GillAUS

Getting back onto the topic, it would be a shame for there to be discrimination in any of the Nihang Dals, but it's not surpising considering the scourge of the caste system permeates most things in the sub-continent, regardless of religion.

So basically we are no different from the others?

We are different because we actually have the tools to help ourselves. These tools are the Gurus' teachings, which call for the abolishment of such discrimination.

However, we are the same as others in that instead of realising the truth, we fall prey to cultural/social practices that condone this discrimination.

Also posted this in another thread, but nevertheless, it's also relevant here.

Just something interesting for other forum members to realise that this isn't just a UK/European problem, but a global one:

http://www.smh.com.au/national/the-rise-an...90328-9eri.html

Something interesting for other forum members to realise that this isn't just a UK/European problem, but a global one:

http://www.smh.com.au/national/the-rise-an...90328-9eri.html

If people continue to live in denial and harp on about supposed 'Islamophobia', we might as well sit back and let them roll over us.

Can someone please explain to me why British media hate Sikhs and always take Muslims side all the time?

Muslims have infiltrated the media, so that if anything is said about muslims it is deemed as Islamaphobia.

The British media is very careful not to mention Pakistani youths, for example there would be an attack on a white youth, the headline would be "ASIAN YOUTH ATTACK WHITE!", however in most cases that would be mean Pakistani Muslim youths, but the media will use the term "Asian", which means all South Asians in the UK, so all Indians whether Sikh or Hindu are tarred with the same brush.

Similarly here In Australia, 'Male of Middle-Eastern Appearence' = Lebanese Muslim. These guys are basically the Pakis of Australia (until more Pakis arrive here, which hopefully they WONT).

Can anyone see the common denominator here? .....

I swear at 22 secs I hear someone shout "free Khalistan" or is that just me listening to my inner voice (Gollum Gollum )

I thought I heard that too, but realised it was a 'Free Palestine'.

I have observed that of lately Sikh philosophy network site is turning into a kala afghna mouthpiece. There

are some die hard anti Dasam Bani people who have been made mentors on that site. They slander bani of Dasam granth on one pretext or the other.

They also interpret SGGS ji in a totally different way. They write that there is no gurmantra and naam simran in sikhi. New meanings of Amrit vela are being given.Any effort to combat that is nipped in the bud.

Does anyone has experience on that site. Please share that here.

At first I thought SPN was a breath of fresh air in terms of a lot of the Sikh forums online.

However, like you say, I soon realised that many of the main posters are extremely quick to criticise, question, and attempt to scientifically analyse anything relating to the Bani of the Tenth Master, as well as other influential Sikh scriptures such as Bhai Gurdas Vaaran.

Although I'm not sure of them being Kala-Afghana 'mouthpieces' in any official sense, the fact that they criticise Dasam Pita's Bani more than the 'scholarly revelations' of Kala-Aghana, makes me very concerned.

Moreover, the initial post regarding the recent Finland changes to Ardas started off with hailing it as a Martin Lutheresque type act of reformation! :o

so what they were dancing! its not lie they are telling you to bloody dance with them is it!?

well apparently sikhs aren't allowed to dance?

(obviously anything lewd is another issue altogether)

A bit concerning that the video's posted by a user named EnochPowell2008!!

But nevertheless, it obviously shows what major problems the UK is having with containing these guys.

Cops being chased by jihadists - seriously unbelievable! :o

LOL! sorry I know, not very constructive, but it is kind of funny.

If the paneer was all mashed up into like 'bhurjee' it'd be pretty easy to mistake it for eggs or what not.

Let's just be thankful it was paneer :D

Man, there are accounts of Singhs giving amrit to musalmans from the late 1700s.

Yes that's true. I've also read that there were also some qusstionable practices which occurred whenever a Muslim wanted to become Sikh/Khalsa, i.e. serving prashad of wild boar meat, making the new convert wear a boar's tusk etc.

Obviously not in line with Gurmat, but understandable given the political climate of the time, e.g. threat of spies inflitrating etc.

Getting back onto the topic, it would be a shame for there to be discrimination in any of the Nihang Dals, but it's not surpising considering the scourge of the caste system permeates most things in the sub-continent, regardless of religion.

Just have to keep emphasising the Guru's message of equality so hopefully future generations will be so ingrained with it, it will come naturally.

Thats nothing more then beadbi of bani of guru granth sahib ... is guru granth sahib a lawyer or we have been taught just to use it ... this is the classic example of having a mind set and then proving it from guru granth sahib ... a sikh should follow and learn from guru granth sahib to have a mind set....

Absolutely spot on. Well said!

Sikhsangat admin should remove these MJs threads, yes he has passed away but he wasn't a sikh, he was an artist of geet which can only be classed as manmukhthai at best. So please get to grip's with what this board is for, i'm sure there are plenty of boards out there for you to pay your respect's to him if you wish too...

Oh yeah that's right, we should only be bothered if a Sikh has died :rolleyes:

I beg to differ about his music being classed as 'manmukhtai' - although some of it might be classed as so, ALOT of his music did have inspiring messages.

Also, I'm pretty sure he's done more humanitarian work than some of the critics present on this forum - but hey, he's not a Sikh, so it shouldn't matter.

However, I do agree that the MJ threads are probably not best suited here but would be best in the 'off topic' section.

How can he rest in peace in hell?

SIKHSANGAT IS A JOKE!

AwiQ sYl nIc Gir hoie ]

aathh sail neech ghar hoe ||

If wealth visits the home of the lowliest clown,

AwiQ dyiK invY ijsu doie ]

aathh dhaekh nivai jis dhoe ||

seeing that wealth, all pay their respects to him.

AwiQ hoie qw mugDu isAwnw ]

aathh hoe thaa mugadhh siaanaa ||

Even an 1diot is thought of as clever, if he is rich.

Bgiq ibhUnw jgu baurwnw ]

bhagath bihoonaa jag bouraanaa ||

Without devotional worship, the world is insane.

Stop being a hater mate.

How do u know where MJ is going in the after-life? Nobody knows.

Wherever he may or may not be, I still wish for him to go there with peace.

I'm not being a hater. It just so silly when us sikhs suck up to those people.

Gurbani makes it clear who will have peace in the afterlife.

mnmuiK suKu n pweIAY gurmuiK suKu suBwnu ]3]

manamukh sukh n paaeeai guramukh sukh subhaan ||3||

The self-willed manmukhs find no peace, while the Gurmukhs are wondrously joyful. ||3||

You are being ridiculously narrow-minded.

I suppose you are willing to dismiss the massive amount that MJ has done in the way of humanitarian efforts?

Yes Gurbani is of course clear, but if you don't know the man, you shouldn't judge and assume his actions will lead to those consequences.

How can he rest in peace in hell?

SIKHSANGAT IS A JOKE!

AwiQ sYl nIc Gir hoie ]

aathh sail neech ghar hoe ||

If wealth visits the home of the lowliest clown,

AwiQ dyiK invY ijsu doie ]

aathh dhaekh nivai jis dhoe ||

seeing that wealth, all pay their respects to him.

AwiQ hoie qw mugDu isAwnw ]

aathh hoe thaa mugadhh siaanaa ||

Even an 1diot is thought of as clever, if he is rich.

Bgiq ibhUnw jgu baurwnw ]

bhagath bihoonaa jag bouraanaa ||

Without devotional worship, the world is insane.

Stop being a hater mate.

How do u know where MJ is going in the after-life? Nobody knows.

Wherever he may or may not be, I still wish for him to go there with peace.

Despite the controversy, MJ will always be known for his great music - and this is how everyone should remember him.

Whatever else he may or may have not done, that's for God to judge.

Rest in Peace Michael Jackson, the 'King of Pop'.

Fateh!

From some of the comments on this thread, I get the impression that some of you would watch a Sikh get beaten, his dastaar abused, and his beliefs ridiculed unless you knew for certain that he: didn't drink, didn't smoke, had never trimmed his beard, never plucked a stray eyebrow hair, believed (or disbelieved - delete as appropriate) in ragmaala being bani, was a lacto-ovo-vegetarian, was Amritdhari (but only if he took amrit from AKJ/DDT/other - delete as appropriate), believed in kesh/keski being kakaar, and woke up every amritvela without fail. Furthermore, I feel that some of you would even feel smug and superior about displaying such cowardice.

If you don't believe that monay, trim Singhs, alcohol-drinking meat-eating Punjabis of Sikh ancestry, are not real Sikhs, show them the way by standing up and defending these people when necessary, even if you really feel that they are so inferior to you that merely eating food from their hands will pollute your divine presence.

I have monay Punjabi friends who would risk injury and even death to protect dastaar and daara of a Sikh they saw being attacked and bullied, because they have that much respect for Guru's gifts. The fact that they are not yet ready to take amrit themselves is a matter that is between them and God, but I would prefer them as friends than some of the Amritdhari Sikhs I have met, on this forum and in real life, who have become so conceited after receiving Guru's gift that they consider even their rank cowardice to be a virtue.

Regards,

K.

You absolutely hit the nail on the head with that post brother!

Gaus-this is not directed at you personally, as there may be more to what you intended to convey. However, your post unfortunately (perhaps inadvertently) does reflect a portion of attitude amongst us and I use it as a tool to make a point.

The attackers were wrong to pour beer on anyone. I agree that the victims, regardless of practice or association, deserve our protection. However, since when has drinking beer been an individual sikh practice as suggested?

The attackers are young idiots who can be fought against in various conventional ways. However our naivety and presumptuous disrespect for our Guruji's that is posted on a Sikh forum, with some support and hardly a notice otherwise, is far more insidious and dangerous for Sikhs than are idiots pouring beer on someone.

If we refer to someone holding a beer as a Singh; if we refer to this as an individual Sikh practice; we might as well tuck our tail between our legs and go home. Go ahead and fight… flailing at the wind confirms our egos existence.

However, if you want to fight face to face with the biggest insult and threat to our Guruji's lessons, the modern day supporting cast for the 17th century Mughals, the ones who mock the blood of Sikh martyrs, the ones who promote Sikhi as a caste birthright, have the humility to take a long hard look in the nearest mirror.

Some of the replies this thread has gotten has astounded me.

All those people writing comments such as 'oh he was wearing an indian top/flag, he deserved it' or 'oh he was drinking a beer, he deserved it' should seriously get their heads out of their backsides.

Firstly, leave it to God and Guru ji to judge the individual's Sikhi - that's not for us to do.

Secondly, like it our not, such people are also Sikhs. We should be helping other Sikhs out, not deriding them for their individual practices. Hey, maybe if you help them out, it could give them some encouragement to become better Sikhs?

Come on guys, with this kind of attitude, no wonder these Pakis think they can get the upper hand!

Wake up ppl.

buddasingh,

i think i perhaps did not read about anyone pouring beer on people - if this is true, it definately is a stupid and condemnable action.

also, when i meantion individual sikh practice, it didnt mean that drinking beer is a sikh practice - this would be absurd to say the least!

i was stating that we should not judge or look down on the practices of other individuals who are by religion, sikhs.

furthermore, i mean 'sikh' in the sense that such individuals may not be gurmukhs, but still believe in the the principles of Sikhi as being their 'saviour'.

we should help our brothers/sisters without judgement, just as Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji did not judge Sajjan Thug or Kauda Raksh.

There is a new book on the COMPLETE history of Hari Singh Nalwa. the greatest sikh general of the times of ranjit singh. this book has many untold and hidden information about hari singh. it was written in accordance with his descendant by Nidar Singh Nihang and Paramjit Singh.

Whoa! That's got to be one to look out for!

Any more info regarding that brother?

No so much involving Sikhs and Pakistanis, but on a wider scale, there is a definite presence of a more 'emboldened' Islam in certain areas of some cities where Muslims are the dominant community.

The main troublemakers here are usually the Lebanese Muslims - forming crime gangs, committing gang rapes etc. They are generally despised by the mainstream.

Other than that, you have your usual Islamic schools, mosques, halal shops etc popping up around the place with increasing frequency.

But I still think the UK will get the jazia before we do :lol:

Nanaksar and Sant Baba Nand Singh Jee

Located in Keleran Jagraon in Punjab, is the place where great rishis and munis lived during the golden age (Satyajug).It was a great tirth during the earlier ages of Satyajug, Dwaparjug and Tretehjug,where the seekers of truth would go for enlightment. It is believed that the jungles, that once surrounded Nanaksar was the very place where Bhagat Dhru had the vision of the supreme Lord.

When Kalyug began on 18 February 3102 BC the tirth slowly began to loss its importance, as the people of Kalyug became materialistic and lost interest in spiritual life. When the supreme Lord came as Purantavavtar Satguru Nanak Dev Ji Maharaj he visited this place and predicted that in coming times,he will take Avatar as Baba Nand Singh and will bring this great tirth into light, for the benefit of Mankind. Thus this place was brought into light by Brahm Giani , the Lord himself in the form of Dhan Baba Nand Singh.

If possible, can some one please expand on what I have bolded in the above statement.

I am not out to offend anyone and I do recognise that there are great souls on this earth (Brahm Gianis) like Sant Baba Nand Singh ji, that are the epitome of a Gursikh, and should be given respect to as such.

We need to invoke the spirit of Sardar Hari Singh Nalwa and the great Akali Poola Singh.

I have a book at home about the rise of the Wahabbi movement. In the chapters dealing with Pashtoons/Pathans, I find great pleasure when it is stated that they had complained about being 'oppressed by the cruel Sikhs'.

Our ancestors didn't take this bakwaas, neither should we.

Continental Europe is now reaping the rewards of their lax immigration policies and overtly ridiculous levels of political correctness.

The United Kingdom doesn't have far to go either. Read an article (perhaps it was posted on this forum, I can't recollect atm) about British soldiers returning from Iraq/Afghanistan being set upon by mobs of Islamic extremists! Sounds ridiculous that it was even allowed to happen!

Where are the voices of the so-called moderate Muslims? Do they even exist?

Atleast with other religions such as Christianity or Hinduism, the extremists are generally deriled by the mainstream adherents - but this NEVER happens with Islam?

Why? Perhaps because there is nothing to complain about for them, because this is the real Islam?

Awesome stuff.

Puts some of us younger blokes to shame :lol:

Replying to Islamification can only start once we Sikhs are ready to give a reply.

Not calling myself a warrior by any means, but the number of times I've heard so-called leaders telling the media that the Kirpan is a 'symbolic ceremonial dagger' really goes to show how far attitudes have changed in the last 300 years.

On top of that, the usual politics and bickering between ourselves is a MAJOR crippling factor.

Time for us to look back at our history, put aside the petty differences and gain a perspective on who and what we are.

Before you know it, UK Sikhs will be paying a jazia tax:

http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-c...-agency-szh--08

Maybe our esteemed leaders in the 'World Muslim Sikh Federation' would be so kind as to take up the issue with their Muslim brethern.