Cisco_Singh
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Posts posted by Cisco_Singh
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Naamdharis took great effort to learn classical music and raag vidiya they actually have knowledge of raag and it's accompanying instruments etc. Their performance of Kirtan is to be admired for keeping purataan true raag vidiya traditions.
They are far superior to main stream Sikhs in this regard , many jathas have no proper knowledge of correct raag or traditional Khalsa instruments...vajah aka European harmonium is not a traditional Kirtan instrument...
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My own view is that Ravidaas Gurdwaras should not be allowed to have saroops of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Maharaj at their Gurdwaras ,since they do not have full satkaar of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Maharaj. They only reason they have saroops is because they contain compilations of Ravidaas's baani.
Ravidaasias do not believe in several core Sikhi concepts such as miri piri , amrit, Khalsa 5 k's etc.
They have their own ardaas etc as well. Ravidaasia should make their own compilations of Ravidaasis baani and use that instead.
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Traditionally Ramgarhia is not a caste it was the name of a Khalsa Misl, who's most famous leader happened to be from a family of carpenters Jassa Singh Ramgarhia, although the Misl has also had leaders prior to Jassa Singh who were from other castes.
The Misl itself had members from all different backgrounds. "Those of the fort of Guru Raamdaas" is the translation of the word Ramgarhia. There was a Ramgarhia Bungah at Harmandar Sahib as The Misl was appointed by Dal Khalsa as one of the 3 misls tasked with defending Harmandar Sahib. There was also a Ramgarhia bungah at Takht Sri Hazur Sahib which amongst other historically valuable buildings was demolished recently at the 300 years celebrations instead of being restored and preserved.
These days the majority of people associated to the Ramgarhia community are those of the skilled trades carpenters/tharkaans, metal workers / lohars, etc etc.
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Involvement of the Indian congress party infiltrated into naamdhari circles and started these cultist stories.
Raam Singh himself was a highly respected Nihang Singh with a high avastha who did not claim to be a Guru. All of this spin doctoring happened afterwards with the interference of the Indian congress.
Notice how the naamdharis who were previously shatardhari human and social rights activists as well as freedom fighters suddenly became a very tame quiet group this was also congresses influence .
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There's probably several unseen spies and agents operating in key Sikh organisations, Gurdwara committees etc . Might go some way in explaining the lack of progress or ridiculous decision making we see from do called Sikh institutions, who are the people in these organisations who do they really represent ?
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The article linked below exposes the truth about Sunny Hundal..so it appears he has a history of misrepresenting the truth and misinterpretation ...
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2013/10/is-sunny-hundal-the-best-person-to-lecture-on-journalism/
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I wouldn't bother wasting time reading Sunny Hundals stuff. He's a failed journalist the only way he can get any attention is to jump on the back of topics like this this and try to rile up the aethists with incorrect facts and poor journalism. He's been sued before for reporting incorrect slander against an individual for which he had to pay out to settle the case .
People who have no knowledge of Sikhi and Gurbani should refrain from trying to comment on things they do have the knowledge or comprehension to address in a correct manner.
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2013/10/is-sunny-hundal-the-best-person-to-lecture-on-journalism/
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20 hours ago, Hammertime007 said:
Not sure If people not or if it been mentioned. The committee moved the wedding from Sunday (when the protest took place) to Saturday to confuse potential protesters as they anticipated protesters.
Is that information correct ? I heard there was another different interfaith marriage on the Saturday before the protest. This Gurdwara has been doing lots of these weddings, two nearly every weekend Saturday and Sunday for the last few months.
They have a closed access Facebook group where some pictures of the sham anand karaj ceremonies can be seen.
They are not the one ones either. Other Gurdwaras also carry out sham anand karaj ceremonies, like Hounslow Alice way, Guru Amardaas Gurdwara Leicester, Ravidaas Gurdwara Leicester.
The committees are sly they try to do these weddings in weekdays to avoid protests. They know full well they are going against Maryada.
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17 hours ago, DhadrianwaleZindabad said:
The girls side was from Luton , which is pretty far away from Leamington Spa. From prior experience of knowing families that have carried out interfaith sham anand karaj ceremonies, I would say that education is not always the answer.
They know perfectly well that they do not meet the criteria for Anand Karaj, so after being rejected by their local Gurdwaras they seem out the rogue corrupt Gurdwaras that book the sham weddings.
Atheist Punjabis think they can bend the rules to cover up their own lack of faith.
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19 hours ago, DhadrianwaleZindabad said:
What is the eventual long term goal of protesting at Anand Karaj's in western countries where 99% of the population are non-Sikhs? It is totally inevitable that 1% demographic minorities will intermarry.
Why are we not focussing on bigger issues that pose far bigger threats to the community?
Let's say, for example, every generation the protestors manage to block 20% of Anand Karaj's and successfully push the brides and grooms away from Sikhi ... how many generations will it be that the population of future Sikhs even willing to get an Anand Karaj will be left utterly negligible?
In the UK there might be 50,000 of marriageable age in 2016.
Block 20% from an Anand Karaj and you are left with 40,000
Next generation another 25% of the 40,000 left are blocked
... and so on increasing each following generation.
... until eventually the Sikh community in a Diaspora country is left demographically insignificant.
Surely, it would be better to try use someone's willing participation in an Anand Karaj as an acceptance that they are new Sikhs - as those who bow down before Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj are.
And to use this blessed occasion to integrate these new (Sikh) spouses within the fold of the Sikh Panth.
Obviously it is important the spouse rejects anti-Sikh concepts supported by Abrahamic religions such as slavery, pedophilia and violence against women as these are anti-Sikh concepts that no Sikh could tolerate being imposed on their own daughter.
There is no issue here to discuss, we have clear guidance from rehitnamas,rehit mayada and the 52 Hukums of Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji maharaj.
The very content and significance of the laavan themselves make it obvious that only 2 Sikhs on the path can possibly make such commitments.
As Sikhs we follow rehit and hukum. It's as simple as that .
Are you claiming to know better than maharaj that you want to change the conditions for Anand Karaj ?
So what if some atheist Punjabis are blocked. Sikhi is about quality not quantity . The required sacrifice is submission to maharaj offer your head to walk this path. We make no concessions for those who don't have the faith to walk this path.
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It's a challenge from the corrupt leamngton Warwick commitee. They're relying on protestors getting arrested and charged by the police. They believe protestors will soon stop protests as they know they will be arrested.
This besharam commitee came on Sikh channel a few months ago and said they encourage protestors not to protest because they may be arrested.
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Well it was only a matter of time, corrupt committees like leamington and Warwick Gurdwara , are just atheists pretending to be Sikhs, there greed for income is ridiculous. No regard for Sikhi principles
The commitee lied to the police, the videos all showcase peaceful protest with protestors inside meditating peacefully. no blades, swearing or aggressive behaviour from the protestors.
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11 hours ago, Jonny101 said:
Our girls before marriage think life is like a bollywood movie. They want to marry some guy that looks like a bollywood hero. BUT when they get married reality hits, and they realise it's no longer a bollywood fantasy.
I believe things are turning around now as you can see many Sikh youth are getting back into Sikhi. In future Guru Sahib will bless us with Gurmat Sojhi. But in the west at least, the generation of Sikh girls from the 80s till now has been the lost generations. That is when they all started demanding a "clean shaven jatt sikh boy" in matrimonial adds. And sadly in this case, demand increased supply. All our boys in the west began cutting their kess.
And it has to be said, it was mainly Jattis who started this anti Gurmat demand. Khatri and Ramgaria girls were and still are largely ok with turbaned boys.
Agreed, generally the khatris. Ramgarhias and bhatray are the communities that still have the highest rate of maintaining their kesh and dastaars/turbans.
As another poster noted maybe it us related to employment. All those 3 communities mentioned above are either business orientated communities, traders or skilled craftsmen. They can generate their own employment or they have indemand skill sets. This is how Ramgarhias ended up in East Africa the British realised they could utilise their skill sets in their other colonies, for construction , engineering etc.
Jatts being generally unskilled and uneducated in anything other than agriculture struggled for employment in the UK, they felt that had to cut their kesh in order to fit in and get jobs. A lot of them ended up doing manual labour intensive jobs like foundry work. Or became bus drivers.
But even in those communities khatri, Ramgarhia, Bhatray you have the issue of westernised Punjabi bimbos demanding clean shaven grooms. Even in India they use the term "cut surd" meaning clean shaven sardar.... contradiction at is best.
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There were Sikh candidates that stood for election in the Southall area, but the Gurdwara commitee clowns for some reason were telling everyone not to vote for the Sikh candidate and vote for Sharma instead. Ask yourself why ?? Who's payroll are these people on ? Are they planted into these positions ?
Other Sikhs also instead of supporting Sikh candidates launched smear campaigns against them. Typical of the community instead if unity and support when it's needed they do the opposite.
There are traitors in our midst , that must be identified and uprooted.
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I've definitely never heard of any Gurdwara anywhere in the uk or anywhere else in the world with a Indira Gandhi photo on the Diwan hall.. that's a ridiculous claim to make without any proof.
Now back on topic, this thread has nothing to with casteism there are several Gurdwaras in the uk , that are openly ignoring Sikhi principles and rehit Mayada , in the search for profits and income generation from sham anand karaj ceremonies and party Halls.
Why is Sikh Council UK and the other Sikh organisations that claim to represent Sikhs silent on this issue ?
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Lamington Warwick commitee aren't Ramgarhias, the group that went to meet modi in the uk weren't Ramgarhias either.
A lot of the Gurdwaras still carrying our sham anand karaj ceremonies are not Ramgarhia Gurdwaras either.
General Brar wasn't Ramgarhia either... Nor was KPS Gill...
That's before we even start to talk about Prakash Badal and family, Makkar and the majority of the rest of SGPC , not a single African or Ramgarhia in sight....
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News article below about the dodgy Lamington and Warwick Gurdwara Commitee, I'm pretty sure they attempted the party hall before as well an their commitee came on a Sikh channel programme and denied that were planning to build a party hall.
https://theboar.org/2016/09/outrage-leamington-gurdwara-party-venue-plans/
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So despite the very clear hukumnama from akal Takht sahib that Gurdwara owned properties including halls are not to be used for any purpose which is not Gurmat related. We have Gurdwaras that continue to host meat at alcohol parties.
The latest news is that there is planning permission submitted for a party hall which they are disguising as a conference , sports and community centre adjacent to Leamington and Warwick Gurdwara , the application apparently states that Gurdwara parking spaces will be used by this new venture. The hall is a venture by a former commitee member of the Gurdwara. This Gurdwara also still carries out sham interfaith anand karaj ceremonies.
Number 2 , Ramgarhia Gurdwara , Graham street , Birmingham previously used to host meat and alcohol parties in their hall next door to the Gurdwara which was called Jassa Singh Ramgarhia hall, following protests and confirmation of the hukumnama from Akal Takht which was presented to the committee they stopped allowing meat and alcohol at the hall since 2010.
However , the Gurdwara commitee is trying to reinstate meat and alcohol parties at the hall stating that they are not getting any bookings and are not making income from the hall. They have written to their members asking them to vote on reinstating alcohol and meat parties at the hall see attached letter.
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He wasn't stitched up, it wasn't a sting, he had visited the romanion male prostitutes before the paper exposure, the prostitutes recognised him even though he lied about his identity and approached the press.
The paper mad a decision that it's in the public interest that this should be known. Keith Vaz was chairman of the home affairs select committee, who amongst other things discuss drugs and prostitution. Clear conflict of interest.
Theresa May also said the public need to be able to have trust in mp's there reputations must be clean. This is clearly not the case with Vaz. A married man with children...
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He's only resigned as chairman of the home affairs select committee. He's still a MP. People of Leicester should vote this scum bag out at the earliest opportunity.
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Sikhs have no friends in the political arena this is because as a community we are not united we don't have enough political representation or educated Sikhs in influential positions, Councillors, MP's , business leaders etc.
We have multiple organisations claiming to represent Sikhs. None of which have unity amongst themselves and are internally corrupt themselves. Sikh Council Uk, Sikh federation uk, Federation of Sikh organisations etc etc.
The powers that be know this very well hence they don't take the Sikh voice seriously.
Labour yes under their watch we saw the grooming gang epidemic covered up Rotherham, Rochdale, Keighley. Sheffield. Leicester moghul darbar etc. But it was also Tom Watson of Labour that was the main MP that helped release the papers regarding the uk government involvement in the 1984 Harmandar Sahib attack.
The conservatives have a long history of colluding with the Indian government against the Sikh political movement , Indira Gandhi and Margaret Thatcher were close friends. A Nagar Kirtan in London was cancelled by the uk government in the 1980s at the request of the indian government... This was under the conservatives not Labour.
So if you want the Sikh voice to be heard get more Sikhs into influential positions. Without adequate political representation and a united front the powers that be will ignore you. One of Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaja 52 hukums is for Sikhs to be actively engage in politics and become politically aware, maharaj had the foresight to know that the future yudh is just ad much political as is it physical.
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If Muslims and hindus marry out of their religions they have enough respect for their faith and it's tenants to not try to carry out sham religious ceremonies in their places of worship or other hired venues. They just have registry marriages.
When's the last time you heard of a Muslim and non muslim having a nikkah ceremony without the non muslim converting first ? It doesn't happen.
Why do these hippy type Sikhs think they can adjust the rules of the faith to meet their own failings and inadequacies ?
Furthermore the corrupt Gurdwara committees ultimately are the ones that need to shoulder the blame. Instead of saying no to these families they take their money , such is the level of moral corruption and greed of these commitee members.
Instead of educating the bimbo families that want interfaith marriages they are happy to take their money.
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There is a few Gurdwaras that are still carrying out undercover sham anand karaj ceremonies, even though they they are in violation of rehat maryada. Warwick and Leamington Gurdwara is one prime example they also hire private security firms to try to prevent protestors stopping sham marriages and pass the bill onto the families booking the wedding.
Alice way Hounslow Gurdwara is an another Gurdwara that holds sham anand karaj ceremonies on weekdays to prevent people finding out. There are probably others as well. There is another Gurdwara in Leicester that I was told apparently carries out several sham anand karaj ceremonies weekly. I will try to find out the name of this Gurdwara .
The issue seems to have gone quiet since Sikh Council brokered a deal last year where UK Gurdwaras agreed that sham inter faith anand karaj ceremonies should not be be taking place. A 6 month period was agreed in which protestors agreed not to hold any further protests or disrupt ant sham anand karajs, this was to give Gurdwaras the time to implement Sikh Council guidelines on anand karaj ceremonies,and also to allow Gurdwaras to complete ceremonies that had already been booked and paid for. The agreement was that no further inter faith ceremonies would be booked.
The 6 month period I believe finished in April 2016 this year and thankfully many Uk Gurdwaras have got their act together and no longer allow sham interfaith anand karaj ceremonies. But others like the two mentioned above and no doubt others continue to conduct sham anand karaj ceremonies such is the greed for money and arrogance of their committees.
If you find out if any Gurdwara that has booked a sham anand karaj ceremony try to obtain proof I.e: a copy of a wedding card then contact the Gurdwara commitee directly and question them, if you don't have proof they may try to deny the booking was made. If you don't get a good response report them to Sikh youth Birmingham Facebook group. I stress you must have proof , don't go on rumour or guess work.
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Nothing new, this has been common knowledge the the last 20 years at least .
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How Did Naamdharis Split?
in WHAT'S HAPPENING?
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raag vidiya has been mostly lost and replaced with singing Kaachi bani to Bollywood style beats in some cases, with no sense of correct raag , using incorrect non purataan instruments..
In the same way shastar vidiya and the correct usage of weaponry and it's accompanying warfare tactics has been mostly lost and replaced by "gatka" circus performers , with sticks performing tricks like blind folded cocunut cutting.
In these days where so much knowledge via the internet , libraries, books etc is available purataan knowledge should be actively seeked and restored by Sikhs instead of blindly following pakkhandi versions of true purataan vidiya.
Yes, lack of knowledge. Education and misleading by SGPC and the British are the cause. But that's no excuse to keep blindly following the incorrect practises in this day and age. The naamdharis realised this and regained raag vidiya why can mainstream Sikhs follow suit ???