Deep Singh

Parasaraprasna is AWESOME!

I got it when i went to Amritsar last time...from the bookshop near Darbar Sahib.

It is about a Hindu Pandit named Sri Parasara who is asking/has asked Bhai Sahib questions about Khalsa Panth and Sikh ideology etc. And in this book Sirdar Kapur Singh Ji has given the answars in the form of articles, and named it 'Parasaraprasna' ie Parasara-Prasna (prasna is question(s) in Hindi). When i get time, i will digitalise it and send it to SREC (i believe) since they had lots of other Gurmat e-books.

I also located Saachi Saakhi (Punjabi) that is kind of a self-biography by Bhai Sahib, but haven't had the time to read it. It is also about the progress of Anandpur Sahib resolution and when he was in Indian parliament demanding rights for Sikhs and some history about those events.

He has also written about 'Guru Arjan Dev and His Sukhmani', 'Sikhism for modern man' and 'Some insights into Sikhism'. Also these are available from Singh Brothers Dealers, Amritsar.

He is also the architect behind modern Sikh policital philosophy and in the struggle for Khalistan.

Isnt't Delhi Sikh Gurdwara Management Comt. (DSGMC) the one that manages Delhi Gurdwaras?

Sangat

never heard of it

Thanks for the link bhaji! So the ebook is finally there..

my question is... shouldn't they have had this a looong time ago? like even the thai version came out before the hindi one...?

I know of atleast 2-3 other tranlsations of Gurbani in Hindi. One is by Manmohan Sehgal.

Patiala University has also publsihed 'Shabadarth Sri Guru Granth Sahib' in Hindi. Also Sindhi Sikhs (Chellaram Ji etc) have also translated Gurbani in Hindi, also Dasam Bani, in Sindhi etc.

So there have been translations before also. However Dr Jodh Singh is a scholar who has also translated Dasam Granth, Varan Bhai Gurdas, so his translation might be more accurate...

wow @ gym...you guys are lucky!

So do they have weights etc...so like real gyms and training studios at Gurdwara

well i don't know how much seva he has done...the sangat may share that knowledge.

however the news tells how much "seva" he has for the bibian.

Good reply Bijla Singh Ji. Some research needs to be done.

i am of the view that the story may or may not be true, my above post gives a 'possible' teaching that this story gives.

Bhai Sahib,

I hope you understand that my personal opinion is not that this story is true or false. I am not writing to share my personal opinion, but trying to see if others have Gian that they can share, and finally we can make up some solid opinion.

You mentioned Taksal started by Bhai Mani Singh/Baba Deep Singh Ji. Does Damdami Taksal accept the story about Guru Sahib telling Bhai Ji that he will attain Shaheedi?

You have said that the story is illogical, which may or may not be right.

However, let us look at it this way. We will suppose for the sake of the argument that the story is true to detemine if it illogical or not:

Taking into account the meaning of Shaheedi in Sikhism, when Guru Sahib had told Bhai Mani Singh Ji that he will attain Shaheedi....Bhai Mani Singh would have been delighted, it is a dream of any Gursikh that he/she may do outmost what is possible to do for the Panth. Guru Sahib telling about the Shaheedi is like a gift for a Sikh. 'Oh Waheguru! What noble cause you are going to use me for! Dhan Dhan! Waheguru Da Bhana Mann-ee!' (I am putting these words in the mouth of a Gursikh, to clear up my perspective.)

However, if we look at this as a punishment (as you do), it is Guru Sahib giving punishment for some kind of "crime" that the Sikh has commited, in this case rearrangement of Gurbani. Here we have a problem. Why would Guru Sahib punish such a great Gursikh? Guru Sahib has the authority to do it, and given the '

;story is true' ie a Sikh have rearranged Gurbani, Guru Sahib could do it. And given the story background; Guru Sahib want the Bani to be the way it is arranged, if there is not punishment, Sikhs in the future will arrange the Bani in any way they may want. And perhaps if there wasn't any punishment the CRIME of Teja Singh Bashuria wouldn't be considered a crime in the 1900s!

But equally: Guru Sahib is full of Kirpa, Daya, Guru Sahib is Antar-Jaami, Giani-Gian. What kind of punishment does Guru Sahib give?? So us it may sound like Guru Sahib have given the most strict punishment, just like tortur...just like prisoners as killed, but then you are forgetting the Gursikhi way of thinking.

What is the biggest punishment according to Gurmat? One can say: That you never come to SachKhand, but it is not totally correct, as in the end, everyone will get mukhti. So the strict punishment in Gurmat is that a person is wandering in millions of lives, without getting mukhti. Did Guru Sahib give that punishment?

On the other hand, which "punishment" did Guru Sahib give?? The punishment of Shaheedi! The punishment of Eternal Peace, of Eternal Freedom, of Mukti....is it a punishment or it is a gift!

Bhai Mani Singh Ji, accepting the Will of Maharaj, seeing the truth, sees what great punishment he has got. Sikhs of the 18th cent. were happy when they knew they were going to be Shaheed! And at the same time: Bhai Mani Singh Ji is fully aware that any Gursikh would from this day have respect for Gurbani. And never try to make any own versions etc. Because Maharaj has shown what "punishment" there will be...Guru Sahib have shown that Gurbani is to be the way it was given by them.

For further thinking:

From the above "picture", i hope you see if it is a punishment or a gift. I still hold my view: this story may or may not be true. The only concern is: It is easy to say what is logical or illogical, but is it the Gurmat way of thinking? Are

there spiritual meanings with such stories that don't see with the eye of reason and logic?

This story may just be it, a story, but for me, even if it may not be truth, it still holds some meaning. Some advice that the writer is trying to give. Is the writer "belittling" Bhai Mani Singh? At one point, the author shows the way Sikhs should respect Gurbani, there is no other way, but the Raaga-arrangement. On the second thought, he tell, look even great Sikhs such as Bhai Mani Singh who scribed so much Gurbani knew about this. And they also, in the end, hold this view that Gurbani is the way it is designed by Guru Sahib. And in the midst of the story, the writer adds the great Shaheedi of Bhai Mani Singh, how Guru Sahib gifted the Shaheedi to their beloved Gursikhs.

Jazz Bro...and are Sikhs united?

(i have never counted how many jatheh/sampardava/dereh there are...)

whether it is BS or not is a different matter. My point is: it is a famous story, and people in Sikh circles believe in it, either (1.) as a means of showing the 'Completeness' of Gurbani, the way Guru Sahib have constructed it and that there should be 1430 Panneh, in the similar manner in Raags as it was done in Damdami Bir. Or (2.) because historic records hold this view, such as Chibber's word.

My opinion: if Guru Sahib had told a Gursikh such as Bhai Mani Singh Ji that he has to give Shaheedi, he would have accepted it as once and accepted the will. (as the story tells that he did.)

Yeh i have located the book...read some pages here and there..looks good. will read it when i have time.

By the way: this event of Bhai Mani Sahib Ji Shaheed and the rearrangement of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji...and Guru Gobind Singh Ji tellinn him that as you have done this, you will have to pay for this with your own Shaheedi...or something on these lines...

this is very common story...and i believe lots of people in Sikh circles accept it.

Some updates:

Des Pardes had an article this week about Baba Mann, where someone on the behalf of 'Sikh Sangat of New York' said that they felt hurt after the news was published in Canadian/British newspapers. They also held somekind of 'pro-Baba' conference there perhaps in Baba Makhan Shah Gurdwara or Sikh circle (i will read it once again)

After that they mentioned a long list of people who support them, and are againt the news agencies...

also some Giani/Granthi from Singh Sabha Gurdwara Southall wrote an article on the same page defending Baba Mann.

They just go on saying who many people he has 'saved', but don't answar the questions put forward in the online news.

WHAT A GREAT IDEA!!

I would love to meet the Sangat!

It would be gr8 with UK...but what if we go to some kind of trip or camp....just for Sikhsangat.com members. I love mountaining/tracking....anyone wants to go to Gurdwara Hemkunt Sahib?? :lol: it would be SO fun...i really mean it...and we will learn so much also...Waheguru...i really hope something like this happens.

What do the ADMINS think...

(we can test our survival skills...lol)

On Shaheed Baba Deep Singh Ji Mahan starting Damdami Taksal..

source: Encyclopedia of Sikhism

DIP SINGH SHAHID. BABA (16821757). founder of the Shahid misl or principality as well as of the Damdami Taksal or Damdama school of Sikh learning, was born in 1682, the son of Bhai Bhagata and Mai Jiuni. a Sikh couple living in Pahuvind, a village 40 km southwest of Amritsar. He received the vows of the Khalsa at Anandpur where he stayed for some time to study the sacred texts under Bhai Mani Singh. He rejoined Guru Gobind Singh at Talvandi Sabo in 1706 and, after the latter`s departure for the South, stayed on there to look after the sacred shrine, Damdama Sahib. He, at the head of a small group of warriors, joined Banda Singh Bahadur in his campaign against the Mughal authority, but left him in 1714 when the Tatt Khalsa rose against him (Banda Singh). Retiring to Damdama Sahib at Talvandi Sabo with his band of warriors, he resumed his study and teaching of the Scripture and training in martial skills. In 1726, he had four copies of the Guru Granth Sahib made from the recension prepared earlier by Bhai Mani Singh under the supervision of Guru Gobind Singh during their stay at Damdama Sahib. In 1732, he went to the rescue of Sardar Ala Singh who had been besieged in Barnala by Manjh and Bhatti Rajputs in collaboration with the faujdar ofJalandhar and the nawab of Malerkotla. In 1733, when the Mughal governor of Lahore sought peace with the Sikhs offering them a nawabship and a.jagir, Dip Singh a

nd his jatha or fighting band joined Nawab Kapur Singh at Amritsar to form ajoint Sikh force, the Dal Khalsa, which was soon divided for administrative convenience into Buddha Dal and Taruna Dal, the latter being further split into fivejathas. Dip Singh, now reverently called Baba, was given the command of one of these jathas which in 1748 were redesignated misls. It came to be known as Shahid misi after its founder met with the death of a martyr (shahid, in Punjabi). The misls soon established their authority over different regions under rakhi system which meant, like chauth of the Marathas, collection of a portion of the revenue of the region for guaranteeing peace, protection and security. Shahid misi had its sphere of influence south of the River Sutlej and Dip Singh`s headquarters remained at Talvandi Sabo. The tower in which he lived still stands next to the Takht Sri Damdama Sahib and is known as Burj Baba Dip Singh Shahid.

During his fourth invasion of India in the winter of 175657, Ahmad Shah Durrani annexed the Punjab to the Afghan dominions and appointed his son, Taimur, viceroy at Lahore, with the veteran general, Jahan Khan, as his deputy. Jahan Khan invested Amritsar in May 1757, razed the Sikh fortress of Ram Rauni and filled up the sacred pool. As the news of this desecration reached Dip Singh, he set out with hisJ`atha towards the Holy City. Many Sikhs joined him on the way so that when he arrived at Tarn Taran he had at his command a force of 5,000 men. Jahan Khan`s troops lay in wait for them near Gohlvar village, 8 km ahead. They barred their way and a fierce action took place. Dip Singh suffered grave injury near Ramsar, yet such was the firmness of his resolve to reach the holy precincts that he carried on the battle until he fell dead in the close vicinity of the Harimandar. This was on 11 November 1757. A legend grew that it was Baba Dip Singh`s headless body holding his severed head on his left hand and wielding his khanda, doubleedged sword, with his right hand that had fought on

until he had redeemed his pledge to liberate the holy shrine. Two shrines now commemorate the martyr, one on the circumambulatory terrace of the sarovar surrouding the Golden Temple where he finally fell and the other, Shahidganj Baba Dip Singh Shahid, near Gurdwara Ramsar, where his body was cremated.

Thanks for the advice veerji.

I will have respect for translations. But how should i -store- them...i mean Palki is used forGuru Sahib. Should i keep the translations in my room or a separete room, or should they be in a drawer/shelves...on the high level or how.

Some questions from me:

I have been wondering for a while now.....

how did Rehatvaan Sikhs in the old days bath? Okey, with cold water (which is possible in Punjab) and with Kacherras on (which is also positive)

But did they have bathrooms etc. I really doubt they had all the facilities the way we have, changing water temperature and laying the tub, this and that....

Did they bath outside? I mean in villages there are/used to be something called 'bambian' (it is water stored outside in the farms?), and from what i gathered of village life in Punjab people either went to local bambi or talab (pools) or sarovars attached to local Gurdwaras (or other such sites..)

I doubt there was a drainage/water system the way we (or people in Punjab) have now. So if anyone has got some thoughts on this...please share.

it is kind of 'sociological' aspect of old Punjabi-Sikh life.

And some questions:

1. Could it be that the cold water Rehat is stressed because using hot water is seen as luxury, ie not go by the simple way, but boiling the water or using extra resources? And not to mention, time...as perhaps it was thought that we should bath quickly and start with Nitneem at once, and no time for luxury/boiling etc.

Or is this commandment based upon more practical; 'awakning' reasons, the way it is interprated now; that cold water wakes us so we are able to do Nitneem with more concentration.

2. Could it be that (give the thought that Old Punjabis used to bath outside) the Rehat to bath with a Kacherra is stressed, as there is sharam (shame) bathing outside naked. And if someone show a person etc..it could lead to distra

ctions on the path that Gursikh is following, ie on his way to Nitneem. If this is so - is the commandment similar for bathing inside, given that there is no one who can see, or are we hiding from outselves? (perhaps kaam etc...) Some people would say that as it is kakaar it is to be there all the time. But no...when you are, you take off the dastar/open the kesh...let loose the kirpan (or it gets rusty/wet). So that can't be the reason....also it is written 'you shouldn't bath naked' (and not 'you shouldn't bath with kakaars')

I am not attacking anything here, just setting the whole picture into the context, with regards to the social reality of eighteenthcentury Punjab.

WOW!

Such Beautiful Dastaran....

just look great...so does your dastar.

Can anyone help me a bit...

my problem with the dastar is that i get the site with the larrs correct, for me it is the left side...but the last larr from right site that we tuk into peak...i don't do that so good...also i usually cover the whole right site with it and it doesn't look like proper dastar. more round...and not so peaked.

Waheguru ji ka Khalsa Waheguru ji ki Fateh!

I have been thinking of this for some time now. And time for my next visit to Punjab is coming (it is not this winter, but not till next summer...so i have to start planning now).

I know that Sri Guru Granth Sahih Saroops are too be seated with outmost respect, and dedication only as they are seated at the Gurdwaras.

However, i am not so karmawala that Guru Sahib will give me the Darshan at my home. But i have been thinking of getting 'Sanchis' or translations (steeks) of Gurbani in Punjabi langauge.

Also they will be kept for study purpose only. I won't be doing Sehaj Path (if we count the strict definition). I am happy if i do path of the Bani that is given in Nitneem Gutkas, and often this <banned word filter activated> (me) has to work hard for that....as you may have understood - i am not so strong in my rehit. So, before taking any step, i want to be sure, i don't disrespect etc.

So i was wondering how we keep the Steeks/Teekas/Pothis with translations. Is it okey to keep them in a clean cupboard at the top level? Also, similar for Dasam Granth Steeks? Also when i study them, in what way should that be done...ie special table or anything...take a bath/wash etc...(much of it is simple logic, but i just want to be sure).

Please forgive me for any mistake.

Thanks for the post Singh47 and Ms514 Jio.

I have a question: the original Taksal established by Guru Gobind Singh Ji, was it called 'Damdama Sahib Taksal'? there is actually a story about The Khalsa Army having a damm (rest), so at Damdama Sahib where the Taksal was created. The Damdami Taksal has perhaps taken its name from this....and if i am right, for them it is the same lineage that has continued. (But that is, as you have shown, not so sure.)

Singh47 Jio, the point that you made about 'Giani Samparda' is correct. It is supported by Encyclopaedia of Sikhism. However, i was of the view that Damdami Taksal (the present) is seen as a part of Giani Samparda or Giani Parnali ('way of thinking' or philosophic path/manner).

http://forums.waheguroo.com/index.ppa?act=...=ST&f=23&t=4324 [see my second post on the first page]

MS415 Jio...very thoughtful post. No doubt, lineage can be of some importance, but it is not the sole thing. Parnalis or Lehars come and go with time; from time to time we have had great theologs and teekakars. What we call the Singh Sabha movement; that gave us the best interpretation of Gurbani, does not claim any lineage to Guru Sahiban.

And now Kalaafghana's group is called 'Singh Sabha International'.

Philosophic understanding or social movements come and go...there is no use in "worshiping" the lineage methodology ('samparda'). What is important for us is: that the Vaiakhya is based upon Gurbani itself, and not mythology imported from non-Sikh sources.

Knowledge is not bas

ed upon lineage, not even spiritual lineage. Every human has inner knowledge, and only by devotion it can be explored.

The 4-fold Sanatan Samparda division carried out by 'UK Nihang' sites is wrong! How can they forget Giani Samparda, which has lit. meant the most for Sikhism, and is also a part of their Sanatani thought? What about Nanaksar that has its own lineage, where do they fit in this four-fold division? There are numerous Deras which have their own spiritual heads and Sants, how can they be excluded?

There are atleast 10-20 Taksals in and around Punjab, Damdami Taksal is the most famous, others are linked to Nirmalas, or fall into a sone between Gianis, Nirmalas, and Sevapanthis. Such divisions give wrong annotations. None of the Sampardas can operate on their own, and none have...all have influenced eachother. And neither could stand against the Tatt Khalsa :lol:

Hanji, he was the first Jathedar of Shaheedan Wali Misal.

just like to add: And in that process of 'modernization', only the Shaheedan Wali Misal remained true to the Nihang lifestyle...ie Puratan Khalsa style.

am i right?

Yeh, Mr Singh has got *the fastest* connection in Scandinavia (for private users), and it doesn't cost much either (about 30-40 $/mnth)...

that same company started installing BROADBAND at my place (and when i say BB, i mean really BB...not some <1mb/sec like i have) ...but some thing came up and they stopped....SO i was planning to move to Mr. Singh's area cause of that...

koi nah veera, if this continues, i will be there in 5-6 years, just wait! :lol: after all...fast connection is a part of my life.

Why Punjabis are Bad Terrorists

Author: hahah

Date:  09-28-04 13:43

Although not quite Sikh related, it does explain why the post 1984 movement flopped so badly (honest! it really does!):

WHY PUNJABIS CAN'T BE TERRORISTS

1. We are always late, we would have missed all 4 flights.

2. Pretty girls on the plane would distract us.

3. We would talk loudly and bring attention to ourselves.

4. With food and drinks on the plane, we would forget why we're there.

5. We talk with our hands, therefore we would have to put our weapons

down.

6. We would ALL want to fly the plane.

7. We would argue and start a fight in the plane.

8. We can't keep a secret, we would have told everyone a week before

doing it.

9. We would have put our country's flag on the windshield.

10. We would all have fallen over each other to be in the photograph being taken by one of the hostages.

http://www.tapoban.org/phorum/read.ppa?f=1...i=18771&t=18771

Haha! that makes sense...i thought it was funny.