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Deep Singh

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  1. Bhai Gurdaas Ji

    in WHAT'S HAPPENING?

    Posted

    If you can borrow/buy books, then ask for the translation by Dr. Jodh Singh in two volumes. The incomplete online translations are extracted from there.

    Hope you find it ji. However, if you are well-versed in Punjabi, you should also try Bhai Vir Singh Ji's commentary or Giani Narain Singh ji's... ^_^

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  2. Fremont Election Saga...

    in WHAT'S HAPPENING?

    Posted

    Khalsa ji i'm not taking sides, but... RSS and indian govt agents have infiltrated our gurdwaras and taken up high positions such as President, and others and they are ruining us, removing pics of Singh Shaheeds, Removing Pics Of Sant Baba Jarnail Singh Ji Khalsa "Bhindranwale" from calendars, walls, everywhere, stopping PANTHIC confrences, and other "Khalistan" Programs, please pay attention and see into this,

    What's the use of having Shaheed's pictures all over the Gurdwaras?

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  6. Need of Gurmukhi Script ???

    in WHAT'S HAPPENING?

    Posted

    Here are a reason that i think you might understand:

    Compared to other scripts used at the times, Guru Sahib used Gurmukhi script (a form of some Old Punjabi script, most probably Ardanagari) because all the other scripts couldn't give the correct pronunciation. (perhaps devanagari could, but it has 52 akhars and lots of these letters are not needed for Punjabi language...)

    Every language should (ideally) have it's own script which is suited to the ponetic setup (speech and pronunciation) of that language. Perso-Arabic scripts creates lots of problems for Indian languages, even Urdu readers know this, but they blindly use it as it connects them to their religion. And North-Indian scripts were not complete, as they lacked either laga-matra ("vowel signs") or they didn't have letters for some Punjabi sounds. And Devanagari was good, but it contains lots of more letters than is needed to write/read correct Punjabi, hence more than one letter for the same sound could also create problem. Thus Guru Sahib had to modify existing scripts to form a complete script that could be used for both Gurbani (and Punjabi language).

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  9. Need of Gurmukhi Script ???

    in WHAT'S HAPPENING?

    Posted

    I have written a sort of 'article' at PCRC forum:

    1. Any comparative analysis of Gurmukhi, Lande (Mahajani), Takri, Sharda and Devanagri will show that these scripts are related to each other. They have all been derived from Brahmi. Also, we will notice that there is a very strong connection between the Gurmukhi and Takri letters (stronger than with Lande). The problem however is that Takri does not have a standard version, there are atleast 5 styles used in various district of Himachal: Chamba, Mandi, etc.

    2. It is incorrect to say that Gurmukhi is solely derived from Lande characters. There are two points to be noted:

    a. Lande does not have laga-matra, and only the main letters. It was used for business purposes, and not meant for writing literature. Lande means 'un-tailed', and is not a script for proper literary purposes.

    b. There are some characters found in Gurmukhi that are not there in Landha.

    3. Bhai Kahn Singh Nabha, Sikhism's greatest encyclopedist, says that Gurmukhi characters existed before Guru Nanak Ji's time (and thus it is incorrect to say that Gurus created them). He also says that Gurmukhi is formed from a combination of Sharda and Takri (from Mahan Kosh). This is considerable evidence to state this, however it is not accepted by a. Duni Chander, a Punjabi linguist who says that scripts are not created, but evolve over time, and thus Gurmukhi must have been evolved from one single script and not both Takri and Sharda. Later he

    agrees with GB Singh's views (p. 80-81, Punjabi Bhasha Da Vikas 1959) and b. Dr. Raghuvir who says that Gurmukhi characters look like a 'Prachin lipi' and not these two (cited in PS Padam p. 94).

    4. There are two major 'studies' of Gurmukhi; one is historic (Piara Singh Padam and co) and the other is archeological (GB Singh).

    A. Piara Singh quotes a Muslim writer, Al-Beruni, who wrote Kitab Al-Hind (1030 AD) where he lists 11 scripts used in Punjab and its neighbouring areas (North India). One of these is Ardhanagari, which he lists as a beautiful mixture of Gangetic Nagari script and Kashmiri Sharda script, which was 'used in Punjab and Sindh' under the rule of Bhatti Rajputs who formed the Kingdom of Bhatinda (and whole of Malwa area). Thus, Bhat Akri or Ardhanagari was the official script and was probably used in Punjab from 11th century onwards. Padam says that as we don't have the varan-mala (chain of letters) of Ardhanagri, we can't say that it is 'old Gurmukhi', however all historic evidence points towards this. It is probably the 'Prachin Lipi' that became Gurmukhi under Sikh Gurus. However, we do have another lipi; Sidh Matrika or Sidhan Lipi, that is a variant of Ardhanagri and which was used by Sidhas to write their Granths etc. And this is like Gurmukhi.

    B. GB Singh in his Gurmukhi Da Janam Te Vikas (1972) also provides specimens that have Gurmukhi like characters from the era of Guru Nanak Ji from Hathur or Athur in Ludhiana district.

    C. Similar, 'Sirdar Attar Singh, the Chief of Bahadur [was of the view that there existed]an inscription dates 50 years before the advent of Guru Nanak, written in character which are evidently the same as present Gurmukhi [...]'. G.W. Leitner, History of Indigenous Education in the Punjab, 1883.p.29

    5. There are three views about the name Gurmukhi:

    a. That it means 'from the mouth of Gurus', and since a script does not come from the mouth, but from the hands, Gurmukhi w

    ord was used for 'the Guru's Bani or writings'. And in due course of time, it came to be used for the script itself. (Hindi Vishav Kosh, part 3, p. 475-476)

    b. That Gurmukhi word is the related form of 'Gurmukh', that is a term used for devoted Sikhs who used to write this script and do missionary work. (Piara Singh Padam p.55, and mostly all Punjabi linguists) Also writings of Baba Sri Chand use Gurmukhi, and Guru Nanak's 'Patti' Bani in Sri Guru Granth Sahib lists most of the Gurmukhi akhars, thus it cannot have been 'created by Guru Angad Dev Ji'. It existed even before Guru Nanak.

    c. That Gurmukhi word is actually from Nath-Yogi terms (from 10th century onwards). And it may be so that the word came to be used for their script, which they used to write their Bani. (verses from Gorakh Nath containing 'Gurmukh' term cited in Padam p. 56) Infact, lots of 'Sikh mystic terms' such as guru-cela, surat-shabad, nag-bind, dasam-duar, sunn-samadi, dhian-bhau, anhatt-shabad etc are given to 'Gurbani literature' from the Nath yogis. (see Dharam Singh, HS Bohgal's - Punjabi Sahit Da Itihaas 1700 is. tak, GNDU, p. 24)

    6. Thus:

    a. No major scholars have said that Gurmukhi is derived from Lande, however Ardhanagri (GB Singh), Sidd matrika (Pritam Singh), Sharda (Kahn Singh, Diriginder) and Takri are often used. Lande are an incomplete script-tradition, and only Takri and Sharda can be regarded as proper scripts of Punjab that co-existed with the 'old script' that became Gurmukhi.

    b. E.P. Newton says that: atleast 21 Gurmukhi characters are found in ancient manuscripts: 6 from 10th century, 12 from 3rd century BC, 3 from 5th century BC.

    c. From the 'evidence' found in books written by Punjabi linguists, we should consider that the script we call 'Gurmukhi' existed in Punjab either by the name Bhat Akri, Sidd Matrika or Ardhanagari, and is in final words a Punjabi script, not something created by Sikh Gurus. <

    br>d. We should also note the view of Harkirat Singh (online article) that: even though the Gurmukhi letters existed before, but it was Gurus who modified them and formed 'the SCRIPT', ie giving all the letters proper sounds and orthographical rules.

    e. Some ask the reason why Guru adopted this script: The Goindval pohtis, that are one of the oldest manuscripts containing Bani are in Gurmukhi script. However, the Bhagat Bani section is partly in Lande script. It is said that when Guru Angad Dev Ji (?) found out that Bani written in Lande could have many pronunciations, they adopted the Gurmukhi script in order to make Gurbani more 'firm', as meanings can change if it is pronounced incorrectly. That is the most logical reason i have read so far.

    That is some of the points i have be able to write down. If anyone has any questions, please reply.

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  14. Need of Gurmukhi Script ???

    in WHAT'S HAPPENING?

    Posted

    This is one of the biggest misconception. Guru Nanak Dev Ji invented Gurmukhi Lipi. Guru Ji wrote "Ik Oankar" when He went to school the first time which was the beginning of the Gurmukhi Lipi.

    Balait Da Sher Bhaji is right.

    The eka in Ik Oankar exited before Guru Sahib, and so did the Akhar Oraa.

    Guru Sahib didn't invent Gurmukhi. They codified an existing Lipi. Some call this Lipi by the name Ardhanagri, which was a combination of Kashmiri script Sharda and Hindustani script Devanagri.

    They "created" the script in the sense that they gave rules for its proper use, pronunciation, and orthography, however the akhars existed before. They modified some structures to make it better.

    Some draw the origin of Gurmukhi to Landa script, but i don't think that is correct.

    Why it is called Gurmukhi? Here, it doesn't mean 'from the Guru's mouth'. It is the related form of the word Gurmukh. Just like Sikhi is of Sikh. Gurmukhs were true Sikhs who wrote and spread the Word of Guru Sahiban. As they used the Ardhanagri script codified by Gurus, the script came to known as Gurmukhi.

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  18. our gurudwara sahib in moscow1

    in WHAT'S HAPPENING?

    Posted

    Ramnik Bhaji,

    THAT IS GREAT!

    I know some Russian/East-European people, and they are alright. Actually, as you pointed out, lots of Russians are interested in Indian religions and some want to learn about Vedas and all. A friend told me that there was a girl who learned Punjabi and went into a Punjabi shop here and they were all surprised. :wub:

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  23. shaheed akali nihang baba deep singh ji di khanda

    in POLITICS | LIFESTYLE

    Posted

    Fateh Jio!

    Mahan Kosh says that a Khargg should be of 5 fingers bredth and 50 fingers length. A khargg is most likely another name for a Khanda. I can't be 100% sure if the conventional terms with martial arts have changed or something, that you can check with those Shashtar-dhari Singhs/Singhees who have more knowledge.

    I don't know if Baba Deep Singh ji Shaheed used this size, most likely something bigger (depending upon the weight), but this is the standard size. I will try to see if i can find something else and let you know. Also his Khandeh's weight was 18 ser...ie 32 lbs, that is about 14,5 kg.

    Added later: ok, now i am sure that Khargg = Khanda. another way of writing it is Khadag. It is the same size and form. So it should be that size, if Baba Deep Singh ji used standard Khanda.

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