.

and

GURU GOBIND SINGH JI DIDNT SAY THAT "ONLY

THOSE WHO LOVE GOD ATTAINS HIM" FOR NOTHING.  IT IS ABSOLUTE TRUTH.    BE

A LOVER OF GOD, NOT A NARROW MINDED RELGIOUS HATEFUL PERSON.

and

DONT WORRY ABOUT YOUR ENEMIES OR GETTING JUSTICE ETC

..BANI SAYS EVERYONE HAS GOT THEIR OWN FATE.  YOUR JOB IS FINISH YOU

SPIRITUAL JOURNEY, NOT TO FIGHT EVERYONE AROUND YOU.

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This is where my confusion reigns.

On the one hand, 'God resides everywhere, in every person'.

Yet it is right to use violence against people when all other means have failed.

It is also stated that 'one does not do anything on one's own, it is all the play of God'. 'As long as he thinks he is the doer, he keeps on visiting the womb of mother. 'As long as he makes foes and friends, his mind to poise would never lend'.

GurFateh..

http://www.ektaone.com/PHOTOS/2005/hydepar..._120605_094.htm

http://www.ektaone.com/PHOTOS/2005/hydepar..._120605_470.htm 

http://www.ektaone.com/PHOTOS/2005/hydepar..._120605_461.htm 

Seeing these pictures made this mind think... UK pyaare GurSikhs??  

A Gurmukh ji once wrote:

I AM JUST MAKING YOU THINK ABOUT THINGS A BIT DEEPER THAN THE AVERAGE

JOE, ESPECIALLY WHEN THE RESULTANT EMOTION IS NEGATIVE EG OUTRAGE.  LET

THAT BE YOUR JUDGE.  AFTER YOU HAVE READ ANYTINH ON RELIGION OR HEARD

ANYTHING ABOUT RELIGION AND THEN APPLIED UR LOGIC TO A NEW SITUATION, IF YOU

END UP IN A NEGATIVE STATE OF MIND..THEN IT TELLS U UR LOGIC WAS WRONG. THEN U HAVE NOT COMPREHENDED THE LOVE OF GOD.

BECAUSE GOD IS LOVE AND TRUE WISDOM WILL LEAD YOUR MIND INTO THE HOUSE OF

LOVE, EVEN FOR YOUR ENEMIES.  BANI SAYS KISS THE FEET OF THE ONES WHO BEAT

YOU WITH FISTS....ULTIMATE LOVE AND COMPASSION.

Was really astonished by these pictures. Being a learner of sikhi, I asked for guidance from the same Gurmukh.

GurMukh ji:

about the pictures...what feeling did you get from them?  what sense did

you get about the state of mind of the people in the pictures?  Personally

i saw faces with no spiritual light on them, no light of God radiating from

their hearts.  Which was highlighted by the fact of burning the flag ..not

that i care for any particular nationality as that is also another man-made

barrier, and God has no barriers.  Butthe act of burning the flag was to

show how much they hate the Indian Government for killing 25000 Sikhs.

Basic pyschology is "you hurt me, I hate YOU."    That is the durmat - evil

wisdom generated by the mind of someone who has no understanding of God.

So even though they are going under the banner of Sikhism, but following a

totally non-sikh wisdom "you hurt me, I hate you."

And the reason they have no light of God shining on their face, is because

that one phrase has become deeply embeded in their subsconscious over the

last 20 years.  It has drained their divine energy , their life force -

their amrit.      They are totally unaware they are just playnig out their

karma  like actors in a story following the script.  If they had had

Gurprasad - Guru's grace upon them, if God had looked down upon them and

wanted to release them outof their mental anguish, they would have realised

a higher consciousness way to deal with this situation.  They would have

seen they could apply gurbani to this situation, they would have not let

ego and anger burn their mind and body, and then leading them to burn the

flags.

Look at the Dalai Lama, he is the spiritual leader of the tibetans.  In

1959 China annexed Tibet and suffered no less than Sikhs in India over the

last 25 years.  Many monks escaped to India like Dalai Lama.  Many other

monks were tortured and killed.  Chinese army knew monks were the leaders

and by destroying them all resistance would be killed off - similar to what

happened in punjab.  But how have they responded compared to how these

sikhs are responding?  Their first and  highest belief is COMPASSION.  One

monk was tortured with a cattleprod giving him electric shocks in mouth and

private parts, he managed to escape and when Dalai Lama asked him what was

the greates danger you faced he replied ,"I almost lost my compassion for

the Chinese."

Gurbani teaches the same philosphy , that religion is the son of compassion

..dharam daya ka pooth.  Compassion has to come first , especially for you

enemy.  ITs easy to save your followers, bu the true saint will save his

enemies too.  Guru arjun dev ji says 'i have made the whole world int my

friend."  If the Guru ji never hated the Moghuls for torturing him for 5

days and nights, then he wouldnt want His Sikhs to carry hate in their

hearts either.

What Sikhs havent realised is that its not India army and Indian Governemt

to blame.  Its all to do with Karma.  Its Gods law, everything that

happened upto this very moment was all under God's HUKAM , bani says not

even one leaf moves without God willing it.  Guru Arjun Dev ji wrote "Dont

blame anyone for what is happening, accept that you are reaping what you

have sown."    IT means that on a personal level each one ofose killed in

Punjab had karma to repay with their killers, and those two soul ...killer

and killed will carry on travelling thru time and space until the debt is

cancelled.  And now 20 years later, the ones who are protesting viloently

have sown hate into their heart and are reaping violence as the crop.  When

the vilounce in their mind spills over into viloent actions against another

soul, then they have made karma with that soul for their future lifetimes.

And all the karma they are generating will keep them in the cycle of birth

and death even more.

If you look at how the Budhists have bounced back after 1959 its

incredible.  Their philosphy has left Tibet, entered India, gone to USA and

around the world they have millions of western followers.  Films have been

made inhollywood of their struggle.  Peacefule protests continue, public

support is for them.  Everyone sees china as the oppressor, and budhists

bas being humble kind and caring people.

Look at the sikh protest, and which member of the general public will want

to give their support to people who burn flags, who are angry , bitter and

full of hate?  Infact it makes outiseders think ..hey you sikhs really are

quite violent, perhaps you were terroists like the indian government?

In this day and age pen i smightier than the sword, love and comapssion is

greater than angry and viloence.  Peaceful protest spreading the fragrance

of gurbani, like the dalai lama does, is better than burning flags.

dustofurfeet!

-keep smiling-

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I think this bring to question the whole philosophy of Sikhism.

Why did not Guru Gobind Singh Ji not show compassion to the Moghals, the hill rajas and others who he fought.

Why did he proclaim it is right to pick up the sword when all other peaceful means have failed?

Why not keep showing compassion and die for this compassion.

Is it permissable to use violence for Sikhs or not?

No wonder Sikhism is so disperate and factional.

One group believes it is right us use/display violence.

Another views it as wrong and proclaims that compassion should be shown at all times.

According to the above post, the impression is created that violence is not called for in any situation.

Nidhi, maybe Guru Gobind Singh Ji and the other 'violent' Gursikhs got it wrong?

AWESOME :doh:

  :doh:   :wub:   :doh:   :doh:   :doh:

103230[/snapback]

I'll attend!

Why is it in the photos of those participating in the burning of flags and that indira model their faces have been blurred.

In case their mum's are on the Net :-)

103385[/snapback]

I was near the front of the march.

It was really awesome when we sat down and did the Chaupai paath.

To see young Sikhs, teenagers doing the paath was special.

Regarding the burning of the dummy.

A policeman warned the Sikh youths not to do it, that they were being filmed on CCTV, so i presume it must have been illegal. But the Singh's did it anyway. That is why the photo's have most probably been shaded.

My personal and humble opinion was that it was perfectly acceptable.

To think that the Indian gov't was responsible for so much, a little burning of Indira will have sent a message to the Indian gov't and population.

I must confess i took part in the 'Indra <admin-profanity filter activated> slogan'.

With hindsight i do regret it, but i did not hear the paath that was being recited by the panj pyare. But i do recall that similar slogans were said at the original 1984 march, my mum told me. Nowadays, flag burning , dummy burning are common features of many demonstrations by different groups.

Nobody complained about the jumping on the Saddam statue in Baghdad.

Numerous dummies of Blair and Bush have been degraded.

Indeed very sad, Giani Ji had tremendous knowledge and shall be greatly missed.

I will be attending the meeting.

The Hindu's attempt to undermine the Sikhs at every opportunity.

They want the Sikh youth's of Panjab to lose their faith and they are succeeding.

An independent homeland for Sikhs is the only option.

Remember the independence movement of India was propelled by those who resided

in the West - Ghadar Party.

Can anybody tell me if the AKJ offer Kirtan lessons or do they have affiliated

Gurdwara's in the Midlands region of the UK?

Thanks

A lot of what is written is based on racist tendencies.

At football matches one witnesses window breaking virtually every week,

but nothing is made of it.

However one or two Sikhs break windows and you have the whole British press turn

against the community.

'Freedom of Speech' only matters when it suits the establishment.

Here is a copy of my email that was printed on the BBC Birmingham website,

'Freedom of speech' is very precious, but it has responsibilities. Society is aware of such responsibilities, for example, racist marches by the BNP are banned. However it seems that 'freedom of speech' only applies when it suits the establishment. Cast your mind back a few years. Glenn Hoddle was castigated and ultimately lost the England manager's job, for professing that he believed in karma. Where was 'freedom of speech' at the time? Religion is a centre of daily life for Sikhs. Daily life revolves around the faith. The Gurdwara is the residence of the holy Guru Granth Sahib, the word of God. Any depiction of immoral activity which associated with the Guru Granth Sahib, will not be tolerated. I emphasise, Sikhs were not opposed to the contents of the play. Only it's setting, yet the Rep were and are so stubbourn that they would not make this simple change.

Second theatre cancels Sikh play

09:50am 22nd December 2004

A theatre boss has abandoned his plans to stage a controversial play that another venue pulled because of violent protests.

Neal Foster, the actor-manager of the Birmingham Stage Company, offered to put on Bezhti after the Birmingham Repertory Theatre cancelled further shows on Monday.

Sikh protesters demonstrating against the play's depiction of rape and murder in a fictional temple were involved in disturbances at the venue on Saturday.

Bosses decided to abandon future performances on safety grounds because faith leaders said they could not ensure there would not be a repeat of the violence.

Mr Foster said he, too, was pulling out following a request by the play's author, Gurpreet Kaur Bhatti.

He said: "The plan I came up with was to invite theatres across the country to read the play and discuss it afterwards, to have a debate so there was more understanding about the whole issue.

"I was proceeding with these plans until I received a request from the author."

The request was made because of the "increased threats" to her safety, said Mr Foster, who also said he had received several threatening phone calls.

It has been reported that Ms Kaur Bhatti is in hiding after receiving death threats because of the play's subject matter, which Sikhs claim demeans their religion.

Sikh community leaders in Birmingham and elsewhere welcomed the Rep's decision to cancel the three-week run because of the offence they believed it caused to their faith. But it was criticised in many quarters as effectively censorship and the stifling of free speech.

(

Daily Mail)

If the new theatre company will not withdraw the setting of the Gurdwara,]

we will continue our fight.

The Gurdwara is the residence of The Guru.

We must not let it be tarnished by the filth which resides in the mind of Gorapreet Batty.

Chardi Kala Sikhs gave their lives for the Guru.

I can imagine thousands of Sikhs protesting and the British public will

see what it is like to upset Sikhs of Vaheguru.

The play has just begun....